The Tale of One Interest

[Sportster2005]

Aw, Sportster, I hope you're feeling better. Neither of these need be about rejection. No. 2 was never available. (" She resisted a date initially. She said she didn't like to date more than one person at a time... I really didn't care. Regardless, of what's going on in her life, I knew this was a one date affair ").

 

 

Maybe they are both "players", they seek male attention for the sake of attention?

 

The important thing is what do YOU want in a partner? Are Beautiful, Sexy, Good Talker at the top of the list? (Willing-to-Switch-Partners-at-the-Drop-of-a-Hat is probably not what you want, even though you said " when a woman finds a guy she really wants, she'll be with him." It was ONE date, one she didn't really want because she is not available. Do you really want a Flakey partner? )

 

I don't want a flaky partner.

 

I don't want to be attracted to LO. I don't want to think about her. It's challenging. The rational mind often loses control to infatuation and lust. Only the passage of time and distraction will kill this.

 

She is an enigma. Her bad qualities are obvious. So are her good ones. And generally there is no scarcity of good attractive women. There is a scarcity of women like her, and the traits I like. Unfortunately I can't separate them out.

 

I know I'm inclined to infatuation. It's not entirely a cognitive problem. I know all about it. I understand it. But knowledge doesn't help much. It feels real to me. Who knows, maybe it's some DNA thing.

 

I have to return something to her. I may have to see in her person. I'm already ready for more pain. But I'm willing to pay a steep price to see her again, even if it's just for a minute.

 

I know how pathetic that sounds. And I know I'm not being a strong confident man. I'm being a horrible doormat. Maybe I'll just mail it to her. If I don't hear soon, I'll just say I put it in the mail.

[reinventmyself]

Close to what, exactly? What is the 'it' that you're being deprived of?

 

You say, "Sure, I can see that this person is a flake, and I don't really want anything with her... I'm just doing this..."

 

...and then you do it, and you get exactly the results you expected.

 

I hate telling someone what he already knows. Grandma nailed it: "The problem is not that snakes will cross your path, they will. The problem comes when you're too bored or lonely to avoid picking up the snake to play with it..."

 

Well, flakes are just snakes in pretty disguises. Maybe it's time to Pay Attention?

 

Stop playing, start screening. You will thank yourself later.

 

Love this! Printing it up.

[reinventmyself]

 

 

 

I have to return something to her. I may have to see in her person. I'm already ready for more pain. But I'm willing to pay a steep price to see her again, even if it's just for a minute.

 

I know how pathetic that sounds. And I know I'm not being a strong confident man. I'm being a horrible doormat. Maybe I'll just mail it to her. If I don't hear soon, I'll just say I put it in the mail.

 

What exactly is it that you need to return to her?

Don't trick yourself into thinking it's more important than protecting your heart.

I have a postage stamp for you.

[youareworthy]

Reinvent is ready to spend postage from California to Canada to mail you the postage to mail the object back to LO.

 

I love ENA.

[Sportster2005]

What exactly is it that you need to return to her?

Don't trick yourself into thinking it's more important than protecting your heart.

I have a postage stamp for you.

 

Dance instructions. She says she has some new students coming soon. Who know how soon. And her private students tend to be advanced. The instructions she lent me are very basic. I don't know what she wants from me She's very good at what she does. For some reason she's keeping herself on the top of my mind.

 

My least cynical view is she just might want friendship. And she's trying to negotiate, manipulate to get her way. But I was very, very clear that's not an option. She can get me to do stupid things. Accepting friendship is not one of them. I would even have to pass on FWB. Ugh, as much as that pains me. I would be flubber in her hands then.

 

More cynically she loves the intensity of the attraction I have for her. And she wants without reciprocity.

 

Fantasy - She missed me, and saw how easy it was to walk away. Although she doesn't know that. All she knows is I told her "I wasn't worried, she'll be back, and it's just a matter of time." Then I smiled walked confidently away.

 

Who knows??

 

I think I've made myself vulnerable enough to her already. She knows how I feel.

[Sportster2005]

Reinvent is ready to spend postage from California to Canada to mail you the postage to mail the object back to LO.

 

I love ENA.

 

She might change her mind when she sees the cost of postage here

[reinventmyself]

Pretty sure if she's that good at it, she'll find a way of getting a new copy. Sorry but true. Don't buy into the urge. It's transparent and you know it.

 

Look, we've all been there. I go there daily. Well, honestly the urge is finally dissipating.

 

All those desperate thoughts of how to make ourselves available and posture ourselves within reach. . Blech.

Feels a little humiliating at times.

 

She knows where to find you if she changes her mind.

 

Sorry Sportster. Hang in there. Hang in there with me. If you need an accountability buddy come here and post or pm me.

 

You need to distance yourself from this whole thing so you can be more objective. Trust me.

