Operation Finding Girlfriend

[Almira23]

Bigspoon, you may have mentioned it before, but is this restraining order permanent or temporary?

 

Have you consulted a lawyer to see what your options are in this situation?

[TheSpoon2Big]

Bigspoon, you may have mentioned it before, but is this restraining order permanent or temporary?

 

Have you consulted a lawyer to see what your options are in this situation?

 

It's permanent. In my state, I have to wait a minimum of 2 years before I could file a motion to get the order dismissed. It isn't easy to do, and of course they advise hiring an attorney. But at least I guess in 2 years I could come back to the court with an attorney and show why the order is no longer necessary, provided no violations or contact has occurred, which I assure God himself will not happen. I could do the paperwork myself, but it'd probably be best to talk to an attorney. I talked to a few before I went to court, and no lawyer would take a case on such short notice (1 week), and the average fee(s) are around $5000.

 

So maybe in 2yrs I'll save up enough money for an attorney and continue with my therapy and have some kind of documentation to show the judge that I have gotten "better", and that my ex is under no threat or fear for her safety etc.

 

However, that would mean me seeing her again in court in 2 years, which I don't want to do. It was hard enough seeing her again this time. It's a lose lose, but I'd rather have it off my record. I'm an avid outdoorsman in Colorado. I am ex military, I have many law enforcement and military friends who are responsible gun owners and collectors, and now I cannot legally be apart of that, which sucks. But more importantly, I don't want this coming up on my record if I'm searching for employment (I'm not, I love my job and company), or if I'm looking for a new apartment to live in for example. Or better yet, say in two years I'm involved with someone romantically, and then I have to tell them "Yea btw, I have to go to court if I want this order dismissed".

[FlashEng1]

It's permanent. In my state, I have to wait a minimum of 2 years before I could file a motion to get the order dismissed. It isn't easy to do, and of course they advise hiring an attorney. But at least I guess in 2 years I could come back to the court with an attorney and show why the order is no longer necessary, provided no violations or contact has occurred, which I assure God himself will not happen. I could do the paperwork myself, but it'd probably be best to talk to an attorney. I talked to a few before I went to court, and no lawyer would take a case on such short notice (1 week), and the average fee(s) are around $5000.

 

So maybe in 2yrs I'll save up enough money for an attorney and continue with my therapy and have some kind of documentation to show the judge that I have gotten "better", and that my ex is under no threat or fear for her safety etc.

 

However, that would mean me seeing her again in court in 2 years, which I don't want to do. It was hard enough seeing her again this time. It's a lose lose, but I'd rather have it off my record. I'm an avid outdoorsman in Colorado. I am ex military, I have many law enforcement and military friends who are responsible gun owners and collectors, and now I cannot legally be apart of that, which sucks. But more importantly, I don't want this coming up on my record if I'm searching for employment (I'm not, I love my job and company), or if I'm looking for a new apartment to live in for example. Or better yet, say in two years I'm involved with someone romantically, and then I have to tell them "Yea btw, I have to go to court if I want this order dismissed".

 

Perspective, mentality, focus.

 

At 31 years old, you can turn 33/34 and this all be some story of a guy you once knew/heard about called BigSpoon; but he certainly doesn't have to be you. We all hit pot holes and bumps in the road along our journey through life in many different ways. Even those in prison serving life sentences find ways to readjust and become a new person (not everyone obviously). Big deal man. This year you don't get to go hunting with your friends because of a stupid decision you made X years back that resulted in a bad relationship and unfortunate circumstances. The why's and who's don't matter. Let's start to own up to our past, while setting up the right mentality in the present so that you're living the future you want, deserve, and dream of.

 

Thinking factually (and .. sanely?) there's no way you should meet a woman, date her, get in a relationship, and talk home buying or gun purchasing or any life changing events that causes you to bring up this restraining order this fast. Spend the two years WORKING ON YOU! They will FLY BY! It'll be some silly blip on the radar that the only pain you'd go through, is the memory of it all, but nothing tangible to bring any further, real pain. Right now the pain is real because you literally can't do something because of your past.... so fix it. Put your head down, put away the dating apps, leave women alone long enough to FIX your mess ups. Consider yourself at rock bottom before you actually hit rock bottom, and start working your way back up. Break down the expected costs, time, and workflow that you need to get taken care of the paperwork to dismiss or expunge, or modify, or terminate the RO. It can be done! There's only one thing this system wants from everyone: their money. So find out how much ($5k for example) and break down how many months, weeks, paychecks it will take to build up and knock it out.

 

I know it's all easier said than done. But just know, the sooner you tackle and address what's in front of you and how it's affecting the quality of life you want to live, the sooner the future BigSpoon will come out and thank you for all the work and fighting in the trenches that it took to take care of it. Less excuse making and depressive thoughts or explanations of it, and more planning and talk of actions being made to take care of it. You deserve it man.

