Somewhere in between indifference, confusion, and sadness

[lostlove76]

“I have learned that self-mastery and the consistent care of one’s mind, body and soul are essential to finding one’s highest self and living the life of one’s dreams. How can you care for others if you cannot even care for yourself? How can you do good if you don’t even feel good? I can’t love you if I cannot love myself.” ~ Robin S. Sharma

 

What a great quote. I wanted to share a thought before I read further. I've never understood what people mean when they say you can't love someone if you don't love yourself. That's never made any sense to me, because I know that I've loved another when I apparently didn't love myself. This quote might have cleared up my confusion, though, or at least given me a new way of looking at it. Perhaps love in this sense is being used as a verb rather than a feeling. You can't act completely lovingly towards another if you don't love yourself. We can't give what we don't have. So if we don't take care of ourselves mind, body, and soul like the quote says, then we don't have the inner peace or energy to treat someone lovingly without throwing in all our defense mechanisms and past hurts and angers and frustrations. We may feel the love towards them, but our own messiness gets in the way of showing it in a healthy way. If that makes sense.

 

You could view this from both sides, ksol. You know you love him, but you didn't always act lovingly... and the same could be said for him, especially at the end. It didn't mean he doesn't love you, or that he hates you. It was just his own issues and messiness reacting to your issues and messiness, and unkind words were exchanged. The love was still there.

[lostlove76]

I agree with bolt. Great post I feel a definite sense of strength and progress in your words. You will be okay, ksol. You have everything you need to be just fine, as evidenced by what you've written. I know that this strength comes and goes a bit, and you may be feeling less hopeful again in the morning, but that is completely okay. Just the fact that you're having glimpses of a more positive future shows that you have it within you.

 

just a couple days before the breakup, I sought for help. I googled a therapist that specialized in repairing relationship trust using the Gottman Method. The day before my appointment we break up, so what I thought was going to be a venture for our relationship, turned into a venture for myself, for my self discovery. Best thing I ever did for myself to date. Myself, the person I should have focused on throughout this entire ordeal...starting from the very. first. breakup.

Maybe this is the perfect example of things happening exactly as they should and when they should. Your start with the new therapist came at the exact right time - when you needed the support from the breakup, and when you were clear to work completely on yourself instead of focusing on you and him as a couple.

 

As foolish as it sounds, from the very beginning, I did not stop to think that I didn't love myself or that I didn't have self respect and self worth. I was constantly scrambling for answers to why our relationship was not working and at times I scratched the surface to what the real issue was, but I didn't connect the dots.

They say that we only meet ourselves in a relationship, or something like that. A relationship is a mirror to ourselves. So the way you saw yourself being treated by him was a reflection of your own lack of self-worth and self-respect. (I'm trying to learn as you're learning, as well, and restating things helps me process and absorb. Thank you so much for sharing everything you're learning in therapy, and all of your own thoughts as you go through this process. I like the way you think )

 

I may not have it all figured out, but I feel so sure, deep down inside, that I am on the right path.

I really agree that you are, ksol. Like I said above, even if you volley back and forth between strength and hopelessness, the strength is very obviously there. You are far ahead of many others in your position, and far ahead of where I was when I was just a month from the breakup (and honestly, far ahead of where I am now, since I continue to focus so much on him instead of myself and my future). I don't at all mind saying that, because it just is what it is. You should feel proud that you are continuing to stretch and grow, especially since you're doing so while going through such immense heartache. Seriously, be proud of yourself, and allow this to increase your sense of self-worth and self-respect. Not everyone has the level of insight that you have. With the exception of the others on this thread, I'd say that most people don't even come close to having it.

 

I think I truly deserved someone who had the patience and understanding to allow me to figure these things out. He may have been able to push me in a different way or maybe these breakups were absolutely necessary. Maybe I wouldn't have learned any other way.

I agree with both. You DO deserve someone who was more patient and understanding. We all have issues and difficulties, and we all need someone who is there for us unconditionally as we work through it. At the same time, you're right in that maybe you wouldn't have learned any other way. If he had unending patience, you would have had no reason or motivation to change or look inward. You wouldn't have sought therapy. You wouldn't have come here to ena. You wouldn't have done all of this soul-searching. Pain is what motivates us to seek answers and solutions.

 

 

Now I absolutely refuse to twist myself into a pretzel to please a man

I hope to gosh that I can say the same for the remainder of my life!! I feel it now; I just hope it sticks the next time I meet someone.

[Ksol9]

Hi lostlove, thank you for writing. You're probably fast asleep, but I wanted to let you know that I read your posts and will reply to them later on when I'm up and on my laptop. I can't go back to sleep again. I'm just browsing around the internet on my phone.

 

There is something you said in one of your posts, and I'll elaborate further later on, but wanted to note this now. You were commenting about the saying "you can't love someone else until you love yourself". I hear this saying all the time. I feel the same exact way, I never really understood what that meant. I mean i didn't understand it like I understand it now. It's funny how with age and experience you see things differently and things that didn't have much of a meaning then have new and in depth meaning now. That saying is one of them.

 

I found it very interesting when you said that it goes both ways. I never thought of it that way at all. I didn't stop to think that the love was there it was just my messiness mixed with his messiness. Thank you for pointing that out because, again, I only thought of it for my side.

 

People are only capable of giving so much depending on their own circumstances. If he hasn't healed or dealt with the things that have effected him in the past, he can't possibly give the kind of love he doesn't have.

 

You also spoke about anger and the harsh words being exchanged. That is something I am still holding onto. I still have this underlying anger for him for saying some of those things. I don't know how to let it go because it's just there. It's not strong anger, but it's still there. I know anger subsides with time, but I remember often how he said things like...I don't know how we lasted this long. I know I said much worse and he may be holding onto some of the things I said, but that just hurt me I guess. Anger is usually just a response to pain.

 

No matter what realizations I come to, I still love him and that's why I wanted to make a quick mention of what you said. I go to sleep alone and wake up alone...and being alone is not the problem. I just feel empty without him.

[Ksol9]

Hey lostlvoe-

Stormy Sunday here in Florida. I lovee the rain. I love the sound of the rain. I'm just cuddled up in bed with my laptop. Hope you are getting some good rest. You're probably still sleeping at the moment.

 

Yoga and meditation sound like great ideas for you, and will hopefully help calm your mind and relax your body. I feel like I'm too impatient for most of that stuff, too unable to really sit down and focus on it, but I know it can do wonders for some people. Thank you for the link for the video. I'll try it one night when I'm feeling relaxed enough to focus but unable to fall asleep. Starting at home with videos sounds like a great plan, because you won't have the pressure of attending class at a certain time. You can do it on your own, whenever you need or want to.

 

I've always been a skeptic when it came to things like this. I don't think I ever really thought about the reasons why people choose to take up meditation and yoga. Well, now I know. I really see the benefits of it now, but like you said, you have to be in a state of mind where you can focus. If you're unable to do that, it's hard to find the motivation to do it.

 

I'm sure that he probably is doing it on purpose, but you're right, no way to know for sure. I think if it were me, it would make me feel better and more hopeful; I would feel that I had at least some small indication that perhaps he was thinking of me. It seems to make you feel worse, not better. I can see it bringing sadness to see him and yet be unable to be with him. And I imagine that it's frustrating, because if he's doing it on purpose, then why won't he just man up and reach out and end all this silence. Even typing that sentence makes me feel the frustration as if I were living it. For what it's worth, I still think it's only a matter of time before he sends some sort of text, or makes some kind of move like he did the last two times.

 

I tried to put myself in his shoes. He's been known to do this to get some sort of reaction from me and although, I realize I may cross his mind enough for him to drive by, it makes me feel like he's just game playing. I feel as though he's just trying to get a reaction just for the heck of it..maybe even boredom. Maybe it's for attention. I feel sadness when I see him because I realize he isn't going to talk to me. It is frustrating and it lets me know he isn't going through what I'm going through. If he were, he would man up and end all this silence like you said. So immature and it makes me mad just typing. It's possible that he may end up text or making contact somehow like the other times, but just like I still have some underlying anger for him, I believe he is not very fond of me and still believes the relationship will not work. Therefore, I will not hear from him.

 

You're right where I would expect you to be. It hasn't been that long; not even a month yet, right? These things take time. Some people are able to get over things more quickly, but for most, a month is nothing. Don't push yourself too hard, or get impatient with yourself, or criticize yourself for not being further along. The pace you're going is completely fine and normal.

