Blue Spiral's Adventures in Solitude

[Blue Spiral]

Those Russian brides/porn women aren't making an effort to talk to you because it's you but because you're a business prospect. Big difference. (and I don't mean that to offend you -that is how they would approach any person).

 

Wow, I had no idea...I thought that they were genuinely interested in me. (ENA really needs a sarcasm font.)

 

I agree with Annie -it's important to figure out whether you like women as people.

 

No it isn't.

 

As far as the women who puzzle over their interactions with you -sure, if both of you enjoy that type of interaction to some extent there's nothing wrong with it.

 

I just said that I don't enjoy it, though it's a bit better than being outright ignored.

 

I don't know of any women who would like attention from strangers on line that was focused on sex (or from men in general).

 

We must live in two different universes, then. In my universe, it's extremely common for women to go on social networking sites or dating sites, post provocative pics of themselves, and then bask in all the attention that they get. I'm talking about normal, average women, who have hundreds or thousands of friends and get a hundred likes for every pic they post. They have tons of beta orbiters hanging on their every word...

[annie24]

Well, some pages back you said you had no contact with women for a week (just the banker?) and preferred it that way. I was suggesting you try to see women in a different light than just sexual. I know you said you're not a huge fan of people in general too though. But, unless you get on that mission to Mars, you're going to be on a planet full of people.

[Firiel]

Well, some pages back you said you had no contact with women for a week (just the banker?) and preferred it that way. I was suggesting you try to see women in a different light than just sexual. I know you said you're not a huge fan of people in general too though. But, unless you get on that mission to Mars, you're going to be on a planet full of people.

 

I think there is something to this. I know you don't really like people in general, but you seem kind of neutrally not fond of men, i.e. you may prefer to be alone, but you don't find them actively distasteful. I think if you could learn to view some of the non-sexual women you come into contact with just in daily life (teller at the bank, your co-worker accross the way, your cashier at the grocery store) with that same sort of neutral dislike that you view men, you may find your day-to-day life a little less stressful.

 

Just an idea.

[Batya33]

Wow, I had no idea...I thought that they were genuinely interested in me. (ENA really needs a sarcasm font.)

 

 

 

No it isn't.

 

 

 

I just said that I don't enjoy it, though it's a bit better than being outright ignored.

 

 

 

We must live in two different universes, then. In my universe, it's extremely common for women to go on social networking sites or dating sites, post provocative pics of themselves, and then bask in all the attention that they get. I'm talking about normal, average women, who have hundreds or thousands of friends and get a hundred likes for every pic they post. They have tons of beta orbiters hanging on their every word...

 

 

I've seen women who post photos like that to get attention. I know very few women personally who behave like that.

 

By "enjoy" I meant that you would rather have that attention than be ignored. I'd much prefer to be ignored and would hate that kind of attention.

[zentoCC]

I see what you mean about woman being curious about you. Maybe even trying to 'fix' you when you don't really want to be 'fixed'.

[Mr_LFA]

Wow, I had no idea...I thought that they were genuinely interested in me. (ENA really needs a sarcasm font.)

LOL!

 

In my universe, it's extremely common for women to go on social networking sites or dating sites, post provocative pics of themselves, and then bask in all the attention that they get. I'm talking about normal, average women, who have hundreds or thousands of friends and get a hundred likes for every pic they post. They have tons of beta orbiters hanging on their every word...

About 99% of girls on Tinder do this (snapchat and instagram are other vehicles they exploit too) . Some of them are well below average too. Best thing I ever did was delete it the other day.

[Blue Spiral]

Well, some pages back you said you had no contact with women for a week (just the banker?) and preferred it that way. I was suggesting you try to see women in a different light than just sexual.

 

Why? I mean, what's in it for me?

 

I know you said you're not a huge fan of people in general too though. But, unless you get on that mission to Mars, you're going to be on a planet full of people.

 

Instead of learning to like people...I'd rather just continue to like what I already like. As opposed to expending effort learning to like something that I don't like. That sounds convoluted, but hopefully you get my gist. For example, I could learn to like some new food, but it seems kind of pointless, because it's easier to enjoy the food I already like. I've never been an "I need to go out there and have new experiences!" guy. I've already had way too many new experiences, thanks.

 

Also, Mars seems kind of boring, to me. I've never liked the desert. Short of being chosen for a life-long solitude experiment in a bio-dome-type place, my dream is to wake up one morning and find that I'm the only human being left on Earth! I'd proclaim myself Tyrant For All Eternity and go about doing any number of wild and wacky things.

