8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[tiredofvampires]

I will NOT contact him to have sex or any other reason.

 

I'm just irritated he's not contacting me to have sex. Humph.

 

My biggest concern for you, Naomi, is that (and I said this at some other point) the only reason you're not going back to him is because he's not contacting YOU.

 

That's not a good position to be in. It's less of an active choice on your part in some ways, even though you called it off. Sustaining that is up to you as well, whatever he does.

 

To be honest? I think if he contacted you for sex or any other reason, within about 2-3 days, you'd be back in his sack. And 153 pages of thread would go "poof". I don't mean to sound like a ye of little faith person, but that's what I take from your comments and the feelings behind them.

 

I don't think you've had a chance to truly exercise maximal strength and determination yet. And maybe you won't have to, because he won't call to tempt you. But frankly, I think that there should be more standing in between your current resolve and sleeping with him again than the fact that he's not contacting YOU.

 

Remember how before, before you called it off and he was trying to contact you? And you said, "When will he relent? When does this persistence stop?" That's certainly not what you really wanted then, and it's what you want now.

 

You pulled the plug and you have your pride. But as you actually DO want him to contact you (and it was never otherwise -- his persistence was affirming to you, however ambivalent it made you feel), you are one doctor's text message away from the horizontal mambo with said doctor.

 

It's not a true relinquishment, and more *should* be holding you back than calls of omission from HIM.

 

Until this thread is about 4 months old (starting NOW), I wouldn't put it past him to contact you again (and maybe even after that, if his dating pool is running on the dry side), and right now, you're basically running on a prayer it doesn't happen because you are very vulnerable. Like I said...I think it'd all be over if he gave you the word, as of right now.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm saying, basically, you know you're truly acting in your best interests when you don't just say "no", but you say "no" again when the chance is dangled in front of your face to say "yes." That would be the ultimate statement of resolve.

 

This is kind of like an alcoholic trying to remain sober who has to be able to learn to say "no" even when people are drinking all around him at a party.

 

It's not enough just to keep alcohol out of your house to know that you're going to remain sober.

[Applewhite]

But how do we give thanks now? I give thanks to post #1531 by TOV. Her post also somewhat describes my situation, although I'd rather not admit it.

[ThatwasThen]

#1532: Great post TOV...

[browneyedgirl36]

I too would like to give "thanks" to TOV's post even though I can't do that in the Journals section.

 

I would add, too, that while TOV's concerns are 100% legit, what Naomi is experiencing is pretty normal. I went through a period where, if my ex had contacted me, I would have JUMPED at the chance to get back with him; the only thing keeping me from giving him yet another chance was that he wasn't asking for one. This phase lasted awhile. I remember saying to myself, "I wish I'd hear from him." Gradually, that turned into "I still wish I'd hear from him, but I know it's better that I don't, so it's good he's not contacting me." Later, it morphed into "If he contacted me, and wanted to see me, I'd turn him down." This drastic change was prior to me meeting my current guy, too, so it had nothing to do with meeting someone new.

 

So, yeah, it's going to be a precarious path for a bit. Gradually, though, Naomi will feel strong enough to NOT fall to pieces and run back if he contacts. It sounds, though, like he has some integrity (though he may lack in other areas), and he won't contact her now that she's asked him not to.

 

Eventually, this feeling will give way to "Eh. I can take him or leave him." It may be awhile, but it will happen. It nearly always does.

[abitbroken]

I will NOT contact him to have sex or any other reason.

 

I'm just irritated he's not contacting me to have sex. Humph.

 

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. You can't tell him you want more that he is not providing, ask him to not contact you, and then be upset he hasn't contacted you. If you tell him that you don't want him to contact you - then he might just respect you and respect that. He might have not wanted a serious relationship, but he doesn't seem the type to play too many games. It may take time to get over him, but healing is worth it.

[tiredofvampires]

Yeah, I've been where Naomi is too, BG. In fact, in all honesty, there's a part of me that's grappling with similar feelings about the guy I mentioned in this thread who recently entered and exited my life. So I get it.

 

And that's why I understand being vulnerable like this.

 

The difference is that in my case, I wish he'd call me so that I can say the things I should have said and didn't. I want to be given the second chance and to prove to myself that I'm strong enough and healthy enough nowadays to be able to walk away with grace and say, THANKS, YOU CAN KEEP IT. In former years I would have taken bait of various kinds, and I'd like to know I've come a ways since then.

