How much does a guy's body affect his attractiveness?

[TMifune]

Yeah, us ugly guys better make with the big paychecks or get the eff out of the gene pool.

 

I mean what kind of ridiculous sub-human waste doesn't manufacture insane levels of confidence out of systematic rejection?

[Realitynut]

Oh....believe me...I rejected him MANY times on the dating sites.....even tho POF had him rated as my #1. Then when I met him in real life...I had no idea it was the same guy...but he knew it was me.

 

Met him in real life....zip-lining at a meetup. Then other get togethers. He joined one meetup to go to Chicago...even tho he hates Chicago, only because I was going. It was a hiking group we belong to. Then we got into paddling. He also backpacks.

 

He backpacked with his bros at the Isle of Royale for a week last year, and going back this year. We kayaked 92 miles in 5 days last year. He's doing that again this year, and he's going on another week long kayaking trip. He also hikes every Sunday morning with his bro at a state park. 5 miles in 1 1/4 hours. He also LOVES off track/dirt biking. He's strong as an ox....and those bow legs are all muscle. He just has a big belly he has been trying to get rid of....and it's sticking good! And it's not cuz of beer!!! lol

 

So even tho I wouldn't date him cuz he looked fat...also a VERY round face and chin....he is in MUCH better shape than many men I meet. My ex husband LOOKS good....and doesn't do sh*t for exercise....and never did.

 

So we can't always judge a book by it's cover. And I hope they don't judge me too harshly....

 

Everyone says that I've set the bar so high for him, that he'll never find anyone better.

Thing is....he really doesn't WANT anyone. He thinks he does...but he wants that 'once a week gf'......ugh

[IAmFCA]

Yeah, us ugly guys better make with the big paychecks or get the eff out of the gene pool.

 

I mean what kind of ridiculous sub-human waste doesn't manufacture insane levels of confidence out of systematic rejection?

 

Rejection hurts less when we realize it's based on stuff that has nothing to do with us. I get rejected.all the time, including by my ex, for being short, having muscular legs, not wearing makeup, not having sex, being not rail thin, being darker than some, etc etc. It hurts, also its too much to worry about and self destructive. I am wbo I am, and other people don't get to tell me whether I am worthy.

[IAmFCA]

Yeah, us ugly guys better make with the big paychecks or get the eff out of the gene pool.

 

I mean what kind of ridiculous sub-human waste doesn't manufacture insane levels of confidence out of systematic rejection?

 

By the way, we don't want your money or your power. We want your character and your affection. The healthy women aren't looking for men to solve a problem for them. We want someone whom we respect to have our backs. You don't need money or looks for that.

[TMifune]

By the way, we don't want your money or your power. We want your character and your affection. The healthy women aren't looking for men to solve a problem for them. We want someone whom we respect to have our backs. You don't need money or looks for that.

 

Okay, let's slide by the part where you speak for all women. You say you don't need money or looks for that......

 

I don't pursue men on line who look overweight. I just don't. On line is for getting what I want, and I need to screen based on something else there'd be too many people to think about. Looks matter to me more now than ever. I feel like, why. I'm single probably because I'm an AND dater- I want looks and brains and character. I'm okay with that.

 

But 'we' don't care about looks even though they matter more than ever, and they were listed first before brains and character. Perhaps you can understand my confusion when you claim character and affection are paramount after you literally just got done explaining how important looks were to you? And you reject at even the appearance of being overweight in a photograph online. Maybe they're not really overweight, just photograph poorly or something. Who knows....but it's not about the reality, it's about the image isn't it? And that proves, that it doesn't really matter how much character they have, or how much affection they're capable of showing.

 

Look, I'm sure character does matter. The point is that you don't even get through the door to display your character unless you've got the looks first. And that would really prove that looks are actually the higher value, wouldn't it?

[itsallgrand]

Like a few others have mentioned, fitness is attractive for several reasons and not all of them have to do with physical appreciation. I think it's wonderful what you are doing and it can only be a win. Keep it up and shine!!

 

Also, not all of us females are adverse to approaching ... And you don't have to be a super stunner. Being warm and easy to talk to has often drawn me towards certain men.

