notalady Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 That's great your son found the right girl!! His ex sounds like high maintenance lol.. I think most women fall somewhere in between not wanting to work at all and being career driven, and there are men who will be attracted to both end of the spectrum and in between. I know men who expect their wives to be stay at home mums when they have kids so obviously the career driven women won't suit them, but others who subscribe to the more modern family structure where both parents work (at least part time) and appreciate financial independence and drive in a woman would appreciate the other end of the spectrum. Personally I would never give up my financial independence for anyone. I also care about making something out of my career, so a man who can't accept or support that would not be suitable for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I am career driven and my husband knew that and also knew I planned on being with a child full-time for at least the first few years. Both can be true in one person. I have not given up my financial independence because I made sure I had my own nest egg before leaving my career. I did make something out of my career and I'm fine with not returning to that level so that I can return to work in some capacity and still be there for our son the way I would like to be. I know several women like me. I only have one friend who would prefer not to work outside the home but she has to for financial reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Since you don't care about insults. I'm sure you also won't care that you ally interest me. I love hearing alternative views on things, especially in an environment that they don't try and influence my own, I hate having to defend my views. The reason I'm actually writing on here is that I love your first post in this journal, best one I've ever read. Not that you care of course. Thanks, I really appreciate that. I'll probably do some more biographical posts like that...once I stop being lazy. I'm interested in alternate views, as well, which is part of why I'm here. I like to learn how other people think. Also, this isn't in specific reference to you, but an addendum to my shame-proof rant: I don't need (or want) other people...but that's just on a personal level. On a society-wide level, we all need other people, obviously. I didn't build the roads I drive on, nor did I build my computer, and I'm extremely thankful for all the highly-competent people that keep our civilization running, as my own "skill-set" is narrow and highly impractical. I'm an amoral individualist, but please don't think I'm that kind of amoral individualist. Sadly, I believe the survey results. I know it's common but that's always been a little bit of a peeve of mine: how everyone is hyper focused on looks. I'm not really striving to change that though, I just look for people more like me, and I've had success. It's just more comical to me now. If you're looking for a short term fling, then yes, by all means, focus on looks. If you're looking for something very long term, you need to focus more on other things if you want it to last. This is just the cynic in me, but, I think that "long term" will be less and less possible as time goes on. That said, I think that many men are low-maintenance enough (when it comes to women's personalities) that relationships can last simply because of attraction and inertia. I know that the romantic narrative is "you have to look inside the person and see if they have Goodness and Strength and Character" or whatever, but I think that most guys look inside and are like "Ehh, close enough." While I don't think your superficial/overly-sexual nature is unusual, I don't think that men with non-superficial/overly-sexual natures are unusual either. You could very well be right...but I haven't come accross many. Or any. If it does happen, I think it's mainly a status-symbol thing, sadly. "Oh, my fiancee has a degree from an Ivy League college, just like me." In other words, a man not caring about a woman's career doesn't necessarily indicate an overly-sexual nature, though I do think it implies an adherence to stereotypical gender roles. For the record, I do not adhere to stereotypical gender roles. Outside of football and boobs and maybe superheroes, I don't like any stereotypical "guy stuff". Instead, I'm "shy" and "sensitive" and "artsy" and all that. You wouldn't believe the scandal I caused when I declined to sign up for baseball in fifth or sixth grade. Anyway, it is really interesting to read your perspectives considering we seem to approach life and relationships in a fundamentally different way. I do want to add, props for being honest with the women you sleep with about what you are looking for. I've lost out on soooooooooooo much good sex because I'm honest. Evil, evil honesty. If I'd just lie and say I'm looking for a relationship, I'd get the sex for a while, and the women would quickly reject me for a variety of reasons, anyway. It'd never get to the "Blue Spiral breaks her heart" stage, because she'd immediately see that monogamy and I are like oil and water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zentoCC Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think I get it, you get the need to have all these people for society and our lives to function. You just have no desire to interact with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This is just the cynic in me, but, I think that "long term" will be less and less possible as time goes on. That said, I think that many men are low-maintenance enough (when it comes to women's personalities) that relationships can last simply because of attraction and inertia. I know that the romantic narrative is "you have to look inside the person and see if they have Goodness and Strength and Character" or whatever, but I think that most guys look inside and are like "Ehh, close enough." It all depends on what the priorities are. If companionship is most important to both parties, then it may have more staying power. I would be careful not to generalize to 100% extent. I think that many men, if not most, are like you in that looks are #1 and everything else is "good enough". But not 100% of men. I know because if that were true, I'd have no dating experience right now. I am very careful to not pick men who has those priorities because they would not be happy with me and I would not be with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewing Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 My only success ever has been with the women who are capable of mental stimulation with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think I get it, you get the need to have all these people for society and our lives to function. You just have no desire to interact with them. That's correct. I would be careful not to generalize to 100% extent. I think that many men, if not most, are like you in that looks are #1 and everything else is "good enough". But not 100% of men. I know because if that were true, I'd have no dating experience right now. I am very careful to not pick men who has those priorities because they would not be happy with me and I would not be with them. I'm sure you're right. My only success ever has been with the women who are capable of mental stimulation with me. I was actually pretty compatible personality-wise with both of my girlfriends. They're probably the only two women I ever mentally connected with. Unfortunately, we were still too different to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 For the record, I do not adhere to stereotypical gender roles. Outside of football and boobs and maybe superheroes, I don't like any stereotypical "guy stuff". Instead, I'm "shy" and "sensitive" and "artsy" and all that. You wouldn't believe the scandal I caused when I declined to sign up for baseball in fifth or sixth grade. Yeah, it has