 

Your life isn't ruined or over.. And in two years when you do have to see her, it will be for 4 or 5 hours, one time. You won't even have to look at her. Look at your attorney and talk to him only. You'll be okay man. You're dreading over the what-if's and "thought ofs" of the distant, untold future -- the same type of poisonous thinking that's messing you up in your relationships as well. Spend your solo time learning to balance the two (thought vs action. head in the clouds vs living in reality. what ifs vs what is).

[Fudgie]

BigSpoon,

 

I've been on this forum a while and have read your threads before (including the start of this one) but have never really commented until now because I wasn't sure I had any real good advice for you. I think I may now.

 

Alright, so, like Ms Darcy, I think you could really benefit from some therapy (can your local VA chapter cover any of this or at least make it a lot more affordable to you??) and such prior to dating again. I really do. That said, if you decide to continue dating, I just wanted to offer some insights.

 

I read this journal and I couldn't help but notice that while you said that you were seeking/attracted to feminine, feminine-energy women, you seem to have met and gone out with women who I wouldn't necessarily describe as such. They kind of controlled when you two were meeting, what you were doing, etc. They held the reigns. You felt like you were investing more in the relationship and caring more than them and that seems like a consistent theme here.

 

The good news is that you have already identified what you want: a woman who is feminine, perhaps will defer to you most of the time, not dominating, etc. But somewhere, somehow, there is a disconnect because you CONSISTENTLY are not getting what you want. Why is that? Only you can answer that, I don't know you and I don't know how you're acting/presenting yourself but I have a suspicion that your tendency to cling, express insecurities, fish for compliments, and other behaviors is sabotaging you in finding the sort of woman that you want.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm "hetero-normalizing" here but I do believe in many relationships, both straight as well as gay, there is a balance and partners compliment each other in their characteristics. Let me give you an example. I'm female and it's taken me a while but I recognize that I have some masculine characteristics in my personality. While I do cook/house chores, I am bad with birthdays/anniversaries, I'm kind of bad at sentimental gifts, I'm sad I often act angry before I act sad (if I even act sad), I'm messy, I can be kind of detached/aloof, etc. My boyfriend is way better at all of these things, knows how to say things tactfully to me (and others), and is more romantic and sentimental and I like that. I balance him out and he balances me out.

 

Thing is, if you're seeking feminine girls while you're displaying these feminine characteristics (which, btw, I don't think are truly YOU, I think it's a result of you struggling with PTSD/other emotional issues, insecurity, depression), then you're not going to do well. But I do feel that if you worked on yourself and got back to a normal, healthy baseline where you're not plagued with anxiety/loneliness/insecurity/rush "gotta find someone ASAP!!!", then you would NOT only feel a lot better in your day to day life, but you'd be way more likely to find the girl of your dreams. Because you would be more secure, more laid back, and would display more masculine characteristics. And that will attract what you want. And it has to be natural, it can't be faked either.

 

I hope this has been helpful to you.

 

As for the restraining order, I encho FlashEng1's advice. 2 years, 2 productive years, for you will fly by. Don't worry about the hunting - you can always go within the next couple years. I like to hunt too and you know what, I didn't get a single damn turkey this year during the earlier turkey season. Maybe I will in the fall but if not, hey, there is always next year. You're in your 30s...It's not like you're old and you're worrying that your knees will pop off before you get another chance to go. You have plenty of time.

 

I'm really glad you can put in a motion to dismiss the order after the 2 year mark and I really encourage you to do that. Don't worry about the hunting/telling a future girlfriend. You can just dismiss it when the time comes, whether you're single or not, and move on with your life. Unless you're planning to move/change jobs within that time (it doesn't sound like you are) then it sounds like you're largely okay and you can ride this out. I'm sorry this happened to you.

[Ms Darcy]

The good news is that you have already identified what you want: a woman who is feminine, perhaps will defer to you most of the time, not dominating, etc. But somewhere, somehow, there is a disconnect because you CONSISTENTLY are not getting what you want. Why is that? Only you can answer that, I don't know you and I don't know how you're acting/presenting yourself but I have a suspicion that your tendency to cling, express insecurities, fish for compliments, and other behaviors is sabotaging you in finding the sort of woman that you want.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm "hetero-normalizing" here but I do believe in many relationships, both straight as well as gay, there is a balance and partners compliment each other in their characteristics. Let me give you an example. I'm female and it's taken me a while but I recognize that I have some masculine characteristics in my personality. While I do cook/house chores, I am bad with birthdays/anniversaries, I'm kind of bad at sentimental gifts, I'm sad I often act angry before I act sad (if I even act sad), I'm messy, I can be kind of detached/aloof, etc. My boyfriend is way better at all of these things, knows how to say things tactfully to me (and others), and is more romantic and sentimental and I like that. I balance him out and he balances me out.

