Hermes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Er, Naomi, you say, "Do you feel the doctor should have stated long ago what he wanted? A casual relationship?" It would be unlikely if anyone would say in the first days of a relationship like this: "Listen up. This is the deal. You and I are going to enter marriage/long-term partnership in X months. I want you to know that. Starting next week-end we'll do a progressive tour of all our relatives so they get to known you/me." And so on and so forth. You'd probably have run a mile if he came out with that in the early days, lol. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 He texted me AGAIN this PM while I was at the gym, asking me to come over. That makes four times he tried to come here or get me to go there. What is happening???? Never really seen him this persistent before. No, I didn't go. What is happening? After a gazillion posts telling you what is happening, you're asking this now? He's NEVER had to be this persistent before hence why he is being persistent now. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 He just wants to prove something to himself. Frankly I would be pissed off that he was pestering me for sex when he knew what I wanted was to be more than a sex partner. OMG. Once again: Perpetuating Victimization when there is no Victim. He doesn't know that she wants more then being a sex partner. She's never voiced that to him. Telling him months ago that what they have is not sustainable and then going ahead and continuing is telling him the opposite of wanting more then what he's been offering. How can you justify to yourself your anger at someone who has never been told that you want more? Where is the logic in that? Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 TWT. I ask the same. "How can you justify to yourself your anger at someone who has never been told that you want more? Where is the logic in that?" Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 OMG. Once again: Perpetuating Victimization when there is no Victim. He doesn't know that she wants more then being a sex partner. She's never voiced that to him. Telling him months ago that what they have is not sustainable and then going ahead and continuing is telling him the opposite of wanting more then what he's been offering. How can you justify to yourself your anger at someone who has never been told that you want more? Where is the logic in that? I am not angry at him. Just a little taken back by his boldness. I have said no to him before, but he wasn't this pushy before. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I am not angry at him. Just a little taken back by his boldness. I have said no to him before, but he wasn't this pushy before. Sorry, N. I was actually asking Bluebell how could she justify her anger. Link to comment
bluebell29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 OMG. Once again: Perpetuating Victimization when there is no Victim. He doesn't know that she wants more then being a sex partner. She's never voiced that to him. Telling him months ago that what they have is not sustainable and then going ahead and continuing is telling him the opposite of wanting more then what he's been offering. How can you justify to yourself your anger at someone who has never been told that you want more? Where is the logic in that? Umm by my recollection, she told him she wanted something more when they had a conversation and his response was to start looking for a boyfriend if that was the case (agreed she didn't spell it out clearly). He would be the world's biggest idiot to not know that she is not fully on board with this relationship. She's already been conveying that with actions (unenthusiastic response to texts). All I'm saying is time to be more clear. How do you see victimisation in this btw???? Just telling her how things are from her perspective. It is not HIM, it is the SITUATION that I am painting in a less than glorious light. I'm sure he's a wonderful person to chat to at a dinner party...or be FWBs with. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 TWT. I ask the same. "How can you justify to yourself your anger at someone who has never been told that you want more? Where is the logic in that?" I'm not angry at all!!!!! Where did I say I was angry? I'm dying to see him...probably more than he wants to see me. Can't tho, not until I figure what I want. Link to comment
bluebell29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm not angry at all!!!!! Where did I say I was angry? I'm dying to see him...probably more than he wants to see me. Can't tho, not until I figure what I want. OMG sorry OP. TWT/Hermes, I said "I" would be angry. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Umm by my recollection, she told him she wanted something more when they had a conversation and his response was to start looking for a boyfriend if that was the case (agreee she didn't spell it out clearly). He would be the world's biggest idiot to not know that she is not fully on board with this relationship. She's already been conveying that with actions (unenthusiastic response to texts). All I'm saying is time to be more clear. How do you see victimisation in this btw???? Just telling her how things are from her perspective. It is not HIM, it is the SITUATION that I am painting in a less than glorious light. I'm sure he's a wonderful person to chat to at a dinner party...or be FWBs with. I didn't tell him I wanted something more. I said I was guarded and trying hard not to become too attached because I have no idea how he feels about me. That is where he volunteered he can't give me more than he is now and if I want a more serious BF, to start looking. I said I will think about it. Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Naomi, you say> "I'm dying to see him...probably more than he wants to see me. Can't tho, not until I figure what I want." Fair enough. Who knows, maybe he is experiencing an epiphany over these past days, and that emboldens him. Maybe... Link to comment