 

Thank you for saying this. He is on my mind much of the time, but it's is still not going to stop me from taking advantage of this downfall in my life. I am still striving to do what I can to build self confidence within myself. I know I am worth so much more than this. I am worth being happy. I still want to be next to him regardless of all that happened, but I do understand that I know I don't need him or anyone else to be happy. Life truly is what you make it and I guess all this hurting that I am doing now is apart of the process in making me the person I'm supposed to be.

 

I don't think he's seeing anyone new, or he wouldn't be driving by your work. I just thought to wonder, though... do you ever log into your own account anymore, or just always stay on your friend's account? If you're never on yours, then he may be wondering what you're up to as well, because it would appear that you're never on facebook at all.

 

I log in to my facebook account daily just to browse through the timeline, but I don't stay on long. We are not friends so he cant see if I'm posting and I don't know if he's figured out the messenger thing like we have. When I look at things from his end, he really has no way to get any kind of idea what is going on in my life. I don't post on social media. The only way he can get a glimpse of me is at my job and if that is what he's doing, we're both doing the same stupidness. We're both just sitting back and trying to watch eachother's moves and not dealing with the real issues here. I just caught myself. This is all so meaningless and I'm over it already. Also, I wanted to tell you that you should never feel bad about false hope. I'm very realistic about my situation and when it comes to previous history with him, there is a possibility things could happen the same way, so I completely understand why you feel that way at times especially when you hear that he is driving by my job. I know what's important here and I'm just trying to do the right thing. I have to constantly remind myself.

 

To answer your question, "I am wondering, if after the few times we have discussed it here, are you able to interrupt your thoughts and say...hmm..maybe this isn't so, I don't really know, it could be a coincidence or are you just very sure in your thinking?"

This is hard to describe, but it's kind of both at the same time. Like I do feel completely almost 100% sure that they're together. I feel like even though what I've seen is minimal, it's enough to make the conclusion, just knowing him and how he is as well as the patterns I've seen with both of them and so forth. Yet at the same time, I acknowledge to myself that I can't really be sure, and that maybe I'm wrong. How could it be both like that? So sure, and yet also knowing it could be a coincidence? Like literally at the same time, I feel these two things. Or maybe the two thoughts flip-flop back and forth so fast that it just feels like I'm thinking two contradictory thoughts at the same time. I don't know if that even begins to make sense, what I'm saying. It barely makes sense to me. But somehow, I feel a little calmer about it all (just a little), and I honestly have you to thank for that. It really helps me so much when you remind me that my thinking may be off, or that maybe I'm jumping to conclusions with little basis. Maybe it's subconsciously had an affect on me, even when my conscious mind is telling me they're together. Or maybe my way of thinking is changing due to your reminders, little by little, slowly but surely. Once or twice, I've actually repeated it to myself (the things you've said, that there have been no sure signs that they're close), and it does help. Bolt, you also told me the same a few pages ago when I first learned of the new girl, which helped also and I thank you as well! This is a great place, isn't it? Sometimes it might take a while to realize that what everyone is saying has gotten through, but it really does get through, even if gradually, or even if it takes a while to actually *hear* something that is being said.

 

I completely understand what you're saying. You're just like me. I think both ways, but when I've come to a conclusion, my assumptions always win..they take forefront. Since I've been working on this, I literally tell myself to stop the thoughts and I begin to think about something else. If I didn't, I'd spend alot of time playing out what I think is actually going on in my mind. I don't believe these two are in a relationship. If they were or it was a different relationship than the others, you'd see pictures or comments. When people first fall in love, they want the whole world to know. I don't think you're wrong for what you've drawn up because I probably would have done the same, but hopefully it is not emotionally robbing you or taking up too much head space because there hasn't been anything definite. Have you seen anything new?

 

Maybe this is the perfect example of things happening exactly as they should and when they should. Your start with the new therapist came at the exact right time - when you needed the support from the breakup, and when you were clear to work completely on yourself instead of focusing on you and him as a couple.

 

I do believe this is the way things were supposed to happen. I spent alot of time before the first breakup saying to myself and to him, I can't believe this is happening. I couldn't believe I found someone who made me so unbelievably happy. I loved our life together and it was too good to be true. He would always tell me to enjoy it and let focus on eachother to keep this thing strong. I lost sight of that I guess. I truly believe this was an absolute necessary part of the process. I don't think I've ever learned so much about myself in my 32 years. I will probably always hold resentment against him (hopefully not) for catapulting me into this path to self discovery. I would never have done it on my own and it's not something someone else can teach you. I've always told him that it is because of him that I have become a better person and I still feel that way, but he will never know the specifics behind it and I'll probably never explain it to him either. Just because I don't think it's right to shut someone out in silence. Communication is everything. In the case of these breakups, NC served me some personal good purpose, but as a general rule, it's destructive.

 

Have a wonderful Sunday! I'm going to get some reading in. Be back later.

[lostlove76]

Hi ksol. I just got up a short while ago. I was really stupid and drank too much last night, and now I don't feel great. I'm jealous of your rainy day! I love the rain too. It's cold and windy here today.

 

You also spoke about anger and the harsh words being exchanged. That is something I am still holding onto. I still have this underlying anger for him for saying some of those things. I don't know how to let it go because it's just there. It's not strong anger, but it's still there. I know anger subsides with time, but I remember often how he said things like...I don't know how we lasted this long. I know I said much worse and he may be holding onto some of the things I said, but that just hurt me I guess. Anger is usually just a response to pain.

Yes, anger is definitely a response to pain. That's why I hold so much anger towards mine. I still never replied to you about that from a while back, but I hold A LOT of anger for the things he did.... but it's really all just from feeling so hurt. I can completely understand holding onto what yours said and being unable to let it go. Once words are spoken, it's hard not to take them as truth. But I honestly feel that he just said that out of frustration. People say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment, and words said in anger should always be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I tried to put myself in his shoes. He's been known to do this to get some sort of reaction from me and although, I realize I may cross his mind enough for him to drive by, it makes me feel like he's just game playing. I feel as though he's just trying to get a reaction just for the heck of it..maybe even boredom. Maybe it's for attention. I feel sadness when I see him because I realize he isn't going to talk to me. It is frustrating and it lets me know he isn't going through what I'm going through. If he were, he would man up and end all this silence like you said. So immature and it makes me mad just typing. It's possible that he may end up text or making contact somehow like the other times, but just like I still have some underlying anger for him, I believe he is not very fond of me and still believes the relationship will not work. Therefore, I will not hear from him.

I don't believe he would be doing it out of boredom or just for the heck of it. He either wants to see what you're up to, or he's trying to get a reaction so that he doesn't have to speak first. Which is stupid, maybe, but for whatever reasons, he has a hard time reaching out. It most definitely is frustrating, I agree. He may be feeling just as frustrated - maybe wanting to talk, but can't figure out how to make it happen. We just don't know what's going through his head. But I would say that him driving by is a good sign, not a bad one, as frustrating as it may be. If he was resolute in his belief that the relationship will never work, or if he hated you, he wouldn't be bothering to do the drive-bys.

 

I don't know if he's figured out the messenger thing like we have.

I wonder if he has, and wonder if mine has. I wish I knew when facebook started this, to see how long it took for me to notice it. I just happened to see him in my list one day, and before I saw him there, I rarely ever even looked at the list to see who was online. Now that I know I can see when he's on, I look at it all the time. Every time he gets on, I'm wondering if he sees me there too. Sometimes I'll get off when he gets on, because I don't want him to see me lurking around. I've wondered if I even show up in his list, since I know he deleted our previous messenger chat, and he's probably deleted my number out of his phone by now, I would imagine. Those are the reasons a non-friend will show up - either you've chatted before, or they're showing up because their number is in your phone contacts.

 

The only way he can get a glimpse of me is at my job and if that is what he's doing, we're both doing the same stupidness.

Yes, I do imagine you're both doing the same thing. Both watching, both waiting, both unwilling to reach out. It's hard to reach out when you don't have any clue what the other person is thinking or feeling. Like I said about the other thing, this also goes both ways. He has no idea if you hate him, if you've moved on, if you no longer care, if you're too hurt to talk to him, if you've decided the relationship just won't work. It can be scary to make yourself vulnerable and face rejection, and I'm sure that's a very large part of why he's not saying anything but is lurking around your job. Then when he sees you, you won't look at him or show any reaction at all (I would do the same as you're doing, so I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong). So he really has no clue what you're feeling or thinking, or how you would react if he reached out. If you put yourself in his shoes, you can see how that would make it very difficult to speak up at all.