 

I talk a lot about masculine/feminine dynamic in relationships because it's helpful to understand. I mentioned that balance in Fudgie's journal, but I also think there are a couple of other journalists who are clearly more masculine energy with more feminine energy men. Like the Five Love Languages, the Myers Briggs, etc, it's a good way too understand the joys and struggles of one's relationship.

 

But I think the key is that the masculine/feminine dynamic is a bit of a moot point for him because what's really most important is a) turning it around in the next couple of years as Flash says and b) getting himself to a healthy baseline as you say.

 

And then he's just gotta go through some normal bumps to start to figure out the "who am I compatible with" piece. Basically, "becoming the right person" to find the right person.

 

But that's just my 2 cents.

[Fudgie]

I agree, Ms. Darcy. I think taking some time off would be good for him, get some therapy, get meds adjusted, etc. I myself needed a medication change a while ago and it was really, really helpful to me. I went from feeling very anxious to the point of feeling suicidal to feeling much better and more like myself. I get anxious from time to time but it's manageable now.

 

My advice more applies if he continues to date or after he takes a break and goes back into dating...but I'm hoping he will take a break.

[TheSpoon2Big]

Flash, Fudgie, and Darcy, thank you all. I read your posts when you posted them and reflected. I agree that I've displayed what some might perceive as more "feminine" dynamics as a result of unresolved issues. Then again, I know my most recent ex (the one of 2yrs, the restraining order one), was either extremely feminine and/or I was less "insecure" back then? Although when I think back to when she and I first met, I was posting on here constantly questioning her behavior etc. She became very feminine in our relationship, in whatever traditional sense of the role you want to believe. It was refreshing from the ex I had previous to her who was very masculine in her energy. I'm glad you brought up the dichotomy or energies. I know I've learned that I DO desire the feminine energy in a woman, it makes me much more attracted to her. I'm sure the same is true for women vice versa. Our society has become so androgynous it seems, men act so much more like women and vice versa! Who knows. I went on a few dates with a girl recently and I thought we hit it off well actually. She kept showing more and more interest in me and I wasn't putting in all of the effort or mental drain of wondering if she liked me, all that jazz. I just relaxed, was laid back, and she was even trying to arrange dates or ask when we'd see each other again, etc. She'd text me after a date, "You looked cute tonight by the way", random things like that. Then last weekend, on our Fri night date, we had dinner and a short date because she had to be up early the next morning for a 4k run. We planned to go to the mountains to an event after she got done (which was all her idea). Long story short, I never heard from her again. I waited two days, reached out to her, told her I would have appreciated a call or text or something. She said sorry. I knew she lost interest out of nowhere and I have no idea why. I got the "let's just be friends" speech. This is after multiple dates, talking virtually every night, a few kisses (etc). Lol, her last text to me was the lovely:

 

I know. I guess as much as I liked hanging out with u, I just wasn't feeling a romantic connection. I think my personality is a little too strong for u and I would end up walking over you. I still think you're a great guy, just not exactly what I'm looking for or need. When I say that I want to be your friend I actually mean it because I do like hanging out with u. I just don't want to lead u on, bc I wouldn't want anyone to lead me on if they knew they weren't feeling it

 

To which I respectively replied sorry, I'm not interested in just being friends. (I just LOVE constantly getting the "you're a great guy, you're really attractive, you're really sweet, whatever girl gets you will be lucky some day" blah blah blah speech. Gets tiring.

 

I thought a lot about what Flash said, how I could be 33/34 and be a different person or whatever, and try to put the restraining order piece of my life to bed in a legal sense. No, I don't want to be bringing that up in conversations/dating, of course not, it just weighs heavy on my heart and I judge myself really harshly.

 

Right now I'm bummed out guys. And I'm probably bummed for all the wrong reasons. Or, why I'm bummed out right now is exactly what most of you don't want me to BE bummed out about in the first place: being alone. It was exactly about 3 years ago now, to the day/time when I met my 2yr ex, the really attractive one that I obsessed over on here and moved in with, etc etc. I had this weirdly romanticized idea in my head that maybe something like that would happen again and repeat itself (in a good way) now. I'm bummed out because in two months, it will have been exactly 1 calendar year now that I've been separated/broken up with my ex. Next week will be the 1yr anniversary of our last trip together, when we went to Las Vegas for my first time but all we did was argue pretty much, even though she bought us the tickets and the trip in order to try and rekindle our relationship. I keep reflecting on how it seemed like she was trying to bring us closer together during that trip and all I did was argue with her.