 

So the only reason I'd like him to contact me again is so I can pass my own test. LOL Sad but true. But I know it would not be an easy test if he came back and said all the right things, things I wanted to hear then. If he said he was a damn fool who didn't know a good thing when it came out and hit him in the face, it would be a huge test. It's fortunate for me that the likelihood of that happening is about 1 in 10000000000000000, but I want it to be a triumph of more weight than just, "Well, he didn't come back to tempt me, so that's that."

 

Aren't people fascinating?

 

That's not even the highest road yet, though. I'd like to be able to get to the point that when I see something has been bad for me, I'm simply glad to let it go. Why? Because it was and is BAD/NOT RIGHT for me, and I have nothing else to prove to myself or anyone. It's just a simple fact I recognize, much like I'd recognize that I should stop sticking a toothpick in my eye because it's dangerous and hurts.

 

That would really be the healthiest thing of all.

 

But it's asking a lot of human nature, I suppose.

[Helpexpressme]

This is great Naomi that he is not contacting you. It should show you that his way of thinking is not wired on emotions. It's wired on lust. (Sex).

 

Yes it's a complete insult he didn't fight for you, but that's just it, he didn't fight for you.

 

I saw a picture of you (I think?) and it was absolutley gorgeous. He does not know what he's missing! He's an idiot!

[East4]

ToV you have been a lil too hard on Naomi here. I'm wondering if your post is in fact addressed to yourself and your situation.

 

I do think that she's handling the break up remarkably well-she's able to function normally (eats, sleeps), takes care of herself, goes to gym, talks to friends, has plans for an interesting hobby. Naomi is going through the roughest part of the break up aftermath, and she is a woman with a sensitive heart. The way I read her posting about her wish to be contacted by the doc. , is not so much because she cannot live without sex; it is more that she wants to be missed. She wants a validation that what they had was yes, flawed, but that it mattered, that she mattered to doc, even a little bit. Like he mattered to her. Having such a desire is only natural after one has shared body and intimacy with another person for a long time. It is not a weakness, it is a sign of being human.

 

Despite her hurting heart, she has the courage to look the reality in the face, and I do not worry about her, because she would be doing what she would be doing with her eyes wide open. And her eyes are wide open thankfully to this 154 page thread, so whatever she did, the advice is worth it. I also think that Naomi is in no obligation to make choices that would please the audience here. So, if she does something against the 154 page advice - tant pis!

 

The carelessness that you are talking about, ToV, will come later at the acceptance stage. Expecting Naomi to not care if doc contacts her, is too much to ask at this rough stage.

[Silverbirch]

Another great post TOV, and I have grappled with these types of feelings in the past too. I read somewhere recently, maybe on a budhist site that all of this about our pride and thinking we want a confrontation so that we don't feel so bad about ourselves - and its just a waste of time and energy really. What takes strength and what is really more worthwhile is to master the art of non-engagement. I so liked that thread on ENA "Nonchalance Is a Your Friend". Non-engagement I suppose might be a more extreme form of nonchalance.

 

Also, it also said that its normal to miss a person you no longer have engagement with even if you know that you really don't want that person in your life.

[tiredofvampires]

ToV you have been a lil too hard on Naomi here. I'm wondering if your post is in fact addressed to yourself and your situation.

 

No, East. It's not about my situation or projecting that onto her. I only brought up my situation to show that I'm not above such thoughts and feelings, but I am feeling pretty disengaged from my guy. I'm not pining and feeling the way Naomi is (though I've been there before with relationships ending, just not recently). Also, I didn't get as intimate and for as long as Naomi, with the recent guy.

 

I am just speaking to what I sense as enough vulnerability that if the doctor called and said anything, let alone that he missed her, let alone sex, I think she's at high risk, at least right now. That's just how I see it, based on her comments. I think if he called and said "fig newton" in a sexy voice, it might be enough. And that's purely conjecture, I know. But I don't think anyone on this board -- even Naomi -- really knows how she'd react to that.

 

Yes, she's handling the breakup well, and isn't falling to pieces, but my impressions stand. Since he's not contacting her, there is the luxury to be irritated at him for not doing what in "real life" would bring her agony.

Expecting Naomi to not care if doc contacts her, is too much to ask at this rough stage.