[John John]

Rejection hurts less when we realize it's based on stuff that has nothing to do with us. I get rejected.all the time, including by my ex, for being short, having muscular legs, not wearing makeup, not having sex, being not rail thin, being darker than some, etc etc. It hurts, also its too much to worry about and self destructive. I am wbo I am, and other people don't get to tell me whether I am worthy.

 

That's all fine and dandy, but it sucks if (or, at least you're made to FEEL as if this is the case - perhaps this is my fault, and why I'm in therapy) you possess a trait that is universally (or near universally) disdained by the opposite sex. I'm not trying to belittle your feelings on your issues that you described, but so many men don't care about those things. I know what you look like, ITIC, and you're super attractive. A man is not going to care that your legs are muscular or that you're short (I'm shocked to even hear that you think your ex rejected you for some of these things). I also prefer women who don't wear makeup, always have.

 

Height is different. It's the closest thing we have to a universally desired trait. It's almost more of a pre-requisite. 5'8" ain't that bad, but feeling like I'm just the bare minimum height that soooooo many women will be ok with kinda sucks. I recognize that a lot of this is MY hangup, and I'm working on it. It just sucks...because I'm the kind of guy who pushes through ANYTHING (sh*t people on here could never even conceive). But...can't push through or change this.

[IAmFCA]

That's all fine and dandy, but it sucks if (or, at least you're made to FEEL as if this is the case - perhaps this is my fault, and why I'm in therapy) you possess a trait that is universally (or near universally) disdained by the opposite sex. I'm not trying to belittle your feelings on your issues that you described, but so many men don't care about those things. I know what you look like, ITIC, and you're super attractive. A man is not going to care that your legs are muscular or that you're short (I'm shocked to even hear that you think your ex rejected you for some of these things). I also prefer women who don't wear makeup, always have.

 

Height is different. It's the closest thing we have to a universally desired trait. It's almost more of a pre-requisite. 5'8" ain't that bad, but feeling like I'm just the bare minimum height that soooooo many women will be ok with kinda sucks. I recognize that a lot of this is MY hangup, and I'm working on it. It just sucks...because I'm the kind of guy who pushes through ANYTHING (sh*t people on here could never even conceive). But...can't push through or change this.

 

JJ, I think you're great looking, too, so right back atcha. Re the ex, he stupidly said once, A man wants someone whose legs are smaller than.his, you know? [Dxxk] As a former track and field athlete, I have never once had skinny legs nor have I ever hurt my knees. I didn't pursue college track because I had learned to be self conscious of my muscles.

 

The man for me likes my strength. Stupid ex is an idiot. I have learned to embrace the way I'm made and not to internalize opinions like his. OTOH, I would attract more men if I were stretched out a couple more inches. That's not possible, so I may as well find the good in how I'm made. I drive small cars, have enjoyed sleeping in small spaces, and angling through crowds. All advantages of my stature.

 

My question for you is: what do you gain by hanging onto the height issue? I have an.idea...

[John John]

JJ, I think you're great looking, too, so right back atcha. Re the ex, he stupidly said once, A man wants someone whose legs are smaller than.his, you know? [Dxxk] As a former track and field athlete, I have never once had skinny legs nor have I ever hurt my knees. I didn't pursue college track because I had learned to be self conscious of my muscles.

 

The man for me likes my strength. Stupid ex is an idiot. I have learned to embrace the way I'm made and not to internalize opinions like his. OTOH, I would attract more men if I were stretched out a couple more inches. That's not possible, so I may as well find the good in how I'm made. I drive small cars, have enjoyed sleeping in small spaces, and angling through crowds. All advantages of my stature.

 

My question for you is: what do you gain by hanging onto the height issue? I have an.idea...

 

Your ex is an ass. As long as she's at least mostly in shape (which I know you are - you're like me, too hard working not to be), I don't care if a girl has muscular legs (just not the bodybuilder type!). And height is very, very rarely a "thing" when a man is considering a woman.

 

I know, I know. I have to let go of it. My therapist told me last night one of the hardest things to change/get through is change the way we feel on the inside about certain things. And I just feel that it "ruins" me, in a way. But whatever. I'll manage. What the hell else choice do I have?

[TMifune]

Like a few others have mentioned, fitness is attractive for several reasons and not all of them have to do with physical appreciation.

