Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 TWT. That's the point, he is not as far as I can see a player, and has told her straight where he stands as regards commitment. I got the impression the OP came here to ask whether she should stay or leave, which to me anyhow, shows she is in a place of great doubt. I agree that if she wants him as he is, and she likes that (she did say in an earlier post she felt like slapping him because of his attitude), then go for it and live that life. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 I am glad you spoke up and I'm still rolling about the "vagina on a stick" comment. But that's really just the first step. Just Saying No would be the next and permanent step, because nothing can be gained from continuing except a lot of frustration and dissatisfaction. I didn't really use the word "vagina." I used the "P" word. By the time he asks me out again, I'll be strong enough to say no. I won't be anyone's plaything. But right now, I kinda just want to cry. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 This poster is not some codependent twit who carries on hoping and not listening and only hearing what she wants to hear and complaining but still carries on in the status quo Nobody said she was. But she IS still carrying on in the status quo. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Awww, Naomi. It is difficult. I think we can all see that you had affection for this man. Those kind of people are crazy-making.... Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 TWT. That's the point, he is not as far as I can see a player, and has told her straight where he stands as regards commitment. I got the impression the OP came here to ask whether she should stay or leave, which to me anyhow, shows she is in a place of great doubt. I agree that if she wants him as he is, and she likes that (she did say in an earlier post she felt like slapping him because of his attitude), then go for it and live that life.I think we past the original question quite quickly. She didn't have the conversation with him when she first posted. Link to comment
boltnrun Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Well, the fact that she was "afraid" (her own word) to ask him the status of their relationship, the fact that she wouldn't ask him to allow her room to park her car, the fact that she wouldn't ask him for help carrying groceries up a hill, the fact that she would leave in the middle of the night instead of taking him up on his offer to sleep in the guest room...these all speak of someone who is in a compliant role in the relationship. I'm just basing my opinion on the information she gave. The history is of her being accommodating to him and not vice versa (again, according to her). And of being unwilling to speak up out of fear. Fear of losing the relationship. She may now be finding and owning her voice, and may be realizing that while she isn't at a place emotionally to want a full on committed relationship, she does want more than a relationship where she's fearful of speaking up about simple, basic needs. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Bolt. Yes, that says it all. "Well, the fact that she was "afraid" (her own word) to ask him the status of their relationship, the fact that she wouldn't ask him to allow her room to park her car, the fact that she wouldn't ask him for help carrying groceries up a hill, the fact that she would leave in the middle of the night instead of taking him up on his offer to sleep in the guest room...these all speak of someone who is in a compliant role in the relationship." Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Nobody said she was. But she IS still carrying on in the status quo. I know nobody did but when someone says "he has you right where he wants you" it implies that she doesn't have free will and will do those things that codependents do. Link to comment
Helpexpressme Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yes, but when it comes to this man she is giving up her free will and is doing as she is told. And that's not a good thing that she should be doing. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Oh yes he has, though probably not consciously, but just by being the way he is, got her where he wants her. Repeat: "Well, the fact that she was "afraid" (her own word) to ask him the status of their relationship, the fact that she wouldn't ask him to allow her room to park her car, the fact that she wouldn't ask him for help carrying groceries up a hill, the fact that she would leave in the middle of the night instead of taking him up on his offer to sleep in the guest room...these all speak of someone who is in a compliant role in the relationship." Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yes, but when it comes to this man she is giving up her free will and is doing as she is told. And that's not a good thing that she should be doing. He hasn't told me to do one thing except "Let's meet at my place at 8:30" and "can you scratch that one area of my back?" I've never done anything I didn't want to do. Even now, after that dreaded conversation, I have options, a ton of options, where I am in the driver's seat. The only thing holding me back is my own emotions, and once I am able to separate my emotions from logic, anything is possible, even breaking away from him. Link to comment
boltnrun Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I didn't get that he tells you what to do. Rather, you have taken on the role of accommodator, where you do what causes HIM the least amount of effort. He says he can't sleep next to you? Fine, you leave at a God-awful hour and drive home. He parks in the middle of the driveway? Fine, you park down the street and slog up a hill carrying the groceries YOU bought him so you can have a nice dinner. So, in essence, YOU have chosen the compliant role so you can keep the relationship without ever knowing if you'd simply ASKED for some consideration, he might have complied. However, water under the bridge. You told him you would think about the situation (you didn't "end it"). Now, you can go into another limbo waiting game because you don't want to rush into a decision (sound familiar??). In the meantime you can give yourself permission to continue to see him and to be accommodating because you're "deciding". And another nine months can go by while you "decide" or "think". If you rely on your emotions, I'd suggest you remind yourself that for him, emotions are not at all involved. Remember...you say you "love" him, but he said he "likes" you. Major difference. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 I agree with you 100 percent. If I agree to see him from this point onward, then he'd be calling all the shots. This is why I said from the start that if his answer is "no, I'm not interested in long-term," then it's basically over or I'll look like a love fool for sticking around. That's when people chimed in just because you have the talk doesn't mean you have to end it. It just gives you information so you can make more effective choices. Anyway I haven't done one thing as of that conversation except not answer his text, and you guys are already saying he's the puppet master. How? I've been mirroring him and keeping my outward interest one level below his..never initiating, never calling, rarely texting. In his eyes, I'll more emotionally unavailable than he is, but inside I know I'm more invested. I just don't show it because I'm guarded. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Wow…what a powerful post. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Bolt has really laid it out as it is. Dead right. For him emotions do not come into the matter. I can however understand, Naomi, that being human, we have emotions, you have, and you have the insight to see and say "you are more invested". I did get that from all your posts. Disentangling yourself, that's the trick. And you can do it. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Now, you can go into another limbo waiting game because you don't want to rush into a decision (sound familiar??). In the meantime you can give yourself permission to continue to see him and to be accommodating because you're "deciding". And another nine months can go by while you "decide" or "think". No, that won't happen. I think it would be more interesting for me to say No Thank you, and move on. It's always the ones that slip away silently with no drama that leave men scratching their heads, what just happenened? Where did she go? Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yes, but when it comes to this man she is giving up her free will and is doing as she is told. And that's not a good thing that she should be doing. She's not doing any such thing. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I think (and I am going by the man I described above as a clone of yours) that perhaps they deep down, very deep down, may yearn for something more, but are psychically and emotionally unable to. Something made them loners, happy loners even, but that is a tale for another day. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 I think (and I am going by the man I described above as a clone of yours) that perhaps they deep down, very deep down, may yearn for something more, but are psychically and emotionally unable to. Something made them loners, happy loners even, but that is a tale for another day. So when men like this engage in hiding-the-salami and show affection and kisses and express terms of endearment, is this just a big show? Because I can't do that unless I have genuine feelings for the person. Link to comment
ThatwasThen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 He's very fond of you but that doesn't mean he wants to change the dynamic of what you have shared with him. If/When you stop seeing him, I'm more then sure he will miss you. Again, that doesn't mean he'll change anything up. It's a different world and I think more and more men are not finding a need to be living with the woman/men they are sleeping with. I also don't think that he has a "fear of commitment" but rather a preference to be unattached (even if he's not having sex with anyone else). Where did you meet this Doc of yours, Naomi? Link to comment
boltnrun Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 So when men like this engage in hiding-the-salami and show affection and kisses and express terms of endearment, is this just a big show? Because I can't do that unless I have genuine feelings for the person. It's not a show. He said he likes you. He's treating you the way he treats people he likes. My ex (who I described a few pages ago) called me his girlfriend. He introduced me to his entire family (siblings and parents) and came to my relatives' homes for holidays. He sat in public with his arm around me and walked with me holding hands and with his arm around me. He smiled often and insisted in sitting right next to me. He asked me to keep some of my things at his house and made room in his closet and dresser for me. He asked me to spend the night often. He took me with him every time he traveled. He called me often. He did not love me. He told me he did not love me. He said the exact same thing your guy did...that he "liked" me. We cannot judge others' actions by what WE would do or not do in a situation. He's not you. As far as wanting to be mysterious and how he'd perceive you...that would be a manipulative tactic to use if you were trying to get him to want you back and to want a relationship with you. It's no longer prudent for you to make decisions based on how you think HE'LL react, but on what is best for you. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I regret to say, Naomi, that yes, it is, not so much a "show" shall we say. It is just the way they operate and "feel" if feel is the correct word. TWT is right, and as I said before he prefers his "loner" life, as in unattached. The man I mentioned earleir, that I knew, was like that too. Down to a T. I remember him once saying: "You know, asking the like of me for a "commitment" is like asking a man with a club foot to race a sprint". Exactly. He is shackled by himself, it is how he IS. And that is what is familiar to him, the way he is. A marriage would be a cold and lonely affair with someone like that. Link to comment
Hermes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Exactly, Bolt. This man is not Naomi. Simply there are some people like that, though not necessarily a majority by any means. He probably does not give much away, as to his parents (if alive), his childhood, his parenting, his early education. Link to comment
reinventmyself Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 So when men like this engage in hiding-the-salami and show affection and kisses and express terms of endearment, is this just a big show? Because I can't do that unless I have genuine feelings for the person. Because for the most part men make love with their bodies, where as women make love with their minds. (just a generalization) Men are better equipped to have sex without any emotional entanglement. Doesn't make them wrong, just makes them different. .(from women) I predict a maneuver from him. Some veil display of emotion to get her to return. Unfortunately it will be returning to the same dynamic. It won't feel that way in the beginning and be careful to read what he says correctly. But I don't think he is going to just go away quietly. Link to comment
Naomi99 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 As far as wanting to be mysterious and how he'd perceive you...that would be a manipulative tactic to use if you were trying to get him to want you back and to want a relationship with you. It's no longer prudent for you to make decisions based on how you think HE'LL react, but on what is best for you. responding to a date via text "No, thank you" IS what's best for me. I don't want to have another conversation. I don't really think I can handle seeing him again. I don't think I"m strong enough to resist his advances. I'm not trying to manipulate him at all. I'm just saying the girls that don't throw ultimatums or tantrums/ask a million questions who chose to elegantly slip away are always the ones that leave the guy questioning his decision. I am that woman; not some Real Housewife emotionally unstable chick. Plus he already knows what he needs to know. If I say No, thank you, then he knows that means I decided to find someone who is serious about me. Link to comment
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