Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't think it was ever clear to Naomi whether Doc wanted a relationship or not. And it certainly wasn't clear until the Feb 'breakup' (I'm not entirely sure it was clear then either). As soon as Naomi knew, she walked away. But he should have been forthcoming way earlier than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Again, AWhite, I repeat, of course it is wrong to mislead a person (in any circumstances), and as happened in your case. But, not ALL confirmed bachelors/singles do this. They can't all be tarred with the same brush. So, yes (do read what I am saying) IT IS SELFISH for the single (or anyone) not to state their intentions. And it is wrong to stigmatize a group because of the selfish actions of some within that group. I can't be any clearer. I don't have any agenda here. Just trying to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 AW: I don't know Dr. Who, we have very little info about the man, he isn't here. All we have is the plethora of discussion over a thousand posts. Can we leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Again, AWhite, I repeat, of course it is wrong to mislead a person (in any circumstances), and as happened in your case. But, not ALL confirmed bachelors/singles do this. They can't all be tarred with the same brush. So, yes (do read what I am saying) IT IS SELFISH for the single (or anyone) not to state their intentions. And it is wrong to stigmatize a group because of the selfish actions of some within that group. I can't be any clearer. I don't have any agenda here. Just trying to be fair. I'm wondering where you're picking up the stigmatisation of the whole 'group'...? We're all only talking against people that mislead - by giving wrong information or by witholding information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Come on, Blue Bell (and I am getting tired now), read back through the 1284 posts and see if there isn't not just stigmatization but outright bashing. I think I am reasonably intelligent and able to pick up on that stuff. Anyhow, can we draw the matter to a close. It's a lovely evening here and time to get outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell29 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Come on, Blue Bell (and I am getting tired now), read back through the 1284 posts and see if there isn't not just stigmatization but outright bashing. I think I am reasonably intelligent and able to pick up on that stuff. Anyhow, can we draw the matter to a close. It's a lovely evening here and time to get outside. Sure, happy to agree to disagree and enjoy the evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh that too! I have a folder of unsent letters. Very cathartic. Everything you wanted to say and never got the chance. I made a list (on paper) of pros/cons and left it on my desk. A few days later, my boss calls me and says, "What is this paper? 'am I a booty call?' ' doesn't make me laugh'?" My list accidentally got submitted with some legal paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh yeah! I remember your post about that now. Silly me. That was a funny post hahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I'm sure the bachelors/singles have always been around. All I'm saying is that I think OLD facilitates this to quite an extent as well. Sorry but I really do think OLD is increasing hookup options at a rapid pace and contributing to the evergreen bachelor problem... Agree. There are too many options. No one wants to stick around and work with what they have. They'd rather start new. Also the doctor is moving up in years to late 50s. He once had the body of a soccer player, but now he is losing his hair in the back and faced with multiple ailments and I detect the blossoming of man boobs. How long can he keep this up? It must be tiring having to start fresh with a new woman every six months or so. No one to depend on, really. His mother had to fly in after his last operation to take care of him for a few days, and he felt really bad as his mom is up in years. I would have taken care of him in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Agree. There are too many options. No one wants to stick around and work with what they have. They'd rather start new. Also the doctor is moving up in years to late 50s. He once had the body of a soccer player, but now he is losing his hair in the back and faced with multiple ailments and I detect the blossoming of man boobs. How long can he keep this up? It must be tiring having to start fresh with a new woman every six months or so. No one to depend on, really. His mother had to fly in after his last operation to take care of him for a few days, and he felt really bad as his mom is up in years. I would have taken care of him in a heartbeat. Add man boobs to my list as well. Naomi! What were we thinking?!?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I said it is selfish to date a person who has clearly expressed they are dating only with the goal of finding a relationship under the circumstances where one has not been open about where they stand on the issue, and worse yet lies that they are also looking for a relationship when indeed they are not. Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, I don't express in the beginning stages what I want because: 1. I barely know the person. It will take me at least three or four months to know if I want to be in a relationship with this person. 2. If I said, "I want a relationship" at the outset, most likely the guy (who I don't even know well) will bolt because I get perceived as needy, which I am not. So I sit quiet and hopefully let it progress naturally. It doesn't work that well, I guess, because the doctor ended up not wanting me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Add man boobs to my list as well. Naomi! What were we thinking?!?!! He didn't have them when we started dating…it's due to inactivity that they are "blossoming." Maybe I should send a training bra for his birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, I don't express in the beginning stages what I want because: 1. I barely know the person. It will take me at least three or four months to know if I want to be in a relationship with this person. 