ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Quick background My girlfriend and her BFF dated in HS . He came out as gay while dating. They stayed friends. They stay in close touch on a weekly sometimes daily basis(hence the term BFF). I've met him and his live in partner of 5+ years. My question is one of relationship boundaries. What's appropriate for sharing? Or as my girlfriend says "is it honoring our relationship". Specifics She gave me her phone to use as a light source(as to not wake our hosts) to find my way to the bathroom after we came in from a long night of drinking.(celebrating, vacation, at a friends house). While in the bathroom I had nothing else to do and started going through her phone. (That was wrong and that issue is being addressed-by professionals, so let's save those comments). I began reading texts between her and her bff. I came accross a list of things that are concerning to me for someone that should be honoring our relationship. Mainly - he sends her images, video clips, gifs of guys masturbating with the intent of her "getting off" as well as "sneak peaks" of the top of his privates (the "here is my pubes coming out of my underwear shot"). Also, instances of him bashing me and her not rebutting, but she says she has dealt with that in the phone. So, overall we are awesome together, but I have paranoia and insecurity, we will be working on our issues with the help of professionals and this particular one she pushes back on me and says those are private conversations and it's like reading her diary. I've asked if she plans on modifying the boundaries/terms of their relationship to "honor" our relationship. She becomes standoffish and says I need to talk to my therapist about this. So, what are your opinions of an over sharing bff? I feel hurt from this. I feel like sex is an intimate thing between two people and should not be shared with BFFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhowe Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think she has no intention of "honoring" your relationship,with him nor changing her ou diaries.,your breach of her privacy has become the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with Dog Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's 6 to you and half a dozen to her. On one hand you shouldn't have been snooping but on the other hand she should not have given you anything to find when she did. If my wife had been sharing this sort of stuff, I'd be paranoid, too! Quite honestly, I don't think either of you can trust each other. As MHowe says, she has no intention of honouring your relationship. Better to set each other free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melancholy123 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What does "honouring the relationship" mean? Both of you sound sneaky to me. I'm glad you are in therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think she has no intention of "honoring" your relationship,with him nor changing her ou diaries.,your breach of her privacy has become the issue. Totally agree about that being the ultimate issue now, as I said, that is being addressed, with professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 What does "honouring the relationship" mean? Both of you sound sneaky to me. I'm glad you are in therapy. Honoring our relationship means, not doing anything to jeopardize it. Like seeing other people, going on dates with other people, essentially what you would expect from a married couple in a committed relationship. The sneakiness I completely agree with. As more background, she and her therapist believe that I have, and I'm not sure if this is the right term, acute anxiety related to past relationships. She has seen how it affects me and our relationship. She has asked that I go to a therapist to have it addressed, and at the same time allow her to address some of her issues(shes been seeing a therapist for a number of years due to a divorce, alcoholic father and other life stresses). Up until this point, and this all coming to a head, I have denied and refused to go, thinking it would get better. But now, with prodding from her therapist, we are on a 'pause'(not a break, her words not mine). My response to that was, you basically have one foot out the door, and you are just easing into a break up. She is very sincere and says she is doing this for us. And besides my anxiety, I have no reason not to trust what she is saying. Other than that this is her opportunity to move on, and she is the one encouraging all of this, so that we can grow and move forward as a couple and be the best we can be for each other. Her words not mine. We have set parameters for our pause, and that's where the honoring our relationship part comes in which was also her suggestion. So I return to my original question. Is having the sort of relationship(details mentioned above in OP) with your BFF, honoring the relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhowe Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It is about your feeling of what sharing intimate info vs her idea. If this was a gf, and not a gay bff, would you have the same issues? It would appear his boundaries are off, sending photos of his nether region. I agree, however, that you anxiety and paranoia are the issues here, as there is minimal intrusion on the "boundaries" which were not established beforehand....simply being discussed after you read her phone texts (another boundary issue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.man Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Is this guy attractive? I've had a few different girlfriends with BFFs who were gay men. Only one had real issues come up, but boundaries can be tricky. I believe that such friendships are far more frequently one-sided than many would like to admit and that. That's not specifically picking on women. If lesbian + straight men relationships were more common, I think it'd be just as pronounced an issue. At face value, it sounds as though your girlfriend is attracted to her friend and that her friend enjoys the attention. Friends being "protective" and talking trash about their friend's partner to them, as high school as it is, is pretty normal. Him sending her porn clips is weird to me, but if they're not him and if you two have expressed you're alright with porn, I'd be willing to overlook it. Now him sending pics of his lower abs and pubes? **** that. If my girlfriend were the type that I needed to sit down and spell out that accepting pics of her male friends' pubes was a breach of our