Blue Spiral's Adventures in Solitude

[Mr_LFA]

'

Oh women like gifts, but what I learned over the years is that it's not all about spending a lot on your girlfriend. I'm not rich either, having a good heart and being at least independent on things like work, car and having your own place is sufficient most of the time.

I agree. Although, I've probably spent many more times on cars, over the years, than I have on women. lol

[Blue Spiral]

I'm speechless, Blue...utterly speechless!

 

 

 

Shh. Don't ruin my rep!

 

Thanking someone doesn't mean that what was given deserved the thanks (i.e. a person with low self esteem might thank profusely for utter scraps)

 

Whenever I get any sort of praise, or claim to accomplish anything, you seem to feel the need to belittle it. Why is that?

[Batya33]

Shh. Don't ruin my rep!

 

 

 

Whenever I get any sort of praise, or claim to accomplish anything, you seem to feel the need to belittle it. Why is that?

 

You seem to feel the need to respond with sarcasm/twisting my words. I don't think I have belittled anything. I do think you regularly post belittling comments about women.

 

Again, I think it's great that you give emotional support and was confused because you have written many times that you do not want friendship (that is not a criticism). I also opined that a person with low self esteem -who doesn't feel worthy of generosity -may thank someone profusely -overdo it- despite not having been given anything other than basic human treatmen. I did not mean to say you didn't- just questioning your assumption of "thanks" meaning you helped by having intercourse with the person (which is what you first implied since your focus was on the sex). Certainly if by helping you mean emotional support -that's of course a wonderful contribution -hope repeating myself clarified.

[Blue Spiral]

You seem to feel the need to respond with sarcasm/twisting my words. I don't think I have belittled anything. I do think you regularly post belittling comments about women.

 

So, a combination of denial and avoidance. OK then.

[Clarisse]

Of the six couples that live in my cul-de-sac, all in our 40s, five of the women out-earn their partners, most quite significantly (upwards of 50%).

 

I have spent more than $1,000 on my SO in 2016 alone, I would guess. He is unemployed having been laid off last year. Doesn't bother me in the least, as we are a team and support each other in different ways.

 

What do you make of these types of relationships and women? How do we fall into your model?

[Batya33]

So, a combination of denial and avoidance. OK then.

 

Good selective quoting. And, not in the least. Good to see that you intended to help these women and to do so through offers of friendship (you never did respond - I am certain that was not avoidance on your part - but "emotional support" sounds like a desire to be friends with those women - a change from your previous comments about avoiding friendship).

[Fudgie]

I don't think emotional support = friendship. I give emotional support all the time to patients. That doesn't mean that I am friends with them and I know they certainly don't think of me as a friend (and likely won't even remember me at all) but I can still give emotional support when they are going through a hard time (pain, upset, whatever). It's possible that Blue Spiral was giving them emotional support during the moment but then afterward, didn't want a friendship.

[Batya33]

I don't think emotional support = friendship. I give emotional support all the time to patients. That doesn't mean that I am friends with them and I know they certainly don't think of me as a friend (and likely won't even remember me at all) but I can still give emotional support when they are going through a hard time (pain, upset, whatever). It's possible that Blue Spiral was giving them emotional support during the moment but then afterward, didn't want a friendship.

 

Oh I agree - but in his case it's not his patient and the way he posted suggested an offer of friendship type support at the time -and of course he refers to them as FWB and said that he would make our jaws drop etc. I posted a few times but no response yet-perhaps he will respond to some other post. Also I was distinguishing more on the basis that he did not believe he helped through intercourse but his offer of emotional support -that to me was the real distinction. As I wrote I don't think most people with low self esteem are helped long term by having casual sex. With exceptions of course! Perhaps these women were exceptions (writing that because of the OP's comment that I claimed to know these individuals -of course not). But- genuine and intentional emotional support- of course that can be helpful and can be a true gift.

[IAmFCA]

Money need not be a symbol, and a woman's desire to receive gifts does not necessarily flow from her desire for him to provide.

 

Friendship involves looking out for the other one's interests, more of an attachment than supporting someone through a moment. Or, perhaps one might say, we were friends just for that moment?

 

Not sure how Blue's thread evolved to his defense of his engagements, but I suggest that so long as he is honest about his terms of engagement, there are no victims here. Certainly he may be what someone needs at a time, and in a sense she also is what he needs.

 

We presume progression, whereas blue's needs do not progress. If her needs progress, she is free to pursue them, since he is clear about being non committal. It is presumptuous to suggest we know what is in the best interests of his womdn; we don't. They are adults and we owe them the presumption that they are able to choose for themselves.

 

Regarding friendship, anyone who makes assumptions about me as an individual based on my gender is not my friend, for that persons stereotyping or gender bias is preventing him or her from seeing me as I am - including ways that may be consistent with the bias as well as says that aren't. Such a person might be helpful and friendly, while not being my friend.

[itsallgrand]

What is the estimate when you include cam models?

