Blue Spiral Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 This makes me optimistic that there's a girl out there somewhere who'd rather go to the Deadpool movie next Valentine's day than like eat at an overcrowded restaurant. I doubt I'll meet her, but I like thinking she's out there! Can't wait for that movie. My exes loved going to superhero movies with me, so don't lose hope. And now back to your regularly-scheduled topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Like a lot of those qualities, you have to work hard AND win the DNA lottery. Yeah for many of us, a Ryan Reynolds-esc 6 pack just isn't going to happen. Or, even if you get it, you won't be able to maintain it for long. Personally, as I've already said, I don't really think it's even really that worth it. Most women just want to see a guy with a solid build that doesn't look like the wind will blow him away (well, they want...other similar physical qualities that many of us great guys on ENA don't have, but I'll bite my tongue since it's Thursday and I'm in a relatively good mood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I do think at times it is wrong to initiate -if you see a person with headphones, or looking in her purse for something or rushing along. The other day I was power walking in a rather deserted park (morning time)- I had no choice really if I wanted to get a work out in because I had my son full-time and he happened to be in a class in a building nearby. A man called to me from some feet away and I ignored him. He called again "hey I asked you something!" -I called back "yes?" and he asked if I had seen a soccer game going on in the park (no I replied, without going any close). I think he needed to understand that calling to a stranger - a woman- jogging alone in a deserted park in a not great neighborhood might not elicit a response(I had headphones in too) - it was not an emergency and I chose safety over "politenesss". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 This makes me optimistic that there's a girl out there somewhere who'd rather go to the Deadpool movie next Valentine's day than like eat at an overcrowded restaurant. I doubt I'll meet her, but I like thinking she's out there! Well, that would be me, but I'm old enough to be your mom and married. Sorry, no daughters, but she's out there all right. There are women like that around, trust me. You just have to keep looking, you'll find her. Now, the hubs isn't a Marvel fan, but my sons and I already gearing up to see that film plus Suicide Squad. Just to see Jared Leto's Joker alone, nothing else, just for that I will see that movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm with Paris on this. Being quite sociable in the past, I didn't mind having conversations with men I didn't know whilst out and about (providing they weren't yelling at me from accross the street or following me closely late at night) until I had a large number of bad experiences that have since taught me to put my personal safety first. Even a chat that seems quite friendly can end up with a request (drink/date/number) and if you're not interested it can be very hard to say "thank you, but no" when you KNOW some men can become verbally abusive or violent when faced with a polite rejection. I myself have had that happen in clubs/pubs/bus stops/public transport/taxi ranks - once even while shopping on a busy high street on a Saturday morning! "Hey! HEY! You're beautiful/hot/sexy/whatever! Can I have your number?/ want to get a drink?" "Thanks, but no thanks, sorry" "Go on, you know you want to" "Sorry, I can't/ I have a BF" (I hated to say that but it often worked the fastest) "You can/He'll never know, come on, just your number then" "Sorry, thanks, I appreciate it, (smile) but no thank you" (Shouting) "EFFING B---- S--- EFFING W----" This wasn't just once or twice either. This was many, many times. I also had a guy hold me by my throat up against a wall for saying no, and another threw a beer glass at me. Then there was the motorist who flagged me down when I was riding my scooter. I thought there might have been a problem with it in some way, so I pulled over. He got out and started asking me directions to places that were miles apart. Became inappropriate, comments on my body etc. Then as I made to go he held my back wheel off the ground... Then there was the taxi driver that took me to a field in the middle of nowhere instead of home... The guy on the train that sat next to me, asked me my name then started touching himself... The guy who followed me on my way home from work until I walked to a police station.., The guy who chatted to me in a country club who seemed really nice... then spiked my drink... I was VERY lucky to get out of these situations mostly uninjured. Some of my friends have not been so lucky. I think it's sad that I feel the way I do now, that these 30/40 difficult experiences with men have now made me wary of all men, but they have. I don't think men realise how intimidating they can appear. There is no way for a woman to tell the difference between a man with good intentions to one without. Scary/violent/pervy men don't wear badges. They just look like ordinary men, some are good looking, some are ok, some are not, some are charming, some aren't and they can all seem nice at first. There's just no way to tell. All of my female friends, bar one, have had many experiences like this. Please, if you do approach a woman (and I'm not saying that is always a bad thing) know that there is a good