boundaries, she wouldn't be my girlfriend for long. I don't care if he's gay or not. Again, it sounds like your girlfriend is attracted to this man and lacks the interpersonal common sense to know what generally accepted boundaries would be. If you're a better and more patient man than me, by all means, sit her down and spell out every boundary you can think of if ignorance is going to be her excuse. But I don't think she'd change the dynamic of her friendship with him for you or any other man in the future. It's something she simply needs to grow out of. All that said, you gotta keep up with the therapy, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Is this guy attractive? I've had a few different girlfriends with BFFs who were gay men... They have been friends since high school. We are both in our 40s. So not sure how much growing out of the relationship will happen. Some more back story. Her husband wasn't very generous in the gift giving department, so her BFF would take it upon himself to send gifts from Tiffanys to her. I don't think this lead to the divorce, but I'm sure it didn't help things. My observation with the relationship is that this man loves to have women fawn all over him. Him and his partner organize a "girls weekend" every year(they pick a destination, they all travel and they just party the whole time). And my girlfriend and I have been pretty serious and intense and actually both have hopes of the future with us both in it, considering we lack some communication skills. We get along great, similar backgrounds and interests, compatible ideologies and politics, compatible libidos. She actually said to me, that if I had a lesbian friend that sent me porn it would be OK. My thought on that is that, I wont have any lesbian friends send me porn( i dont think its right) nor would i have had a past sexual relationship with said lesbian.. So as an example, I brought up my highschool sweetheart, and said what if she sends me porn in our chats, would that be cool(we are never getting back together, we are just friends, she is married) (and she is the one that Im sure has caused all of my anxieties in the first place)? Her response is, that she is sure she wouldn't like that, but still pushed back on me and said to talk to my therapist about it because she believes shes done nothing wrong. I requested that she does the same. I think he sees how we are together and is threatened that his attention will be diverted to me, that he wont be the most important person in her life. Hence the bashing of me. As far as his attractiveness, I would do him if I were gay. He is in his 40s and in decent shape for his age. I actually think he is a cool guy(i've met him before), but now that I know he bashes me makes me wonder how much of a cool guy he is. I feel like she thinks I don't want them to be friends, And that's not the case, I'm just not comfortable with some of the lack of boundaries and I feel like she can't see my side of it, or doesn't see anything wrong with it at all. So Im really wondering if I am being completely wrong about this or if what I am requesting is reasonable, considering we are 'honoring' the relationship. And thanks for your words, ultimately I will be in therapy for my issues. We have agreed to not see each other for 6 weeks. This will give me time to work on things and her as well, including get into a new career path and preparing to be a teacher/professor at a prestigious university in our area. We have also agreed that we will write each other during this time frame while we are working on ourselves. Good old fashioned snail mail. And we have agreed that this isnt a break to see what else is out there or to experiment(we are both getting pretty old for that) and to 'honor' the relationship. She assures me that we are both still a couple and at the end of this we are going to come out even stronger for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhowe Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I sense an ambivalence on her part to truly commit nor change for you. Or herself (because she seems very happy with herself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingFool Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Have to echo j.man here. Venting to your friends about your relationship problems is normal. As is your friends making a snide comment or two back about it. That's one of those things where eavesdropping on a conversation not meant for your ears or eyes, in this case, will just wreck your life. Don't do it. Most people will vent to friends, that doesn't make your relationship bad. Sending porn, her watching porn....whatever....that's between you and her how you view that. Either you are fine with that or you are not. Your personal call. As for him sending shots of his privates.....wth?!...... Only thing I can think of is he is boosting his ego by "teasing her" and she thinks he is gay so that's ok and funny. Either way, you really shouldn't have to explain to her that it's not OK but looks like you need to. Honestly, if she can't see it off the bat and tells you that you need to talk more to your therapist, then maybe it's not you but this relationship that's a toxic problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.man Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't think it's unreasonable to not want her and him to be exchanging porn clips. It's simply something I might be able to overlook (then again, maybe not). It's the actual abs/pube selfie that would put me over the edge. Unfortunately, as mhowe just pointed out, it sounds like she's stuck in her ways. I'm sure there's plenty for you (and likely her) to seek therapy for, but her dismissing your legitimate discomforts and simply throwing the word therapy out there in lieu of any interest in compromising makes it pretty clear she's stuck in her ways. It looks like you're going to have to consider things as they are and whether you're willing to look around them. If it's any consolation, it's safe to assume these two will never end up sleeping with each other (although, as a believer in the Kinsey scale, I do hesitate to say "never"). If you're honest with yourself, do you think you can deal with this 5, 10 ,15 years down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimthzz Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ok, on scale of bad: 5 out of 10 for snooping on her phone. 