boltnrun Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Thanks, Hermes. My bachelor friend takes it upon himself to stop seeing a woman if she says she wants commitment, promise of a future, etc. He does NOT suggest continuing to "hang out as 'friends'" in the hopes the sex will continue while disregarding the feelings of the woman. And he does not suggest she date others while continuing to sleep with him. To me, that is where the selfishness comes in with regard to the doctor. Unless he's completely obtuse, he has to know she has feelings for him and that it would be difficult for her to move on if they continue to have sex. Yet, he suggested it anyway. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Have you decided if your going to see him tonight? Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Please do not try to make him jealous. It will be obvious that you are doing so intentionally in the hopes of inspiring him. No, I won't. I decided pages ago I wouldn't do this. That's embarrassing behavior. If you're not ready to let go, then I agree you stop all "girlfriend-like" behavior, pull way back, and be a lot less available both physically and emotionally. I've already decided that too. Good luck Naomi, we're all rooting for you to realize your worth. I know what I am worth. The hard part is trying to balance the intimacy addiction with him with what I really want for myself. Just because we love ravishing each other doesn't mean my worth plummets. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Thanks for clarifying your point however; No one said that him being honest about his selfishness makes his selfishness okay either so why point out the obvious ( that selfishness is not okay) when doing that directly implies that Naomi is a victim of his selfishness? Anyway... yea. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Have you decided if your going to see him tonight? 20 percent chance I'll see him. 80 percent chance not. I'm not really feeling it…plus I feel fat today. If he surprises me and comes over here, I'm going to flip. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 To me, that is where the selfishness comes in with regard to the doctor. Unless he's completely obtuse, he has to know she has feelings for him and that it would be difficult for her to move on if they continue to have sex. Yet, he suggested it anyway. Again this is implying that Naomi has no free will and is somehow a victim of his selfishness. HE is not responsible for what she decides to do. It's up to her to say to him that is selfish behaviour and I will not enable you to treat me with selfishness. People test limits all the time, it's human nature and not too many people are so magnanimous that they would tell themselves Oh... that's not what she wants so I shouldn't ask her for what I want. One always should ask for what they want within acceptable social norms and if it's turned down, then so be it. Naomi should have asked for what she wanted a long time ago and if it was turned down, then so be it. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Oh yes, you said "Don't come over, it looks like Hurricane Sandy" But I bet he wants to hurricane sandy your bedroom. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Oh yes, you said "Don't come over, it looks like Hurricane Sandy" But I bet he wants to hurricane sandy your bedroom. I kinda want him to, too. But trying to look at bigger picture. Global warming. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Naomi should have asked for what she wanted a long time ago and if it was turned down, then so be it. Turn the tables. Do you feel the doctor should have stated long ago what he wanted? A casual relationship? Why must the onus fall on me to state what I wanted when I wasn't even sure at at that point what I wanted? He knew exactly what he wanted all along but remained silent. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think maybe you should let him come over. I think your beginning to look at him different, and I think you may even start conversing with him different from now on. These posts are all engrained in your subconcious, so he may be in for it later! Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Turn the tables. Do you feel the doctor should have stated long ago what he wanted? A casual relationship? Why must the onus fall on me to state what I wanted when I wasn't even sure at at that point what I wanted? He knew exactly what he wanted all along but remained silent. He told you a long time ago in his actions that what you were getting is what you would be getting. Naomi: You are viewing yourself as a victim. It's clear in your last few pages and you're getting validation for that thought process which is why I'm rocking the boat per se. I told you this way back in the first page or so of your thread that in order to get what you want, you have to know what you want. When you know what you want, you won't get involved in long term casual affairs. Or: You will if that is what you really want. In turn, if long term casual affairs are what you want, you won't get yourself so emotionally involved because you know you don't want to be emotionally involved... you just want the steady sex with someone you trust and you'll be quite able to compartmentalize just like Doc has been doing all along. You'd do well to stop making excuses for why you are in this and rather accept why you are in it without trying to blame him for not thinking about what you want when you don't even know what you want. Sorry to be harsh but there ya go. Doesn't mean I don't wish the best for you and the strength to do what you need to do... whatever that is. I certainly won't speculate when you still don't even know yourself. He knew exactly what he wanted all along but remained silent. You knew what he only wanted all along as well but you chose to bury it deep down so that you didn't have to deal. We all know when we are in an uneven relationship without words being spoken to us to verify it. The only difference in how long any of us will keep it up. Link to comment
Ms Darcy Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Turn the tables. Do you feel the doctor should have stated long ago what he wanted? A casual relationship? Why must the onus fall on me to state what I wanted when I wasn't even sure at at that point what I wanted? He knew exactly what he wanted all along but remained silent. The onus is on the person who wants something different from the status quo. It's like if you want a raise at work, they may suspect you'd like one but really it's up to you to state you want it and look for another job if they are not offering it. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Turn the tables. Do you feel the doctor should have stated long ago what he wanted? A casual relationship? Why must the onus fall on me to state what I wanted when I wasn't even sure at at that point what I wanted? He knew exactly what he wanted all along but remained silent. He didn't remain silent! He called you when he felt like seeing you - but no more than that. He spoke loud and clear. I think that men don't always lay their cards out on the table so early unless marriage is a very imminent goal of theirs. If they aren't on the immediate hunt for a wife or kids - they date, things are going good - why rock the boat? He gave to you exactly what he wanted in return. And since you had no qualms- life is good. with a few exceptions, if things are going good (even keel, no fights, everything is hunky dory), a guy isn't going to initiate "the talk" unless the woman is acting like she is in left field compared to him. He'll say something if she's moving way too fast, or appears very disinterested when they are together, but not if things are just right for him. You guys are two consenting adults. You never called him in between dates asking to see him and never expressed concern when he didn't seem to be bothered by it. Why does the onus fall on you? Because you were not satifisfied with the way things were going. All was good with him. he wasn't going to bring up anything - why? he didn't need to. Link to comment
