tiredofvampires Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He does care about you Naomi, don't think he does not. But he is staying away because he does not want to hurt and confuse you anymore than he already has. I'm curious how you know this as a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Maybe so, maybe not, TOV. You state it as if it were gospel. I don't agree. Why is it so difficult to accept that there are some people who decide to remain bachelors/singles are entitled to that choice, without being branded as some kind of "freak" or "having something going on". Geezze, without going any further than this forum, never mind in 3D, there sure are freakish things "going on" with some of the so called "acceptable" relationships, marriages, etc. I suppose the next thing I'll read here is that single women who remain "confirmed singles" should not have any kind of sexual relations and that there is "something wrong with them", or probably they'd be branded ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And why should HelpExpress state an opinion (even if second-guessing) when the rest of you have been doing exactly the same over 1.500+ posts, as if you all knew Dr. Who intimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think we've already gone past the mindreaders cliff a long time ago ... some people are calling the dude self-absorbed, emotionally stunted, even that he was stringing Naomi along. Not only are we not mindreaders, we don't really know his intentions (is he self-absorbed or oblivious) or his soul (is he more emotionally stunted than any other human being - whether in a relationship or not). From that perspective, I think it's OK to ask what he's been thinking because people have been doing that and beyond since this thread began based on his behaviors and what Naomi has shared. I think he's not contacting you because you asked him not to and he said he wouldn't. Cut and dry. Thinking of emotionally stunted, it seems like the Dr isn't interested in a relationship for whatever reason and does, like many people, have a need to share his emotions - which he did with Naomi. But I think this thread is most meaningful, because she is here and trying to improve herself, when we focus on Naomi. He's a mirror to her. And I suspect she is emotionally stunted, as she has admitted bravely some of her own issues that attracted her to someone who has barely made an effort since the beginning. So, I hope we can get back into the space where we were (for a little while) to encourage her to reflect on self and grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yes, Ms. Darcy. A considered and sensible post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Reeling back, you said you did not want marriage and children, you were not interested in his friends, you did not want him to meet yours, and I expect at some stage you told him all this. So, based on that, what else would he think except that you were on the same page as him and only into a "light relationship, or as Ms. Darcy puts it "fwb". A person can state all these things and still want a stable meaningful relationship. In fact, I would think in light of how much we have in common regarding kids/marriage/I don't care about ur family, it would be MORE stable relationship because no one is wrestling with the other for a ring or fertility treatments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yes, Ms. Darcy. A considered and sensible post. I edited to add more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well, so you would think, Naomi. You had in common a certain non-commitment vibe, so to speak. I am only asking, but would you have wanted to live with him, is that what you would have liked eventually. Then again, supposing he had agreed to that, it would still be difficult not to be in contact with his friends/family and he with yours. In general terms, a live together relationship where there would only be the two of you, and no contact with any "outsiders" (his/yours friends or relatives) would be a bit odd. Just some things I am thinking of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well, so you would think, Naomi. You had in common a certain non-commitment vibe, so to speak. I am only asking, but would you have wanted to live with him, is that what you would have liked eventually. Then again, supposing he had agreed to that, it would still be difficult not to be in contact with his friends/family and he with yours. In general terms, a live together relationship where there would only be the two of you, and no contact with any "outsiders" (his/yours friends or relatives) would be a bit odd. Just some things I am thinking of here. ? What kind of question is that? OF COURSE, I would want to meet his family if we were to live together, like anyone else. I haven't even SPENT the night there, so why would I even consider meeting his family? When I meet someone, my priority is not "oh my god, I have to meet your friends and family." For the most part, I care more about having fun and the dynamics of the person I am with; not presenting them like a show dog to my circle of friends. This will happen naturally in its own due course. Until then, I don't give a crap about his friends/family and what I do with mine is none of his business UNTIL I feel like the relationship is secure enough to open up that aspect of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Why is it so difficult to accept that there are some people who decide to remain bachelors/singles are entitled to that choice, without being branded as some kind of "freak" or "having something going on". Geezze, without going any further than this forum, never mind in 3D, there sure are freakish things "going on" with some of the so called "acceptable" relationships, marriages, etc. I am a bit guilty of this. I worked hard and for years to get married and did get married - particularly because I was motivated to have children within the context of marriage and for increased financial stability. Of course, the emotional support and commitment is a big part of it too! But it was a very practical goal. My grandmother was a child-bride and abused by her husband. She ran away from her husband and eventually was completely free and single (this was all in a foreign country by the way) starting in her 40s - raising 4 children all by herself. And she THRIVED. She was considered a wise elder in her village. She couldn't even read but she understood the concept of loans and interest and fought of men who tried to swindle her. There's a lot more to her story but the point is that being "single" - especially for older women was not a bad thing. In fact, if they were widowed or formerly married, their older/female/single was a sign of wisdom and they were respected. She stayed single for 50 years. Do I think she was stunted? I don't know. My mom doesn't think so. She lived for (and near) her children and her village community. She was not without. (And apparently not without occasional male company!!!) I wish I had her strength and courage. To be THAT independent and happy in her soul and spirit. To find companionship in community and not just a relationship. It always makes me feel like the story we create about relationships being the end-all just isn't everyone's truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 1. Do you think he's not contacting me because he respects my wishes? Or is it because he forgot about about me and doesn't care? 2. What do you think would happen if I texted him "Hey, I found a serious boyfriend. Let's be friends now!" Honestly…greek chorus, what say you?He was never a good friend to you. What makes you think he'd be a good one now? You're incompatible except for the fact that you like to cook and he likes to eat. Furgetttabouthim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I don't think I am stunted. I've given my heart completely to two men in my life and I know what it is to progress. I think the doctor is stunted. However…I