ThatwasThen Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Here, to put it bluntly, he probably wouldn't date ThatwasThen either (not that she wants to, but she's not saying she wants to meet him or have a convo with him like Hermes did.) ThatwasThen would rip him a new A hole.*Laughing my A off here* If anything, I'd play the part just to get the good sex but I'd do it without expectation. Then I'd do what you've done when It got old. I wouldn't go out of my way to cook for him though... even though I like to cook. Just keep it real. In and out... "see ya next time." I learned (the hard way, without the benefit of online friends who don't pull punches) a long time ago how to separate my lust from love. You're learning that too, all in due time, Naomi, all in due time. (I'd shoot you an appropriate emo but the graphics suck lol) *Edited for sentence structure and clarity* and Edited to add applicable cheesy 80's video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 We're just saying that some people who are not upfront about their intentions are wrong for doing so. How is anyone supposed to guess that their 'date' is not looking for a relationship when that is the usual goal of dating? And if they know your intentions are for something serious then they should even moreso make their own intentions clear. I agree with you blue for the most part, but I go back to this point. The usual goal of dating is a relationship? I can only say in my experience on this site, that's not what I have observed. Perhaps for women, the most common purpose for dating is a relationship. Now this is a skewed sample, but anecdotally, I have seen more men and a bunch of women date for the purpose of "seeing what's out there" or "seeing where it goes." Hardly looking for a relationship. Often it's after a tough break up and they are looking for an ego boost/wanting to practice. Can that turn into a relationship? Yes. But not always. So there are people like you and I who are goal-oriented (I want a relationship, I want marriage, etc.) And there are others who are process oriented (I want to see how it FEELS to date, I want to go with the flow, etc.) The outcome is incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks TWT. You are kind. I think someone said most of the people on the thread are single. I don't know, but some are in relationships. Some are married. TWT has been married forever. I value her input and agree with it most of the time. It's good to get diverse perspectives - from single and coupled. That's not a diss; just saying I like the diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 The question is would any of us have dated him? I was thinking the same thing. I don't think anyone else would be interested in dating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Hey, Ms. Darcy. Here I am in the green isle, and getting more intrigued by the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeynow Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Here, to put it bluntly, he probably wouldn't date ThatwasThen either (not that she wants to, but she's not saying she wants to meet him or have a convo with him like Hermes did.) ThatwasThen would rip him a new A hole. He wouldn't date me, cuz I'd be like "I'm asleep now honey, sorry, can't leave 'til the sun's fully up and I've had my coffee…."(mmm, snuggle, snuggle). And he'd probably back over my chicken casserole on the driveway and be too overwhelmed to continue with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LickitySplit Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This all sounds rather Greys Anatomy if I'm to be completely honest. It's Derek and Meredith in the early years. However, OP, I do not think this man will ever initiate a long term commitment like Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 And there are others who are process oriented (I want to see how it FEELS to date, I want to go with the flow, etc.) The outcome is incidental. That is more my style. You put it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 He wouldn't date me, cuz I'd be like "I'm asleep now honey, sorry, can't leave 'til the sun's fully up and I've had my coffee…."(mmm, snuggle, snuggle). And he'd probably back over my chicken casserole on the driveway and be too overwhelmed to continue with me. I tried that one time and I felt horrible. He lay beside me with his eyes wide open the whole night, tossing and turning, and I was wall aware he was wide awake and it made me not able to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I'm still stuck on when you said you don't expect anything from anyone, but here you are upset because you didn't get anything from him. It kind of reminds me of the people who say "oh no, I don't want anyone to make a big fuss over my birthday, a card is fine!"