bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's not sexy to walk around proclaiming to every date that is your goal. There is no mystery in that, no chase, and no spark. How boring to walk around all day, saying to every man "I want a relationship". Love is a game, and that is not fun. So yes for me, I would run for the hills. This. And note this is coming from a guy. Also Ms Darcy, I think you're making too many assumptions in the post above. No way ever would I engage in sex/girlfriend type behaviours to get a guy in a relationship. If I felt at any point that I would want a relationship with him, then I would most definitely have the talk and let him know. I'm talking about what to tell complete strangers - to me going up to a complete stranger and saying 'hey so what are you looking for with the opposite sex because just to let you know, I'm only looking for a serious relationship' is a bit unnatural. After a few dates, sure we can talk more specifically about what we are looking for with each other. But as Apple's story illustrates, sometimes a few dates is a few dates too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yeah, i'm not sure if Carol would digest anything right now. sigh. As for what you miss about him - I miss those things with my ex too - planning meals, picking out the recipe he will like, the way he hugged me while I was cooking.... but like someone on my own journal said, those are just things that all couples do, not something that is specific to your ex. You will have all these things again with your new boyfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 This. And note this is coming from a guy. Also Ms Darcy, I think you're making too many assumptions in the post above. No way ever would I engage in sex/girlfriend type behaviours to get a guy in a relationship. If I felt at any point that I would want a relationship with him, then I would most definitely have the talk and let him know. I'm talking about what to tell complete strangers - to me going up to a complete stranger and saying 'hey so what are you looking for with the opposite sex because just to let you know, I'm only looking for a serious relationship' is a bit unnatural. After a few dates, sure we can talk more specifically about what we are looking for with each other. But as Apple's story illustrates, sometimes a few dates is a few dates too many. As a really extreme example, I clicked on an Okcupid profile of a man who looked at my profile. Flipped through the photos. Then he said on his profile that he was a Trans Man. I was shocked because no way from the photos would I have ever guessed that because he looked very manly. I appreciate it that he put it out there on his profile, instead of waiting 5 dates or something. There are pros and cons to waiting to reveal a big secret like that about yourself, but I think he did the right thing. Women who want biological children can skip his profile, more open minded women can contact him. He could have taken the other approach and waited and not told "a complete stranger" what he was looking for, but I think good for him - it's good to be straight up about what you are looking for because it clarifies things for all. He obviously wants a person who accepts him, as we should all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbirch Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I met my husband through OK Cupid. We had two phone conversations before we met and we had a similar conversation as you describe Annie. Congrats Ms Darcy. I didn't realise you had married but I do recall you finally meeting someone who ticked all the boxes and he seems very nice from what you write about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 And I just added to my post above, that there is a search function on many dating sites where you can find men who have indicated the same type of relationship you are looking for. Like, you can search for men who have indicated "marriage", for instance. Or "friends". Or "casual sex." A lot of men lie, too. Because who is going to put "casual sex" knowing it's going to narrow their pool since many women wouldn't be open to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's not sexy to walk around proclaiming to every date that is your goal. There is no mystery in that, no chase, and no spark. How boring to walk around all day, saying to every man "I want a relationship". Love is a game, and that is not fun. So yes for me, I would run for the hills. EXACTLY THIS!!!! I find it unattractive if some man declared that at the start, so I would never do that myself. How about I have all boxes ticked…and if things unfold naturally and end up being a great relationship, then a huge bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Why can't it be all three of these things, in succession? Looking around, go with the flow, then start a relationship? Doesn't have to be one or none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's beyond me why beating around the bush is so mysterious and attractive, but to each their own I guess. For me it's wishy washy and a potential waste of time and emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofvampires Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's beyond me why beating around the bush is so mysterious and attractive, but to each their own I guess. For me it's wishy washy and a potential waste of time and emotions. AGREED. Casting my vote here. I don't have to come up to a man, shake his hand, and say, "Hi, I'm (TOV), and I'd like a serious relationship". Talk to a person for about an hour, and you can get some sense of what their emotional leaning/proclivity might be. Talk for a whole date, and it becomes even more clear. The art of conversation is still