Blue Spiral Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Well, I am single and mostly lonely aside from people coming over every other evening and rarely get emotional. I know a friend (married, three children) who could never ever spend an evening alone. Hes just afraid of that. I dont know if its emotional, its a fear at least. His wife is the same. I re-read your first post here and I can relate... Being in love with the school cutie. Having a night to myself on Ocarina of Time, etc. Looking back, my teen years leave me a mixed feeling. I could have done a lot better (both in school and dating, lets call it that) but was even more shy (terribly shy) than now. As far as I'm concerned, my teen years never happened. Married guys kind of creep me out. I get a weird vibe from them. Some people are definitely like that. Even though I'm a social creature, I'm ok with being single. I mean, I'd like to meet a great guy, but I'm perfectly happy spending Saturday night by myself or with friends. I think it's weird when couples are super clingy. Some years ago, I went on a 2-day work trip with some coworkers to a city 3 hours away. Most of us spent the night at a hotel there, while one man drove all the way home at night and all the way back in the morning so that he wasn't away from his wife. My boss rolled her eyes at that. My boss and her husband had a very good relationship, but they also gave each other a lot of space. If I ever get married, I can see myself wanting my own room or study or just wanting to spend time with girlfriends. Shameful Blue Spiral confession: during the rare times that I was in a relationship, I was actually sort of clingy, in the sense that I wanted to be around them all the time (both for sexual reasons and for "oh my god I actually have a girlfriend" reasons). Granted, none of my relationships lasted long: they never got out of the honeymoon stage, which may explain that. There is a gap where appropriate status would be for single women. And there is a gap for appropriate emotional support for single men. I think there is actually something to what you say there. It's also a whole lot more expensive being a single woman with no kids. Taken on the whole. The system and society does encourage coupling up and having children. It definitely does. And if you don't want to follow the usual script? Yikes. People have interesting reactions to me...I'm not interested in relationships, so I must be focusing on my career...but I'm not ambitious, either. They don't know what to make of me. (Well, that isn't quite true, I'm often accused of being an immature man-child. I like to play video games for maybe half an hour every day, so that means I'm an overgrown teenager, apparently. Now, I actually am immature in several ways, but the video games have nothing to do with it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Amman Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 afraid-to-be-single women, meanwhile, view single women as being somehow lower-status, in that they aren't "good enough" to attract a higher-status partner. I would disagree with this only because my two friends who immediately came into a new relationship after they broke up with their long-term-other-partner where both quite attractive. In fact one of them is model-like attractive. She works for a lingerie label and I heard a lot of my male family members ask about her and saying to me how attractive looking she is. She is one of the most attractive females I've met to be honest. But she hopped from one relationship into the other and never could call her single in between. Is she afraid she would be alone? Maybe so. But I don't think she would be afraid to not finding a male interested in her. She also has a pretty good paying job and doesn't need the financial benefits either. The other one is quite attractive. She has enough male attention but besides that she is one of the most secure female/person's that I know of. She is very upfront, has a steady job/income and doesn't bull around much. She really doesn't look like someone that needs to be in a relationship. I think with her it was just 'bad luck' that she happened to meet this new guy so fast after she broke off her relationship of 14 years. So it to me it doesn't seems to be the 'lower-status' I'm not attractive enough-factor. There is something else in play why these women (and men) choose to hop from one relationship to another. I think a lot of people are afraid they made the wrong choice by leaving there partner, so a lot of them are staying longer in the relationship than it might be healthy. And by that time your eyes and mind start to wonder and you find a better mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Lucia: it sounds like the women you mentioned are getting their status from themselves, as opposed to the men in their life. I think that's a good thing. Also, I agree that it isn't always about status: I'm sure that many people stay in a relationship because they're afraid of what would happen without the other person, as you mentioned. I suspect that some women thrive on commitment, some thrive on attention from men (I originally typed "me", talk about a Freudian slip), and some thrive on personal success. Outside of a certain talent, I've never had much going for me, so you'd think that I'd seek out a relationship to improve my own self-esteem/status...and I kind of did, early in my life. Having a girlfriend made me feel a lot better about myself. (And I won't lie, being seen with a hot woman did wonders for my previously-thought-dead ego.) But the commitment part was pretty stifling. I always wondered why I struggled with women (and people in general), but, looking back, I can see that it's partially because I don't care about them very much. I'd rather be off doing my own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I just got some good work-related news--a situation that I've been worrying about is much closer to being resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick974 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Speaking of which, Blue. I wont ask for personal details about your job but have you worked for 15 years in a row (as you are 36)? Have you stayed in the same company? Have you ever experienced unemployement? Sorry if its not a Fwb related question but I got a bit curious about your work situation as you occasionally mention it, albeit briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Speaking of which, Blue. I wont ask for personal details about your job but have you worked for 15 years in a row (as