bluebell29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I didn't tell him I wanted something more. I said I was guarded and trying hard not to become too attached because I have no idea how he feels about me. That is where he volunteered he can't give me more than he is now and if I want a more serious BF, to start looking. I said I will think about it. Ok then sorry that I misunderstood. It seems to me anyhow that it's kind of just semantics. From what you post, you are in love with him and want more. From my experience, these things are usually sensed by the person we're sleeping with (especially if a certain talk has occurred before). Anyways, I wish you the best with this. I think I've said all I could/wanted to. Anything more is looking like it will be misconstrued/not helpful. Good luck and hope it all works out for the best. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Umm by my recollection, she told him she wanted something more when they had a conversation and his response was to start looking for a boyfriend if that was the case (agreed she didn't spell it out clearly). He would be the world's biggest idiot to not know that she is not fully on board with this relationship. She's already been conveying that with actions (unenthusiastic response to texts). All I'm saying is time to be more clear. How do you see victimisation in this btw???? Just telling her how things are from her perspective. It is not HIM, it is the SITUATION that I am painting in a less than glorious light. I'm sure he's a wonderful person to chat to at a dinner party...or be FWBs with. I agree with u but I am smarter than to accept role of victim. For soem reason I am supposed to recognize HIS actions and conclude he only wants casual. You all said it. watch his actions. But he gets to gloss over my actions if being hesitant with texts and turning down dates or,......how about brining him food and doing GF things? He gets to dismiss my actions that i am caring more and more, but I'm supposed to be fully cognizant of his noncommittal actions? Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ok then sorry that I misunderstood. It seems to me anyhow that it's kind of just semantics. From what you post, you are in love with him and want more. From my experience, these things are usually sensed by the person we're sleeping with (especially if a certain talk has occurred before). Anyways, I wish you the best with this. I think I've said all I could/wanted to. Anything more is looking like it will be misconstrued/not helpful. Good luck and hope it all works out for the best. No.... I agree with you!!! Seems he gets carte Blanche to do what he pleases without considering my actions of doing GF type things....amd keeps on taking and taking. How much more do I have to spell out I care about him? He's spelled out by his actions he doesn't want more, and according to most of the posters, I am supposed to conclude that without him ever talking to me about it. Just seems like double standards. Link to comment
bluebell29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I agree with u but I am smarter than to accept role of victim. For soem reason I am supposed to recognize HIS actions and conclude he only wants casual. You all said it. watch his actions. But he gets to gloss over my actions if being hesitant with texts and turning down dates or,......how about brining him food and doing GF things? He gets to dismiss my actions that i am caring more and more, but I'm supposed to be fully cognizant of his noncommittal actions? He's looking at those actions as proof that you 'like' him. He's then also looking at your actions of sleeping with him without commitment as you being ok with the arrangement. Like + ok with what he's offering = let's keep this going. Merely ignoring texts is not going to be enough. Some guys view that as a chase and it excites them and they continue. Link to comment
journeynow Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Naomi, I suppose you could message back "I'm still thinking" and then back off, give yourself space? After your Conversation, didn't you each say you'd think about your relationship? As to what's happening, it might help to read some of Al Turtle's advice on the dynamics of avoiding/clinging (as he calls it) behavior. link removed Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Naomi, he DID tell you exactly what his position was. Remember that post where you informed about that conversation with him. Anyhow, here we are at this point. Look, no one can "take" if one does not "give" (too much). Instead of doing certain things for him, and as he is in his health and strength, why not let him do them for himself, as in: "Listen up, Dr. Who, I'm not going to trudge anywhere any more with a stack of groceries. How's about you go buy them (handing him or texting him a list of the usual items). And, while I'm at it, any chance you could park your car properly so that my car can park beside it." Apply same to all that you are "giving" and he is "taking". Link to comment