chance she will be assessing you in relation to her personal safety right off. And even if you are respectful and polite but she says 'no, thank you' and leaves, remember it could be nothing to do with you, or your attractiveness to her, and all about her past experiences. Also, and I can't stress this enough, read her body language, if she's not massively into it, stop talking. And if it's clear she doesn't want to talk to you, or if she rejects your advances, be nice about it and back off. I'm sure the guys on here already know this, I'm not meaning to be patronising. I'm hoping perhaps that this post gets read by someone who has been rejected and feels bad, or maybe even someone who thinks it's ok to pester a woman - this might offer some insight. This is the advice I give all my male friends, most of whom, it has to be said, are disturbed that some women might see them as a potential threat initially. As I said, I'm sure it's a small minority of men that cause problems like this, but because of their behaviour, safety is ALWAYS going to be a consideration for some, and in my experience -most, women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Also, and I can't stress this enough, read her body language, if she's not massively into it, stop talking. And if it's clear she doesn't want to talk to you, or if she rejects your advances, be nice about it and back off. You're quite right my friend. This is key - knowing how to read a woman's body language/facial expressions (however subtle they may be). Knowing this has saved me from a lot of embarrassment in my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think you're right. Body language CAN sometimes be subtle. I think my body language is 'guarded' if I'm not interested, because of my experiences, but I've witnessed my friends' reactions, some of whom blush and smile out of embarrassment, be misinterpreted as healthy interest. For people not so clued up on it, I think it's best to err on the side of caution and treat any difficult to read body language as 'not interested'. Even if a woman gives off 'the right signals' it still doesn't mean she finds the man attractive or wants to have any sort of relationship with him at all, she could just be being friendly. Time will tell there. I like my best friend's approach to talking to women he doesn't know. • eye contact • smile • wait for eye contact and smile to be returned • Then, and only then, talk/go over. He says it's easier on him (he's fairly shy) to make initial contact from a distance. He ends up smiling at a LOT of women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontiger Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I remember reading a story awhile back where a woman was shot because she wouldn't give a guy her number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You're right. I found an article about it. (Huffpost - can't post urls) That poor woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpexpressme Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontiger Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). Complexly disagree. Certain behaviors are creepy, (such as being driven into the middle of no where by a cab driver) and when my gut instinct says run, I run. Rather then risk getting shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's not sexy for me at all, whether the man is attractive to me or not. And in certain situations (like on trains or on the street) I find it intimidating and often scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). I mostly agree with this. But remember...men don't get "creeped out." That's a woman thing. To me, if a hot girl approaches me, um, hello...a hot girl is approaching me (though this doesn't happen to me all that often, at least not in real life ). Now for women, even if the guy is good looking, if their approach is off and they come accross as super socially awkward (creepy), then the woman might get turned off. I know a guy like this. Not a bad looking guy at all (above average, at his best, I'd say), but he can't talk to women to save his life. He comes off as a "creeper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 "Creepy" to me is any man who persists despite being told no. Or any man who comes over and makes comments about parts of my body. ("I couldn't help noticing your t---/ a-- AWESOME") 😩 Or any man who gets aggressive when his requests are politely declined. Or any man who thinks he's a PUA. 😂 That's "creepy" to me. Men who treat me like a fellow human being and not like a prize to be won at a fair? Now THAT'S sexy. 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 AntyPat nailed it. I've had enough similar experiences myself, so yeah I look at a guy's body language, the situation, whether or not I can get to safety if he should turn out to be like that nice attractive college boy who once tried to stuff me into a car calling me names as I fought back after asking for my help with getting something out of it for a party we were both attending. I find it ironic as hell that back then I got shamed for "gosh, you talked to a stranger, you didn't know that boy, why'd you trust him" and now here on this forum I'm seeing a similar shaming for women that goes something like "gosh, why wouldn't you talk to that stranger, you don't know him, why not trust him?." Bottom line, when I have Dwayne Johnson's muscle mass and stand 6 feet or more I'll be more than happy to let any total stranger who I don't know sh(( about who comes to my chest or shoulders walk right into my personal space and make remarks about my body and get aggressive with me. 