 

Another thing I'm bummed out about is the loneliness factor. I don't know for sure, but on the restraining order paperwork, my ex mentioned "After my doorbell rang, I then called my boyfriend who said he would come over", so she's probably with someone "officially" now, or for some reason felt the need to write that on there, knowing I'd read it, which would have been entirely possible too, who knows. So I'm coming up on 1 year of being "alone". I've tried and dabbled and obviously fell flat on my face a handful of times as evidenced throughout this thread, and I'm getting really discouraged and down.

 

Yes, I do love my job and my boss, but it's also incredibly stressful right now and for the first time in 3 years has me thinking about looking for a new position or a new company. That would mean a background check, which raises the potential for the restraining order. I got my own apartment again finally back in May, but this summer has been miserable as the air conditioning in my building has been broken, and even when it worked it didn't really work, so at the end of my lease I'd consider moving, but then again: background check issues. So I sort of feel trapped there.

 

The lovely VA can't get me in to see me to talk about any med adjustments until the end of Oct now. So much so that I've been put into a queue of possibly being able to see a civilian doctor and the VA will cover it, if my wait times are more than 30 days out. Each day feels like dragging a heavy weight behind me, going nowhere. I have lost some desire/motivation/drive to do certain things. I do love my dog and love taking her for long walks, but that's about it. I have been eating healthier and back to working out every day, which is great, but it's not at the level of consistency I was before I met my ex or when we first started dating. I was in the best shape ever back then with my 6 pack, etc.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't experienced a "drought" this long before in my life. I haven't really ever been "single" this long before. Sure, I've had these few week - 1-2 month flings if you will, but nothing serious, nothing lasting. I KNOW what you guys are going to say, that I shouldn't be basing how I feel about myself on whether or not someone else is showing interest in me, and I know that's not right, I'm just venting. I am realizing that I feel sort of lost without something to strive towards. Even when I was with my ex, she was always encouraging me to go to my group therapy sessions and would ask me what I learned that day, etc. She'd encourage healthy eating and us going on hikes and walks together. She'd want to hold my hand or put her arm through mine when we walked the dogs together after work. Now I would give anything to just have someone to cuddle with next to in bed at night.

 

I was never this depressed before I met my ex, and one could argue I was in a "worse" situation i.e. more of a dead end job with less money in which my ex and I BOTH worked at (ex prior to recent ex, which was half the reason I left that job to find my current job).

 

I KNOW that finding someone and using that energy to propel myself forward isn't the way to go, but I'm just feeling like a walking dead end right now. I even lashed out at my nephew that I love dearly who is horrible at communication and rarely contacts anyone this past weekend because I never hear from him. I said "it's nice to hear from you every once in awhile whenever you feel like it" and he took a picture of himself flipping me off with his middle finger and texted it back to me. That was depressing.

 

Part of me knows I shouldn't be dating or thinking about it, right? But I can't get it out of my mind. I think about how rejuvenated I felt when I met my last ex and how pretty she was and how I would talk about her to everyone I knew and how I'd get all of those butterflies. I did so much to gain "approval", I know that's not right, but it gave me SOMETHING to look forward to on the weekends, SOMETHING to plan for, SOMETHING to think about. Now I'll browse through some online dating profiles and A) get discouraged because I'll send a message and get no reply. Or B) I won't have the energy to even try at all. I used to be witty and creative and fun and vibrant, now I can't think of anything to say. I feel burned out. And maybe I should just feel lucky, because ironically enough, the FIRST girl I messaged when I signed up for one of these dating websites (back in 2013) was my ex and that turned into the 2yr relationship. So I guess you can't always catch a big fish the first cast of the day, right? Yet, at some point, you start to wonder, what am I doing wrong? I know I'm attractive and I have a lot to offer. I'm not broke, I don't live in a basement, I drive a new car lol. I've had plenty of women get intimate with me, tell me how sweet I am, how great I am, blah blah blah, but no one sticks around. And I've yet to find one that I find remotely as attractive as my ex anyways.

 

So I came here to vent. No amount of working out and just trying to forget about things is helping. I'm surprised I had enough energy to write this whole thing. I've been debating it for days, but never had the time or energy. I try to read a verse of the Bible before I go to bed, if I can muster it. I don't find much solace in it. I just sort of go through the motions and stare at words on paper. Work has become a mind-numbingly repetitive gesture I do just to pass the day. Half the time, I just want to sleep endlessly and dream of something different. Usually I just wake up depressed because I have some dream of being in a loving and healthy relationship, back with an ex, and I'm not.

 

Therapy is an option again, but I just got tired of going and spending my money and feeling like the wheels were spinning. All my fault for not applying the therapy? Perhaps. I don't know. Regardless, I've been saving money as a result of not going which has reduced SOME stress, so it's like I can't win for losing, or whatever that saying is.