[Sportster2005]

This is how this afternoon ended.

HER - I won't be at the restaurant until Friday day Saturday day and Sunday days. But we can certainly get together and I'll get the paperwork from you one of those days. It be nice to see you again too.

ME - O.K. I'll be there Saturday same time as last week.

HER - O.K. Thanks.

 

Get together. Interesting choice of words. Nice to see you again? It hasn't been a week. Trying to suck me into her friend zone? Has she had a sincere change of heart. Last week, she said, "Isn't ready to date anyone". "It wouldn't be fair to anyone". She said "She can't reciprocate anyone's feelings". She never said I'm not interested in you. I know semantics. You could argue what she really meant, was, "not ready to date you". And she was giving herself permission to check out an old flame. One that she felt she left because she was lied to about. I'm not so sure that is really offside. She was open about it. I don't know if she wants me in her orbit as a friend. I will go. I might stay for coffee. It just might be a congenial meeting then I go home. I'm not into friends, but she has my attention.

 

She never chased me this whole time. She rarely initiated contact. This is a change in her behavior.

 

My phone went off this evening. I wondered who it was. I was secretly hoping it was L.O. It was.

 

HER - Are you going down to xxxxxxx Street to do some dancing?

 

ME - Not tonight. I'm going to xxxxxx to practice some more

 

HER - Oh right. Cool

 

ME - I want to get really good!!

 

HER - Good !!!!

 

HER - We'll have to practice

 

ME - I would love that

 

She never, never asked me out, let alone initiate. And maybe she's assuming I'll go as her friend. Which she shouldn't. I was very clear.

 

This very significant. Dance is a passion to her. She's made the point several times about wanting a partner than can dance. She competes nationally in ballroom. She's a phenomenal dancer. It's been the subject of many of our talks. Asking to to go dancing and suggesting we practice is a big deal. She gets very intimate when she dances. The one time we danced a bit at her place I sensed she was getting turned on. I know I was. Incredible tension. She admitted at one time it's an aphrodisiac for her. But again, who knows?? I never really expected to hear from her, and now twice in one day.

 

I could see asking for her materials back a bit of play for attention. But asking me if I was going dancing is pretty big. I don't know her motivation though. And maybe it's open ended. Maybe she just wants to get to know me better. Or maybe she hasn't made up her mind between me and this other guy. Or maybe she has.

 

Back in June when I sent her the nasty text and then stopped contacting her, she never contacted me. Over a month had gone by. And she never would have contacted me again. Yet after I walk away this time, she's initiated contact. Again I'm trying not to get excited.

 

I don't know. I feel good right now. Maybe it's false hope. But it has relieved a lot of angst and anxiety. I will wake up tomorrow not feeling dreadful. I feel the ball is a bit in my court. I could still mail it Saturday and then text her I can't make it, that it's in the mail. That seems kind of mean right now. She's reaching out, like never before. I will see what happens. If I get a whiff that this is just a ploy to get want she wants as far as friendship goes I won't be so nice to her this time. I will be very frank and tell her to stop wasting my time. She will be reminded of exactly what I want, and what the boundaries are. If she contacts me, be prepared to be pursued, if you don't want to be pursued, don't waste my time.

[Sportster2005]

I'm going tomorrow. I'll hand it to her. I'm going to say.

 

"You made it clear last week you're not ready to date anyone, and you can't reciprocate my feelings. You also mentioned you had unresolved issues with another man. I also made it clear friendship is not an option. It's in my best interest to completely move on. I made myself completely vulnerable and available to you. You rejected that. No hard feelings. But you have to understand I'm not hanging around hoping for a change of heart. I'll miss you and it will be a drag we'll never dance together. But I need someone who is into me, and I'm not going to settle for less. Your materials are in the mail.".

 

Maybe I'll just put that in a text and mail her papers and be done with it. Then enjoy my long weekend without the anxiety of this foolishness.

 

EDIT. The text I'm going to sene

[journeynow]

Since she already knows how you feel and you made it clear that friendship is not an option, all you need to say is "Your materials are in the mail."

If she keeps checking in with you (perhaps for an ego boost for herself), you can repeat friendship is not an option. She's old enough, been around enough, to understand that without further clarificataion.

[reinventmyself]

You keep leaving up to her to make the final call, but I think this call is on you.

Based on the information you've received I don't know that you need to explain your position to her again?

If it gives you some closure, then go for it.

 

But personally I prefer not to set myself up to get knocked down again. My little heart can't take it.

As a woman. . I can tell you, we can tell when a man is smitten. You are undeniably smitten and you have told her such.

 

I hope I am not being too hard on you. I just don't want to see you go back out and play on the freeway.

 

If there is the remotest chance she may change her mind, I think you weaken your position by explaining it to her again.

It's like planting a seed. You can't keep turning up the dirt to see if it's growing.

