8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[Hermes]

There you are, Naomi.

 

We're getting there! Yes!

 

Sounds simple, doesn't it, and should be doable.

[Naomi99]

Ah, I misinterpreted as a response to " decide within yourself WHAT exactly you are ultimately looking for" , thinking "what" in a bigger sense. Sorry!

 

No problem. Bigger sense, all the typical things. Kindness, confidence, someone who has my back…you know the drill.

[boltnrun]

So would it be accurate to say the doctor does not deliver on most of your basic relationship needs?

 

And if not, why do you "love" him?

[Naomi99]

Nope. It never progressed to the second stage. I think purposefully on his part.

 

Maybe I am not in love with him. I probably have a major schoolgirl crush. Not sure.

 

So depressing to not be wanted by someone.

[boltnrun]

I think that's it in a nutshell.

 

He made you feel "wanted" and you responded with "love".

 

It makes me think if he'd given you everything you say you want in a relationship in the beginning you would have lost interest.

 

You did mention other men you'd dated whom you found boring or whom you lost interest in because they were just not much of a challenge (at least that's how it sounded from my perspective).

 

So, a man who "wants" you but doesn't love you provides the ultimate challenge, and therefore, since you can't shake him out of your thoughts, you conclude you must "love" him.

 

I know, I was you years ago. I HAD to get my ex (another ex, not the one I've written extensively about here) to love me! I just HAD to! Because if I did, it meant I did have that something special he was looking for. I would be the one who won the ultimate prize! He was attractive and fun and very, very popular with all the girls. So to me, that meant if he chose me I must be right at the top and worth something.

 

So, I put up with a lot from this guy...lies, cheating, hiding things from me...because I believed if I just hung in there long enough he would see how much I loved him, and that would make him stop all the bad behavior and commit to just me. I would "win" the prize.

 

Except, I was so blinded by my need for him to love me that I couldn't see that the prize was a booby prize...cheaply made, fell apart easily and not worth a darn. And why does some man get to decide if I'm worth something? Shouldn't that be up to me?

 

Now, when he occasionally does reach out to me I ignore him or make small talk, then go back to my regularly scheduled life because I realize he doesn't deserve me.

 

Neither one of these exes would ever give me what I wanted in a relationship. Neither loved me, and if a man clearly doesn't love me why would I want to give my love to him?

[Naomi99]

It makes me think if he'd given you everything you say you want in a relationship in the beginning you would have lost interest.

 

You're probably right, but there is also chemistry that was missing with the other men. WIth this one, there is something about his natural smell that drives me wildly insane. I catch a whiff of him and I'm ready to do whatever he wants. The way he kisses…there are times when I've almost fainted. He is extremely seductive and alluring, And his eyes. He has similar eyes to Clooney….very gentle and soft, very deceiving because we all know what a self-centered bastard he is. There is a ton of physical chemistry. I think more than any man I've ever been with. Ever.

 

The other men didn't smell right to me.

 

 

Except, I was so blinded by my need for him to love me that I couldn't see that the prize was a booby prize...cheaply made, fell apart easily and not worth a darn.

 

Aside from all that chemistry stuff, I feel the same as you, but I don't think I am blinded. I know the doctor is dull and finicky and isn't really funny and is selfish. He would indeed be a dud prize. I'm really beginning to question why I'm so gaga over him…it has to be exactly what you said in your post above: He's a challenge.

 

A good friend of mine found out our local symphony would be playing my favorite composer. He bought tickets for us to see tonight. I cried during the performance, not just because it was emotionally moving, but because here this guy is just a good friend, he knows how much I love this composer, and took the time not only to buy the tickets, but to surprise me and accompany me to the show…and he bought dinner too. That's more than the doctor has done all year, really.

[Helpexpressme]

You know how they say "The doctor is in" well I have a new saying......

 

The doctor is out! Express will escort him out, if he comes sniffing around. Can't wait!

[Ms Darcy]

I thought you might find this article interesting: "Why Women Love & Lust After Unavailable Men: Traumatic Love" - link removed

 

"Most women don’t seek out or sustain interest in unavailable men, but more women than any of us would like to admit do. I actually saw this behavior so frequently in my private practice that I decided to write a book about it, which is called Overcome Relationship Repetition Syndrome. In a moment, I’ll tell you what’s going on in the minds of these women who seek out—and often stay with—men who will never truly emotionally commit. In my book, I use the term "emotional chasing" because that's exactly what it is: a chase.

 

First, I’ll give you a sense of what it looks like to fall for an emotionally unavailable man. Women who are attracted to this type of man find themselves in relationships with men who ultimately won’t commit or settle down, are already married or in another relationship, or are unfaithful in a supposedly monogamous relationship. Women who fall for unavailable men usually feel that they are more committed to the relationship than the men are. These women usually feel that the men have all the power and control in the relationship. Women in relationships with unavailable men feel that they have to work hard to keep their partners interested, and often try to shape themselves into being whatever they think their partners are looking for.

 

Simply put, relationships with unavailable men are frustrating and unsatisfying, yet too many women try-try-try to stick it out and make things work. The important question is…why?