...then get upset when no one buys them flowers or takes them out to a nice dinner or throws them a party. Um, didn't you say you didn't want anyone to make a fuss??? So, my birthday is coming up and I already told everyone I want a fuss. I said I want balloons and a clown and a pony and a bounce house with an inflatable slide and a carrot cake and some Mexican food. I'm only half kidding, but I love to be fussed over on my birthday, so I ask for the big fuss. I already know I'm getting taken out to dinner by my kids and my coworkers are doing the Mexican food and the cake (no confirmation on the clown or the bounce house...yet). And no, the "fuss" doesn't lose value because I had to ask for it. I am a huge advocate for asking for what you want being the best way to get what you want. And I don't think that asking politely, using "please" and "thank you" is being aggressive or confrontational. Yes, sometimes people look at me kind of funny because they are not used to people being direct. Lots of people hint, or try to show through "actions", or even act passive aggressive to get what they want. I simply ask and yes, some are taken aback. But most of them say it's refreshing to deal with someone with whom they don't have to guess. But...I get that not everyone is comfortable with that approach. I find it works for me and I have a pretty good record of actually getting what I ask for. And if the answer is no, I'll live. But at least I asked. Food for thought for next time maybe, Naomi. I think you're way too good to not get what you want from a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeynow Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I tried that one time and I felt horrible. He lay beside me with his eyes wide open the whole night, tossing and turning, and I was wall aware he was wide awake and it made me not able to sleep. Aw, bummer. Yeah, I'd be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, Bolt. I agree. You said: "I am a huge advocate for asking for what you want being the best way to get what you want." and" And I don't think that asking politely, using "please" and "thank you" is being aggressive or confrontational". I also think it is plain good manners to express yourself clearly, so that people don't have to guess or wonder. I mean this in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm still stuck on when you said you don't expect anything from anyone, but here you are upset because you didn't get anything from him. I am trying to figure that out too. I think what it is, I'd rather have things come from the heart as opposed to me asking or expecting. It's more meaningful to me this way. So, my birthday is coming up and I already told everyone I want a fuss. I said I want balloons and a clown and a pony and a bounce house with an inflatable slide and a carrot cake and some Mexican food. I'm only half kidding, but I love to be fussed over on my birthday, so I ask for the big fuss. I already know I'm getting taken out to dinner by my kids and my coworkers are doing the Mexican food and the cake (no confirmation on the clown or the bounce house...yet). And no, the "fuss" doesn't lose value because I had to ask for it. I am a huge advocate for asking for what you want being the best way to get what you want. Are you a Leo??? And I don't think that asking politely, using "please" and "thank you" is being aggressive or confrontational. Yes, sometimes people look at me kind of funny because they are not used to people being direct. Lots of people hint, or try to show through "actions", or even act passive aggressive to get what they want. I simply ask and yes, some are taken aback. But most of them say it's refreshing to deal with someone with whom they don't have to guess. But...I get that not everyone is comfortable with that approach. I find it works for me and I have a pretty good record of actually getting what I ask for. And if the answer is no, I'll live. But at least I asked. Food for thought for next time maybe, Naomi. The things I want to know, sometimes I'm not entitled to know and have no grounds to ask. For instance some people have no problem asking "Why aren't you married?" or "Why don't you have kids?" It's no one's business, really. People have asked me that and it makes me want to slap them and send them to etiquette school. When people come to my house, I have absolutely no problem saying, "Would you mind taking off your shoes? Thanks!" because it's my house. When I go to other people's houses, I don't feel entitled to ask for what I want because that's their house. I think that plays a significant role in me not speaking up readily about the doctor moving his car over..it's his car, his driveway, his property. Along with he's older, slower, sometimes hurting. I think you're way too good to not get what you want from a relationship. you're going to make me cry. xoxoxoxoxox love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I was thinking the same thing. I don't think anyone else would be interested in dating him. I agree…via posts, you all seem like spitfires and you would not be interested and he wouldn't either. He is very particular, does not like controversy. He can't even handle a moth stuck in his window without flipping out. I feel like I'm more on the timid and passive side of this group (even though I swear like a sailor and have a dirty mind) and I think that's why the dynamic worked so long with us, most certainly in the bedroom, until I didn't want to be drama-free POAS anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I agree…via posts, you all seem like spitfires and you would not be interested and he wouldn't either. He is very particular, does