 

I'm off now, for now. I just want each of you to know how much I appreciate even just reading what I write. I was in a dark place past Sat, feeling depressed, and I thought back to what a few of you had said here and it helped me. So thank you.

[Ms Darcy]

So you ran off to date again, despite saying you wouldn't. Not surprising.

 

I do like that this girl was pretty straightforward in saying your feminine energy was a turn off.

[gp11a]

You are really good at self-reflection, BigSpoon - that is a great quality to have and I feel you'll do just fine. Just keep working on you and stay positive.

 

I'm trying to not date right now, either, so I'm right there with you... It is tough. I know I need to work on myself and be alone right now. Flash's message resonated with me, too, even though it was written to you... Maybe this is the best time in your life to focus on not being with someone and fix the things you want to fix about yourself. Plus, it will be an admirable story to tell a lady friend once this is all behind you!

 

Sometimes we grow the most during our darkest times.

 

Therapists might work something out with you if money is a concern - I do think it will help, especially if you are feeling lonely and need someone to talk to and help you work through these concerns! It helped me immensely.

[Fudgie]

Hi BigSpoon,

 

I think it's good that the girl was straightforward. No, this wasn't just a fluke, she didn't randomly lose attraction, this was it: I think my personality is a little too strong for u and I would end up walking over you. As Mrs. Darcy said, this is her telling you that your feminine energy was a turn-off.

 

As I said before, I really think that you could benefit from therapy to get back to a place where you're more at peace. You definitely have insecurity issues but the good news is that you can get help for this: therapy and meds. I'm sorry that you have to wait til late Oct for med adjustment, hope you can see a civilian doctor sooner than that. What about therapy? Can the VA help you with this? I know you're on a long wait list for a doctor for your medication adjustment but what about therapy? Could they get you in to see someone a LOT sooner in that case since it's therapy?

 

Disclaimer: I definitely think, 100%, you should go to therapy like yesterday and not worry about dating. I am in therapy myself and feel lots better day to day even though the sessions can be hard sometimes. I think you have SO much to gain and very little, if anything, to lose. You feeling lost is not going to be solved by finding someone. You have a biochemical imbalance that needs to be helped with meds and you also need a therapist to help you re-route some of your old thinking patterns. A girlfriend cannot do this.

 

That said...IF you absolutely insist on dating and don't want to follow that advice...

 

Worrying/asking a lot about what someone thinks of you and fishing for compliments is feminine energy. Relying on someone to push you in the right direction when you can't do that is passive, which can be lumped into feminine energy, although it's not a good trait IMO for someone to have, feminine or not. This stuck out at me: Even when I was with my ex, she was always encouraging me to go to my group therapy sessions and would ask me what I learned that day, etc. She'd encourage healthy eating and us going on hikes and walks together. Energies aside, you need to be in a place where you're motivated yourself (by whatever, whatever works for you) to do these things for yourself. Relying on a partner to push you along is not really that healthy and it's not going to net you the feminine ladies because feminine ladies don't like doing that.

 

Right now, let's assume that you can either be a "rod" (masculine energy) or a "hole" (feminine energy). I apologize in advance for my Freudian references here. Right now, you are asking for a "hole" type of women. However, due to your issues (which, btw, are totally fixable!!!) you're not acting as a "Rod", you're acting as a "hole". But that's not what the "hole" type women want. So you're at a stand still.

 

It honestly just goes back to therapy. You want a certain kind of women. You are not able to attract/keep said sort of women. You need to get back to a place where you can feel better, do better in your own life, and attract these women.

 

I truly believe you can do this.

[TheSpoon2Big]

So you ran off to date again, despite saying you wouldn't. Not surprising.

 

I do like that this girl was pretty straightforward in saying your feminine energy was a turn off.

 

So her saying " I think my personality is a little too strong for u and I would end up walking over you" means I exhibited feminine energy? I'm sorry, I'm really lost. I told you guys I wasn't acting needy/clingy/pushy/nada! I was laid back, letting her come to me, if you will. Yet even when I was NOT acting "feminine", she said she thought she'd walk all over me. Wow, that's incredible. Now I'm really confused. I can see my past behaviors being too pushy too fast too "needy" etc showing up with flowers and all that stupid stuff as "feminine", but when I depart from that behavior and am STILL called "feminine"?! Come on...

[TheSpoon2Big]

Hi BigSpoon,

 

I think it's good that the girl was straightforward. No, this wasn't just a fluke, she didn't randomly lose attraction, this was it: I think my personality is a little too strong for u and I would end up walking over you. As Mrs. Darcy said, this is her telling you that your feminine energy was a turn-off.