 

I think there is something to this. I know you don't really like people in general, but you seem kind of neutrally not fond of men, i.e. you may prefer to be alone, but you don't find them actively distasteful. I think if you could learn to view some of the non-sexual women you come into contact with just in daily life (teller at the bank, your co-worker accross the way, your cashier at the grocery store) with that same sort of neutral dislike that you view men, you may find your day-to-day life a little less stressful.

 

Just an idea.

 

I think that women are a lot better than men, actually. But, if I actually needed something from men, I'm sure that I'd find them even more distasteful, and god knows that you'd hear a lot of whinging from me about it. As it is, I don't need anything from men, so I don't have any reason to complain about them.

 

I've seen women who post photos like that to get attention. I know very few women personally who behave like that.

 

I have a feeling that we travel in very different social circles.

 

By "enjoy" I meant that you would rather have that attention than be ignored. I'd much prefer to be ignored and would hate that kind of attention.

 

See, I think that men are the opposite. I'd kill for a constant stream of sex-only attention from women. (Yes, even unattractive, possibly psychotic ones. The sheer novelty of it...!)

 

I see what you mean about woman being curious about you. Maybe even trying to 'fix' you when you don't really want to be 'fixed'.

 

If there's one thing that animals have taught me, it's that being "fixed" ain't all it's cracked up to be.

 

About 99% of girls on Tinder do this (snapchat and instagram are other vehicles they exploit too) . Some of them are well below average too. Best thing I ever did was delete it the other day.

 

The funniest part is, even the unattractive/"old" ones still have tons of guys hanging on their every word. That's why I find it so hard to believe that women have it tougher in dating/relationship stuff. I absolutely believe that women have it tougher in society, but dating/relationships? lolnope. Can you imagine a world where, if you just showed up and were sort of average-looking and weren't psycho (for the most part), it would result in women paying attention to you and buttering you up and taking you on dates? That's what they have! Not to get too philosophical, but, we're expected to do, while women are expected to be. According to traditional roles, our job is to impress them, and their job is to figure out who impresses them the most. Not a bad life.

[zentoCC]

Haha, you have a wicked sense of humour.

But you'll have to introduce me to these women so I can learn their secret. I never get asked out. Maybe I'm uglier than I thought.... Or I like shy guys.

 

Do you like socialising online compared to in person?

[Blue Spiral]

Haha, you have a wicked sense of humour.

 

Thank you! I'm usually deadpan serious, but I can be funny on occasion.

 

But you'll have to introduce me to these women so I can learn their secret. I never get asked out. Maybe I'm uglier than I thought.... Or I like shy guys.

 

Yeah, it might be a thing where guys are too shy to ask you out, or their flirting is so subtle/timid that you don't even notice it. Some women attract men like that. That said...this is strictly anecdotal, but, I get the feeling that men aren't asking out women like we used to. A growing number of us are jaded and risk-averse.

 

And here comes another "but": you're going to laugh, but, I think that pop-culture can tell us a lot about where a society is at, and that includes commercials. I have a crazy-good memory for this stuff, and I remember the commercials from when I was growing up, including the jewelry ones. When I'm watching a football game around the holidays, and I see a jewelry commercial come on, it seems like they have to sell a little harder than they used to. Like it isn't as easy to get men to buy stuff for women, anymore.

 

Do you like socialising online compared to in person?

 

Yes! If I get bored or want to do something else, I can click a button and make the other person go away.

[zentoCC]

I've spoke to a few guys that said they won't ask girls out. If both girls and guys are both waiting to get asked outs it's going to get a bit awkward at some point... Or everyone's going to end up single.

 

Haha, I like making people go away when they bore me. I wish it was easier in real life.

[Blue Spiral]

I've spoke to a few guys that said they won't ask girls out. If both girls and guys are both waiting to get asked outs it's going to get a bit awkward at some point... Or everyone's going to end up single.

 

I've never asked out a woman. True story. (I tried to, once, but it didn't go so well. I'm glad; I found a vastly superior way of doing things.)

 

Haha, I like making people go away when they bore me. I wish it was easier in real life.

 

It is! You just walk away. Or I do, anyway.

[itsallgrand]

Never?! wow. But it's so fun. And you only tried once?

[zentoCC]

What's your superior way of doing things ?

 

I have done that before, but when these people are more than just randoms it can make things a bit awkward for next time.

