8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[lilypadgirl]

I've actually been in therapy and a lot of my hesitancy to speak has to do with lack of validation from my parents as a child. I had a great childhood, really, but when it came to reinforcing my personal beliefs, my parents never validated me or gave me security in what I valued, and I was always questioning my decisions. RIght now I need to learn to take chances, and realize that if choice Ive made is not the most effective one, that I can still learn and grow from it.

 

This struck me. Is it possible that you are dating this man because in some way you are trying to undo the lack of validation from your parents as a child? As if somehow getting this older, successful, "wiser" and "more experienced" man with the interesting life full of fancy galas to commit to you will validate you as a person?

 

Because on all other levels, I don't see this relationship as being right for you or that you two are compatible. From two weeks in (after the fourth date), you were having issues with him communicating with you and wanting a stronger sense of interest from him. As you mentioned, nothing has changed in 8 months and that he is a very consistent person. Deep down, you probably know that nothing will change, but somehow you cling to the hope that he will want to commit to you.

 

He may be a commitment phobe - but you may be as well. As someone said, you may still not be recovered from your previous relationship or issues from childhood to work out. You are seeking commitment from a man who has proven in action that he prefers not to commit. That is a common commitment phobic behavior as well. You are creating all these obstacles in your path by making excuses for him, for yourself. And if you're not a commitment phobe and you genuinely do want commitment from him then...

 

You want to learn to take chances. You have the perfect opportunity to do that now. To take the chance of asking for what you want or at the very least asking him what he wants. If you're not ready for that, then to take the chance of initiating something with him - invite him over or invite yourself over. Either way you get the answer you want or you get the answer you don't want. Either way, you will learn and grow from that.

 

But stop hurting yourself by going in circles agonizing over this. You owe yourself so much more than that - you're worth so much more than that.

[boltnrun]

Lily, I too chose inappropriate men. That way I could avoid being in a real committed relationship because, who would expect me to commit to the drug addict? The guy who slept with multiple women while we were supposedly dating and lied to me about it? The guy who never has had a real job and who smokes pot and sleeps all day long? The guy with the drinking/drug/gambling problem who currently is crashing on various peoples' couches?

 

Naomi, maybe you really do want to keep things as they are now. You're "supposed" to want a long term, committed relationship, but maybe you're just not in the right place for one. And that's OK. But don't play the game where you pretend to want more when you won't do anything to change things because you don't really want to. It's OK to not want more. Really, it is. Just be honest with yourself.

[ThatwasThen]

Wow you're really good, and you don't even know the whole story. My GFs say the same thing you say; that if he stepped up to the plate and committed, I wouldn't know what to do with him and he would irritate me.

 

I don't believe that's 100 percent correct though. I'm in love with him and I find his quirks and eccentricities endearing because they are part of what makes him him. I think he is smart and adorable.

As you must know, because you've been in a long term relationship before, those things that you think make him "smart and adorable" can get old real quick when you have a steady diet of it. You've not spent enough time in his company to know if you can live with his jib day in and day out. I think you're addicted to him and the perpetual newness of the relationship more then you're actually in love with him but, hey, I'm not you and you're right, I don't know either of you but I'm old and I know that things are always better when there is no outside influence other then friendly banter and good sex. It only really counts when you can keep that up on a day to day basis while the rest of the world gets in the way.

 

I have gotten the impression from your posts that you really aren't ready for anything more with him but the addiction of what you do have with him is keeping you "not ready."

 

*shrugs* Just my crystal ball's worth anyway.

 

Cheers.

[ThatwasThen]

I'm thinking about disappearing into thin air without even having a talk.

 

After all, it's casual and no strings attached. All of the responsibilities that come with a relationship don't apply, and that includes a "talk."

You've had a long term casual relationship. Disappearing is not the answer. A conversation about "this is not enough for me" or "I think I need more and I don't believe that you do" is in order (how would you feel if the situation were reversed and he did that to you?) I suspect you're simply wanting to do a disappear on him so that you leave a door open for him to walk through.