 

Also, I wanted to tell you that you should never feel bad about false hope. I'm very realistic about my situation and when it comes to previous history with him, there is a possibility things could happen the same way, so I completely understand why you feel that way at times especially when you hear that he is driving by my job. I know what's important here and I'm just trying to do the right thing. I have to constantly remind myself.

Okay, good. I just don't ever want to get in the way of your healing, or urge you towards the wrong path of thought.

 

I don't believe these two are in a relationship. If they were or it was a different relationship than the others, you'd see pictures or comments. When people first fall in love, they want the whole world to know. I don't think you're wrong for what you've drawn up because I probably would have done the same, but hopefully it is not emotionally robbing you or taking up too much head space because there hasn't been anything definite. Have you seen anything new?

I haven't seen anything new at all. But who knows what's on his page that I can't see (or hers, for that matter). I'm really glad that his is private, actually. I have a few people I could ask to look for me and see what is there, but I have no desire to do that because I'm afraid of what I'd find. Part of me would rather not know, and yet I look for it, strangely enough. There is very little to see that is public. Both of their relationship statuses still stay single, but this thing with them is less than a month old, and also, some people just don't feel the need to update relationship status. Sooooo, I still have nothing to go on other than the heart like on the profile photo, his mom as a friend, the smiley face comment on the cover photo, and them seeming to be offline at all the same times.

 

Just because I don't think it's right to shut someone out in silence. Communication is everything. In the case of these breakups, NC served me some personal good purpose, but as a general rule, it's destructive.

I agree. This makes me realize that I myself have always shut people out in silence, cut them out of my life completely, etc. It's my very first reaction to pain or conflict. Wow, why didn't I ever mention or realize this before. It's just such an automatic response for me. It's just what I do. It's what he does, too, and it's also what you're doing. I guess maybe it's what everyone does (or a lot of people, at least). All this NC stuff online urges one to go completely silent and cut all ties immediately. It's just not good. People need communication, whether it's for working things out, or even for closure. Yes, NC has it's benefits and is necessary at times. But it's highly destructive as a general rule, like you just said. And it teaches us not to deal with anything, but to just wait on the other person to fix everything. It's disturbing, really.

 

I'll be around, I don't have to work today, if you want to chat. Enjoy your rain!!! Sounds so cozy Talk again soon.

[Ksol9]

Aww, sorry you're not feeling so great. Luckily you didn't have so work, so you can rest as much as possible. I've been just lounging around all day.

 

I don't believe he would be doing it out of boredom or just for the heck of it. He either wants to see what you're up to, or he's trying to get a reaction so that he doesn't have to speak first. Which is stupid, maybe, but for whatever reasons, he has a hard time reaching out. It most definitely is frustrating, I agree. He may be feeling just as frustrated - maybe wanting to talk, but can't figure out how to make it happen. We just don't know what's going through his head. But I would say that him driving by is a good sign, not a bad one, as frustrating as it may be. If he was resolute in his belief that the relationship will never work, or if he hated you, he wouldn't be bothering to do the drive-bys.

 

Sometimes I stop and wonder if I'm just imagining all these things. As it appears to me, he just doesn't want anything to do with me period. He is living his life and is unbothered. At the same time, if he is driving by to get a reaction or to see if I will make contact first, I could see why it would be very difficult for him to reach out. I know that he has difficulty communicating because it took him so long to talk to me in the past and if I were in his shoes, I would have a great deal of anxiety trying to figure out what to say. Thankfully I've written off any option of me reaching out to him. Sometimes I think my mind is playing tricks on me. I think even if he wanted to talk, I believe he is going to leave things as they are. I don't see him finding the courage or the strength to go back on anything he said to me that day. It has almost been 1 month since I left. I feel silly even talking about him driving by and so forth because he could just be driving by out of curiosity and may even be with someone new.

 

This NC thing is horrible and I think that is the reason why we hold on to some anger. It never gets resolved and rather than let go, we hold on to anger. I would like to be at peace with it all one day. I'd hate to carry this anger with me indefinitely. I can't think of one person in my life that I have still have anger for. I'm pretty good at making peace with things like that once I've moved on. It's just with him, I'm frustrated with the whole situation. I feel so neglected. I know I have a lot of work to do on myself and that should be my main focus. I guess I shouldn't take it so personal. This is just how he handles his matters. I don't think I'll ever agree with it, but this is just who he is. A part of me still hopes that he will turn this around, but as more time goes by, I realize I need to hold on to reality. I need to be strong and do what's best for me.

 

Feeling discouraged again.

The pain and the work that has to go into recovering and redeeming yourself after a breakup is not worth it at all. None of it was worth it.

I'm being a negative Nancy, I'm going to hop in the shower. Maybe I can wash this negativity away. lol Talk again soon!

[lostlove76]

Hi again. I'm sorry you're feeling so discouraged. I know that none of this is easy; it's a horrible thing to have to go through. On the positive side, you made it through another weekend.

 

I agree with you about NC being the reason we hold on to anger. Nothing can be resolved without contact, either between two people or within your own mind. Things are just left to fester, and people are left feeling like they never mattered which is the most hurtful thing of all.

 

I'm not in a very positive mood myself today either. I haven't seen him online a single time today. I don't know why it bothers me so much, or why I feel better when I do see him. Him getting on proves nothing about anything, except that he's probably not with anyone at that exact moment. I guess, like I've said, I sometimes imagine that he's watching me on there too, but it's highly doubtful after all this time. When we were together, I always felt like he played games - stayed online to see if I would say something first, or stayed offline to see if I would contact him. I have no idea if he was really doing all of that, but it felt like it. I remember asking his ex if she felt like he played games, and she said of course he does, that she saw it too. I often wondered if it was all in my head. Just like you wondering if you're imagining that he's purposely doing drivebys. Games suck, no matter what someone's reasons are for them. But I've found myself doing it too, plenty of times. Posting on mutual friend's pages hoping he'll see it and it will trigger some feelings and he'll make contact. Ugh.

 

The season finale of The Affair is on tonight (wonderful show), and then I'll probably try to go to bed after that. Just feeling blah. I hope your night got a little better.

[Ksol9]

Hi again. I'm sorry you're feeling so discouraged. I know that none of this is easy; it's a horrible thing to have to go through. On the positive side, you made it through another weekend.

 

I agree with you about NC being the reason we hold on to anger. Nothing can be resolved without contact, either between two people or within your own mind. Things are just left to fester, and people are left feeling like they never mattered which is the most hurtful thing of all.

 

I'm not in a very positive mood myself today either. I haven't seen him online a single time today. I don't know why it bothers me so much, or why I feel better when I do see him. Him getting on proves nothing about anything, except that he's probably not with anyone at that exact moment. I guess, like I've said, I sometimes imagine that he's watching me on there too, but it's highly doubtful after all this time. When we were together, I always felt like he played games - stayed online to see if I would say something first, or stayed offline to see if I would contact him. I have no idea if he was really doing all of that, but it felt like it. I remember asking his ex if she felt like he played games, and she said of course he does, that she saw it too. I often wondered if it was all in my head. Just like you wondering if you're imagining that he's purposely doing drivebys. Games suck, no matter what someone's reasons are for them. But I've found myself doing it too, plenty of times. Posting on mutual friend's pages hoping he'll see it and it will trigger some feelings and he'll make contact. Ugh.

 

The season finale of The Affair is on tonight (wonderful show), and then I'll probably try to go to bed after that. Just feeling blah. I hope your night got a little better.

 

Hey there. Sorry to hear that you're not in the best mood today. I understand how you feel. I think when you see him online frequently you can assume he isn't enjoying his time so much so that he doesn't have time to get on facebook. Although there could be plenty of other reasons why he might not be online, I understand that you may assume he is with someone else. I would do the same. I think most people get on facebook when they are idle, bored, and when they just want to pass time. So I think him not being online at all is making your mind wander and it is effecting your mood. I'm just really sorry because I know what that feels like.