10/10 for her exchanging porn with her guy friend/ 20/10 for he sending her anything graphic of himself. Don't let her make this about her privacy. Committed couples don't send that crap to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I sense an ambivalence on her part to truly commit nor change for you. Or herself (because she seems very happy with herself). There might be some truth to that. She has been going to therapy for a few years now, sometimes 2 times a week. I swear she makes the therapist's car payments. She admits she has not been happy or stable in the past and she says she has come along way to even the person she was 2 years ago and that I wouldn't even recognize the person she was back then. We've been dating for little over a year. I feel everything she says she is being genuine and honest about what she hopes to accomplish with this 'pause', but the anxiety part of me is having problems accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhowe Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the "pause" is for you to calm down and six weeks is a long time (in some regards) to let the physical side of the relationship evaporate. I think in the end you will find your self downgraded to "just friends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the "pause" is for you to calm down and six weeks is a long time (in some regards) to let the physical side of the relationship evaporate. I think in the end you will find your self downgraded to "just friends". I am surprisingly calm about this. I think she was prepared if I didnt respond well to cut ties immediately. She has actually thanked me for understanding and supporting her and agreeing to better myself "for us". I think six weeks is a long time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.man Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I am surprisingly calm about this. I think she was prepared if I didnt respond well to cut ties immediately. She has actually thanked me for understanding and supporting her and agreeing to better myself "for us". I think six weeks is a long time as well.I'll be honest, man. If she does cut things off, I think you've dodged a huge long-term bullet here. These two want to live in their own little husband-wife world and seem to have very little regard for the feelings of those they'd actually be the husband or wife of. It's something I could see a couple of friends like them doing in their 20s, but in their 40s? It may take you and five guys after you leaving her before she realizes it's time to grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhowe Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Six weeks will be time enough to fade out. She already has one foot out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Six weeks will be time enough to fade out. She already has one foot out the door. Well, I can definitely tell who the pessimist is here But in all actuality, you're responses match up with what my mind set is right now and why she says I need to talk to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 She has no intention of stopping her behavior. She assumes your therapist will side with her. Are you willing to continue with this relationship if she does not stop this behavior and deflects blame onto you for not being OK with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 She has no intention of stopping her behavior. She assumes your therapist will side with her. Are you willing to continue with this relationship if she does not stop this behavior and deflects blame onto you for not being OK with it? I think that sometimes, I have also asked if she has talked to her therapist about this particular situation and she has not. Which to me shows a little bit of guilt or embarrassment about it. Maybe she knows its not right but not ready to admit it. I also think that she is hoping that I will be desensitized(by going to therapy) by things like this and it will always be called anxiety, jealousy or suspicion and it will be my problem and not hers. I've asked her when I go to therapy and get help, does it mean I can never get jealous or have anxiety about something? Continuing...thats the big question and we'll see how therapy goes. I know what the answer should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimthzz Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 it is not abnormal "jealousy" to be annoyed and to feel betrayed for a significant other to have sexual interactions with a "so-called" gay BFF. Trust your gut on this, it is inappropriate--period. As for snooping on her phone goes? No biggie--especailly given what you found. My phone is transparent. I could hand it to my wife at any time and she would not find a darn thing to make her distressed. If I were you? I'd show her the barn door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Therapy does not "desensitize" you to anything. That is not the goal of therapy. Therapy is to help you deal with life's challenges and stresses in a healthier way. People who have PTSD don't attend therapy so that someone hitting them doesn't bother them anymore!!! That's just a ridiculous concept. Therapy will teach YOU to have healthy boundaries...so you no longer question whether or not you should be OK with your partner having a sexual relationship (and yes, this is what it is) with another person. You'll know it's wrong for you and you will know it is right to walk away. She will be VERY surprised when you emerge from therapy as a guy who won't put up with her BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedDude11 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 it is not abnormal "jealousy" to be annoyed and to feel betrayed for a significant other to have sexual interactions with a "so-called" gay BFF. Trust your gut on this, it is inappropriate--period. As for snooping on her phone goes? No biggie--especailly given what you found. My phone is transparent. I could hand it to my wife at any time and she would not find a darn thing to make her distressed. If I were you? I'd show her the barn door. I have the same attitude with my phone. Even if I found her going in it without my permission. My concern would be why she felt she had to do that, and if she did how can we fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruy3 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I also was not concerned about a former gf having a gay friend, and it turned out they were cheating on me. Pardon my bluntness, but besides bi-people, there are some gays out there that do mind to have a piece of tail from women when going out dry. I would be very concerned about this "friendship". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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