[annie24]

You've had a long term casual relationship. Disappearing is not the answer. A conversation about "this is not enough for me" or "I think I need more and I don't believe that you do" is in order (how would you feel if the situation were reversed and he did that to you?) I suspect you're simply wanting to do a disappear on him so that you leave a door open for him to walk through.

 

Yes, I agree. You need to talk to him directly (ask him to dinner at a restaurant, or at your house if you think you or he might get emotional). Just say that you're looking for something more, you want to know where his head is, and if he doesn't want more, then it's best to part ways.

 

My friend Carol has tried to ask her guy a few times what the deal is, but he easily wiggles out of it, 'hm... let me think about it and get back to you." (Yeah, he said that to a few times and has never given her a straight answer. If he can't give you a straight answer, then you just need to move on and don't give him the opportunity to keep dragging you along.

[abitbroken]

I've actually been in therapy and a lot of my hesitancy to speak has to do with lack of validation from my parents as a child. I had a great childhood, really, but when it came to reinforcing my personal beliefs, my parents never validated me or gave me security in what I valued, and I was always questioning my decisions. RIght now I need to learn to take chances, and realize that if choice Ive made is not the most effective one, that I can still learn and grow from it.

 

Okay that's all fine and good but you are an adult woman now and I am calculating close to 40. If your therapist is going back to the whole "i am this way because i didn't get enough 'good jobs' from my parents" or you are still focusing largely on that versus focusing on the here and now and what you can do moving forward , you might want to explore a different therapist or different type of therapy. Maybe you need to learn coping mechanisms when you are anxious about something or different ways of conquering things instead of looking backwards and creating your own sense of security.

 

I also don't think that you are necessarily completely afraid of him giving the "wrong" answer. I think you are equally afraid of him being delighted to commit more to you. The key is to not get yourself worked up over it before the moment actually happens - and that is why the steps of taking a step - asking him to dinner during the week, etc, or something simple such as that - might soften the blow for you of addressing the subject. It might be a baby step to make you feel more comfortable.

[Blue Spiral]

My friend Carol has tried to ask her guy a few times what the deal is, but he easily wiggles out of it, 'hm... let me think about it and get back to you." (Yeah, he said that to a few times and has never given her a straight answer. If he can't give you a straight answer, then you just need to move on and don't give him the opportunity to keep dragging you along.

 

You have to remember, men get a lot of practice when it comes to dodging that particular question. I didn't have my first relationship until I was nineteen...and yet, by the time I was twenty-five, I'd already had to deal with that question at least a dozen times. The average guy my age has been ducking it for at least twenty years! Repetition leads to refinement...

[annie24]

You have to remember, men get a lot of practice when it comes to dodging that particular question. I didn't have my first relationship until I was nineteen...and yet, by the time I was twenty-five, I'd already had to deal with that question at least a dozen times. The average guy my age has been ducking it for at least twenty years! Repetition leads to refinement...

 

And Carol doesn't have nearly enough practice with BS detection or doesn't seem to have the backbone to say, "ok, if you don't want to be my boyfriend, I'm outta here."

 

But lots of men DO want to get married and be in committed relationships, otherwise there wouldn't be such a huge bridal industry!

[abitbroken]

Yes, I agree. You need to talk to him directly (ask him to dinner at a restaurant, or at your house if you think you or he might get emotional). Just say that you're looking for something more, you want to know where his head is, and if he doesn't want more, then it's best to part ways.

 

My friend Carol has tried to ask her guy a few times what the deal is, but he easily wiggles out of it, 'hm... let me think about it and get back to you." (Yeah, he said that to a few times and has never given her a straight answer. If he can't give you a straight answer, then you just need to move on and don't give him the opportunity to keep dragging you along.