 

The game playing...it's funny because during our first split, he would post direct messages on there to either hurt my feelings or he would post a pictures of flowers he sent me, quotes, songs, you name it. Even then I couldn't believe it. I kept saying my mind was playing tricks on me, but now looking back I had to be a fool not to see they were direct pokes. We don't think grown men play these types of games for attention, but they absolutely do. We're all human I guess. One thing that came to mind though, it just goes to show how unhealthy it is. In a healthy relationship, any relationship not just romantic, there should be no game playing, manipulation, ect. I mean we are all manipulative to an extent, but there should be no game playing to accomplish something. He should be able to call me up, express whatever he needed to get off his chest, and then we move forward. Same in your situation, but again, NC in situations like that are what they resort to and even you and I have resorted to. I still don't feel it is my job to initiate conversation with him. He made this decision and I would be a fool to ask him to reconsider. That is a conclusion he has to come up with on his own. But I totally get what you're saying about the game playing. It's just a crappy thing for them to do.

 

I was just thinking...they both use facebook quite alot, so I wouldn't be surprised if they noticed the same thing we have about the messenger. I don't use facebook alot at all. The only reason I am on more frequently now is because of the breakup, but it wasn't long before I noticed I could see him online. I'm thinking it's very likely they've realized this too.

 

Anyhow, enjoy your show. I'm glad the weekend is over, but it also means next weekend is on it's way. I just feel like I'm dragging these days. I don't have any zest for life. I have this huge weight on my chest. The only thing I have to look forward to is my therapy appointment and even that I'm not really looking forward to. I don't have much to report..nothing new. Have a great night and if we don't chat again tonight, I hope you get a good night's rest. Talk to you later.

[lostlove76]

Hi. I'm sitting around feeling uncomfortable. Not really anxious, but just edgy or something. Hard to describe. I'm sure it's a combination of having drank too much last night, and him not being online all day.

 

Hey there. Sorry to hear that you're not in the best mood today. I understand how you feel. I think when you see him online frequently you can assume he isn't enjoying his time so much so that he doesn't have time to get on facebook. Although there could be plenty of other reasons why he might not be online, I understand that you may assume he is with someone else. I would do the same. I think most people get on facebook when they are idle, bored, and when they just want to pass time. So I think him not being online at all is making your mind wander and it is effecting your mood. I'm just really sorry because I know what that feels like.

Yes, this pretty much nails it.

 

I was just thinking...they both use facebook quite alot, so I wouldn't be surprised if they noticed the same thing we have about the messenger. I don't use facebook alot at all. The only reason I am on more frequently now is because of the breakup, but it wasn't long before I noticed I could see him online. I'm thinking it's very likely they've realized this too.

You're probably right, and I hope that you are. I want him to see me online. Maybe he'll remember I exist

I wonder if guys facebook stalk like we do, or if it doesn't even cross their mind to do it. I do have one male friend who I know did it with his ex for a while. We know all these little tips and tricks to find info lol, and I don't know if most guys know about that stuff. Or if they would even bother with it if they did.

 

I got sidetracked as I was typing this, because someone just sent me the sweetest message on facebook. I used to have this guy friend who I would talk to about my situation all the time, and he would talk to me about his situation with his girlfriend. I spent many hours crying to him over the phone, and we gave each other advice all the time. It was strictly platonic, and we both fully respected each other's relationships, and tried to help each other improve them. He ended up getting married to his girlfriend, and we quit talking after that because she was a bit uncomfortable with it (which I completely understood and respected, 100%). Anyways, she and I are facebook friends and usually like each other's pictures and such, but have never talked outside of that. And she just sent me the sweetest message reaching out to see if I'd like to be friends because we have so much in common. It just really warmed my heart. I need to reply back to her and then I'll come back and finish commenting.

[lostlove76]

She is so sweet, we just had a nice long chat about common interests. I'm glad she doesn't see me as a threat, because I never was one. I've always liked her.

 

Now I have a guy messaging out of the blue, pretty much asking for sex, and he has a girlfriend. What is wrong with people??? I told him I'm not that kind of girl, and he still kept on with it. I'm just going to ignore him. I should b1!tch him out for being such a sh1tty boyfriend. His poor girlfriend, my goodness. Sometimes I hate guys, I swear. So many crappy ones out there.

ETA: This is how ALL girls should react when propositioned by someone with a wife or girlfriend. You were saying before that you don't dislike the married woman, because it wasn't her fault that he chose to reach out to her. That is true, but as women, we should all stand by one another and not allow guys to be cheating jerks. The right thing to do is to ward off any flirting (or worse) with anyone who is taken. She knew he had a girlfriend and she responded anyways. Not cool, and makes her not a good person, on top of the fact that she herself is married.

 

The game playing...it's funny because during our first split, he would post direct messages on there to either hurt my feelings or he would post a pictures of flowers he sent me, quotes, songs, you name it. Even then I couldn't believe it. I kept saying my mind was playing tricks on me, but now looking back I had to be a fool not to see they were direct pokes. We don't think grown men play these types of games for attention, but they absolutely do. We're all human I guess.

Game-playing makes you question your sanity (not literally, but you know what I mean) and question whether you're actually seeing what you're seeing. So I can totally understand not feeling sure that his facebook posts were directed at you, and now not feeling sure whether he is really doing drive-bys or it's a coincidence. But since you know for sure that he has done these things before, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that he really is driving by on purpose. Which means he is thinking about you. I would let that ease your mind a little, as frustrating as it may be. He hasn't forgotten you or just moved on with life, it appears.

 

One thing that came to mind though, it just goes to show how unhealthy it is. In a healthy relationship, any relationship not just romantic, there should be no game playing, manipulation, ect. I mean we are all manipulative to an extent, but there should be no game playing to accomplish something. He should be able to call me up, express whatever he needed to get off his chest, and then we move forward. Same in your situation, but again, NC in situations like that are what they resort to and even you and I have resorted to. I still don't feel it is my job to initiate conversation with him. He made this decision and I would be a fool to ask him to reconsider. That is a conclusion he has to come up with on his own. But I totally get what you're saying about the game playing. It's just a crappy thing for them to do.

I agree with all of the above, everything you said here. You're right that there should be no game-playing in a healthy relationship. Especially at our age. It's probably a sign of immaturity, or at least emotional stuntedness. A sign that someone has communication issues. But also maybe just a sign of someone who wants to make contact but fears rejection. I don't know that I would say it's a horrible thing; it's just extremely frustrating, because nothing gets accomplished.

 

Anyhow, enjoy your show. I'm glad the weekend is over, but it also means next weekend is on it's way. I just feel like I'm dragging these days. I don't have any zest for life. I have this huge weight on my chest. The only thing I have to look forward to is my therapy appointment and even that I'm not really looking forward to. I don't have much to report..nothing new. Have a great night and if we don't chat again tonight, I hope you get a good night's rest. Talk to you later.

I know how you feel I feel the same way. The highlight of my week was waiting on something to arrive that I had ordered from amazon lol. That's about the extent of anything I've had to look forward to. I feel like it's totally okay not to have anything new to discuss with your therapist. You'll always get something out of each session, whatever it is. Did you finish the codependent book yet? I forget if you said you'd finished reading it.

 

I'll be up for a little while longer if you want to write again. Otherwise, I hope you get some sleep, and I look forward to hearing about your therapy session tomorrow. Talk soon

[Ksol9]

She is so sweet, we just had a nice long chat about common interests. I'm glad she doesn't see me as a threat, because I never was one. I've always liked her.

 

Now I have a guy messaging out of the blue, pretty much asking for sex, and he has a girlfriend. What is wrong with people??? I told him I'm not that kind of girl, and he still kept on with it. I'm just going to ignore him. I should b1!tch him out for being such a sh1tty boyfriend. His poor girlfriend, my goodness. Sometimes I hate guys, I swear. So many crappy ones out there.

ETA: This is how ALL girls should react when propositioned by someone with a wife or girlfriend. You were saying before that you don't dislike the married woman, because it wasn't her fault that he chose to reach out to her. That is true, but as women, we should all stand by one another and not allow guys to be cheating jerks. The right thing to do is to ward off any flirting (or worse) with anyone who is taken. She knew he had a girlfriend and she responded anyways. Not cool, and makes her not a good person, on top of the fact that she herself is married.

 

That's really great that you two were able to talk. Just curious..before they were married, did he confide in you about their relationship troubles? I think it's really awesome that you and her could possibly grow a friendship.

 

Also about the married woman, I agree with everything you said. I may not have been thinking both ways when i initially wrote that I didn't dislike her. You are absolutely correct, she is just as wrong for allowing. I think of it from my point of view, if I were ever put in a situation where a married man or man in a relationship continued to reach out to me while in s relationship, I would never allow it. It would make less of a woman, so in that regard, yes! She's total trash. She knew he was in a relationship. They're both just as bad. They're both losers for that and if he wants to continue to have her as an option or in his life, they can have eachother. They will stay in the same position they are in...her a married woman having outside relationships and him having casual relationships with her and others. I'm so much better than that and I want no part in it. Another reason why I won't contact him. Of course I don't know that they're involved, but I saw him friend her and then delete so I can just imagine.