[Blue Spiral]

Never?! wow. But it's so fun. And you only tried once?

 

"fun"?? How many people have you asked out?

 

I may or may not have actually "tried." My attempt at a pre-asking-out conversation went disastrously, and so I didn't actually get around to asking her out. But I originally intended to. If I don't enjoy doing/trying something, I don't do/try it again.

 

What's your superior way of doing things ?

 

It used to be friends-with-benefits. I learned that, if I just skipped all that courtship crap and asked women if they wanted to hook up, a surprising percentage would say yes! It worked pretty well for me--far better than any relationship stuff ever did--but I got frustrated/bored with it and eventually gave up. I'm celibate for now.

 

I have done that before, but when these people are more than just randoms it can make things a bit awkward for next time.

 

I avoid that problem by avoiding people in general.

[itsallgrand]

I'm not sure actual numbers. It's been quite a lot. Yeah - fun. I always felt more comfortable in the more active role. So I do find it interesting reading your comfort level, because it's sort of like the flip side of my experiences. I had to learn to get more comfortable allowing someone else to initiate sometimes, and to not instantly shut down to that. That was, and still is, more challenging to me than asking a guy out or initiating something that would lead to it.

[faraday]

I'm not sure actual numbers. It's been quite a lot. Yeah - fun. I always felt more comfortable in the more active role. So I do find it interesting reading your comfort level, because it's sort of like the flip side of my experiences. I had to learn to get more comfortable allowing someone else to initiate sometimes, and to not instantly shut down to that. That was, and still is, more challenging to me than asking a guy out or initiating something that would lead to it.

 

Me too! But I found that when I let the guy ask me out, the quality of my relationships goes WAY up...probably because they're interested in me enough to ask me out, not just coast along and let me do everything.

 

So hard not to be the more dominant, controlling version of myself

 

Most of the guys I've talked to said they'll get more rejection on fwb than dates....if chicks are saying yes to sex BS, they'd most likely say yes to a date.

[Blue Spiral]

I'm not sure actual numbers. It's been quite a lot. Yeah - fun. I always felt more comfortable in the more active role.

 

"comfortable" is pretty much the last word I'd use to describe the idea of having an "active role."

 

Most of the guys I've talked to said they'll get more rejection on fwb than dates....if chicks are saying yes to sex BS, they'd most likely say yes to a date.

 

Oops, I'm not being clear, again. I don't want to date women, and never have. I think that the whole "dating" concept is ridiculous. The one time I nearly gave in and tried it...well, that was only because of (potential) sex.

 

Incidentally, in regards to quality, I've had the exact opposite experience: I'm not exactly an ideal relationship candidate myself, so most of the women that have wanted to be in a relationship with me have been on the unattractive side, while I've been able to get very attractive FWBs. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it really isn't. I don't fit the "relationship ideal" enough to get a hot woman long-term, but I can convince her over the short-term.

[Batya33]

I asked out about 6 men (and asked for many first meets -more than 20 I'd say) including one who I asked to be my boyfriend (in college). Same experience as Faraday. Rejection rate was somewhere less than 50% and having it lead to a relationship (the ones I asked out, not for first meets) - 0%. Not surprised at all. I never considered asking a stranger for a first meet asking him out on a date nor did I feel that a stranger asking to meet me in person was asking me for a date, just throwing it into the mix for this post.

 

If back then I would have felt it was an effective way to find a long term relationship leading to marriage I would have done far more asking out -was much easier for me and I felt comfortable doing so.

[itsallgrand]

I agree that there have been a lot of positive results too in my experience by learning to allow men to initiate more often and to become more comfortable with that.

My experiences have been a little more mixed.

First meets and dates have not made or broke the situation (who initiates) but as it goes in further, my experience is that men generally feel more comfortable leading the relationship. It sticks in my mouth to say that, it feels like a huge generalization, and it's not easier for me that it is that way, but that is purely my experience.

Regardless, if they are interested, they will make an effort. It's common sense really, but honestly, it seems like men are less interested in seeing effort from women than in being received.

But you know what? I am alright with that. Who technically leads needn't be a big deal; it's more important to me to be with someone where it's clear the interest is mutual.

[faraday]

"comfortable" is pretty much the last word I'd use to describe the idea of having an "active role."

 

 

 

Oops, I'm not being clear, again. I don't want to date women, and never have. I think that the whole "dating" concept is ridiculous. The one time I nearly gave in and tried it...well, that was only because of (potential) sex.