 

I did not voice such an expectation. I voiced the concern that should he call her, it could be a real problem (so, watch what you ask for, kinda...) Didn't say this wasn't normal either. Lots of things are normal but not desirable, so that leaves room for self-reflection and improvement.

 

Hopefully he'll not call (and I don't think it's because he's respectful or has integrity, I think it's because he's washed his hands of her and is on to the next, very bloodlessly) and all will proceed from here without his upturning the applecart.

 

I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just being real. I'd rather know my weaknesses and the dangers so I can anticipate a bit, personally.

[tiredofvampires]

I read somewhere recently, maybe on a budhist site that all of this about our pride and thinking we want a confrontation so that we don't feel so bad about ourselves

 

Oh, yes, this totally makes sense. I feel that I lost a bit of dignity trying to leave on amicable terms, instead of prioritizing speaking my truth fully without reserve. And I regret that -- so I wish I had another shot at it in a way.

 

In another though, as you said, it's a waste of energy. It's still a function of the mechanisms of ego and clinging (so I can see how it would be mentioned by a Buddhist source). Needing appreciation and recognition are essential to human relationships, but there is also the art of letting go of how you're perceived, because in the end, what are you trying to prove and why? It's such an absurd and futile game when you dig deep into it. And yes, I said GAME. Such utterly diminishing returns. It's a disappointing sport.

 

All this has actually sped up my getting over aforementioned dude. Asking myself, "Why do you need his reaction? How does that serve you?" And breaking that down. When I deconstruct that, I'm left with no pretty answers.

 

I'll have to check out that thread about nonchallance. Haven't seen it. Thanks for mentioning it!

[East4]

I think if he called and said "fig newton" in a sexy voice, it might be enough. And that's purely conjecture, I know. But I don't think anyone on this board -- even Naomi -- really knows how she'd react to that.

We can worry about things when they happen.

 

Hopefully he'll not call (and I don't think it's because he's respectful or has integrity, I think it's because he's washed his hands of her and is on to the next, very bloodlessly) and all will proceed from here without his upturning the applecart

 

I think doc is not contacting Naomi, because this is how he understands "fair play".

[tiredofvampires]

I think doc is not contacting Naomi, because this is how he understands "fair play".

 

Well, I think none of us knows this guy or what's in his head...for all we know, he's mildly sociopathic. It's complete conjecture.

 

As for worrying, what can I say. I'm a worrier, lol. Nah, I'm just kidding (not really, I am a worrier, but not in this context) -- what I am, is I'm the type to want to know what I'm dealing with -- as I said, know my weaknesses and so be vigilant. Observing my own hook-ability. That's important to me, but that's me.

[Silverbirch]

I tried to find that article on non-engagement TOV. I wanted to read it again for my own benefit because it can be applicable to quite a lot of things in various contexts. Of course, It's not about going and living alone on top of a mountain and totally not engaging with others. When I was googling I did see a lot of references to "Detachment" and "Letting Go".

 

Yes, for me also, by engaging in confrontations to deal with my shattered ego, I kept getting reeled back into a very unhealthy relationship. Life is short and that was a waste of time.

 

Oh, the Non-chalance thread was started by a guy named CrapAtNC. LOL

[Hermes]

Agree with you here TOV.

 

"My biggest concern for you, Naomi, is that (and I said this at some other point) the only reason you're not going back to him is because he's not contacting YOU."

 

And yes, this man may well contact Naomi again. You are right about that too.

 

I just don-t understand how everyone seems to "know" how this man is thinking. What makes anyone think, for example, that he has a "dating pool" out there. I hold no brief for Dr. Who, I don-t even know the man (neither does anyone on here except Naomi), and we don't even know how they met in the first instance. He is a 56 yo confirmed bachelor, who does not want a long-term relationship (like many other confirmed singles/bachelors). That's basically it.

[Ms Darcy]

I firmly believe in "fake it til you make it."

 

To a certain extent, I think this is Naomi's situation in that she's not initiating contact. Thank goodness, he's not either. At first, she's not reaching out but hoping he will. After a while, she'll slip into total indifference and acceptance.

 

No contact until you are healed.

 

This has helped me wondrously in past relationships/break-ups.

[Hermes]

Agreed, Ms. Darcy. NC is the only way.

[Naomi99]

I thank everyone for their responses.