think I am extremely guarded and apprehensive due to past experience to the point it stunts the growth of a relationship…and perhaps I attract stunted men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 perhaps I attract stunted men. I'd be more concerned that I wanted to keep such men in my life once its discovered that they are stunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofvampires Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Maybe so, maybe not, TOV. You state it as if it were gospel. I don't agree. I don't know what you're referring to. What are you talking about? What don't you "agree" with? I've said many things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I'd be more concerned that I wanted to keep such men in my life once its discovered that they are stunted. Latisse, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 1. Do you think he's not contacting me because he respects my wishes? Or is it because he forgot about about me and doesn't care? 2. What do you think would happen if I texted him "Hey, I found a serious boyfriend. Let's be friends now!" Honestly…greek chorus, what say you? That's why I'm not a big fan of telling someone not to contact me unless they've been crazily blowing up my phone. However, the one advantage of you having told him that is that you won't have to worry about will he/won't he because he most likely won't. One of the toughest things I find about the early stages of detachment is that I jump on every text that comes in because it might be 'him'. He's not contacting because he's just respecting your wishes as any mature adult would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 1. Do you think he's not contacting me because he respects my wishes? Or is it because he forgot about about me and doesn't care? 2. What do you think would happen if I texted him "Hey, I found a serious boyfriend. Let's be friends now!" Honestly…greek chorus, what say you? 1. I think he's just respecting your wishes. That's good. 2. I think if you texted him that, he would know you were lying and he would think you're silly and playing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I said "No need to keep in touch," and he said "I won't contact you anymore unless I hear from you first." He's the one who took it a step further and threw the ball in my court. He could have fought and said, "Wait, wait, wait. But I want to keep in touch. I don't like that option." Ugh. Feeling weak today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think when you are feeling weak, you have to go back and remember what it is that brought you here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 2. I think if you texted him that, he would know you were lying and he would think you're silly and playing games.I think he would think: "Awww, took her a while but I've seen it too many times so I've learned to be patient a bide my time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think he would think: "Awww, took her a while but I've seen it too many times so I've learned to be patient a bide my time." Yeah, I won't be contacting that mo-fo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yeah, I won't be contacting that mo-fo!!!! LMAO. If nothing else, I'm sure he's missing your quick wit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofvampires Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I'm just thinking, if Naomi was seeing a therapist (which I have suggested before, and she has said she thinks she ought to, continuing prior work [and what's going on with that...?]), and she asked, "Why do you think he's not calling? Is it because of x or y?" would a therapist say, "it's because he feels such-and-such way"? No therapist would respond to that question by trying to creep into this man's skull. Of course there are a lot of opinions on this thread, but opinions are qualitatively different. It's different to look at all the evidence of his behavior in the anecdotes Naomi tells and put two and two together about those events. For instance, he has done things that indicate he is not considerate of her, and takes her for granted. That he is not gentlemanly (like making her leave his place and drive home at 2 a.m.) He has demonstrated certain personality traits we can deduce form the circumstantial evidence. So offering the assessment (opinion) that this is selfish, inconsiderate behavior indicative of a man who does not love her is entirely a reasonable deduction. What's not reasonable is trying to play psychic as to what is his current thinking about Naomi when there is nothing to go on. Going on our own experiences and biases in relationships, or what we'd like to think, or what we'd hope is the case, or what it appears is just conjecture. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this man cares about Naomi and is respecting her wishes, that's why he's not calling. It's equally likely that he's washed his hands of her and wiped her out of his mind, and is on to the next one. And it's equally likely that he misses her because he misses the sex and pampering he got, but isn't calling because he's too prideful. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING in this picture that leads us to believe one more than the other, though I'm tempted to go with the "doesn't care about her anymore and is done with it" hypothesis. I am not giving into this temptation though. Whatever the factual evidence (his not calling), we don't and CAN'T know the motivation. If his thinking were a court case, it would be thrown out for lack of evidence. I think it's an exercise in futility honestly, that's all I'm saying. It's looking to emotionally feel better, find some confirmation, feel some sense of control. None of these things are going to come from speculating about this. I know I'm kinda standing alone in this perspective, but fwiw, I think it's important to avoid speculation like this as part of the healing process, because it only tangles you up in a futile effort to attach meaning and knowing to the unknown, and it's like scratching a mosquito bite until it bleeds. It's relief that doesn't amount to much but more trying to figure out someone whom we are not going to get to know any more after this point. I live my own trials and tribulations this way: I realize when I'm trying to extract comfort from a situation where no reassurance is to be found. And I therefore stop sugar-coating any fanciful thoughts to myself. If he'd cared enough about me to prevent this break-up, he would have cared enough. Period. That's all I need to know. How much did he care? SO LITTLE THAT LOSING ME DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL. Which = a BIG FAT ZERO to me. That's ZERO caring to me because it's not functional caring. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 What kind of question do you think it is?! Naomi. I am not writing in Japanese. YOU yourself said you had NO interest in meeting his friends (I seem to recall you said they seemed stuffy, like 60s Russian diplomats etc. etc. Where did I say it would be a "priority" (dear me you are SO touchy, or is it just with me) that you meet them immediately. Why would meeting someone's friends be a "dog show" (what an unpleasant comparison). You said and you did not say WHEN or at what stage, but you said you were not interested in seeing his friends or him seeing yours. That is all I am saying. No need to jump at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ms. Darcy. Of course it is laudable - as in your case - to wish to be married and have a family. I got married too, eventually LOL. But that doesn't mean that confirmed singles/bachelors haven't a right to remain that way if they so choose. It does NOT make them lesser persons, to be pilloried because of their singledom. I am beginning to think the only stunted people are those name-calling others "stunted". Geeze. Such tolerance...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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