 

I agree with all of the above, everything you said here. You're right that there should be no game-playing in a healthy relationship. Especially at our age. It's probably a sign of immaturity, or at least emotional stuntedness. A sign that someone has communication issues. But also maybe just a sign of someone who wants to make contact but fears rejection. I don't know that I would say it's a horrible thing; it's just extremely frustrating, because nothing gets accomplished.

 

You're right that this shouldn't be happening at our age. I think the point that it's really about someone wants contact but fears rejection is an excellent point. That's pretty much what it boils down to in my situation. I won't contact for those reasons and I'm assuming the same for him.

 

Everything aside, I'm missing him so much today. I wish I could talk to him, but I know it's not possible.. I haven't finished the book yet. I set a goal to finish this weekend but I couldn't concentrate at all.

[lostlove76]

That's really great that you two were able to talk. Just curious..before they were married, did he confide in you about their relationship troubles? I think it's really awesome that you and her could possibly grow a friendship.

He did confide in me about their troubles, yes. The argument could probably be made that it was wrong of us to do this. But honestly, and I hope this doesn't come out wrong as if I'm patting myself on the back at all or inflating my importance, because I'm really not (I find it annoying when people do that), just explaining... I think I honestly helped them reach the point of marriage, and he even thanked me for that. He was having a TON of anxieties and worries and doubts along the way. He's an overthinker like you and I are, and very prone to negative thinking. So I would help him calm his anxieties, explain to him the way females think and why they do certain things, help him not take certain things so personally. There were a couple of times when he was pretty freaked out and thinking he should just call the whole thing off, and we talked it through until he was able to calm down and see things from another perspective. I've always liked her (from what I knew of her through him and through facebook) and knew that a lot of his negative thoughts were unfounded and just a result of negative overthinking, so I always encouraged the relationship. And he did the same for me! He didn't so much encourage it, because he didn't feel like mine was a great guy, but he really helped calm a lot of my anxieties and see things differently, and gave me advice on what to do. It was a really wonderful friendship, and we never crossed any lines whatsoever in terms of flirting or growing feelings or anything of the sort. But I think this kind of friendship is rare, and it takes two people with strong enough morals not to even think about letting things get inappropriate. Then when he decided we needed to quit talking, we said our goodbyes and never talked again. I miss his friendship, but totally respect the fact that it came time to stop talking. He even deleted me off facebook as a show of good faith to her, because she was slightly worried at one point. That's what a standup guy should do!! He should eliminate all perceived threats to his relationship, lovingly and willingly. I respect him for that, and I wish all guys were like that. They're both really good people, him and her, and I'm glad she reached out to me.

 

Also about the married woman, I agree with everything you said. I may not have been thinking both ways when i initially wrote that I didn't dislike her. You are absolutely correct, she is just as wrong for allowing. I think of it from my point of view, if I were ever put in a situation where a married man or man in a relationship continued to reach out to me while in s relationship, I would never allow it. It would make less of a woman, so in that regard, yes! She's total trash. She knew he was in a relationship. They're both just as bad. They're both losers for that and if he wants to continue to have her as an option or in his life, they can have eachother. They will stay in the same position they are in...her a married woman having outside relationships and him having casual relationships with her and others. I'm so much better than that and I want no part in it. Another reason why I won't contact him. Of course I don't know that they're involved, but I saw him friend her and then delete so I can just imagine.

Totally agree! If that's the kind of woman he chooses to be with, then he's most definitely not good enough for you. And she's just disgusting with all of her behaviors. They could never have anything good and solid, because like you said, she'll always have a husband on the side. I really don't think they have anything going right now though, for what it's worth. I don't sense that he's involved with anyone at all. If he was, he wouldn't be doing the drive-bys. Even IF he is chatting with someone, I'm very sure that it's shallow and meaningless. I don't think you have anything to worry about in that regard. Not for a good long while, anyway. He's still thinking of you, I believe.

 

You're right that this shouldn't be happening at our age. I think the point that it's really about someone wants contact but fears rejection is an excellent point. That's pretty much what it boils down to in my situation. I won't contact for those reasons and I'm assuming the same for him.

I do think this is a large part of it. When we talk about game-playing, I don't think he is intentionally playing games. I think he just doesn't know what else to do. I think he misses you and wonders what you're up to, hence the drive-bys. And it's possible that he hopes you seeing him will trigger you reaching out. None of this is malicious in any way. Like I said, I take it as a good sign. It would certainly be better if he just reached out directly, but since he seems unable to do that for various reasons, at least this is some sign that he's most likely thinking of you.

 

Everything aside, I'm missing him so much today. I wish I could talk to him, but I know it's not possible.

I know you miss him, and I'm so sorry It's very hard to miss someone when the love is still there, and the person is still living and well, and yet you're unable to actually be with them. There's a quote that floats around on facebook that says something like "The hardest thing you'll ever have to do is grieve the loss of a person who is still alive." It really is so very very difficult and heartbreaking. Even being hurt and angry by what he did and said, you really just miss him above all else.

 

I haven't finished the book yet. I set a goal to finish this weekend but I couldn't concentrate at all.

This is why I haven't even tried to read it yet. I know there's no way I could concentrate at the moment. At least you've read some of it though.

[Ksol9]

Good morning lostlove. I'm at work, but I found some downtime to write. Hope you've gotten some good sleep.

 

He did confide in me about their troubles, yes. The argument could probably be made that it was wrong of us to do this. But honestly, and I hope this doesn't come out wrong as if I'm patting myself on the back at all or inflating my importance, because I'm really not (I find it annoying when people do that), just explaining... I think I honestly helped them reach the point of marriage, and he even thanked me for that. He was having a TON of anxieties and worries and doubts along the way. He's an overthinker like you and I are, and very prone to negative thinking. So I would help him calm his anxieties, explain to him the way females think and why they do certain things, help him not take certain things so personally. There were a couple of times when he was pretty freaked out and thinking he should just call the whole thing off, and we talked it through until he was able to calm down and see things from another perspective.

 

I don't think this was wrong of you at all. The reason for my curiousity is I just wanted to know if his problems were similar to us women. I guess we're all human but anytime I hear about men worried about their relationships, I'm curious to know if they worry like we do and about the same things that we do. I think that was so awesome that you could build a friendship like that and also that you were respectful and understood why your friendship came to a respectful end. He sounds like a great person and you are an even better person of good moral standard. Very rare these days. People don't value their relationships like they should.

 

Totally agree! If that's the kind of woman he chooses to be with, then he's most definitely not good enough for you. And she's just disgusting with all of her behaviors. They could never have anything good and solid, because like you said, she'll always have a husband on the side. I really don't think they have anything going right now though, for what it's worth. I don't sense that he's involved with anyone at all. If he was, he wouldn't be doing the drive-bys. Even IF he is chatting with someone, I'm very sure that it's shallow and meaningless. I don't think you have anything to worry about in that regard. Not for a good long while, anyway. He's still thinking of you, I believe.

 

I don't care what the specifics are to their situation, but married women who have relationship outside of their marriage and with men in relationships or married are just yuck! Classless and lack morals. There are kinds of people in this world, but I don't ever see myself being a woman like this. Thank you for the comforting words about him. You've remained consistent in your thoughts that he is still thinking of me, and while I understand why you feel like that, I don't feel like that is so. Maybe because I'm experiencing it firsthand and not on the outside looking in. I feel like he's just moving on with his life and the more time passes, I feel more and more distant from him. If he's even thinking about how to make contact, it angers me that here we are again. That he even allowed things to get to this point. Every day that passes becomes more and more challenging as I try to come to terms that this relationship is over and we may never speak again. Hard pill to swallow.

 

I do think this is a large part of it. When we talk about game-playing, I don't think he is intentionally playing games. I think he just doesn't know what else to do. I think he misses you and wonders what you're up to, hence the drive-bys. And it's possible that he hopes you seeing him will trigger you reaching out. None of this is malicious in any way. Like I said, I take it as a good sign. It would certainly be better if he just reached out directly, but since he seems unable to do that for various reasons, at least this is some sign that he's most likely thinking of you.