applicable here. Online dating makes intentions even more explicit. If a man writes, "I'm looking for my best friend to share a life with", I certainly don't have to come to our first date with a script and an interrogation. There are a million ways to be sexy without being a chaser or a chasee, to put on an aura of mystery, or to play at "games." Sexy to me is a man who I don't have to guess with, but who also is complex and self-sufficient enough that despite his clear interest in me, I don't feel that he's looking for a relationship to fill a void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's beyond me why beating around the bush is so mysterious and attractive, but to each their own I guess. For me it's wishy washy and a potential waste of time and emotions. It's not beating around the bush but giving both sides a chance to interact in person to let things naturally unfold and decide how/if they want to take things forward. Who knows you might meet someone who ends up being a good platonic friend and introducing you to the guy of your dreams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 AGREED. Casting my vote here. I don't have to come up to a man, shake his hand, and say, "Hi, I'm (TOV), and I'd like a serious relationship". Talk to a person for about an hour, and you can get some sense of what their emotional leaning/proclivity might be. Talk for a whole date, and it becomes even more clear. The art of conversation is still applicable here. Online dating makes intentions even more explicit. If a man says, "I'm looking for my best friend to share a life with", I certainly don't have to come to our first date with a script and an interrogation. In my experience, guys who say on their profile that they're looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with are generally pretty desperate. Just saying from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 In my experience, guys who say on their profile that they're looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with are generally pretty desperate. Just saying from my experience. How did you realize they were desparate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 How did you realize they were desparate? General overeagerness, too much texting/familiarity before even meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I like texting/calling and getting excited about the guy before I meet him. In fact I just told a guy I won't be meeting him, because we started talking a few days ago and there was no excited texts, wanting to ask each other questions etc. I have limited time for dating and my time is VERY valuable. I won't just give a date to any random Joe. Certainy no random Joe who answers "meh I don't know, I just go with the flow". That is super unattractive to me. He can 'flow' in some other direction - away from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's not beating around the bush but giving both sides a chance to interact in person to let things naturally unfold and decide how/if they want to take things forward. Who knows you might meet someone who ends up being a good platonic friend and introducing you to the guy of your dreams! Exactly this. If you state outright "I'm dating because I want a long-term commitment," you've just revealed your hand. How do you know the guy isn't going to "behave" like he wants a long-term relationship just to get you into bed, then change his tune later? Or behave like he wants a long-term because he finds you hot and there's nothing else to do? Conversely, maybe they didn't want a relationship from the start, but after getting to know you, they decide wow, you could be the one. That would never ever happen if you walked around saying "I want a relationship, I want a relationship" because most people would bolt and wouldn't even give a chance to get to know you. I know I would. If you just let things play out naturally, with enough time and interaction, I believe you get a better sense of who the person is with zero pressure. Then you can decide if you really want to continue on with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Well how long can he keep the pretense up Naomi? With PokerPlayer it took 7-8? dates for me to figure out he didn't mean what he said. How long do you think one will act like he wants a relationship to get some? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months and 2 family dinners/gatherings? Or I could have not asked him, 'went with the flow' aka. 'let things play out naturally' and slept with him for 8 months... (sorry if that sounds mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 General overeagerness, too much texting/familiarity before even meeting. Agreed again. I've been on dates with men like this, and I felt like they were dating because they wanted a relationship, not because they actually liked me but any woman who wanted a relationship would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Agreed again. I've been on dates with men like this, and I felt like they were dating because they wanted a relationship, not because they actually liked me but any woman who wanted a relationship would do. You're entitled to think that, and it may even be true for some of the men. But it would be a logical fallacy to conclude that all of them are like that. Sometimes you just know from the sparkle of the interaction that indeed that is not the case, indeed it's something magical in the interaction - an honest, open interaction. You prefer seeing the magic in blank and mysterious conversations. But that is kind of like falling for the imaginary version of the person than the real person. The real person has thoughts, preferences, goals you are unaware of, because you think it is more magical to not ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofvampires Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I don't know if we're talking about meeting someone organically or on a dating site, but I have my profile on two sites (well, a couple more, but mostly inactive there), and I cover ALL the bases. It's clear I'm looking for something deep and lasting/serious, but I also say that I want things to develop by sharing experiences and becoming friends first, that that's important to me. I also state my life philosophies: that happiness is an inside job; that I'm looking for someone who shares the notion that we are not "looking" for love, but looking to give love from a wellspring that is already in our hearts. I state that I want a man who is fulfilled in himself but who wants a partner to share a mutual journey together where we bring out the best in eachother, and become better versions of ourselves through our bond. So I did not use the word "desperate" there once, even though it's clearly implied that I do not want a desperate person, and am not desperate. And if you are good at finessing words, every word matters. It's not the same to say, "I want someone to share my life with" and "I want to find someone to spend the rest of my life with." Both may be true, but the tone conveys a different emphasis, so I'd pick up on those subtleties. It's not either/or. Either you're being blunt and totally unsubtle about an agenda, or you're just seeing where things go without any goal. You can say and convey anything you'd like -- as multifaceted as you'd like. This has become a conversation about cardboard cut-outs as scripts, it seems. As though it's one extreme or the other. If you state outright "I'm dating because I want a long-term commitment," you've just revealed your hand You see, just putting it like that..."you've revealed your hand" is just the attitude that I think will steer you in the wrong direction, and reveals something that is not part of a guileless process. It's one thing to say, "I'm going to talk with this person and feel them out" -- which is fine. It's another to say, "I'm not going to reveal my hand right away". That's a game there. That's a game mindset. If you start with games, you'll end with games. That will shape the kinds of relationships you get into, who you seek, everything. It's not a small, semantic point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also while you are worrying about "not revealing your hand" about wanting a relationship and not asking what the other person's goals are, he is worrying about "not revealing his hand" about wanting a FWB situation, and hoping you don't ask...ideally for 8+ months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Well how long can he keep the pretense up Naomi? With PokerPlayer it took 7-8? dates for me to figure out he didn't mean what he said. How long do you think one will act like he wants a relationship to get some? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months and 2 family dinners/gatherings? Or I could have not asked him, 'went with the flow' aka. 'let things play out naturally' and slept with him for 8 months... (sorry if that sounds mean) The difference is you feel angry with what happened to you, and I am not angry with what happened to me. I'm happy that it went on as long as it did. Not once in these 135-pages will you read me complaining it went on too long. I have zero regrets about my time spent with the doctor at all nor do I feel he wasted my time. In fact, if I stated "I want a serious relationship" at the start (which I'm not even sure I wanted that at the time or even now), and he most likely would have bolted, I never would have gotten to spend time with him, explore my sexuality, experience what it was like to date someone 16 years older. This is one of the sexiest relationships I've ever had and I am super sad it ended. Even his last text to me "I would be honored and very happy to be your friend," in my eyes, is a success story, even though I'm sad as hell right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes but I think the difference between you and me (that you didn't know until this post), is I have done this before - something similar to you and Doc, felt the same way you do about it with a previous guy. That experience taught me so much and years after the fact, I don't look at it much differently now than I did then. And it is also what allowed me to break away in just 1 month with PokerPlayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also while you are worrying about "not revealing your hand" about wanting a relationship and not asking what the other person's goals are, he is worrying about "not revealing his hand" about wanting a FWB situation, and hoping you don't ask...ideally for 8+ months. Perhaps the doctor and I were suited to dating each other then, because we both held our cards close to our chest and just enjoying each other without definition. I wasn't even sure if I wanted a relationship at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Do you know what you want now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes but I think the difference between you and me (that you didn't know until this post), is I have done this before - something similar to you and Doc, felt the same way you do about it with a previous guy. That experience taught me so much and years after the fact, I don't look at it much differently now than I did then. And it is also what allowed me to break away in just 1 month with PokerPlayer. Yeah, I didn't know that. I think you are more sure of what you want than I am, so it's easier for you to state without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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