you are 36)? Longer than that, actually. Have you stayed in the same company? I actually work for multiple parties. I've been in my "main" job for seven or eight years. Have you ever experienced unemployement? I've been very briefly between jobs, but not for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Well, I haven't had many new things to report, lately. I'm very rarely in this position, but, I actually rejected a woman, the other day. Though maybe "ignored her until she went away" would be a better way of putting it. She kept messaging me, but I didn't find her attractive. So I've rejected four or five women, and women have rejected me...um...wow, I don't want to count all those up. I had an extremely interesting/weird conversation with DAISY's future boyfriend/husband, aka married guy. It was weird because of me, not him, and it wasn't the jealousy-tinged melodramatic crap that you might be expecting in a situation like that. But that story will have to wait for another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Do you really see that as "rejecting" a person? You simply declined to continue talking with her to meet up for sex - you rejected having sex with her -no big deal, nothing to do with rejecting her as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Do you really see that as "rejecting" a person? You simply declined to continue talking with her to meet up for sex - you rejected having sex with her -no big deal, nothing to do with rejecting her as a person. As far as I'm concerned, rejecting someone for sex is a huge deal. Now, that may be my Y chromosome talking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, rejecting someone for sex is a huge deal. Now, that may be my Y chromosome talking... No, it's declining to have sex with that person because you are not sexually attracted - so what - it says nothing about whether others will feel that way unless the reason is something personal to the person like body odor for example. I am friendly with two men I just wasn't attracted to in that way. I like them as friends, admire and respect them, find them intelligent, witty, thoughtful - but they were not for me romantically. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm very rarely in this position, but, I actually rejected a woman, the other day. Though maybe "ignored her until she went away" would be a better way of putting it. She kept messaging me, but I didn't find her attractive. So I've rejected four or five women, and women have rejected me...um...wow, I don't want to count all those up. how did it make you feel? bad? sad? uncomfortable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 No, it's declining to have sex with that person because you are not sexually attracted - so what - it says nothing about whether others will feel that way unless the reason is something personal to the person like body odor for example. I am friendly with two men I just wasn't attracted to in that way. I like them as friends, admire and respect them, find them intelligent, witty, thoughtful - but they were not for me romantically. So what? Please do me a favor and imagine an inverted version of what you just said: a situation where a man only wants to have sex with a woman, and doesn't like her as a person. That would usually make the woman feel bad, right? The reverse applies to men in the exact same way. If the feelings you're talking about don't lead to something, then the feelings are meaningless. Anyone can talk about feelings without acting on them. It's like telling a car salesman that a certain car is awesome, and you love it, and it's exactly what buyers are looking for...but you aren't going to buy it yourself...and then you wonder why that makes him unhappy. You like it, sure, but you don't like it enough to act on the feeling. When I was younger, I was in situations where the girl "liked" me but didn't want to have sex with me. I am here to tell you that that sort of "liking" is no substitute for sex. I'd rather have a woman have sex with me and hate me afterwards than "like" me and not have sex with me. I'd rather have a woman describe me as a mistake that she really regrets than be the "safe guy friend" that's always there for her, but isn't good enough to sleep with (while having to watch a parade of morons who apparently are). I've had more than enough unsatisfying, frustrating, disgustingly-platonic "liking" for one lifetime. how did it make you feel? bad? sad? uncomfortable? See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Nope -not true for "men" -perhaps true for you. For example, I know my husband would never have approached a woman just for sex because that's not what he was into -not because of fear of rejection just no interest in that kind of arrangement. I was approached by men just for sex and it didn't make me feel badly about myself -just knew I wasn't into casual sex, he was, we weren't compatible. I never got involved with men who wanted me just for sex so if that situation arose we barely knew each other at that point and no, I didn't take it personally -he didn't know me well enough to reject me personally. Feelings without action can be entirely meaningful -I certainly desired certain men sexually and also knew that I wasn't ready to have sex at that point so I would say no. Some men would then walk away (fine) and others would feel as I did about waiting and be very happy that I had those feeling for them (and the reverse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'd rather not debate certain aspects of the male experience with women, simply because both genders go through unique experiences that the other gender can never truly "get". I'm never going to fully understand pregnancy or physical vulnerability any more than you're going to fully understand what a true lack of access to sex does to a person. We can understand these things conceptually, sure, but the actual experience is another matter entirely. That said...after a certain number of "nice guy" threads, you'd think that the pattern would become clear. On a depressing note: remember my work nightmare from the summer? I thought it was over--and it pretty much is--but one last thing came up, and it was disheartening, to say the least. I must be a pretty sheltered person; I keep forgetting that people can be...yeah. On a positive note: my friendship with the cam-model is going well! Some people are nice, at least. Yeah, she's a cam-model, all the usual blah-blah-blah about those types, but they're people like anyone else, some good and some bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbirch Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "On a positive note: my friendship with the cam-model is going well! Some people are nice, at least. Yeah, she's a cam-model, all the usual blah-blah-blah about those types, but they're people like anyone else, some good and some bad." Awwwww! I really like that. I think I might be rare in that I have never really "gotten" the hatred a lot of people have expressed for Miley Cyrus. I don't think she does harm to anyone, she's a performer and pretty cheeky, but so what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "true lack of access to sex does to a person." You were referring to an individual woman declining to have sex with you, not a "true lack of access to sex". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 "On a positive note: my friendship with the cam-model is going well! Some people are nice, at least. Yeah, she's a cam-model, all the usual blah-blah-blah about those types, but they're people like anyone else, some good and some bad." Awwwww! I really like that. I think I might be rare in that I have never really "gotten" the hatred a lot of people have expressed for Miley Cyrus. I don't think she does harm to anyone, she's a performer and pretty cheeky, but so what! In America, the culture is still pretty sex-negative, sadly. "true lack of access to sex does to a person." You were referring to an individual woman declining to have sex with you, not a "true lack of access to sex". A series of individual women declining to have sex with you = a true lack of access to sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "A series of individual women declining to have sex with you = a true lack of access to sex." Sure, that can be your opinion. I had many men decide not to date men but never considered that a "lack of access to finding a husband" -just individuals who were not interested in me, not available, both, whatever. If you want to find a woman to have sex with then you keep looking. Obviously not a "lack of access" just requires more effort/work or looking inward perhaps to see if there are changes to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 "A series of individual women declining to have sex with you = a true lack of access to sex." Sure, that can be your opinion. That...can be my opinion? It is my opinion, actually. Please let me know if anything can't be my opinion. Unreasonable expectations for how much effort/work it should take to get sex = a true lack of (reasonable) access to sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 duplicate deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That...can be my opinion? It is my opinion, actually. Please let me know if anything can't be my opinion. Unreasonable expectations for how much effort/work it should take to get sex = a true lack of (reasonable) access to sex. Yes, I understand it's your subjective standard/expectations of how easy it should be to have access to sexual intercourse. Chuckled at you sarcasm -thanks In my opinion your expectations/standards are highly unrealistic and explain some of the negative attitude you have about women. Perhaps you'll feel differently about whether or not you had "access" if, for example, you're required to pay child support or pay out of pocket for some nasty STD treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, I understand it's your subjective standard/expectations of how easy it should be to have access to sexual intercourse. Chuckled at you sarcasm -thanks In my opinion your expectations/standards are highly unrealistic I think that I have much simpler expectations, and much more basic standards, than the vast majority of men and (in particular) women. I'm obviously not in this for long-term stuff, so my "must have" list is extremely short. All I really care about is the woman being attractive and non-psycho. (And, frankly, I'm pretty flexible on the second one.) Whereas many women want a strong man...who's also sensitive! A steady, reliable guy...who's also a bit of a rebel! A guy that's traditional in the "right" ways...but not the wrong ones! and explain some of the negative attitude you have about women. I have an extremely positive attitude about certain aspects of women, and an extremely negative attitude about other aspects. "Blue Spiral is totally holding out for a Kelly Brook/Kate Upton type" is not the secret origin of my bitterness, sadly. Let's be honest, though: outside of sex, I'm not a fan of people in general. Much like a certain TV doctor, I'm a misanthrope, not a misogynist. Perhaps you'll feel differently about whether or not you had "access" if, for example, you're required to pay child support or pay out of pocket for some nasty STD treatment. That's...sort of a non-sequitur. Are you saying that men (or people in general) should be thankful for all the times they didn't have sex, since something bad might have happened as a result? Sex is like shelter--it's one of the most basic needs that human beings have. Sure, you can technically survive without it, but it isn't very fun. By your logic, homeless people shouldn't be complaining: if they had a house, the roof might cave in on them! Wow, they really dodged a bullet, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 My only point was that your definition of true lack of access implies a level of expectation that in my view is unrealistic especially since you want someone who wants casual sex. I don't think sexual intercourse is a "need" - can be a desire and a want for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I don't think sexual intercourse is a "need" - can be a desire and a want for sure. I'm not sure about that. I think sex, or rather, sexual fulfilment (could include masturbation), is a genuine biological need for both those who are a part of couples or singles. Maslow's Hierarchy of needs lists it as a psychological need, somewhere in the middle of the hierarchy pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 I don't think sexual intercourse is a "need" Let me show you my surprised face. I'm not sure about that. I think sex, or rather, sexual fulfilment (could include masturbation), is a genuine biological need for both those who are a part of couples or singles. Maslow's Hierarchy of needs lists it as a psychological need, somewhere in the middle of the hierarchy pyramid. I was thinking of the exact same thing. The mere fact that anyone would try to lessen the importance of sex...wow. That says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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