 

This was a good point. Thank you again for showing me to look at things from another perspective. I assume game playing is done intentionally and maliciously and that can encourage my anger. I try to put myself in his shoes and maybe I would do the same. Anytime we have broken up though, I just wanted to stay out of sight out of mind. I was too hurt to see him and I wanted him to talk to me on his own terms, not because I was doing things to get him to talk to me. You would think after 2 breakups, he wouldn't think I'd be the one reaching out. He knows he hurt me and he can easily assume I want nothing to do with him because that is what I said in my last text. Same goes for your situation. He felt you never wanted anything to do with him and so he finally walked away. My situation is a bit different. He made a decision to break up. Whether it was made in anger or frustration, he hasn't changed him mind.

 

I have my therapy appointment tomorrow. I think I will ask him to change it to every other week. I just don't feel like I have anything new to talk about. I know I need to get start getting involved in new activities...maybe exercise. Just don't have the motivation for much of anything and it's only Monday. Happy Monday and hope you have a great start to the week. Talk soon!

[UnchainedSoul]

Hello everyone!

 

Like the newcomers like cdnjc99 and LoveNC I have spent the weekend visiting this thread after lurking for several months on this forum. I was a member for years but have recently come back to ENA hoping to give some advice and insight to anyone struggling at the moment. I want to also take this opportunity to thank Ms. Darcy, BEG, Boltnrun, and even Wiseman72 (he was there briefly in the beginning and is worth the honorable mention), for stopping by and giving phenomenal helpful advice.

 

I will make my post brief and straight to the point. I am 36 years old and still single. I was (in the past) exactly where you ladies were (Ksol and Lostlove) a few years ago in my life, until I met a wonderful man. You know, I put a lot of pressure on him too. I will spare you the details of my insanity of what I put this man through with my insecurities and neediness, but we just ended up being friends in the end, and honestly he has been the best thing to ever happen to me. He will be my lifelong companion, and even if I never find love again, I am happy to say I will at least have someone to grow old with.

 

Why am I mentioning this? Because I have finally let go. After years of therapy, self-care, coping strategies, and the help of my friends and family I got to finally know what it was to love ME. A man like my best friend would have never come in my life if I wasn't ready for him. And yes, my situation is different, but ultimately, it comes down to ME and YOU too. I ran around for years and wasted SO MUCH TIME after nonsense boys, (cause face it that's what they are boys), so then when a real MAN came along, after years of second guessing, I finally became comfortable in my own skin and can now look at relationships objectively.

 

A man will never complete you, ladies. The cliche of "love yourself first" has more meaning to it than you know. Now, I know you can't help the Facebook stalking, and I empathize, because I KNOW that's hard. I know BEG mentioned stalking on AOL buddy lists, omg, been there! Letting go takes courage and SO much strength. People don't understand looking from the outside how hard that is, but I am telling you, as many others have. It IS possible to find a good man, in due time. Think of all the time wasted pining over these men, when that great love is just out there waiting? At this point in our lives we should be enjoying the peak of our sexuality, our prime in the height of our thirties, not being bogged down with no sleep and bags under our eyes from all the tears.

 

Enjoy your family ladies. Try to rediscover yourselves. Ksol, yoga sounds great and I know you had almost disregarded therapy in the beginning, but I am glad you decided to stick with it. We hold ourselves back. We are our worst enemy and our worst critics. I feel like I have been a part of your lives reading these posts these past couple of days, and my heart truly and utterly goes out to you all who are struggling, and my deepest warmest thanks to those that stopped by to give support. And not that I am religious, but God doesn't have a blind eye to you, even in these darkest times. You are wonderful good kind sweet women who deserve a great love, and I believe it is coming to you as soon as you let go of the past. Stay strong, I know you have the strength.

 

And please, most of all, be kind to yourselves.

[Ksol9]

UnchainedSoul, thank you very much for reading my story. I'm in a really difficult place today. I'm overwhelmed by sadness. I decided to come home and that is when I saw your post. I really needed to hear something like this today.

 

It's exactly like you said...love yourself first. I try to remind myself of that when I wake up each day, but it has proved to be very challenging as I'm going through this emotionally difficult time in my life. It's so hard to put yourself first when all you energy is being put into the loss of something you held on to so tightly. And you're absolutely right, a man will never complete you. I think, as evidenced by my story here on the forum, I searched high and low for why my relationship did not work. It was only recently I started to piece together what is really beneath the surface. That phrase has such a new meaning now. I neglected myself time and time again. That is the reason why him and I met failure everytime we got back together. He is not apart of my healing and nor will he bring me happiness. Happiness will come from within and I'm hoping that all the efforts I am making don't go for nothing.

 

Sometimes I sit and think about where I am right now in my life and I wonder if I am only fooling myself. I am doing all that I'm supposed to do, therapy, reading, writing, researching..soul searching, you name it just to move myself through this dark place...still my greatest loss in all of this is him. I don't even know what I'm holding on to anymore.

 

I know everything you are saying is true and I am so grateful for your comments as well anyone else who has invested in my story. It helps me...more than you'll ever know.

[UnchainedSoul]

Ksol! My dear, my darling, never give up! I know you are in a bad place right now, it's hard being where you're at. It's hard to actually put words into action when you are feeling incredibly vulnerable and sad. This is a very emotional time in your life you're right, the best you can do is write about it, get it out of you, like you have been doing here and EVENTUALLY time will heal you. I know I cannot bring you comfort with such cliche phrases like "time heals all wounds" but there is some truth to that. It is so hard I know, dear, I know. But you aren't alone in this fight. Others have reached out, and your dear sweet soul Lostlove has been right by your side through this journey. There are people who care and who genuinely feel what you are feeling.

 

The self-doubt. Oh, girl I know it so well! All the positive things you are doing feels like a mountain when you are feeling sad. But one thing I will say is that it does pass. There have been some real positive posts you have made in this thread when you really shine and see through the fog of this place you are in right now. But there is light in the fog. You held onto a "dream of a man." You held on tightly because you were such an awesome stepmom and you were a family. But you know someone said on this thread earlier, and it was even said in the movie "He's Just Not Into You" (great chick-flick by the way if you haven't seen it), that if a man WANTS you, he will move mountains to have you. He will fight for you in the end no matter what it takes. All this self blame you put on yourself, will just force you down more in the hole, and I don't want to see such a bright flame like yours extinguished because of a man.

 

Now I am not telling you to "snap out of it" because that would be an exercise in futility. What I am saying is bring joy back in your life by doing things for yourself. You're like me in a way, when I feel a bit blue or down in the dumps I have a luxurious shower with amazing bath body wash and decadent lotions after the shower. Treat yourself. Pamper yourself. I saw that you got your hair done the other weekend a while back, go get your nails done too next time. Aromatherapy works wonders for me. I basically maxed out my credit card at Bath and Body Works cause their 3-wick candles are to die for! Or if you don't want to break the bank, I suggest some incense to lighten your mood. Deck yourself out with your beautiful cleansed body, light the incense or candle and listen to some soft music as you read all of the wonderful books that were suggested. And they don't even have to be books about relationships, maybe you can pull yourself out of that whole arena and read something incredibly silly! Like last night I watched the new Ghostbusters movie and it was so God Awful but you know what? It made me laugh and made me not think about the fact that I am a bipolar maniac with no job and no money and no future. You never know whose shoes you could be in, when you look at the big picture.

 

But gentle hugs to you as you find your way. I will be here, as I am sure your other friends will be soon as well. Be kind today, and find one thing, one thing no matter how small that you can concentrate on to get your head out of that hamster wheel. It will do you wonders!

[lostlove76]

Good morning/afternoon I don't have much time to write because I need to get ready for work, so will just reply to a couple of things for now. Unchainedsoul, thank you so much for writing such a sweet and inspiring post. I'm glad to hear that you're in a good place, despite having been where ksol and I are in the past. I would love to ask you, and any of the others here, how exactly you go about finding self-love? It seems like such a vague concept to me and I wouldn't even know where to start. I know you mentioned therapy, self-care, and coping strategies. I can see how this could eventually make life and relationships easier to deal with, but I'm unsure at what point it translates into loving yourself more. Please forgive my ignorance. This is something I've always struggled with.