 

I call BS. Those other "reasons" are really rationalizations. Nobody sits around fantasizing about how "healthy" their dream lover will be. There are other positives to being fit, but those positives don't really apply to attraction.

 

Hugh Jackman with late-stage cancer is going to get more sexual desire from women than John Goodman with a cardiology and general health screening that pronounces he's really in pretty good health and has 60 years left to live.

 

I'll believe women are really attracted to the "heatlh" and not the physique of fit men when I see women getting all hot and bothered by the video of a really healthy colonoscopy.

[John John]

I think the only other reason women are attracted to fitness isn't so much health but that it shows dedication (and that fit men are probably better in bed). Having a good body takes hard work and dedication. And I do it for myself only. If I were doing it for women, I wouldn't have made it this far.

[TMifune]

Your ex is an ass. As long as she's at least mostly in shape (which I know you are - you're like me, too hard working not to be), I don't care if a girl has muscular legs (just not the bodybuilder type!). And height is very, very rarely a "thing" when a man is considering a woman.

 

I know, I know. I have to let go of it. My therapist told me last night one of the hardest things to change/get through is change the way we feel on the inside about certain things. And I just feel that it "ruins" me, in a way. But whatever. I'll manage. What the hell else choice do I have?

 

I don't think your problem is your height. You get dates.

 

Are you anything in real life with women like you are here? That is to say do you have to go out of your way to say things like "Please don't get offended with me for sharing my experience as a man?" Do you have to hide who you are an how you feel because you're afraid a woman will take it the wrong way....or even take it the right way but get upset about when it wasn't meant to be upsetting?

[John John]

I don't think your problem is your height. You get dates.

 

Are you anything in real life with women like you are here? That is to say do you have to go out of your way to say things like "Please don't get offended with me for sharing my experience as a man?" Do you have to hide who you are an how you feel because you're afraid a woman will take it the wrong way....or even take it the right way but get upset about when it wasn't meant to be upsetting?

 

Thank you.

 

Generally, no. I was raised to be very polite, and I am very polite, friendly and outgoing in real life. Women at work love me (but not in that way - I'm talking about co-workers, married women, etc.). I speak my mind. I'm always respectful, but if I like a woman, I escalate. I don't make excuses or apologize for no reason.

 

Also...no one knows my struggles except for me and you guys on here. And it's not a thing of "oh, you don't hide it as well as you think you do." Trust me...I do. I'm an expert at that, and it only comes out when I've known someone for quite a while.

 

On here, I'm much more careful because, since it's just an online forum (where we can't see each others' "delivery" on what we're saying), you can't properly gauge someone's tone. And I've noticed that some women on here (won't mention any names) are ultra quick to jump on us for anything that sounds even remotely (or, they misconstrue it as such or put words in our mouths) "anti-female" or the dreaded "misogynistic." And you might have noticed, I don't take that sh*t lying down. I'll (respectfully) fight back. I'm not a misogynist, and some women on here need to open their minds up, remove the chips from their shoulders, step into the 2010s, and recognize that sh*t isn't easy for men either (it's actually harder for men, in certain ways, but we're getting off topic, and I'll stop here).

[IAmFCA]

I call BS. Those other "reasons" are really rationalizations. Nobody sits around fantasizing about how "healthy" their dream lover will be. There are other positives to being fit, but those positives don't really apply to attraction.

 

Hugh Jackman with late-stage cancer is going to get more sexual desire from women than John Goodman with a cardiology and general health screening that pronounces he's really in pretty good health and has 60 years left to live.

 

I'll believe women are really attracted to the "heatlh" and not the physique of fit men when I see women getting all hot and bothered by the video of a really healthy colonoscopy.

 

Wrong.

 

This woman wants health, and sex, for as many years as possible. I have experience with death, cancer, and with ED as a result of atherosclerosis and/or COPD. Never ever again if I can help it - not because one can't have great sex other ways - to the contrary. Rather, because it reminds me of a body not well cared for, and I know what that means as we get older.

 

Also, its easier on me. If you want steak and cake 3x a week, I'm going to eat it too. If you want to sleep in, I'll get restless. If you are fit, we can do anything. I like that flexibility.

[IAmFCA]

Your ex is an ass. As long as she's at least mostly in shape (which I know you are - you're like me, too hard working not to be), I don't care if a girl has muscular legs (just not the bodybuilder type!). And height is very, very rarely a "thing" when a man is considering a woman.