browneyedgirl36 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Lots of good points here, especially in the bolded part. I've read this whole thread, and I feel like it's getting far more complicated than it could every possibly need to be. I guess maybe I'm a bit too "black and white" when it comes to this stuff now, having experienced several years ago very much what Naomi is experiencing now, but...I think this is all pretty clear-cut: Either you want something committed, monogamous and longterm (though not necessarily marriage and/or babies) or you don't, and i this guy is not offering what you want, end things and find someone who will. I get the whole chemistry and sexual attraction thing, but....that can be had with other people. I dunno... In the past, whenever I've waffled about whether or not to do something, I tended to know what the right choice was for me (the "right" choice being the one that was best for my well-being), but there was something preventing me from making it (hence why I kept giving my ex chances even though I KNEW we would never have the relationship I wanted -- committed and monogamous). Usually, that "something" was fear, and was often fear of letting go or fear of what would happen afterward (i.e. being "alone," not being able to find someone else I felt really strongly about, etc.) I just think this is a lot simpler than what 77 pages worth of posts would suggest. But that's just me. Link to comment
wilyone 11 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 No, I won't. I decided pages ago I wouldn't do this. That's embarrassing behavior. I've already decided that too. I know what I am worth. The hard part is trying to balance the intimacy addiction with him with what I really want for myself. Just because we love ravishing each other doesn't mean my worth plummets. "Worth" wasn't the best word choice. More like we are rooting for you to recognize what you deserve and settle for nothing less. If you think you can love this guy and continue to sleep with him until someone truly available comes along to sweep you off your feet, I think you're engaging in wishful thinking. The universe doesn't work like that. It won't bring you a new rich relationship until you leave this one behind. You aren't open to letting someone else in. You think you are because you go on dates here and there but it's not the same as truly releasing an unfulfilling relationship. At least that's what I've been advised by every spiritual counselor. Curious if anyone here has ever been in love with someone who cannot meet their needs, yet they continue trying to nurture the relationship and the love of their life suddenly appears on the scene and they find true happiness with the new person? Because if that's truly possible then I might be tempted to do the fwb thing with some guys I love to bang too lol. Link to comment
browneyedgirl36 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yep. All of this. 100%. When I finally let my very non-committal ex go -- completely -- I met the best guy I've ever met IN MY LIFE. Until then, I said I wanted to date, and I went on a few dates and had a few "setups" where friends introduced me to people, but...nothing ever came of them. None of those guys were right for me, probably, but even if the "right" one had come along, I never would have seen him -- not really seen him, anyway. I wasn't ready. We make positive changes when we're really ready, and when we make those changes, we're making room for good stuff to happen. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 He texted me AGAIN this PM while I was at the gym, asking me to come over. That makes four times he tried to come here or get me to go there. What is happening???? Never really seen him this persistent before. No, I didn't go. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi love Because you are not doing what he wants you to do. He does not like it. Stand firm! (if that's what you want). Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm grateful for all of your support; truly am. And even if I don't seem to heed the advice right away, trust me..it is sitting with me. And thank you all for being open-minded and kind to me. No one here has made me feel like a hussy or judged me negatively. There are so many women here who have been afflicted with similar situations, and everyone has a different take on it. It's amazing how delicate and diplomatic some posters are when they are practicing "tough love" and showing me the other side of the coin, so to speak, and I love the objectiveness. This group is amazing…all of the experience and knowledge you've shared is better than therapy. And I scratch my head here wondering why you all find this crazy spaceship ride that is my love life so interesting that your words have now compile to 700-plus posts. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi love Because you are not doing what he wants you to do. He does not like it. Stand firm! (if that's what you want). As a guy, can you tell me approximately how long this persistence is going to last? When will he tire? Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well he is used to getting what he wants, I don't think you have ever said no. So he will continue until he is forced to actually ask you "what's wrong?" without wanting to ask because he does not want to talk about it. He will be fuming at home. But he wanted casual with no rules, but there are rules....his. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 "Worth" wasn't the best word choice. More like we are rooting for you to recognize what you deserve and settle for nothing less. Thank you!!! If you think you can love this guy and continue to sleep with him until someone truly available comes along to sweep you off your feet, I think you're engaging in wishful thinking. The universe doesn't work like that. It won't bring you a new rich relationship until you leave this one behind. You aren't open to letting someone else in. You think you are because you go on dates here and there but it's not the same as truly releasing an unfulfilling relationship. At least that's what I've been advised by every spiritual counselor. Most likely I will not be able to compartmentalize like he does, and fall in love with someone else while being intimate with him. I've never tried it before. But maybe after that last talk, I'll be in a different frame of mind and able to. Probably not. Link to comment
Ms Darcy Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 As a guy, can you tell me approximately how long this persistence is going to last? When will he tire? Is there some part of you that is sort of enjoying the increased attention? Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Is there some part of you that is sort of enjoying the increased attention? OF COURSE! I'm a girl! Link to comment
bluebell29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 As a guy, can you tell me approximately how long this persistence is going to last? When will he tire? He's sounding like a sex pest now! I totally hear you that it feels good to feel wanted but please don't go down that route, trust me, been there done that. He just wants to prove something to himself. Frankly I would be pissed off that he was pestering me for sex when he knew what I wanted was to be more than a sex partner. If you want it to stop- I know a part of you is dithering because it's hard to stop- you need to communicate more. maybe you could just say that you're still thinking about your talk with him the other day and are a bit confused and need time to think. Stalling will give you time to process. Don't hope for him to ask what's wrong, it doesn't suit him - here's your lesson in assertiveness! Link to comment
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