 

Women who fall for unavailable men have some profound insecurities and self-esteem issues, and they invest so much in pursuing unavailable men with the following unconscious motive: If the unavailable man finally comes around and commits, they’ll—at long last—have proof that they are worthy. Sadly, without such proof, their self-worth is left hanging in the wind. In addition, these women feel that they've invested so much and waited so long for the unavailable man to come around that the thought of leaving without any payoff is almost unthinkable.

 

Even though their behavior leads to a host of problems and indicates self-esteem issues, these women aren't fools. They actually have a strength that they often don’t stop to think about: perseverance. If a woman sets her mind on getting the attention and affection of an unavailable man, she may go to great lengths to keep giving him chances. At the same time, she’ll often fall into the rut of making excuses for his negligent behavior. Though this approach isn’t ideal, her behavior reflcts the fact that she is patient, hard working, and committed to something she cares about. Those are good qualities!

 

For women who find themselves in a relationship with an unavailable man, the women don't need to change everything about themslves—they just need to switch their focus. Specifically, they need to switch from focusing their energy into obtaining his affection to focusing on their own emotional needs. If you find yourself stuck in this relationship pattern, working with a therapist or reading a self-help book like Overcome Relationship Repitition Syndrome can give you strategies to move away from the unavailable man and start moving toward a man who's ready for a real, big-boy relationship. If you're willing to do the work to explore your behavior, motivations, and needs, you could find yourself in the near future in a relationship with a man who's actually worth it. Imagine that!"

[Hermes]

Isn-t nature an extraordinary old witch:

 

".........but there is also chemistry that was missing with the other men. WIth this one, there is something about his natural smell that drives me wildly insane. I catch a whiff of him and I'm ready to do whatever he wants. The way he kisses…there are times when I've almost fainted. He is extremely seductive and alluring, And his eyes. He has similar eyes to Clooney….very gentle and soft, very deceiving because we all know what a self-centered bastard he is. There is a ton of physical chemistry. I think more than any man I've ever been with. Ever.

 

The other men didn't smell right to me."

[Hermes]

If Dr. Who or indeed any man, provided this (and I quote you), would you take him on:

 

"What I would like is a relationship where things unfold naturally and there's a courteous reciprocation.

 

You text me. I accept.

You take me out. I cook you an amazing dinner.

You ask me to spend the night. I make breakfast.

You setup my DVR. I re-arrange your spice drawer.

You invite me to happy hour with your friends. I invite you to Pictionary with my friends.

We're both stressed out. We plan a trip.

 

That's all!! It's simple and pleasant. No wedding. No babies. I don't even want to meet your family. Mine is hard enough to deal with."

[browneyedgirl36]

This was me, to the letter, with my ex -- especially the bolded part. And, I would add to that, though it seems a bit contradictory, his refusal to commit to me was also "proof" of how "un-lovable" and unworthy I thought I was. I twisted myself into pretzels to be some perfect thing that would not only be acceptable to him, but that would be worthy of him sticking around. Madness! When I shifted my focus to my own emotional needs -- as this article states later -- EVERYTHING changed. With the person I'm seeing now, there is no need to try so hard. I can just BE, and it's enough. I don't feel insecure or that he could pull the rug out from me at any moment (I suppose he COULD, but I don't worry about it). It's amazing how dramatically things change when you shift your focus.

[ThatwasThen]

He would indeed be a dud prize. I'm really beginning to question why I'm so gaga over him

 

"Limerence." You are in Limerence, me thinks.

 

lim·er·ence

 

 

/ˈlimərəns/

 

 

noun

Psychology

 

noun: limerence; plural noun: limerences

 

 

 

 

the state of being infatuated or obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings but not primarily for a sexual relationship.

 

 

link removed

 

Besides: That initial attraction and chemistry is perpetual when life in general in not getting in the way of your lust and new relationship energy.

 

You likely never felt it with anyone else you've dated since being with Doc because you've bonded already to him and therefore have been closed off to the pheromones of those you've been meeting.

[Naomi99]

thank you for the article, Ms Darcy

 

Everything makes sense and probably applies to me and Bolt to some extent. But after posting here, reading your insightful viewpointsts and reflecting for the last two weeks, I think my issue has more to do with sexual chemistry and the attachment that comes with it more than anything else. And the fact that he is older and well-read makes him a worthy opponent for me than the readily available guys who don't stimulate my brain (or genitals) properly.

[Naomi99]

How do I get out if limerance??????

[ThatwasThen]

How do I get out if limerance??????

 

Like any addiction: Cold turkey withdrawl from your drug of choice along with one day at a time thinking and with the resignation that you're done being controlled by a chemical.

[Helpexpressme]

Lol I don't think your in Limerance. After getting to know you, your quite a complex lass yourself, who's just fallen for the wrong guy.

 

Never fear, the team is here.

[itsallgrand]

Hey, did you cut him off yet?

[Naomi99]

Haven't heard from him since Thursday. I will not contact him.

 

Men love sex and food and he gets both. I'm 15 years younger, way more vibrant, quick witted, and he's turning that down??

 

He's an idiot.

 

He can be happy by himself. Dirty old man.