 

I know, I know. I have to let go of it. My therapist told me last night one of the hardest things to change/get through is change the way we feel on the inside about certain things. And I just feel that it "ruins" me, in a way. But whatever. I'll manage. What the hell else choice do I have?

 

I couldn't agree more re ex.

 

For your consideration,.JJ: Height is the whipping boy that permits you to "fail". (I don't believe in that word.) If height weren't an obstacle, then what excuse would you have?

 

Of course, we all fail. It's a necessary pathway to success. We succeed by standing naked to the world as we are. It forces us to win using stengths that are particular to us in mix and application.

 

So, I say, embrace the fact that you aren't perfect. Its It's okay to whiff sometimes. You are enough as you are, as is, and will win as soon as you have the courage to step.out on a limb and believe in yourself.

 

Sorry, I know you do that in many ways, nonetheless...

[itsallgrand]

I call BS. Those other "reasons" are really rationalizations. Nobody sits around fantasizing about how "healthy" their dream lover will be. There are other positives to being fit, but those positives don't really apply to attraction.

 

Hugh Jackman with late-stage cancer is going to get more sexual desire from women than John Goodman with a cardiology and general health screening that pronounces he's really in pretty good health and has 60 years left to live.

 

I'll believe women are really attracted to the "heatlh" and not the physique of fit men when I see women getting all hot and bothered by the video of a really healthy colonoscopy.

 

 

I can only speak for myself. I don't think I'm rationalizing anything here. I own my animal lust and am not saying it isn't a factor in it because it is. But there are other aspects to a man being fit that turn me on and that I appreciate and look for in a partner/lover. Or even just appreciate and am drawn to from people in general. The others mentioned some of it. If you want me explain more , I can. But it does go beyond just looking good for me.

[John John]

I couldn't agree more re ex.

 

For your consideration,.JJ: Height is the whipping boy that permits you to "fail". (I don't believe in that word.) If height weren't an obstacle, then what excuse would you have?

 

Of course, we all fail. It's a necessary pathway to success. We succeed by standing naked to the world as we are. It forces us to win using stengths that are particular to us in mix and application.

 

So, I say, embrace the fact that you aren't perfect. Its It's okay to whiff sometimes. You are enough as you are, as is, and will win as soon as you have the courage to step.out on a limb and believe in yourself.

 

Sorry, I know you do that in many ways, nonetheless...

 

Thanks for the very kind words ITIC

 

You are right - I do believe in myself in many ways. Or else, I wouldn't have made it this far. I guess years of OLD, combined with sh*t you see online (including here on ENA) has just given me a complex. It's always bugged me, but I feel like dating just makes it worse. I recognize a lot of this is on me...but it's an issue for a lot of men. So while I take responsibility for most of this, I don't think it's fair to put it entirely on me. There's a reason men consistently complain about this (at least, for those to whom the issue applies). I know it doesn't bother every man with this issue but it bothers a lot of us, and it's not like we woke up and just decided "I'm going to have a complex about this, I'm going to walk around feeling inadequate/"ruined." The world has a nice way of telling some us that we are inadequate for sh*t we didn't choose and can't fix. I know, I know, "it says more about you for caring," but it's easier said than done to not care. Maybe it's just because I wasn't "born with" super indestructible confidence like some people apparently are.

 

All I will say is that I'm trying and will continue to do so. I'm not the giving up kind.

[IAmFCA]

Thanks for the very kind words ITIC

 

You are right - I do believe in myself in many ways. Or else, I wouldn't have made it this far. I guess years of OLD, combined with sh*t you see online (including here on ENA) has just given me a complex. It's always bugged me, but I feel like dating just makes it worse. I recognize a lot of this is on me...but it's an issue for a lot of men. So while I take responsibility for most of this, I don't think it's fair to put it entirely on me. There's a reason men consistently complain about this (at least, for those to whom the issue applies). I know it doesn't bother every man with this issue but it bothers a lot of us, and it's not like we woke up and just decided "I'm going to have a complex about this, I'm going to walk around feeling inadequate/"ruined."

 

All I will say is that I'm trying and will continue to do so. I'm not the giving up kind

 

Phooey.

 

How you think of yourself and the obstacles you see is entirely on you.