 

Ksol, thank you for your kind words about my friendship with the guy friend. He really is an amazing person, and I was very lucky to have him in my life when I was having many difficulties with insecurities over my ex before he moved. As for whether or not men worry about the same things we do, this one certainly did! I'm not sure if that is typical of most men. His personality was very much like yours and mine, and like I said, he's an overthinker and prone to the negative. He worried a lot that she was just using him and that she didn't really love him enough. He worried that she was on her phone all the time while they were together instead of giving him full attention. He worried occassionally about guys she might be talking to. About jewelry she still had that was given to her by exes in the past. Worried that she took him for granted. Worried if she sounded tired one night and didn't want to come over. Wondered why he always had to be the first to say good morning each day, and waited a couple of times to see if she would when he didn't. He tested her with little questions sometimes to see if her responses were as they should be. Lol. It was always something, and that's just a small handful of examples. He was very vocal about all of it with me, but I don't know if most men talk to friends about this stuff. Most probably hold it inside, so it's hard to know if they are having any of the same concerns.

 

Therapy every other week sounds like a good plan, since you're struggling to find new things to talk about. You can always go back to weekly if need be.

 

You would think after 2 breakups, he wouldn't think I'd be the one reaching out.

You would think this to be the case, yes. I always thought the same with mine, but he asked me a couple of times why I didn't call, like when he called after the 6 weeks NC after he moved. He said he thought I had found someone else. I was taken aback that he even asked why I didn't call, because I thought it was clear that I will never make first contact. So who knows what they're really thinking in their own heads. I would think yours would know from experience that you will not be the one to reach out, but maybe he's clueless. Or maybe he thinks if you really cared you would call - just like you're thinking. By all appearances (to him), it does seem like you want nothing to do with him. You've given no indications to the contrary, no poking, no smoke signals, nothing. Maybe by poking around, he's hoping you'll realize he wants to talk. I wish mine would poke, but he hasn't at all. Unless he's hung around online some hoping I'll see him like I was doing. There were there were those days when he was on all day long and I thought he was talking to the ex. No telling whose attention he was trying to get (highly doubtful that it was mine), but he was trying to get someone's, because he's normally never on all day long. He never did get on yesterday or last night, btw, and I feel positive that he was with new girl.

 

I'm pushing it close on time, so I better get going. I'll check in again later. Have a good day Hope you're feeling okay this afternoon.

[lostlove76]

I was writing mine and didn't see that you two had posted something new in the meantime, so mine may seem out of context oops. I'll catch up later, hope you're both doing okay.

[Ksol9]

I don't know what happened. I felt this overwhelming sadness coming on and I decided to go home. I fell flat face down today. It has been difficult, but I've just been managing and passing the days. I don't even know what triggered my feelings today. It just caught me by surprise.

 

I wake up each day telling myself that I am grateful for my life. I have such wonderful family. I am so fortunate. I have a secure job, I have a roof over my head, I haven't made irreversible mistakes that have impacted my life so severely. I still have a chance at love and happiness. What is there to worry about?

 

I can't handle this anxiety today. I literally have a pain in my chest. I dream of him almost every night, I saw him around my job those few days, I just can't get him out of my system. I just want to run away...somewhere far.

 

I need to get some lunch in my system. Be back to reply to the other posts in a few.

[UnchainedSoul]

Lostlove, Hi dear *waves* Yes I posted some of the self-care strategies I use in my last post but it's no problem! You know it's hard to practice self-love, but you know something as simple as what the therapist mentioned before "positive self-talk" works wonders! My therapist says that when you feed the brain all this negativity, it just loops it back at you and then throws you down in the dumps. The brain only knows what we feed it, and if we feed it all sorts of negative talk and self blame, I mean where does that leave us? I mean that has been a great tool. The trick is to catch yourself when you are doing it. That is so hard to do though! Because it's like a tidal wave. One little thought, feeds another little thought, and then it becomes one BIG thought and round the hamster wheel we go again!

 

That's the best way I can explain it, hope it helps some! I have more to say but I will wait till Ksol comes back before I post more, I don't want to overwhelm you guys.

 

*Gentle hugs*

[Ksol9]

Good morning/afternoon I don't have much time to write because I need to get ready for work, so will just reply to a couple of things for now. Unchainedsoul, thank you so much for writing such a sweet and inspiring post. I'm glad to hear that you're in a good place, despite having been where ksol and I are in the past. I would love to ask you, and any of the others here, how exactly you go about finding self-love? It seems like such a vague concept to me and I wouldn't even know where to start. I know you mentioned therapy, self-care, and coping strategies. I can see how this could eventually make life and relationships easier to deal with, but I'm unsure at what point it translates into loving yourself more. Please forgive my ignorance. This is something I've always struggled with.

 

Lostlove, I feel the same. When people talk about self love, I always wondered...well how exactly do I go about accomplishing that? You asked an excellent question and UnchainedSoul listed a few things that help with self care and love. Anything that has to do with doing something that makes you feel good. Even simple things. You have to just make time for yourself to do things that will benefit you and you alone. Be a little selfish with yourself. I'm learning just as you are and thanks to people like unchainedsoul and the others who frequently comment, they are helping us make baby steps.

 

Ksol, thank you for your kind words about my friendship with the guy friend. He really is an amazing person, and I was very lucky to have him in my life when I was having many difficulties with insecurities over my ex before he moved. As for whether or not men worry about the same things we do, this one certainly did! I'm not sure if that is typical of most men. His personality was very much like yours and mine, and like I said, he's an overthinker and prone to the negative. He worried a lot that she was just using him and that she didn't really love him enough. He worried that she was on her phone all the time while they were together instead of giving him full attention. He worried occassionally about guys she might be talking to. About jewelry she still had that was given to her by exes in the past. Worried that she took him for granted. Worried if she sounded tired one night and didn't want to come over. Wondered why he always had to be the first to say good morning each day, and waited a couple of times to see if she would when he didn't. He tested her with little questions sometimes to see if her responses were as they should be. Lol. It was always something, and that's just a small handful of examples. He was very vocal about all of it with me, but I don't know if most men talk to friends about this stuff. Most probably hold it inside, so it's hard to know if they are having any of the same concerns.

 

Wow, this was interesting to read. It is true that men don't have the outlets to talk and express their fears and concerns like us women do. What a lucky guy to have your friendship during that time. I'm sure that it helped them get to marriage. I'm sure some men are more emotional than others, but we are all human and I wouldn't be surprised if they worry and fear just like we do just on different levels. They also have different ways of dealing with it of course.

 

You would think this to be the case, yes. I always thought the same with mine, but he asked me a couple of times why I didn't call, like when he called after the 6 weeks NC after he moved. He said he thought I had found someone else. I was taken aback that he even asked why I didn't call, because I thought it was clear that I will never make first contact. So who knows what they're really thinking in their own heads. I would think yours would know from experience that you will not be the one to reach out, but maybe he's clueless. Or maybe he thinks if you really cared you would call - just like you're thinking. By all appearances (to him), it does seem like you want nothing to do with him. You've given no indications to the contrary, no poking, no smoke signals, nothing. Maybe by poking around, he's hoping you'll realize he wants to talk. I wish mine would poke, but he hasn't at all. Unless he's hung around online some hoping I'll see him like I was doing. There were there were those days when he was on all day long and I thought he was talking to the ex. No telling whose attention he was trying to get (highly doubtful that it was mine), but he was trying to get someone's, because he's normally never on all day long. He never did get on yesterday or last night, btw, and I feel positive that he was with new girl.

 

Those 6 weeks after he moved, was it complete silence? Today is a really bad day for me. It has been one month since we broke up and I feel like I've been in sort of a la la land this whole time, for some reason I feel like it is only today that I'm realizing this is permanent. I honestly believe he doesn't want to be held down in a relationship and no matter how curious he is about what I'm doing or not doing, I believe he doesn't want the relationship and will not change his mind about that. I really think he is just going about his life and is content with his decision. UnchainedSoul said it perfectly, if a man wants you in his life, he will move mountains to make that happen. When I really think about it, he travels quite a bit for work, why in the world would he want to throw me in that mix when he knew he already had so many problems with me and my insecurities? Why would he even want to deal with something like that?

[Ksol9]

Lostlove, Hi dear *waves* Yes I posted some of the self-care strategies I use in my last post but it's no problem! You know it's hard to practice self-love, but you know something as simple as what the therapist mentioned before "positive self-talk" works wonders! My therapist says that when you feed the brain all this negativity, it just loops it back at you and then throws you down in the dumps. The brain only knows what we feed it, and if we feed it all sorts of negative talk and self blame, I mean where does that leave us? I mean that has been a great tool. The trick is to catch yourself when you are doing it. That is so hard to do though! Because it's like a tidal wave. One little thought, feeds another little thought, and then it becomes one BIG thought and round the hamster wheel we go again!