[Helpexpressme]

Start slow. Just start saying "I'm busy tonight" when he "texts". He shouldn't just assume you'd drop everything when he "wants some". Focus on going on those 2 dates, and then go on them.

 

Start slow fazing yourself out of the picture.....

[Ms Darcy]

Haven't heard from him since Thursday. I will not contact him.

 

Men love sex and food and he gets both. I'm 15 years younger, way more vibrant, quick witted, and he's turning that down??

 

He's an idiot.

 

He can be happy by himself. Dirty old man.

 

I think he's probably looking for his next companion. Sorry to say, but I don't think he's overthinking this.

[Hermes]

Hey, Naomi, women love sex and food too!

[itsallgrand]

Haven't heard from him since Thursday. I will not contact him.

 

Men love sex and food and he gets both. I'm 15 years younger, way more vibrant, quick witted, and he's turning that down??

 

He's an idiot.

 

He can be happy by himself. Dirty old man.

 

You mentioned earlier how you felt like going for a situation with someone who was not fully available felt safer to you.

 

I wonder if you didn't feel like this would be a 'safer' situation as well because you are younger than he? Like, you sort of figure he should be grateful he gets to be with a younger more vibrant chick? And that that gave you the upper hand in some way?

 

I thought most people love food and sex!! But the world is a buffet in that regard; we can get it anywhere and everywhere.

 

I think you should stick with focusing on your own needs and self, and not worry about him nor make his choices about you. They are not a reflection of you. They are his and his alone.

[abitbroken]

What I would like is a relationship where things unfold naturally and there's a courteous reciprocation.

 

You text me. I accept.

You take me out. I cook you an amazing dinner.

You ask me to spend the night. I make breakfast.

You setup my DVR. I re-arrange your spice drawer.

You invite me to happy hour with your friends. I invite you to Pictionary with my friends.

We're both stressed out. We plan a trip.

 

That's all!! It's simple and pleasant. No wedding. No babies. I don't even want to meet your family. Mine is hard enough to deal with.

 

 

What about something meatier "we share the basics on faith or worldview" "He is polite to 'neutral women' like wait staff - it gives me a good indicator on how he will treat me when we get settled into the relationship," "he doesn't want kids", etc. You can become a personal organizer to have the joy of the spice drawer.

 

Well - I will say that you are not going to get a man that is very committed if you don't want to meet his family or its going to have an expiration date unless you only target lonely men whose family lives overseas. maybe you feel hurt still by the man who you broke up with who had kids so do not want anyone with family at all - and want to take it out - but unless the man is an orphan - being estranged from all family completely (there are people who see their immediate family, but didn't grow up with the cousins so see them only at funerals), can be a red flag in regards to intimacy, the ability to solve problems, deal with conflict, etc. You will end up with a complete loner who behaves like the doctor behaves, etc. Or who knows - maybe their family is fine and THEY are the ones who they kicked out due to tough love. I get that you don't want to be amidst the family - a big, close knit family, but what if your next bachelor guy has a good relationship with his brother - and doesn't have a big family, and wants you to meet him because he is proud to be your boyfriend?. I get that you don't want kids - but not even open to meeting a close sibling? Hey - what if his family is warm, pretty well -adjusted and what you were missing?

 

So - if you are content with a series of relationships and ending them when the guy wants something deeper or you are trying to get blood out of the stone - fine. But be clear that you just want to date. Up front. And when the expiration date comes, be willing to leave.

[boltnrun]

You're probably right, but there is also chemistry that was missing with the other men. WIth this one, there is something about his natural smell that drives me wildly insane. I catch a whiff of him and I'm ready to do whatever he wants. The way he kisses…there are times when I've almost fainted. He is extremely seductive and alluring, And his eyes. He has similar eyes to Clooney….very gentle and soft, very deceiving because we all know what a self-centered bastard he is. There is a ton of physical chemistry. I think more than any man I've ever been with. Ever.

 

 

I believe this is a direct result of your infatuation due to the challenge and his lack of commitment, not the cause of it.

 

And, as I mentioned, my situation was different because I DID end it. I didn't wait long after he told me he didn't love me. Our second go-round, yes, I made the error of thinking he wanted to start seeing me again because he missed ME, but in fact he just missed the convenient sex and companionship. So, again, I ended it. I took about 24 hours to "think", then I called him and said no go. I did not see the point of continuing with someone who stated in no uncertain terms that he "liked" me just fine but did not and would not ever love me. When he crept back the third time many years later I saw him out of curiosity, but as I said earlier I found him annoying and insufferable, so that round was over after about 6 hours lol.

 

I don't think the doctor is actively in search of a new Naomi (however, I know him not at all so I could be 100% wrong, I'm basing on the information provided in this thread), but I also think he won't be opposed to the idea. Maybe in his mind you started "drama" (and I disagree) so he wouldn't mind a new, drama-free source of POAS if he stumbles accross one.

[ThatwasThen]

Lol I don't think your in Limerance. After getting to know you, your quite a complex lass yourself, who's just fallen for the wrong guy.

 

Never fear, the team is here.

You didn't read the link on Limerence did you...