not like controversy. He can't even handle a moth stuck in his window without flipping out. I feel like I'm more on the timid and passive side of this group (even though I swear like a sailor and have a dirty mind) and I think that's why the dynamic worked so long with us, most certainly in the bedroom, until I didn't want to be drama-free POAS anymore. Well, I only say I wouldn't be interested because of the age difference. I can find myself feeling passive or timid about a lot of things. I try to use wit and humor to communicate my needs. When my husband and I first starting talking on the phone, I didn't ask him out but I said: "You know, if you asked me out, I wouldn't say no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I agree…via posts, you all seem like spitfires and you would not be interested and he wouldn't either. He is very particular, does not like controversy. He can't even handle a moth stuck in his window without flipping out. I feel like I'm more on the timid and passive side of this group (even though I swear like a sailor and have a dirty mind) and I think that's why the dynamic worked so long with us, most certainly in the bedroom, until I didn't want to be drama-free POAS anymore. I think you should work on differentiating "drama" from "being true to yourself." I think of dramatic behavior as the person who slams doors, has a melt-down over nothing, changes moods in a heartbeat, screaming matches followed by wild make out sessions, etc.... It's ok when you are in a couple to not cater to the other person 100% of the time. You can ask him questions and make requests. My friend Carol is now kicking herself because she thinks she "pushed away" her Mr. Unavailable by asking about their relationship status 8 months in. Even Mr. Unavailable himself didn't think that was a pushy or unreasonable question after 8 months. Imagine starting a job without signing a contract. Maybe the first few days, it would be ok, especially if the HR person is on vacation.... but at some point, you're going to want a contract and know where things stand and when the paycheck and benefits start! Not that a relationship is about paychecks and benefits, but I'm just trying to get it accross that it's ok to want clarification on the situation, and that is not "pushy" or "drama." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I don't ask people personal questions. And I don't pry. Asking for what I want means I will ask for a certain gift for my birthday, or to go out for a certain type of food, or for clarification if I'm unsure of my status in a relationship. I flat out asked an ex if he was sleeping with other women ( he was and lied). I will ask if a guy I'm seeing wants me to drive to him all the time, if he 'll drive to me instead. If I need help at work I ask for it. I say "excuse me" if a shopper is blocking an aisle at the grocery store. If a guy stays overnight at my place I ask him to put his wet towel on the rack and not on the floor. If I'm staying over at his place I will ask for an extra blanket if I'm cold. I find this approach much more effective than outwardly accepting someone's behavior but privately feeling mistreated, underappreciated, rejected or taken advantage of, and I don't have to fret over never receiving anything I would like to have. If I ask and the answer is no, at least I asked. The flip side of course is that I have to be willing to give as much as I get. And I am pleased to do so. Just trying to clarify what I meant by "asking for what you want". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Nope, not a Leo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 The things I want to know, sometimes I'm not entitled to know and have no grounds to ask. For instance some people have no problem asking "Why aren't you married?" or "Why don't you have kids?" It's no one's business, really. People have asked me that and it makes me want to slap them and send them to etiquette school. When people come to my house, I have absolutely no problem saying, "Would you mind taking off your shoes? Thanks!" because it's my house. When I go to other people's houses, I don't feel entitled to ask for what I want because that's their house. I think that plays a significant role in me not speaking up readily about the doctor moving his car over..it's his car, his driveway, his property. Along with he's older, slower, sometimes hurting. Ok so I think someone already responded to this part, but I can't help myself.... Naomi I agree with you that some stuff people ask (eg. Are you having kids! When are you having kids?! When are you two getting married?!) is impolite and even downright rude. It indeed is personal, and non of their business and they are assclowns for even asking. They are not entitled to that information, nor did they consider how the other person would feel when they asked (and if they did consider it, they are even more awful). There are other circumstances however that just by nature someone is *entitled* to ask certain things. For instance, if someone welcomes you into your home through an unspoken contract you are entitled to ask for water (unless of course that person turns out axe murderer...although even then they may agree you are entitled to at least ask for