[IAmFCA]

Oh I agree - but in his case it's not his patient and the way he posted suggested an offer of friendship type support at the time -and of course he refers to them as FWB and said that he would make our jaws drop etc. I posted a few times but no response yet-perhaps he will respond to some other post. Also I was distinguishing more on the basis that he did not believe he helped through intercourse but his offer of emotional support -that to me was the real distinction. As I wrote I don't think most people with low self esteem are helped long term by having casual sex. With exceptions of course! Perhaps these women were exceptions (writing that because of the OP's comment that I claimed to know these individuals -of course not). But- genuine and intentional emotional support- of course that can be helpful and can be a true gift.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to throw all of Blues women into the bucket of low self esteem; it is possible to enjoy a sexual connection for its own merits, or to reinforce one's views of oneself as a sexual being, without having one's entire self image in the dumps. I would argue that true self esteem is not even everyone's goal, and also that for some, self acceptance includes accepting certain decisions such that she engages in casual sex.

 

Mostly, I would argue with some passion that we are best to refrain from making any assumptions about the women with whom Blue is intimately engaged (if any), on the grounds that we don't know them.

 

Where Blue risks stumbling over that old joke about making an ASS out of U and ME, we can avoid it by sticking to what is reported: Blue enjoys consensual sexual casual short term relationships, and part of his pleasure derives from his sense that he is helping them through a rough spot or otherwise beneficial in some interpersonal way.

 

It's a moment of friendly codependence perhaps.

 

Whatever it is, if everyone is honest and kind, live and let live.

[Batya33]

I'm not sure it's fair to throw all of Blues women into the bucket of low self esteem; it is possible to enjoy a sexual connection for its own merits, or to reinforce one's views of oneself as a sexual being, without having one's entire self image in the dumps. I would argue that true self esteem is not even everyone's goal, and also that for some, self acceptance includes accepting certain decisions such that she engages in casual sex.

 

Mostly, I would argue with some passion that we are best to refrain from making any assumptions about the women with whom Blue is intimately engaged (if any), on the grounds that we don't know them.

 

Where Blue risks stumbling over that old joke about making an ASS out of U and ME, we can avoid it by sticking to what is reported: Blue enjoys consensual sexual casual short term relationships, and part of his pleasure derives from his sense that he is helping them through a rough spot or otherwise beneficial in some interpersonal way.

 

It's a moment of friendly codependence perhaps.

 

Whatever it is, if everyone is honest and kind, live and let live.

 

I agree -never wrote or meant otherwise. Never made assumptions either, as I wrote. I agree sex with a stranger/casual sex in a sex arrangement/short term arrangement can provide short term ego boosts. I disagree with the OP's negative assumptions about "women" in general.

[IAmFCA]

I agree -never wrote or meant otherwise. Never made assumptions either, as I wrote. I agree sex with a stranger/casual sex in a sex arrangement/short term arrangement can provide short term ego boosts. I disagree with the OP's negative assumptions about "women" in general.

 

Those "short term ego boosts" might be more substantial than that.

[Batya33]

Those "short term ego boosts" might be more substantial than that.

 

I disagree in general that it's a long term solution if that is what you meant by substantial (with rare exception of course). For one thing, I am certain that a professional therapist or similar with professional integrity wouldn't advise a patient with low self esteem to try casual sex as a long term solution (no not referring to sex with a professional surrogate or to help sexual-related issues- just plain ole low self esteem). Getting emotional support from a caring person -sure! I am not a professional - just based on what I know of the profession, just by way of example (hope that is qualified enough!).

[Blue Spiral]

What do you make of these types of relationships and women? How do we fall into your model?

 

If there's no sex or possibility of sex, those women go into the irrelevant pile, right along with my entire gender. Please don't mistake me for a traditionalist, though. I'm well-aware of (and fine with) the fact that a growing number of women outearn men.

 

What is the estimate when you include cam models?

 

$2500, maybe? I don't take vacations or spend much money on non-essential things, so I've decided that I'm going to spend 500-1000 on cam models each year. I enjoy them much more than I enjoy traveling.

[JamesT2]

$2500, maybe? I don't take vacations or spend much money on non-essential things, so I've decided that I'm going to spend 500-1000 on cam models each year. I enjoy them much more than I enjoy traveling.

 

How would you know if you have never traveled? Abroad I mean. A road trip within or out of your State can be relieving too. Especially dragging a FWB with you.

[Blue Spiral]

How would you know if you have never traveled? Abroad I mean. A road trip within or out of your State can be relieving too. Especially dragging a FWB with you.

 

It just doesn't sound fun, to me. I did some traveling a long time ago, but I didn't enjoy it at all. I'd much rather be at home.

[JamesT2]

It just doesn't sound fun, to me. I did some traveling a long time ago, but I didn't enjoy it at all. I'd much rather be at home.

 

Vacation usually imply meeting new people which I understood you have zero interest in. That said, you meet women too.