East4 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Naomi, the post above is your account of how the talk came down. The bolded part leaves me with the impression you made it clear you do not want to continue being Doc FB. You yelled you would not put up with his BS, you were obviously upset by his cold indifference, you mentioned you wanted to return home to somebody. The fact you initiated the talk speaks enough by itself. In my opinion Doc is very well aware that you are not happy with the status quo, this is why he is pushing now harder, to check how strong you are in your resolve to withdraw from the FB arrangement. Link to comment
East4 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 By the way, Naomi, why aren't you in bed sleeping? DO not tell me you are losing sleep over Doc's texts. Link to comment
East4 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 No.... I agree with you!!! Seems he gets carte Blanche to do what he pleases without considering my actions of doing GF type things....amd keeps on taking and taking. How much more do I have to spell out I care about him? He's spelled out by his actions he doesn't want more, and according to most of the posters, I am supposed to conclude that without him ever talking to me about it. Just seems like double standards. Yes, it is a double standard and it is unfair to you that some posters burden you with the whole responsibility for this unsatisfactory relationship. This not only your case, but the case with the modern times dating and relationships-if something goes wrong in a relationship, it is always the woman's fault. The woman cannot do right, whatever she would do, she would be in the wrong: 1) she asks for clarity early on in a budding relationship about where she stands. The man gets cold feet/wants to play the field. In this case the woman is accused of putting pressure, not going with the flow, etc. bull; 2) she does the opposite-goes with the flow, does not ask questions (like in your case), then when she gets to feel used and unloved by the guy and finally asks about where they stand after 8 months, then she got accused of waiting too long, not being clear from the beginning. And if a woman complains about being taken for granted and her kindness being used-then she gets even more stabs by being told to suck it up and quit playing the victim. The woman is always wrong, no matter what she does it seems. And the guy is absolved from all responsibility. The saddest part is that the double standard is applied by women onto other women. Link to comment
boltnrun Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 What's up with texting you all the time? Why the EFF doesn't he pick up the phone, hold it to his ear and CALL you if he wants to see you so much? Is he afraid if what you might say? OR...is his MO to always text? If so...lazy, lazy him. Link to comment
journeynow Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Oh, no, please don't go down this road. No one gendered party is "always" anything. Link to comment
journeynow Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 About the "giving/taking" complaint. If you are giving and want nothing in return, what's wrong with the person accepting the gift you've offered? If you expect something in return BUT DON'T VOICE IT, then it is not fair to accuse the other person of being offensive. If their behavior doesn't naturally match your preference you are free to consider it a miss-match and let the relationship go, no one is "wrong." If you express what you want and the other person learns about your likes and works to accommodate them, then the relationship can evolve, and each of you in it. But communication is the key. I had a friend who was very generous, motherly even, worked very hard to take care of other people, then would complain that people took advantage of her, would walk all over her. But it seemed that she was throwing herself under their feet, and then complaining that their feet were on her. It was fair to no one. Link to comment
East4 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I have been on this forum long enough to see the trend. If the roles were reversed and Naomi was using some young guy for sex/or attention and avoid defining their arrangement, then I can guarantee you the guy would receive plenty of sympathy and no criticism. You might be surprised, but you know in this part of Europe where I live, people are not used to exclusivity talk and such. The unspoken rule is that if people get to sleep together they are exclusive and heading to relationship. And if a woman has been led on, then she has all rights to be upset. Nobody would tell her to quit playing the victim. At the old continent it is still considered a privilege for a man to get to know a woman at intimate level. I honestly feel very lucky to be dating in Europe. Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Exactly Journeynow. "no one gendered party is "always" anything". Bitterness against men (or against women for that matter) just because of their gender is most unhelpful IMO. Link to comment
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