 

But how?! What the heck did I do wrong?! That's what I'm so confused about. I was a gentleman, I paid for our dates/meals/drinks, maybe that's why she thinks she would have walked all over me. Other than that, I don't know what I did wrong! Like I said, I wasn't pushy, I didn't act "desperate" or exhibit any of the "needy" behaviors via the last few girls I've talked to and about on here. SHE would text or call me first almost always, SHE would say "hey there's this thing up in the mountains maybe we could go together?" etc. Like, I tried to act completely 180* differently, yet my "feminine energy" was evident? She did admit that she was pretty shallow once jokingly and said "yea but at least I admit that I am".

[Fudgie]

Yes, by what that girl said, she was saying that she was turned off by you because you seemed passive/feminine. I am not this girl so I can't pinpoint what exactly but it is very possible that you may not be able to have full insight into your actions (don't feel bad, this is true for most people) and you may actually be exhibiting characteristics without knowing it. You are deeply insecure and it's possible that she sensed that somehow as you two dated. This whole scenario underscores the importance of why you need to get to a therapist and work on this.

 

I know, speaking as a woman, I can smell insecurity from a mile away, even when the guy works hard to "hide" it. It doesn't really work. It comes out in small ways. You just get a feeling early on. I wish I could fully explain it. For me, it usually became obvious when a guy was talking about his life and world views, and how he saw others, his obligations, etc. I can usually tell if someone is going to be a doormat or not. It's not as simple as just paying for her drinks/food.

 

It sounds like you did some right in what you were actively doing: not acting desperate, not blowing up her phone, not fishing for compliments - and I applaud you for that. But I hope you can see now that unless and until you get these underlying issues worked on, you're not going to find much in the way of success.

[katrina1980]

 

Just goes to show looks aren't everything to women, and women love the chase, the mystery, the Hollywood drama of falling in love with a guy who's feelings about her are unclear, etc. Women fall in love more slowly, over time, and with their ears. Men fall in love at first sight and with their eyes.

 

 

Straight from Corey Wayne, ugh.

 

That may be true for some women, but definitely NOT all.

 

Definitely not for me and other women I know.

 

If the men I ended up nexting (for pulling back and playing games) paid attention to our early exchanges and interactions, they would notice my interest level was at its highest when they showed a lot of interest in me, and I was sure (as sure as I could be at that point) of their interest and attraction to me.

 

It was when they began pulling back and playing games, and I became unclear of their interest in me, when I started to lose interest.

 

But they're not paying attention, they're too busy reading Corey Wayne or godonlyknows what other advice articles are floating around.

 

Men sure do know how to pull to gain a women's interest and attraction, but what they haven't learned is how to maintain her interest and attraction. Sad really.

 

Frankly I think all these advice books, articles, etc (Corey Wayne, PUA) are messing up guys' heads, pushing women away, and screwing up what could have been a beautiful thing.

 

But then again, maybe that's not what they want.

 

Which makes nexting these guys the right thing to do after all....for both of us.

[katrina1980]

But how?! What the heck did I do wrong?! That's what I'm so confused about. I was a gentleman, I paid for our dates/meals/drinks, maybe that's why she thinks she would have walked all over me. Other than that, I don't know what I did wrong! Like I said, I wasn't pushy, I didn't act "desperate" or exhibit any of the "needy" behaviors via the last few girls I've talked to and about on here. SHE would text or call me first almost always, SHE would say "hey there's this thing up in the mountains maybe we could go together?" etc. Like, I tried to act completely 180* differently, yet my "feminine energy" was evident? She did admit that she was pretty shallow once jokingly and said "yea but at least I admit that I am".

 

Dude I know you mean well, but yes your feminine energy was (is) evident.

 

She needs a man who is more take charge, emotionally stronger, knows what he wants and not afraid to go after it. Not afraid to tell her how he feels or what he wants.

 

Not in a sappy way, but in a straight forward matter of fact way. In a strong CONFIDENT way.

 

He doesn't sit back and allow her to do all the texting, all the calling, all the pursuing, while he reserves the right to sit back and act indifferently. That is passive, and passive is feminine energy.

 

He also doesn't read men's advice books in an attempt to figure out what to do and how not to act needy, etc.. Or how to get a women to chase him so HE avoids rejection and feels more secure.

 

That is weak and reflects insecurity.... which are huge turn offs.

[Fudgie]

I agree with katrina and I also wanted to add: many women (feminine especially) really like it when a man initiates the plans. If he asks her own, suggests dates, maybe even outright says "Hey, listen, on this day/time, there is an event/movie/play, and I'm planning to go and I'd love for you to join me. Are you free? I'll pick you up."

 

If you're just sitting there and not making the plans, not initiating ANY texts, then yeah, that is definitely more feminine energy. Feminine energy is about wanting to be PURSUED by a man, not clung to. There is a difference between initiating texts/being assertive with suggesting dates and being a Grade A clinger who texts all the time, fishes for compliments, etc.