water). If you are in school, you are entitled to ask your teacher to repeat something. If you are having surgery done on your body, you are entitled to ask your doctor the risks - not just by law but also by any reasonable ethics. Sharing your body emotions and even time with someone (these are all very valuable!) also by societal norm, if not anything else, entitles one to ask for certain things. Examples include but are not limited to: 1) Is it possible for me to park in the driveway so I don't have walk uphill when I drive home 2) Can I sleep over, because it's 2 AM and I am not sure it is safe to drive home 3) Are you sleeping with anyone else (because if you are, that is like I am sleeping with multiple people too, since we sleep together) 4) What are the terms of our relationship, what can I expect from you and what do you expect from me 5) If we are going to spend so much time together, I'd like to know you better. That requires seeing you around other people, especially people that are significant in your life. Is that something you are comfortable with? I agree that some of these are better if you *don't* have to ask them. And if they are important enough to you that you are turned off that you *do* have to ask them (they are not readily available, offered) you must make the decision of whether you want to walk away. If you do not think not having access to this info without asking is a complete deal breaker, then you have to deal with the asking. There is just no other way. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I couldn't sleep and was browsing FB. (I am still thinking of PokerPlayer and losing sleep, getting headaches by the way. I also fell a while back and really hurt myself. I think it was partially bc I was so stressed about him.) Anyway I found this *amazing* an extremely eye opening article. Please take a look. link removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also I just fought off a STRONG urge to send a message to PokerPlayer to ask if he would set me up with any of his friends. Is that a bad idea? We only dated for a month. He has a bunch of lawyer friends, I wonder if any of them are single and I wonder if they share the same political values! Based on what little you know, is it a horrible idea to send a text if he's set me up with some of his friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Lesson of the day, Naomi. Heed it well and take it forward in your next adventure in dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also I just fought off a STRONG urge to send a message to PokerPlayer to ask if he would set me up with any of his friends. Is that a bad idea? We only dated for a month. He has a bunch of lawyer friends, I wonder if any of them are single and I wonder if they share the same political values! Based on what little you know, is it a horrible idea to send a text if he's set me up with some of his friends? Ugh. Stay out of his life and get on with yours without him in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 See the thing is that I don't see 'seeing what's out there' and 'going with the flow' as being contrary to 'looking for a relationship'. In fact, I give the answer of 'seeing how things go' too even though I ultimately want a serious relationship. It's because you can't tell whether you want a relationship with the person or not in the early days - you're just feeling things out. Also, I like things to be natural - seems like the only way to fall in love. However I think that when these phrases are used by someone who doesn't want anything serious no matter how things go, then I think that it is a bit misleading. I'm actually surprised by the number of guys that tell me upfront that they're not looking for anything serious (I'm hoping it's nothing about me that's inviting these statements!!). And I'm totally cool with that. In fact it's great that I am saved from making time and energy investments. To be honest I dislike the 'what are you looking for' question as well. I mean how can you not expect the other person to feel a bit nervous if you say you want something serious. I feel nervous saying it myself! Initially it should just be about getting to know someone...maybe they end up being friends, maybe long-term partners but putting the pressure of saying you want something serious I think puts a strain on things from the start. I'm trying to figure this one out myself. I find that VERY few guys in OLD will say they want something serious. Isn't it more natural for guys not to date for relationships anyway? How does one deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also I just fought off a STRONG urge to send a message to PokerPlayer to ask if he would set me up with any of his friends. Is that a bad idea? We only dated for a month. He has a bunch of lawyer friends, I wonder if any of them are single and I wonder if they share the same political values! Based on what little you know, is it a horrible idea to send a text if he's set me up with some of his friends? Yes it is - don't do it. You may not see it yourself, but it's a way of getting in touch again and will only make you feel worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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