'Cause then I'd know one punch back if he turns threatening is all I need to get out of a potentially deadly or traumatizing experience. But until that day you need to have manners, observe my body language, and keep in mind the last stranger I trusted to get too close to me tried to hurt me or kill me. And I still to this day, 25 years later, do not take too kindly to that. Or anyone of his ilk. And the bigger problem there fellas is I don't know if you are like him or not when I don't know you and have never met you. So please manners in, just be cool and friendly, don't get aggressive or weird, don't touch us and DO NOT act like a douche if we simply say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Spot on, ParisPaulette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). Ah yes, the inevitable "It's not that I'm doing anything wrong or invading someone's space or harassing them, it must be you just don't like my looks." Because after all if the guy looks like a Football Captain it is totally fine for him to harass, bully, annoy, terrorize, rape and kill anyone. After all his looks give him a free pass to do whatever he wants... Okay, yes now I'm resorting to sarcasm here. But gosh I'm not one to waste anything and the world just gives me soooo much material to work with. And with that I am out of this convo altogether. So depressing when someone asks a simple questions, wants honest answers, and the whole "he/she" myth, myth, misinformation crowd just has to come roaring in with their little opinions that do not answer the original question at all. I answered OP's post several pages ago, so did other women. We did not want to or need to get into a whole debate about why we're wrong for not liking it when some guy grabs us and pins us to a wall or calls us names for simply saying no thank you or asking someone to back out of our personal space. Last time I checked we all had free will here. If someone doesn't want to talk to me or wants to snub since I am a complete stranger then I don't care. Neither should you. Do what I do, ask yourself, "Maybe I missed a cue or perhaps I should work a tad more on my social skills or observing body language." When I have been bitten I didn't blame the dog, I accepted that I missed very important cues and got impatient and got too close before the animal had accepted me as someone safe. I accept my errors when they happen, it's all any of us can do. Guys if you go to talk to a woman and she rejects you all you can do is say, "Well, that didn't go as planned. What did I miss or how did I come accross." 'Cause until I start hearing a plethora of stories of "All I did was tell her good morning as I was walking past her and she maced me" stories or "We were sitting at a bar together and when I asked if I could buy her a drink she and her friends laughed at me, threw drinks on me and chased me out of the bar" I'm really just not seeing why all this refusal to accept that what we're saying is don't invade our personal spaces and grab us and then call us names when we don't like it, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE. BTW I have been snubbed plenty when I told some stranger good morning or said hello, both men and women, it didn't cause me to go "now that's just not fair, if only I had a 38C chest, THEN they'd all say hi back to me and be friendly." But I guess if I go off the logic of the above quote then so what? So I don't find someone sexy when they approach me and I don't want to talk to them, so what? It's my life, my body, my will to speak or not to whoever I want. What's it to you, a total stranger, if I don't want to talk to you. We don't know each other, we owe each other nothing beyond common courtesy. If I show it I expect it back and I do so regardless of who someone is or what they look like or don't look like or their sex, their race, their religion or just about anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosti87 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). That is a misnomer. I have been aggressively pursued by very handsome men. But if they encroach on my space or push me faster than I'm ready, I'm backing out of the driveway STAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That is a misnomer. I have been aggressively pursued by very handsome men. But if they encroach on my space or push me faster than I'm ready, I'm backing out of the driveway STAT. Agreed. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 This entire post is worth repeating. *high five* ParisPaulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind). Not like that for me, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetarah Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Worth another bold quote and enlarged font quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Here's a guy who gets it. [video=youtube;MlNUIIyDA_w] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker0602 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 I hope I don't come off offensive. But, wow, I dont think a single person here advocated for rape, assault, etc. and anyone who thinks that the kind of behavior you describe is in anyway acceptable, is clearly, THE problem and a detriment to MEN (because men who do that are not men.) of my type,who really just want to meet a nice girl that will eventually drive us crazy! Yours, and others, AWFUL, experiences are truly terrible and not at all