[Sportster2005]

 

If there is the remotest chance she may change her mind, I think you weaken your position by explaining it to her again.

It's like planting a seed. You can't keep turning up the dirt to see if it's growing.

 

So just go tomorrow and see what happens? Or just mail it to her?

 

I'm not sure snubbing her at this time is a good idea. I told her she would be back, and she seems to be coming back. She's never gone to this much effort before. I guess much will be revealed tomorrow. Yes it could end very badly. But I would hate to have put in all this effort just to read things wrong at the end and blow this. I still have today and tonight to ponder.

 

She simply may not have her mind made up and needs more time. That's not unreasonable.

 

But I don't like being an option. Which may not be fair. She had more time invested in this other guy and he was a better known quantity. She may have examined that and realized that was dead. Or he may have balked at it, after be dumped by her.

 

I'm leaning toward just saying f it. I'll drop it off, smile and say bye. And there's that risk again. She could think she's finally reached out and I've blown her off and isn't interested.

 

I'm also experiences extreme stresses from areas of my life. So that is really clouding my judgement and emotions.

[Sportster2005]

And if I just walk away maybe I'm just sabotaging this. I did this very early in our courting. We agreed to go out one Saturday and I just blew it off. Part insecurity, and probably part sabotage. I'm terrified one level of this working. If I pretend I'm walking away, it might be because of fear. The thoughts of actually ending up with her terrify me, they always have. I think it might be just a bigger fear of intimacy and getting close.

 

Leaning toward mailing it. Texting her it's in the mail, having one last good cry. Block, block, block.

[journeynow]

Just mail it. It's the stronger option.

 

" I told her she would be back" Mmm, this seems like a tease, inviting mistreatment. I think you are misreading her "effort". It all falls into the friends or instructor category. And she likes attention, but that is not the same as being interested in a relationship. Since she knows your position, if she wanted to reverse her earlier decision she can come right out and ask you on a DATE, making it clear by stating it that it's not "as friends".

[journeynow]

And if I just walk away maybe I'm just sabotaging this. I did this very early in our courting. We agreed to go out one Saturday and I just blew it off. Part insecurity, and probably part sabotage. I'm terrified one level of this working. If I pretend I'm walking away, it might be because of fear. The thoughts of actually ending up with her terrify me, they always have. I think it might be just a bigger fear of intimacy and getting close.

 

Leaning toward mailing it. Texting her it's in the mail, having one last good cry. Block, block, block.

 

You are walking away out of self-respect. She doesn't want to date, you do. "The thoughts of actually ending up with her terrify me, they always have." What about the red flags? Didn't you mention red flags? Does she get a free pass because she's beautiful and you're infatuated? That doesn't make for a long-term healthy happy relationship. Do you want a fling, or a FWB instead?

[reinventmyself]

I dunno.

I get your dilemma. Seeing you have already agreed to personally give her the notes, I would do so, but be upbeat and kind. No reason not to. I wouldn't stay for coffee or a visit though. I get you are disappointed and not at your best. But I would give her the notes and say you are on your way somewhere else, wish her a good day, smile and bug out. No attitude.

 

I think mailing it after-the-fact gives you away. She will probably be taken back by how much your interaction with her has affected you. It's kind of a dramatic move after-the-fact. She likely doesn't see your interaction the way you do.

 

If you think you can handle it, drop of the notes. Take the high road.

If it's too much then there is no harm in mailing them either. . or dropping them off in an envelope at the dance place with her name on it.

Bottom line, do whatever you need to do to feel ok about this.

 

Sorry this is giving you such a hard time.

I get it.

[journeynow]

I get your dilemma. Seeing you have already agreed to personally give her the notes, I would do so,

 

Or "Turns out I cannot meet you tomorrow. Am putting it in the mail."

 

Subtext: I have other things going on. Nothing more.

[NorthDallas40]

Sportster I haven’t read all of your journal and only skimmed this latest development, so I apologize if my advice doesn’t take certain details into account.

 

But speaking as a fellow man, you need to sack the eff up. This woman is giving you lukewarm signals at best. Crumbs. Mail the stuff to her and don’t engage her further unless she is CLEARLY giving you signals she wants to date. Not dance lessons, not paper exchanges, not idle chit-chatty texts.

 

Those aren’t worth ZIP, considering your feelings.

 

My favorite line in RONIN is when De Niro says “It there’s a doubt, there’s no doubt.”

 

This applies to relationships too. Anything but a YES is a NO.

 

“I need time” = NO

“I’m not sure” = NO

“You’re a really sweet guy, but ______” = NO

“Oh I’m busy” = NO

 

And as far as dating goes, a woman who repeatedly says "NO" as this woman is doing is a complete waste of time and emotion. Trust us, she KNOWS how you feel about her. Whatever you do at this point won't change her knowledge of this fact.