2. If I said, "I want a relationship" at the outset, most likely the guy (who I don't even know well) will bolt because I get perceived as needy, which I am not. So I sit quiet and hopefully let it progress naturally. It doesn't work that well, I guess, because the doctor ended up not wanting me anyway. Well here's how I see it. I want a relationship versus I want a relationship with YOU are very VERY different things. What my life goals are (to be in a relationship with someone I admire and someone who I get along with, etc) are independent of the guy I am dating. In fact, when I am dating him, or even making the decision to go on a first date with him it is a long evaluation process where I am continually evaluating if he is "relationship material". So while I know what I want (a relationship) independent of who it is I am expressing it to, I am also letting him know I will only continue seeing him if I see him worthy of a shot of that. Does that make any sense? So I blatantly ask people what their goals are, why they are dating, what do they want etc. If they don't know what they want, I am not interested. That is why I am so angry at PokerPlayer. I ASKED HIM. I was hesitant. I questioned his ability and even lack of success in a relationship. He defended himself fiercely so I gave him a shot. We dated for over a month and talked about relationships etc much longer before that. After a series of interviews, he came back and said he really likes me and wants to see me often. But he is in *no way* ready for a relationship. What a messed up, selfish thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Does that make any sense? So I blatantly ask people what their goals are, why they are dating, what do they want etc. If they don't know what they want, I am not interested. I feel like that's so much pressure in the first date! For me and the other person. I like to start off with, "Did you find parking okay?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I feel like that's so much pressure in the first date! For me and the other person. I like to start off with, "Did you find parking okay?" Oh no, I do it WAYYYY before the first date. I am not meeting anyone who has no goal to be in a relationship? Who has time for that? My time is very valuable, and they jump through many hoops to even get to see me. Here is a list I usually cover in the span of at least a week (sometimes longer) 1. Why are you on OKC? What is your goal? 2. Where do you stand on religion and politics? 3. Should education and healthcare be for profit? 4. Do you smoke? Anyone who doesn't answer these in the way I'd want them to doesn't get to even talk to me let alone meet me for a first date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, I don't express in the beginning stages what I want because: 1. I barely know the person. It will take me at least three or four months to know if I want to be in a relationship with this person. 2. If I said, "I want a relationship" at the outset, most likely the guy (who I don't even know well) will bolt because I get perceived as needy, which I am not. So I sit quiet and hopefully let it progress naturally. It doesn't work that well, I guess, because the doctor ended up not wanting me anyway. When you meet someone, its the perfect time to ask what they are looking for. It is even easier if you meet online. its right there in their profile and its not out of line to ask questions about it. yes, the first date or two should be spent making sure you can hold a conversation and they are not an axe murderer, but those kinds of questions come up a lot easier than they do when you become smitten on date 8, 10, or 20. And the other benefit is you can quickly weed out men who have 2 children under 5 and want more, men who see themselves married in the next year or two, or men who are into swinging and casual sleeping around. We had all sorts of these conversations between the second and fifth date. the first date, we did learn naturally a little bit about eachother's backgrounds (where we've lived, stuff we do, etc.) we knew that we wanted to move forward based on looking for the same things. if he had been a guy who just wanted to have a little fun and date around, etc, then we would have parted amicably with no hard feelings after the first few dates rather than it being emotional when we found out we weren't on the same page after a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't know, I figure why have ANY dates with someone who knows they can't be in a relationship/don't want it. I know what I want, and I can say it. I'd like to date someone who is the same. Doesn't mean they should know they want a relationship with *ME*. That is not what I am asking them. That is what we discover together. However I don't want to spend a month on someone only to have them tell me sorry - I like you and I would love to spend more time with you and f*ck you, but I want to just keep dating other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_snapper Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh no, I do it WAYYYY before the first date. I am not meeting anyone who has no goal to be in a relationship? Who has time for that? My time is very valuable, and they jump through many hoops to even get to see me. Here is a list I usually cover in the span of at least a week (sometimes longer) 1. Why are you on OKC? What is your goal? 2. Where do you stand on religion and politics? 3. Should education and healthcare be for profit? 