the fault of you, the victim. After reading again through everyones comments here, I don't see anyone saying that any of that behavior is acceptable. The post "It's only creepy if you don't like who's approaching you. It's sexy if you like who's approaching you. It's not the act it's self, it's who the person is (in your mind)." Is in no way trying to say that if you're a giant muscly jock that you have a free pass to womens personal space, it sounds a lot like the Ryan Reynolds argument had on here previously, that attraction *might* play a role in a woman's decision/reaction to being approached by a stranger. Its just a cruder way of saying that. I can say that I know for a fact I have rejected women because of how they look, just like that has happened to me, probably more than I know. If I am reading the comments correctly, I dont see any comments displaying any judgement on whether or not women are right or wrong for doing this. I'm not going to feel bad (though I usually do) for not being attracted to someone who is attracted to me, and I'm not wrong for doing that. Neither are women. My point is that it sounds like you are fed up with a minority of men who do this, and those of us who dont.... Well, its not your fault and you should ABSOLUTELY be safe first, but it makes it hard on us that have the good intentions, and hard on you ladies who want the right kinds of men. Now, I posted asking the question, and have gotten tons of good information from both sides of the aisle, especially from you, Paris. Not that its a joke, but if your pointer is now, "dont rape me" ... message received... but crude sarcasm aside, I can say pretty clearly what I should do now despite this argument, which while somewhat off topic, has still been very useful in revealing some of the issues a man may run into when dealing with a woman he might find attractive, and actually try to approach! Being attractive can never hurt! (No its not number 1 all the time for all women, and may not be high on the list for some, but does not hurt to be good to the eyes. Hence, I should continue hitting the gym, and in general continue to take care of myself) Be funny/easy-going (If you are going to start a conversation, be playful, fun, and without expectation for ANYTHING, including a response at all -- plus as brought up, this is useful in more than just attraction) Respect of personal space (I know someone mentioned not having an "escape" and that kind of spoke to me since a lot of the safety and awareness stuff came up) Body Language (Women who appear busy, probably are, women who MIGHT be open to a conversation will probably be more attentive to their surroundings) Handle rejection gracefully (DO NOT be a jerk, since as mentioned above, no expectation should be had since nothing is owed to begin with, and this just makes it harder for the next guy who takes a shot) Tying into the last one -- Be Secure (Sometimes people just aren't interested, even Ryan Reynolds has been told no... and he has that 6 pack! Perhaps, shes just having a bad day, its not always you thats the problem) No physical compliments (this one I didnt know at all, I thought I was being nice and genuine, but try to be conversational before you start in with physical compliments i.e. wait for a date to do that and even then keep it classy) Im sure there is more than this, however, these are big takeaways that I see. That, and apparently this type of thing is on womens mind as well since this thread has gotten just a ton of activity. I knew a few of these already, and was completely in the dark about others. Everyone is different, so I expect this isnt some kind of cookie cutter thing, but the thoughts here are good ones. If this conversation ever contributes to my romantic endeavors I will update! I am quite thankful for those that have participated and hope that if anyone has anything else to add, they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntyPat Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 But, wow, I dont think a single person here advocated for rape, assault, etc. and anyone who thinks that the kind of behavior you describe is in anyway acceptable, is clearly, THE problem and a detriment to MEN (because men who do that are not men... No one said anyone advocated for rape or assault. What we said was we do not know your intentions by looking at you and many women will put their safety first. Saying no is hard when some men react violently to it. "Men who do this are not men" That's just it. The men who do this ARE men. Entitled men, but men. You may think it makes them 'less of a man' or not 'a real man' but they are actually men. And that means women have no way of knowing if individual men are safe or not. As for it being a small minority, I think that's true, but unfortunately it's not a small minority of women who have had problems in this way. If I were a man, I would really think twice about approaching a woman on the street now. There are high profile campaigns like Hollaback, The Everyday Sexism Project and YouOKSis where women are trying to end street harassment. (I'm not saying approaching a woman on the street IS street harassment, I'm saying that it is becoming less acceptable to approach a woman in that way BECAUSE of street harassment.) I think it was really good that the question was asked and it's been an interesting thread. I think you have some good ideas now and I wish you well. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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