 

Im a hard ass on this point.

 

Yes, 5 8 is an obstacle. I acknowledge your truth about that. People get stuck with crap like that as you know - racism, sexism, classism are all rampant, frankly. I'm a woman - can't even go running at night without extra anxiety or sticking to the big roads. Gotta pay more for housing so it's safer, higher up. Can't get drunk without my friends to keep me safe. Can't drag a guy home without losing him as a ltr propsect, although the reverse is less often the case. And don't get me started about office crap.

 

So yeah, height sucks. You know this, I know this. Its not as tall an obstacle as other things, unless you let it be such.

 

You're taller than Tom cruise and have a better personality. #Winning.

[John John]

You're taller than Tom cruise and have a better personality. #Winning.

 

Just made my day ITIC. I've been told many times that I look like him. Part of me loves it, and part of me (Scientology, etc.) hates it! hahaha

[IAmFCA]

Just made my day ITIC. I've been told many times that I look like him. Part of me loves it, and part of me (Scientology, etc.) hates it! hahaha

 

Yup. And your exGF from.BITD lasted longer with.You than.KP did with him, I.think.

[BrianH46]

Very important, with that said how often does a potential date see you shirtless? Getting muscular isn't easy and requires tracking macros, calories, amount of sleep and adherence to a routine. Training your physical body requires mental fortitude and dedication. Its admirable and attractive in both sexes in my opinion.

[Sportster2005]

Yeah, us ugly guys better make with the big paychecks or get the eff out of the gene pool.

 

I mean what kind of ridiculous sub-human waste doesn't manufacture insane levels of confidence out of systematic rejection?

 

Confidence is paradoxical for sure. To get it, you have to have it. I find though you just need a small victory to turn things around. More victories more confidence, which leads to more victories that leads to more confidence. And then boom. It just stops. You start to lose battles, and that erodes your confidence, which leads to more loses, which leads to more erosion of confidence. It goes both ways.

[Sportster2005]

OP, if you line up 10 different women and ask them to look at a guy and evaluate just his physical appearance, you will get 10 different opinions that cover the whole range from "omg he is a 10" to "ugh...yuck he is a 0". My point is that every individual woman has her tastes and preferences.

 

I don't think so. If he's good looking, tall and muscular the majority of the 10 will evaluate him positively. If he's unfit, unattractive and not well kept the majority of the 10 will evaluate him negatively. Preference isn't as unique and individual as we think. People generally prefer good looking fit people.

 

There are some things you can change, and some you can't. But if you want to appeal to more people be fit and look after yourself. Confidence is great. But people notice your looks first. And the good looking guy/girl simply as more opportunity to meet others and demonstrate that confidence.

 

Your advice sounds more like how to be nice and pleasant. That will make people like you. But I don't think it will do much to attract women. I engage people all the time and am very polite. I make people feel good about themselves. That's great for making friends. But it has nothing to do with attracting women. IMHO.

[Sportster2005]

Phooey.

 

How you think of yourself and the obstacles you see is entirely on you.

 

Im a hard ass on this point.

 

 

You said a few posts back you wouldn't date someone shorter than you. How's that on someone else? It's not an obstacle to overcome, it's your criteria and you won't budge from it.

 

I'm in trouble now.

[John John]

You said a few posts back you wouldn't date someone shorter than you. How's that on someone else? It's not an obstacle to overcome, it's your criteria and you won't budge from it.

 

I'm in trouble now.

 

This doesn't affect you and I as much because were not that short. We're like low average lol slightly short, perhaps.

 

I think almost all women don't want to date someone shorter than them, and high heels are very important to many women too (don't get me started lol). The hard (somehat arbitrary) cutoff seems to be about 5'7/5'8". Below 5'7", and you'll see many 5'1" women rejecting the poor guy when at, say, 5'6", he's still plenty tall for her.

 

Height is probably the most important component of attraction to 9/10 women, yet very few are willing to admit it because they're trying to be politically correct and not be mean (which I understand). It's almost like a basic indicator of manliness or lack thereof in their eyes (even though I'm very...manly in other ways ). That's what hurts sometimes. But their loss...and attraction isn't always fair.

 

ITIC, for the record, this isn't directed at you, this is a general comment Im still taller than you in heels hehe so we're good 8)