[Coldarmy13]

I agree with what everyone else has said today. I truly believe that when you're in a bad place or weak place and not really ready to date, then we must just reek of it. It shows through no matter what. Almost every time I've met someone that actually lasted it was only when I was in a place of confidence and when I truly wasn't looking or trying to meet someone. I think there's something to that.

[Coldarmy13]

IVe been to meet someone for a few months now and nothing has really worked out at all. Common denominator is me and I'm strongly considering taking a good break from it. I must be exhibiting someone so I need to separate myself from it for long enough. I'm also mentally and or emotionally exhausted. Find myself discouraged.

[katrina1980]

IVe been to meet someone for a few months now and nothing has really worked out at all. Common denominator is me and I'm strongly considering taking a good break from it. I must be exhibiting someone so I need to separate myself from it for long enough. I'm also mentally and or emotionally exhausted. Find myself discouraged.

 

Don't beat yourself up too bad Coldarmy. I recently started dating again myself (past few months) and I find it all very exhausting too.

 

I have always been in LTRs (three since early 20s) and never experienced anything like this. All my relationships sort of flowed naturally and nearly effortlessly from the get go.

 

Times have certainly changed; I am at a loss quite frankly.

 

Anyway, breaks are good. I take them often.

 

In any event, hugs.... hope it gets better.

[Coldarmy13]

Don't beat yourself up too bad Coldarmy. I recently started dating again myself (past few months) and I find it all very exhausting too.

 

I have always been in LTRs (three since early 20s) and never experienced anything like this. All my relationships sort of flowed naturally and nearly effortlessly from the get go.

 

Times have certainly changed; I am at a loss quite frankly.

 

Anyway, breaks are good. I take them often.

 

In any event, hugs.... hope it gets better.

 

Thank you, not sure that I'm beating myself up, but as you could tell I'm probably not in the mood to put in the necessary effort right now.

 

Here's to us! Well get there.

[Ms Darcy]

I agree with what everyone else has said today. I truly believe that when you're in a bad place or weak place and not really ready to date, then we must just reek of it. It shows through no matter what. Almost every time I've met someone that actually lasted it was only when I was in a place of confidence and when I truly wasn't looking or trying to meet someone. I think there's something to that.

 

I think it's this in a nutshell. People have instincts. And this girl's instincts laid out what has been said to you for a while now. To me that means it's pretty apparent to a woman you are dating.

[Ms Darcy]

IVe been to meet someone for a few months now and nothing has really worked out at all. Common denominator is me and I'm strongly considering taking a good break from it. I must be exhibiting someone so I need to separate myself from it for long enough. I'm also mentally and or emotionally exhausted. Find myself discouraged.

 

Sorry that you are feeling down. A break might help you feel better.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I just reached out to my VA to see if they would consider helping me pay for my weekly individual therapy sessions AND group sessions, since A) the waitlist is impossibly high, B) the VA doesn't even staff PhD level psychologists really for weekly therapy, and C) I can't spend 90 min round trip driving from work to the VA and back for a 1hr therapy session for example during my work day and not have that be an issue with my employer and cause more undue stress in my life in that sphere. If the VA can help cover my expenses to see outside providers that are more flexible with my work schedule, it would be a God send and I'd be back in therapy in a heartbeat. I only ever stopped going mainly because I fell behind financially with them. Taking days off from work to go to court because your ex-girlfriend files an unnecessary restraining order on you doesn't help either.

[Fudgie]

I'm hoping you can find a therapist who is willing to work with you. I'm glad you have VA as a resource. I know the therapist I see, she has afternoon/evening hours to accommodate people who work 9-5 jobs or what have you. Would they make you go to the VA or would they fund your therapy with another local therapist, like a civilian therapist?

[TheSpoon2Big]

I agree with katrina and I also wanted to add: many women (feminine especially) really like it when a man initiates the plans. If he asks her own, suggests dates, maybe even outright says "Hey, listen, on this day/time, there is an event/movie/play, and I'm planning to go and I'd love for you to join me. Are you free? I'll pick you up."

 

If you're just sitting there and not making the plans, not initiating ANY texts, then yeah, that is definitely more feminine energy. Feminine energy is about wanting to be PURSUED by a man, not clung to. There is a difference between initiating texts/being assertive with suggesting dates and being a Grade A clinger who texts all the time, fishes for compliments, etc.