4. Do you smoke? Anyone who doesn't answer these in the way I'd want them to doesn't get to even talk to me let alone meet me for a first date. Aren't they 4 of the 20000000001 questions on OKC anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applewhite Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yeah, I answered like 1000 questions I think (!) But not everyone does. Just like I'm not wasting time on anyone who is a devout Christian (since I know we won't be compatible) I can't waste any time meeting a man who doesn't know/can't say "I want a relationship". What's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't think it was ever clear to Naomi whether Doc wanted a relationship or not. And it certainly wasn't clear until the Feb 'breakup' (I'm not entirely sure it was clear then either). As soon as Naomi knew, she walked away. But he should have been forthcoming way earlier than that. No offence but: Don't make Naomi a victim, please. It was very clear by his actions that he didn't want anything more with her then what she and he had. Actions speak louder then words and I find it very disconcerting that so many people can't tell through dating that who they are dating is obvious in what they want by their actions or lack thereof. Words are just words without actions to back them up so if some chump tells you "oh yes, I'm looking for a long term exclusive relationship" but then doesn't move past the bedroom or meeting friends/family or he never takes down his dating profile etc, then it's pretty clear that his words are not matching his actions. If sex is an issue and you (the general you) cannot compartmentalize sex from the bonding process then best to not have sex until his actions show you that he means those words regarding long term, exclusive partnership. If you don't want to wait, then best you don't have expectations of sex garnering you a relationship or that it means love. Sex is just sex and it's certainly not a show of love if that is all you have with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, I think you make a good distinction there. I suppose I may have encountered the lying commitment phobe variety while perhaps Naomi's doctor is more of the loner kind... Does it make a difference in how we handle "loner" vs. "lying commitmentphobe"? Last night was another bout of crying on the way home from gym. He thinks I hate him and I miss him so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I feel like that's so much pressure in the first date! For me and the other person. I like to start off with, "Did you find parking okay?" What is YOUR end dating goal? If you know that, then you wouldn't feel that you were pressuring anyone by asking them what their end goal was. You could ask them during their very first contact to you when they email with that great and legendary opener: "Wow you're hot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatwasThen Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Does it make a difference in how we handle "loner" vs. "lying commitmentphobe"? Last night was another bout of crying on the way home from gym. He thinks I hate him and I miss him so much.Oh, pullllllleeeeeze! In order to hate you, he would have had to have some perception of you being an evil C who ruined his life. He told you to make a decision and you made it. I suspect he respects you for going after what will make you happy, which by your text to him, was "a real boyfriend." Stop missing him by not dwelling on your memories of the sex. Other then that, you hardly knew him enough to miss him. Adding: I think you should just go on a date with one of those D-bags that lie and tell you that they want a real relationship. Make him buy you dinner and then block and delete him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Fully agree, TWT. Well said. I sometimes feel I am writing in some unknown language on here LOL. Again: If some bachelor/single leads you on, pretending to be in for a long-term relationship, as described above by TWT,then that is BAD (got that: BAD). If same makes it clear through words, actions or any other form of communication that he or she is not interested in commitment (marriage or whatever else), then the person who decides to date, see, have sex with him (or her) has been TOLD in ADVANCE what the position, and it is that person's choice to continue (wishful thinking, as in those immortal words "I can make him or her change"), or not to continue (the sensible course if the person IS looking for commitment, which the bachelor has said he cannot provide). A bit more on singlism: "One of the most tenacious myths about single people is that they are miserable and lonely, and suffer from ill-health and low self-esteem because, after all, they "don't have anyone." All that is pure nonsense - that's why I get to call these notions myths rather than realities." "Still, in its level of intensity, vitriol, and destructiveness, the discrimination faced by people who are single is not on a par with that faced by the targets of, say, racism or heterosexism." (From same source as before: De Bello) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi99 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 What is YOUR end dating goal? If you know that, then you wouldn't feel that you were pressuring anyone by asking them what their end goal was. You could ask them during their very first contact to you when they email with that great and legendary opener: "Wow you're hot." Honestly, I don't know what my end dating goal is. It is certainly not marriage or kids. I want someone to have my back… If I go to the hospital, he's the first on my list of emergency contacts. If I get into a fight with my sister, he's the first to come over and comfort me. If I want to go on vacation, he's the first of my choice of companions. That's not even a lot to ask for. My best friend said the doctor is a f-ing idiot because I'm such a low-maintenance GF, I don't get merge-y and need my own space but at the same time love him with all my heart. Perfect for a loner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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