 

Incidentally, in regards to quality, I've had the exact opposite experience: I'm not exactly an ideal relationship candidate myself, so most of the women that have wanted to be in a relationship with me have been on the unattractive side, while I've been able to get very attractive FWBs. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it really isn't. I don't fit the "relationship ideal" enough to get a hot woman long-term, but I can convince her over the short-term.

 

I know that you don't want to date. I was responding to when you mentioned that you've never asked anyone out...that you tried to but it went disastrously and so you never tried again, and find that you have a higher success rate for asking fwb.

 

I've talked to a few guys about that, and everyone one of them has said its way easier to get a date than a consistent fwb (although random hook ups are easier).

 

I guess....I just wonder if your aversion to relationships comes from your fear of rejection. Maybe you feel like you don't have enough to offer a potential relationship...so instead of getting rejected, you'll do the rejecting?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Blue Spiral]

Regardless, if they are interested, they will make an effort.

 

I've been interested in many women that I didn't have the courage to approach. With all due respect, I think that your statement is just a rationalization that enables traditional gender norms. "If a guy really likes me, he'll ask me out...I don't need to worry about paying attention to guys that may like me but didn't ask me out, because they don't actually exist!" It's just a way for you to believe that you made a good-faith effort, and that you did everything possible on your end. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. "He didn't ask me out, so I guess he doesn't like me!"

 

I've talked to a few guys about that, and everyone one of them has said its way easier to get a date than a consistent fwb (although random hook ups are easier).

 

Wow, women like being taken on dates (which the men pay for) more than FWB?? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

 

I guess....I just wonder if your aversion to relationships comes from your fear of rejection. Maybe you feel like you don't have enough to offer a potential relationship...so instead of getting rejected, you'll do the rejecting?

 

I feel like the fear of rejection is a very sane, healthy thing, and the idea that men need to hold out our egos and let women hit them like pinatas...it's just crazy, to me.

 

My aversion to relationships comes from many places, including the fact that I'm incapable of monogamy.

[Batya33]

Being paid for was never a motivating factor for me. There was even a time when a guy I wasn't that interested in wanted to take me to see the Stones -I was so psyched but told him that I would go with him but that I wasn't sure we would click in that way. He said that was fine and took me (there was no way at that time I could afford the ticket price but I think I paid for snacks). I declined dates to fancy restaurants, fancy events because I wasn't that into the guy. And I did my share of paying as well.

[Blue Spiral]

Being paid for was never a motivating factor for me. There was even a time when a guy I wasn't that interested in wanted to take me to see the Stones -I was so psyched but told him that I would go with him but that I wasn't sure we would click in that way. He said that was fine and took me (there was no way at that time I could afford the ticket price but I think I paid for snacks). I declined dates to fancy restaurants, fancy events because I wasn't that into the guy. And I did my share of paying as well.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I don't care. I don't care about how you dated or how you met your husband or whatever. You and I are completely different, and I wasn't interested in women like you, and your life has absolutely nothing to do with my life. I can't control whether or not you post in this thread, but I'm sure that there are plenty of relationship-minded, marriage-seeking people who would love to hear what you have to say. Those terms obviously don't apply to me.

[itsallgrand]

Oh geez Blue. You couldn't be further off in your assessment in my thinking! I already mentioned how I would rather approach and initiate than take a more restrained position of waiting for someone else to lead where I wanna go! And I've tried both ways.

I don't have an investment in the traditional gender roles...actually, it would be a relief for me if more men were more comfortable about allowing a woman to lead..I'm just talking from my own experiences.

That a person - male or female - who is interested enough to be a relationship candidate, will put in effort somehow.

 

Since you aren't looking for a relationship, it doesn't matter to you though right, it doesn't apply.

[Batya33]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I don't care. I don't care about how you dated or how you met your husband or whatever. You and I are completely different, and I wasn't interested in women like you, and your life has absolutely nothing to do with my life. I can't control whether or not you post in this thread, but I'm sure that there are plenty of relationship-minded, marriage-seeking people who would love to hear what you have to say. Those terms obviously don't apply to me.

 

I was simply responding to your generalizations about women. I agree with Itsallgrand and agree that relationship-type experiences do not apply to you because you do not want a relationship with a woman and it also sounds like you don't much care whether you have friendships with either men or women. It doesn't bother me at all that you don't care - I didn't post so that you would care, I simply responded to your opinion about "women".