 

then she needs to not say "what's the deal" but just come out and state what she wants". When you give someone 'whats the deal," they don't know what to say but saying "would you like to date only me exclusively and not date others? because i would like dating you exclusively" that is more clean cut. Or "do you ever see yourself being in a long term relationship or being married?"

[annie24]

then she needs to not say "what's the deal" but just come out and state what she wants". When you give someone 'whats the deal," they don't know what to say but saying "would you like to date only me exclusively and not date others? because i would like dating you exclusively" that is more clean cut. Or "do you ever see yourself being in a long term relationship or being married?"

 

ah, "what's the deal" was my phrase. I do not exactly what she said to him (I obviously wasn't there). I think she was trying to get accross that they have fun together and she wants to know if things are going to develop into anything deeper. He said that he's not ready/looking for a relationship at this point, but he thinks that she has some good points, and he wants to think about it. That was already 2 weeks ago. Carol should be listening to the "he's not looking for a relationship."

 

Anyway, not trying to hijack your thread. I agree with abitbroken that it's important to be very clear on what you want, and to be strong enough to leave if what you and he are looking for are different things.

[sb26]

browneyed- You nailed it girl!!

I am myself in a similar situation like Naomi. Though I never wrote anything here but had been religiously following this thread as I relate my present situation so well with you Naomi.

But now I am thinking of cutting the strings. Though deep inside I knew I will never be able to get anything out this relation(Don't even know if it is appropriate to call it relation as we are not even officially dating...huh.. that sucks). Still was hoping that it will work out between us. I will never be able to ask this guy what he thinks of our so called relation coz of my fears & hesitation just like Naomi.

 

But Browneyeda all the five points that you have mentioned gave a tight slap on my face..making me realize what all I had been knowingly ignoring to keep myself in a disbelief that this guy loves me. But you showed me the mirror dear. Thanks a lot.

[Naomi99]

link removed

 

Wow. This article was just written today and it pretty much describes me. Embarrassed to say it, but it's true.

[Ms Darcy]

I think the biggest commitment phobe in this situation is you. YOU are the one in love with someone who hasn't been all that interested from the beginning. If you were serious about commitment, you would have talked to him about it and moved on to someone interested.

 

Perhaps you can really get some value add from therapy by getting coaching on how to act and.not over think in this situation.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think the biggest commitment phobe in this situation is you. YOU are the one in love with someone who hasn't been all that interested from the beginning. If you were serious about commitment, you would have talked to him about it and moved on to someone interested.

 

Perhaps you can really get some value add from therapy by getting coaching on how to act and.not over think in this situation.

 

You know, Ms Darcy, I think you're on to something. When I was going through all those trials and tribulations with my last ex (mostly self-created, of course!) with a therapist, we talked about him being emotionally unavailable, and she looked at me and asked, "Do you think there's a possibility that YOU could be emotionally unavailable as well?" I didn't want to believe it, but....now I realize I WAS. We both were, just for different reasons (mine was self-esteem/self-worth issues). I hung onto him for so long because, on some level, it was comfortable for me (no matter how uncomfortable I felt at times), because I always knew he was never going to really be with me, so I didn't have to put myself out there, show my real self all the time, etc. I pined away for someone unavailable because it prevented me from being available and shielded me from all the stuff that comes along with actually being available -- all the risk, the vulnerability, etc.

 

Anyway....I was wondering if the same thing is true here. Naomi, this might be a good thing to consider.

[reinventmyself]

I learned this in therapy as well. . You are only as healthy as the company you keep and available people looking for like wise partners are not attracted to these types who won't let you in the door.

 

You want to know exactly how available you are as a partner? Look at your own history of dating choices.

 

I remember recounting to my therapist my dating style, thinking I was coy and smart playing hard to get . .His response. `You need to know that you will be very attractive to emotionally unavailable men if you continue to do this, don't you?'

 

If the OP was truly available herself she would have side stepped this dance a long time ago.