 

If you followed my journal lately, you know that I recently met a woman who came on so strong that I wouldn’t be blamed for thinking she wanted to marry me and have my kids on the spot. But despite the endless compliments, affection, sex and plans for the future, she ran hot and cold and ultimately dumped me after a month and tried to blame me for it.

 

She also left not one, but two, personal items that were special to her at my place.

 

They are currently residing in a dusty drawer because I’m not going to give her the satisfaction of reaching out to her about them. Or anything else.

 

If she wants them back, she can ask. And I’ll request a mailing address.

 

In the meantime, I’m going to enjoy a first date with a new girl tonight.

 

I suggest you do the same.

[Sportster2005]

You are walking away out of self-respect. She doesn't want to date, you do. "The thoughts of actually ending up with her terrify me, they always have." What about the red flags? Didn't you mention red flags? Does she get a free pass because she's beautiful and you're infatuated? That doesn't make for a long-term healthy happy relationship. Do you want a fling, or a FWB instead?

 

I said I would drop them off. I will. I will hand them to her and just say, if anything changes from last week, contact me and we will go out on a date. I'm sorry if there was any confusion, but friendship is still not an option. She will either say O.K, or ........

 

I think it was implied when I told her she would be back, it would be for dating, not friendship. I'll be annoyed if she is trying to get her way with friendship. I was pretty clear about that.

[Sportster2005]

I dunno.

I get your dilemma. Seeing you have already agreed to personally give her the notes, I would do so, but be upbeat and kind. No reason not to. I wouldn't stay for coffee or a visit though. I get you are disappointed and not at your best. But I would give her the notes and say you are on your way somewhere else, wish her a good day, smile and bug out. No attitude.

 

I think mailing it after-the-fact gives you away. She will probably be taken back by how much your interaction with her has affected you. It's kind of a dramatic move after-the-fact. She likely doesn't see your interaction the way you do.

 

If you think you can handle it, drop of the notes. Take the high road.

If it's too much then there is no harm in mailing them either. . or dropping them off in an envelope at the dance place with her name on it.

Bottom line, do whatever you need to do to feel ok about this.

 

Sorry this is giving you such a hard time.

I get it.

 

It would be upbeat and kind. Last Saturday when I was given the news I was upbeat and kind. I like what I said above. It's adult and calm to seek clarification. And to give clarification.

 

Frankly if nothing has changed, I don't need to beat myself over the head with the obvious hammer and probably will not offer anything. I won't say friendship isn't an option. I won't say contact me if you change your mind. I will say this has really run it's course. I was clear to you about non friendship and you can't honor one simple request. Good bye. It will be said calmly and friendly. Then I'll block her completely.

 

My guess is she might try something vague. I hate to say it NorthDallas40 is probably right. But I have to see that one last glimmer of hope extinguished before my very eye's.

[NorthDallas40]

I hate to say it NorthDallas40 is probably right.

 

Full disclosure: the new girl just canceled on me

 

The other chick still isn't going to hear a peep from me though

[reinventmyself]

My favorite line in RONIN is when De Niro says “It there’s a doubt, there’s no doubt.”

 

This applies to relationships too. Anything but a YES is a NO.

 

“I need time” = NO

“I’m not sure” = NO

“You’re a really sweet guy, but ______” = NO

“Oh I’m busy” = NO

 

Great words, ND

I will add that I have learned that whenever there is a mixed message and we catch ourselves trying to decode it, we've crossed over into quicksand.

Mixed messages means = NO go.

[journeynow]

I will add that I have learned that whenever there is a mixed message and we catch ourselves trying to decode it, we've crossed over into quicksand.

Mixed messages means = NO go.

 

I would "rep" this if I could.

[NorthDallas40]

I will add that I have learned that whenever there is a mixed message and we catch ourselves trying to decode it, we've crossed over into quicksand.

Mixed messages means = NO go.

 

Yep.

 

Think about it. If you're REALLY into someone, and you know the feeling is mutual, are you going to do ANYTHING that might give that person the wrong idea? HELL NO!

 

So when someone displays wishy-washy behavior when they already know how you feel, it simply means they're just not into you.

 

No further analysis needed.

[IAmFCA]

I said I would drop them off. I will. I will hand them to her and just say, if anything changes from last week, contact me and we will go out on a date. I'm sorry if there was any confusion, but friendship is still not an option. She will either say O.K, or ........

 

I think it was implied when I told her she would be back, it would be for dating, not friendship. I'll be annoyed if she is trying to get her way with friendship. I was pretty clear about that.

 

Don't say jack about relationship stuff. Let her twist in the wind.

 

Just say "Here are your notes, I am on my way to meet a friend, so I've got to run." And if she isn't home when you stop by, leave them by the door with a note that says, "Here are your notes. Good luck with class!" or whatever. You live in a tight knit community. Keep your cards a little bit close.