 

It's only been eight days since his last text. I am not expecting him to contact me this soon, if he were to, or if ever again. I will be truthful and say hell yeah I wish he'd contact. But there are two things I have to remember:

1. He left the ball in my court ( "I won't contact you unless I hear from you first.")

2. If he does contact me, he violates two offenses...his promise and my wish.

 

 

On the other hand, I am torn because as much as I want him to contact me, it would more likely than not for sex, which shows that's all he thought of me as...POAS.

 

And if he doesn't contact me, it can mean he really truly respects my wishes....OR he has washed his hands clean of me and doesn't give a crap.

 

As for me, it doesn't really matter the reason why I am not contacting him. I'm simply not contacting him. I will sit with my decision and live with it and let it play out. Who knows what impact this will have on me three months from now? Feels horrible now but I havent given it a chance to come to fruition as its only been eight days. Maybe he gains respect. Maybe he has an epiphany. Maybe I fall in love with my next door neighbor. Maybe he dates others and realizes I was the bomb and the other chicks are duds. Whatever it is, I know I come out with a lot more experience as horrible as I feel right now.

[journeynow]

Your feelings are entirely understandable, IMO. Hang in there, and remember you ARE FABULOUS and doing great. Going through the mucky emotions are part of getting into the clear and healing. I even think the thoughts you're having are understandable, especially since your relationship was so physical, it's a physical withdrawal you're going through, all those brain chemicals / hormones run amok. Do good things for yourself, be kind to you, you're healing.

[Naomi99]

This is parallel with how I feel. I know I keep joking about the sex, and I'm not going to lie and say I don't miss it, but contacting me is more about him having the balls to reach out to someone who is younger and more vulnerable; perhaps making me feel okay with my decision or even just confirming that, no, I wasn't just POAS to him. Or, yes, I was just POAS. Anything to reveal what he's feeling, even it is just sex one last time. I still don't know what I was. Lover? Booty call? This whole breakup thing has been horrible because I've been taking the lead and he's just "okay whatever dear" without telling me how he feels in his heart or giving any validation or recognition or explanation other than "I can't give you more than this…" Like a robot. At the least, him reaching out would tell me he's thought about me.

 

Bottom line: He doesn't love me. So screw it.

 

 

 

Yes, like I said, from this point forward if I go back (doubtful), I will be doing so fully aware that he is a bloodless turnip that doesn't give a crap about my best interest.

 

 

 

 

If the doctor contacts me and says, "I'd like to take you to Paris for the weekend," I'm doubt I'm going to say, "No, thank you. I decline because I will be disappointing all the folk at enotalone.com."

 

I'm going!!!

[Naomi99]

. I think if he called and said "fig newton" in a sexy voice, it might be enough. And that's purely conjecture, I know. But I don't think anyone on this board -- even Naomi -- really knows how she'd react to that.

 

I can tell you exactly what I would say if he said "fig newton" in a sexy voice.

I would say, "I want you to fig my brains out."

 

 

. Hopefully he'll not call (and I don't think it's because he's respectful or has integrity, I think it's because he's washed his hands of her and is on to the next, very bloodlessly) and all will proceed from here without his upturning the applecart..

 

He is not going to contact me because of three things: 1. He threw the ball in my court. 2. He would be disrespecting my wishes. 3. He would be breaking his promise.

 

Personally I think we painted ourselves into a corner with this one. Me saying "don't contact me" and him saying "I won't contact you unless I hear from you first."

 

Two prideful stubborn people = Mexican standoff.

[tiredofvampires]

I can tell you exactly what I would say if he said "fig newton" in a sexy voice.

I would say, "I want you to fig my brains out."

 

Well, there you go, then.

 

Referencing something East4 said,

 

It is not a weakness, it is a sign of being human

 

there is nothing contradictory about being both weak AND human.

 

It's all human.

[Applewhite]

Naomi, if Doc or ManBoobs contacts - do you want to make a pact to make sure we reach out to each other before we do anything else? Although I suspect you'd write in your thread asap anyway, am I right?

[Naomi99]

I would love to but I'm not on the forum all the time. Only when I work from home or at line in Whole Foods.

 

I can pretty much guarantee Doctor is not going to contact me. He would consider it too high school and he's too sophisticated for that (BARF.)

 

There's a better chance Poker will contact you before Doctor contacts me because Poker hasn't, shall we say, poked you yet. So there's still a mysterious lure.