[Naomi99]

I've been dating off and on since my long-term splitup and I mistakenly understood this standoffish behavior with these new men to mean this is middle-age dating: Slow and careful progress. Now I know it's emotional unavailability.

 

Also since I've been dating, I have noticed the guys that are pushing for something more meaningful, (wondering what I'm doing, making plans way in advance, wanting to kiss me in public,) I lose interest in very quickly and feel annoyed and compelled to leave their texts unanswered.

 

Reflecting back eight months ago when I met the doctor, I had also started dating a really nice guy who had been married twice before, closer to my age, who was crazy about me. I was dating both simultaneously and by the third week, I had to make a decision who I was going to continue seeing. AAt this point, the doctor took forever to answer my texts ( ), and when he did they were one-word responses. In addition, he wasn't very informative about himself during his dates and would never tell me where he was during these long bouts of silence. The other guy was communicating all the time, went on a camping trip and texted me all night, and was an open book during our dates.

 

Guess who I chose to continue dating?

[Naomi99]

thinking I was coy and smart playing hard to get . .His response. `You need to know that you will be very attractive to emotionally unavailable men if you continue to do this, don't you?'

 

I am so twisted that my first thought was, "WOW! This means he finds me attractive!"

 

Many revelations revealed in the past few days. My bestie was screaming at me last night saying I need to go back to therapy.

[reinventmyself]

I totally understand you. I have been you to some degree in the past. But I work on being aware of what I am doing and work on changing things. It doesn't stop who I am attracted to because that matrix runs deep. I am also aware that my `type' has not served me well.

 

I am currently dating that `nice, available' guy and I wrestle often on letting go because I don't feel that special chemistry.

So what exactly is that chemistry? Drama, Angst? I don't want to go there anymore.

 

I suggest you spend a little time by yourself, personally. Get to know you. Fill up your life so you aren't hungry and in turn you make better choices.

[reinventmyself]

"" am so twisted that my first thought was, "WOW! This means he finds me attractive!"

 

Yep! I've attracted a few narcissists in my life. I even married one. This is the monkey on my back so to speak.

I seem to be a magnet for them. I am attracted to them and loathe them at the same time. But I am getting better

 

I agree with your friend. Go back the therapy! You are like a dog with a bone right now.. I think the time for therapy would do you good with all your own personal insights recently.

[Naomi99]

I am currently dating that `nice, available' guy and I wrestle often on letting go because I don't feel that special chemistry.

So what exactly is that chemistry? Drama, Angst?

 

The unavailable guys are like Game of Thrones cliffhangers. You don't know what's going to happen, it's exciting, and you're willing to stay tuned and even pay the $20 HBO monthly fee because your need for drama is insatiable, even with a violent ending.

 

The available guys are like watching a sitcom of Three's Company on free network TV. Predictable, canned laughter, safe.

[Punki2719]

Maybe you're afraid he will say no?

[Moontiger]

Unavailable guy: Game of Thrones. Well written, interesting and exciting but you have no idea how it will end.

 

Available guy: Lord of the Rings. Still well written, interesting and exciting. But you know the ending.

[Naomi99]

Unavailable guy: Game of Thrones. Well written, interesting and exciting but you have no idea how it will end. .

 

GOT usually ends with a dagger in someone's heart. How symbolic. In this case, it will be my heart.

[boltnrun]

Drama relationship addict. Addicted to anxiety, adrenaline, uncertainty...BTW, none of these is "love". But they are often mistaken for "love".

[Naomi99]

you got the perfect relationship now but you want to ruin it with a commitment which only entails fighting getting on each others nerves aggravating each other..be realistic this is perfect keep it like that

 

You know, you have a point. My best friend told me if I can just stop being so emotional and just enjoy his company when we see each other, there is zero fighting, great conversations/food and passionate sex, why do I have to ruin it with panic?

 

I haven't heard from him in three days now. Since Sunday. And slowly the anxiety creeps in….