 

Fair, true. Maybe I'm not telling the whole story. I was setting times/dates and places for us to go. I was dictating the pace more than she. What I meant was that she would randomly come up with an idea, say she saw an event thing she wanted to go to. In that instance, I said "great, I'll drive and we'll leave at X time, I'll pick you up". Prior to that, when we first started hanging out, she reached out to me saying "Hey, how are you!?" And I'd respond with "Great, how are you?" and "When are you free to get together?" and she said "Tonight!" to which I said "Great, meet me at X place at 9pm". We met, had a good time, when I walked her to her car and gave her a hug goodbye, she kissed the side of my face.

 

Maybe I should back up. This girl, we met online back in May, talked a lot but plans fell through to meet up for a first date. Fast forward a few months, she hits me up out of nowhere and is putting herself out there for me to ask her out on a date and take the lead, which I did. Corey Wayne talks a lot about that; when/if a girl reaches out to you, you should take that as a sign of interest as she's putting herself in your "orbit" and then take the initiative to set a definite time/date/plan and leave it at that. It's not about playing some kind of game, it's just sticking to the facts and not getting caught up in all the emotional sappy crap, especially not so soon.

 

Can none of you girls admit that you've been attracted to men in your life who were more "mysterious" or you weren't sure if they were 100% interested in you and you kept trying or were "curious"? Maybe I'm not making sense. It's not about playing a game, it's just about not throwing yourself 100% at a girl's feet right away, throwing compliments left and right etc.

 

I get it, you guys think I am some huge walking feminine pushover or something, and I can appreciate the areas of my life that exhibit that and need to be worked on, but I am getting frustrated because you guys don't know the whole story and you seem to think that every single problem I have with all these girls is because I am not "masculine enough" or something. Corey Wayne isn't a bad guy, I like him, I've learned a lot from him. He's not disrespectful to women nor is he one of the demeaning PUAs from The Game like Mystery, etc. He gives good advice most of the time. He is consistent in his advice on interactions with women: set the time/place/date, state your intentions, be strong in your conviction, relax and make the woman feel comfortable and just be fun to be around, and let things happen naturally and don't try to force things.

 

Yes, there is a fine line between being assertive and initiating contact/suggesting dates, etc and being a stage 5 stalker. If any of you remember my old thread here 3 years ago, about my 2yr ex, I was constantly getting extremely frustrated because I WAS DOING ALL THE CHASING and it was getting exhausting. I finally expressed to her it'd be nice if she would put forth some kind of suggestion or idea or something, and she did. I get that men have to do the courting, and then it's a slippery slope to putting a girl on a pedestal. So I'm supposed to pay for every single freaking date and make every single plan with no reciprocation on her part or else I'm acting feminine. This is absurd.

 

With my ex, who was very feminine or whatever, because I was doing ALL the legwork of initiating contact, driving 1hr every weekend to see her (she lived 60mi away), paying for every single date/movie/drinks/dinner/event I was nearly going broke, we eventually had the discussion and she told me "well I like to be chased/pursued".

 

Ugh! Can any guy chime in here and see what I'm saying?

 

 

All I'm saying is all women aren't the same. Apparently, some "prefer the chase" like my ex, who admitted that she liked to be pursued, and as a few of you have said. And then some women apparently prefer NOT to be chased. I've gone through so many different girls in the course of this entire thread. I mean, there has to be a happy medium here, but it also has to be examined somewhat on a girl by girl basis. One girl might want me to call and text her first all the time, like my ex, but then other girls think if I call and text all the time they get annoyed or bothered or something, I don't know. Like literally, with my 2yr ex, from pretty much our FIRST conversation on the phone after meeting online, then our first date in person, every morning I'd text her "hey beautiful good morning have a good day!" something of the sort. Then at the end of the day before bed, I'd call and we'd talk for an hour or so. She never once objected to that and seemed to in fact enjoy it. At the time, I ACTUALLY FELT BAD and thought I'd push her away because I was always reaching out to her. In fact, there were times when I DIDN'T reach out to her and she'd be weirded out. One time she was in town for a business trip and staying at a hotel. This was relatively fresh/new in our dating and we weren't even "official" yet. She invited me over to her hotel and we hung out and then I went home. Later, she told me she didn't understand why I left and that she was expecting me to stay the night there with her. What the heck? I had no idea. I wasn't going to stay the night with her at the hotel uninvited! Heck no, especially not that soon in the relationship. And in retrospect, I exhibited many insecure behaviors with her, yet she continued to date me and eventually "fell in love" with me. What does that say about me, or what does that say about her? If insecurities can be smelled a mile away?

 

I can't win for losing/trying. One girl might want me to do all the chasing, and the next girl might be like "why is this guy calling me every day?". I've had both things happen.

 

And lastly, for the record, as Corey Wayne would recommend, if a girl tells you she just wants to be friends, a guy who's desperate etc might go along with that and say "oh ok!" but I was steadfast in saying "I'm sorry, I'm not interested in "just being friends".