 

Have you read Nietzsche ''Zarathustra''.

 

Thus spoke, Blue Spiral...

[Mr_LFA]

Of the six couples that live in my cul-de-sac, all in our 40s, five of the women out-earn their partners, most quite significantly (upwards of 50%).

 

I have spent more than $1,000 on my SO in 2016 alone, I would guess. He is unemployed having been laid off last year. Doesn't bother me in the least, as we are a team and support each other in different ways.

 

So you think these men might develop an inferiority complex or something, due to this? I know some men would hate to know they're earning significantly less than their partner. But just shows you how ambitious women are these days.

[itsallgrand]

I don't really understand your reasoning, to be honest Blue. In one breath, you speak of abhorring spending money on sexual gratification, and in the next, you are laying out a vacation sized budget for doing just that via the cam models. You speak of not wanting to support women using their sexual appeal for financial gain, but you support a business that is centred around exactly that?

 

It seems kind of hypocritical to me, the way you think.

 

That said, it's not my role to judge you, I've just been trying to understand where and how you've come to the beliefs and stances you have. In my eyes, you do see all women as essentially '' whose primary trade is what she has to sell sexually.

 

So I was nodding along with what Batya said, because, how can someone find value in themselves through casual sex with someone who does not even truly believe she has that value? Even in a fleeting sense, by way of seeing yourself through someone else's eyes for a moment, and it sparking a glint of awareness of that possibility, how? When the man essentially sees you as a commity looking to milk his budget?

 

It just seems like mutual delusion, a romantic indulgence. Which - ok- if neither wants anything more than that and it suits both involved.

 

I'm sure you did bring some bright spot to them, something they enjoyed, and obviously you got something too.

 

I do get Batyas objection though. And it's based on my belief that those who have accepted a view of themselves where it's acceptable to be treated as a commodity, shrink down their world and the smallest human kindness can be seen- and deeply felt- as a massive treat and rarity.

[IAmFCA]

I disagree in general that it's a long term solution if that is what you meant by substantial (with rare exception of course). For one thing, I am certain that a professional therapist or similar with professional integrity wouldn't advise a patient with low self esteem to try casual sex as a long term solution (no not referring to sex with a professional surrogate or to help sexual-related issues- just plain ole low self esteem). Getting emotional support from a caring person -sure! I am not a professional - just based on what I know of the profession, just by way of example (hope that is qualified enough!).

 

My overarching point is that if Blue is getting feedback that women feel better off after having met him, then I don't wish to challenge that, or to diminish it by saying that its only a short term ego boost. A short term association can have long term benefits - that is what I meant by more substantial.

[IAmFCA]

For folks trying to figure Blue out - I think its something he himself has said before. An underlying paradigm that tells him it is better to remain un-involved. For example, perhaps deeply seated within Blue's perspective is a fear of being left behind, an expectation of being rejected. In such a case, it is logical to refrain from becoming attached to anyone, so that when they move on, there is no sense of loss - in fact, it makes sense to move on first. Further, it is easier to remain disinterested if we assume qualities about others that are unattractive, selfish, etc. That assumption validates our desire to remain unattached, and the lack of attachment protects us from being abandoned.

 

It is a beautiful example of how we, as free range humans in the wilderness, protect ourselves.

[Blue Spiral]

I don't really understand your reasoning, to be honest Blue. In one breath, you speak of abhorring spending money on sexual gratification, and in the next, you are laying out a vacation sized budget for doing just that via the cam models. You speak of not wanting to support women using their sexual appeal for financial gain, but you support a business that is centred around exactly that?

 

Are you referring to prostitution? If so, the simple truth is that I'm against breaking the law (for strictly practical reasons), while I'm fine with legal behavior.

 

For folks trying to figure Blue out - I think its something he himself has said before. An underlying paradigm that tells him it is better to remain un-involved. For example, perhaps deeply seated within Blue's perspective is a fear of being left behind, an expectation of being rejected.

 

That's part of it, yes. I've experienced more than enough rejection for one lifetime; I don't plan on experiencing any more. I know that human beings--men in particular--are expected to be tough and get back on the horse, but I don't see the point.

[Blue Spiral]

Vacation usually imply meeting new people which I understood you have zero interest in. That said, you meet women too.

 

Have you read Nietzsche ''Zarathustra''.

 

Thus spoke, Blue Spiral...

 

I'm not the Ubermensch quite yet...but I'm getting there. Man is, indeed, something that shall be overcome.

[itsallgrand]

Makes a lot of sense, IThinkICan.

 

And Blue, makes sense distinction for you is the legality. But then if you lived in a place where prostitution is legal and easily accessible, would you consider partaking in it?

 

It's funny that when I heard of the new developments in virtual reality, I thought of you Blue. Some of what is coming out is just plain cool. I definitely think we will see some of the impact VR in the mainstream is going to have in changing the landscape in our lifetime.