 

That's the best way I can explain it, hope it helps some! I have more to say but I will wait till Ksol comes back before I post more, I don't want to overwhelm you guys.

 

*Gentle hugs*

 

Thank you for the suggestions in your previous post. The self talk is something my therapist suggested also and it absolutely works wonders because once you have that awareness you begin to interrupt your thoughts automatically. It's constant work and what you said about feeding your brain negativity is so very true. You always hear people talk about "thoughts become things". This is something else that never had any meaning to me. I thought it was just silly jargon but its far from that. If you put out negativity, you will attract negativity. I am a firm believer in this especially what happened with my breakups. I am convinced my negativity created alot of my problems.

[UnchainedSoul]

 

Today is a really bad day for me. It has been one month since we broke up and I feel like I've been in sort of a la la land this whole time, for some reason I feel like it is only today that I'm realizing this is permanent. I honestly believe he doesn't want to be held down in a relationship and no matter how curious he is about what I'm doing or not doing, I believe he doesn't want the relationship and will not change his mind about that. I really think he is just going about his life and is content with his decision. UnchainedSoul said it perfectly, if a man wants you in his life, he will move mountains to make that happen. When I really think about it, he travels quite a bit for work, why in the world would he want to throw me in that mix when he knew he already had so many problems with me and my insecurities? Why would he even want to deal with something like that?

 

I am really sorry you are having such a bad day. You have valid questions and they deserve valid answers. I'm afraid the only person who can answer them is him, and you know where that will get you. But you do make valid arguments. Why would a man get involved with a woman if he didn't want a relationship and was running around with these "easy to get" women? You know you could be on to something when you say he doesn't want to be held down in a serious relationship because why go after women that were already taken? That seems like a huge red flag right there. But all this is doing is the hamster wheel, we have to find some way to break you and your dear friend lostlove out of this pattern. I am glad you are at least feeling it is more permanent, it does put things into perspective, doesn't it?

 

Thank you for the suggestions in your previous post. The self talk is something my therapist suggested also and it absolutely works wonders because once you have that awareness you begin to interrupt your thoughts automatically. It's constant work and what you said about feeding your brain negativity is so very true. You always hear people talk about "thoughts become things". This is something else that never had any meaning to me. I thought it was just silly jargon but its far from that. If you put out negativity, you will attract negativity. I am a firm believer in this especially what happened with my breakups. I am convinced my negativity created alot of my problems.

 

You're quite welcome! I will go even a step further for you. Just so you see what it's like a day in my life, and some insight into who I am, I will share one of my blog posts with you on this thread. It's kind of long but stick with it. It mirrors some of what I have been saying.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11272[/ATTACH]

 

“The secret to life is to “die before you die” — and then you find that there is no death” – Eckhart Tolle. Those were the last words I heard before I shut off my audiobook and decided to write. I have been fluctuating lately, up and down the bipolar wave that I have come to find is a mixed state.I often associated mixed episodes with extreme highs and extreme lows in a short amount of time, but I am now understanding that they can be a bit more subtle.

 

I have fought with myself my whole life. My weight, my appearance, my career, and even my relationships have all been battles that I have chained myself to, and eventually whipped myself for doing it. What I mean is in each part of my life I was a masochist; crying about things that I couldn’t change and staying miserable in circumstances that I had the power to walk away from at anytime. Why do we do this? Because of labels. Something we all have and we all subject ourselves to. Do you realize that when we die, none of those labels goes with us? Maybe they will stay in the minds of those that know us once we have passed on, but do you we really care what labels are placed on us even after death?

I attempted to read, (now listening) to Eckhart Tolle’s book, The Power of Now, many times over the years, but just couldn’t get into it. I told myself it was just a bunch of hokey mumbo jumbo that really didn’t impact my life. Boy was I wrong. That last simple sentence of chapter two, “The secret to life is to die before you die, and then you find that there is no death,” hit my heartstrings in a way that not many books have done. I have read self-help and so called “spiritual” books before, and it all seemed like a bunch of New Age nonsense. But those simple words deeply impacted me.

 

I began to think about my life, and the time I actually did take it back in 2005. When I did succeed in committing suicide and was pronounced dead at the scene. In that moment, that instant, nothing had mattered. It had all become crystal clear, and all the baggage and excess weight I had been carrying around in my mind was no longer there, and there was a peace there that I haven’t been able to relive until now. Of course, the doctors had locked me up in a mental institution and pumped me full of so many drugs that I was basically comatosed for a year, so I never was able to really reflect and revisit what had happened. Sure I thought about it, but I was always fearful that if I thought about it too much, I would fall back into that depressed state and find myself there again.

 

But to actually do it. Now. To actually die before I die, in this present moment, after actually having experienced death — I find myself in a state of awareness that can’t be classified as mania, but just as peace. I feel connected now, and whatever was ailing me these past few months don’t seem as big anymore.

 

I am desolate. Since quitting my last job, I am unsure how I am going to make it to the end of the month without starving or God forbid ask my folks for help. I have been never one to ask for help, even when I am down to my last dollar. But none of that matters, because somehow, I don’t know how, things will work themselves out. I guess I am giving myself some sort of false hope, because I KNOW I will eventually run out of money, but that doesn’t concern me. I KNOW that I desperately need another job to get through February but that doesn’t concern me. What matters is here, now, I have dinner waiting for me, I have someone in my life whom I love that I will call in less than an hour, and that life isn’t so bad. Whether or not it’s mania or depression, bipolar doesn’t have to rule my life and dictate my actions.

 

Too many times people have let their illness control them, rulethem, govern them. We forget that we are here NOW, right NOW, living, breathing, with food in our bellies and a roof over our heads being able to come on the internet and read my silly blog post. Or you could be fortunate, (where so many are not), to have an app on your phone where you can read this. But if you are reading this, I want you to know that enlightenment comes from being kind to yourself, building relationships instead of abandoning them, doing something small like taking a shower or burning a candle. It is not some magic thing that I found in Eckhart Tolle’s book. All the book did was remind me of the illusion I was living and how things really aren’t as bad as they seem.

Look, joy is something most people never feel. When watching a video today on Simon Sineck’s views on millennials, I was faced with a great truth. He said that most millennials will never experience joy in their life. Whether it be because they live in a world of instant gratification or constant disappointment is beyond me, but I can certainly identify with that, and if I could speak to Simon Sineck I would tell him that it’s not just millennials who feel that way. We as a society have lost our ability to actually find joy, and it is so very sad.

 

So today, do yourself a favor, find some joy. As stupid as that may sound, just find some. Eat your favorite ice cream, watch your favorite show on Netflix, call up a friend you haven’t spoken to in ages just to see how they are. But DO something. Get off your butt and stop whining about your life. I have been doing way too much whining lately, and I am aware of it. Now it’s time to treat myself to a little joy. I hope you can too.

 

Stay tuned. xoxoxo

[Ksol9]

Thank you Unchained for sharing your blog post. In between my crying, I'm trying to type. I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you for writing....especially since I'm having such a horrible time right now. You came to this thread in just the right time. I'm going to take a little breather and get myself together before I come back to write more. I'm in so much pain and I don't know why? It's not worth it and there is so much more to life than this. He's not suffering. He's not going through any pain. He's living his life, so why shouldn't I?

 

I'll be back in a bit to write more. Thank you again! Your writing is excellent!

[UnchainedSoul]

I didn't mean for you to cry! I thought my blog post would help not make you feel worse! Now I just feel like all sorts of awful. You are in pain because I think you are finally letting go. All these positive steps you are doing, all these life decisions you are making to enrich your life are finally hitting home. Also, I think some of the material you have been reading is probably sinking in as well. Clarity and realization don't come with ease, you have to walk through fire to breathe the fresh air again. One step at a time grasshopper. Yes, come back, I am here. Write down every thought that is going through your head. He isn't feeling this. Like I said earlier, if he WAS where you are at now, he would pick up the goddam phone and do something. But he isn't. And he won't.

 

No more making excuses for the kids to text you, no more stuff needing to get moved out, just silence. And it is deafening. But it's the cold hard reality that you were dealt. This pain you are feeling, this hamster wheel you are on will keep going round and round until YOU find some WAY to let this man go. It's so hard, I know. I have been there, god knows how many times. The waiting, the wondering, the checking Facebook, the crying thinking he is with another woman, all exercises in futility. If you need to shake yourself a couple of times, hell slap yourself, I would do it!