seemed from your posts that you don't really fit stereotypical gender roles. And I definitely didn't mean to imply that you did at all-- just that the fact that women value a career more highlights the way society emphasizes a career as more important for men than women. My own view on the career thing has definitely changed. In the past, I would have cared less about a career/financial security. However, after dealing with my ex and all the crap that comes with someone who is completely financially irresponsible and who claims to desire stability but whose actions clearly say something else, I'm over not caring about someone's job situation. Now, I still don't need to be with a CEO by any means. But the idea of someone who is working full-time at a job, who doesn't drop jobs/careers the moment something shiny comes along, and who makes enough money to support himself... well, that is just devastatingly attractive after being with someone who spent $600 on iTunes in a month while being nearly unemployed and "pursuing his music" by playing in dive bars a few times a month. I can only hope that people I might date have a similar outlook-- valuing financial stability but not necessarily needing someone with a great career. Careers are hard for us millennials, and while doing just fine for myself (I meet the requirements I set out above), I'm most certainly not doing sexy/interesting/appealing/super-fruitful-financially work. Of course, if my boyfriend got offered a position that paid $80,000/yr, I certainly wouldn't complain about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 $600 a month on iTunes!! Geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 $600 a month on iTunes!! Geez Yeah, I don't even know. I never did figure it out. He said it was just music that he had to buy because he felt trapped in every other way, but there is just no way I can imagine that. Some days, I want to call him up and say, "Okay, it's been a year. I know you cheated, you know I know you cheated... just reveal the answer the the iTunes mystery! It's been driving me up the wall!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 My own view on the career thing has definitely changed. In the past, I would have cared less about a career/financial security. However, after dealing with my ex and all the crap that comes with someone who is completely financially irresponsible and who claims to desire stability but whose actions clearly say something else, I'm over not caring about someone's job situation. Now, I still don't need to be with a CEO by any means. But the idea of someone who is working full-time at a job, who doesn't drop jobs/careers the moment something shiny comes along, and who makes enough money to support himself... well, that is just devastatingly attractive after being with someone who spent $600 on iTunes in a month while being nearly unemployed and "pursuing his music" by playing in dive bars a few times a month. With the way that men are dropping out of the economy, I wish you luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 With the way that men are dropping out of the economy, I wish you luck. I figure I'm not expecting anything more than I bring to the table, so I'm still good. Boyfriend's new job actually pays a little more than mine, so it will be nice to have the financial load in our relationship evened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'm thinking about listing and analyzing the various obstacles I've had to deal with, relationship-wise, and posting them in this thread. Just so people can get a more complete picture of what my life has been like, in that area. I posted something similar in one of my old threads, but it was a very quick, basic list. The thing is...it's negative, and I'm trying to be positive. But I should probably post it and get it out of my system once and for all. Maybe I'll do it early next week, after football. I've been out in public more than usual, lately (work stuff and grocery shopping), and I've seen a ton of attractive women. Strangely, the more of them I see, the more resolved I am to be celibate: as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are a few women that currently want to be FWBs with me, but they just aren't attractive enough. After seeing real hotness, I find myself refusing to compromise and settle for sorta-hotness. That said...as ever, I get depressed when I see women like that, because I know I'd never have a chance with them (unless I lied, or completely changed myself into someone that I'm not). Twenty years of feeling like that = not fun. I've had access to real hotness for short periods of time, but never on a sustained basis. That's literally the only time that I wish I knew how to make a relationship last longer than a few months. It's sort of maddening to think that there are 21-year-olds that have more relationship experience than I do...I feel like I'm colorblind or something. Everyone else can do it just fine, but I'm incapable. Granted, I only want to do it for selfish, sexual reasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If your main standard and heavy focus is on physical features then I'm not sure why you're surprised at the situation in which you find yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 If your main standard and heavy focus is on physical features then I'm not sure why you're surprised at the situation in which you find yourself. I'm not surprised...just annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Do you ever think that maybe you could maybe find a good relationship (monogamous or not, don't really care) with a woman and feel better if you found one that you actually enjoyed spending time with? I mean, really enjoyed spending time with, not finding her boring, or tiresome, etc? I know you have posted about not enjoying the company of women. I can't really blame you, as many (especially at certain, younger ages) are really boring or have inane interests that I myself am not into. I have no idea about your common hobbies or anything. I've only had relationships with people that I like spending time with and they like spending time with me, and I don't mean stuffy dates/sex, but just having fun together. Some of my best times with guys have been when we go to a exhibit that we BOTH really wanted to see, or playing video games, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Do you ever think that maybe you could maybe find a good relationship (monogamous or not, don't really care) with a woman and feel better if you found one that you actually enjoyed spending time with? I mean, really enjoyed spending time with, not finding her boring, or tiresome, etc? I know you have posted about not enjoying the company of women. To be completely clear, this isn't about women. I don't enjoy the company of people. If you asked me to list my top ten memories, well, other people wouldn't be in any of them. I've never liked spending time with anyone. But I went through a phase where I was more social...not because I wanted to be, but because of this sex-obsessed biology I'm trapped in. Thankfully, I think it's finally wearing off, so maybe my life can go back to normal. (I probably sound completely crazy. Ahh well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick974 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Maybe change your meme avatar from Philosoraptor to Forever Alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Understood. No, I don't think it's crazy. I wouldn't consider you completely asocial though as you are on this forum. And that within itself is a social activity. I've never met someone who is truly asocial but many have different ways to socialize and some do it only through online and the like. It's just a preference, whatever works for you and as long as you are happy with how you are now, then there's no reason to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Understood. No, I don't think it's crazy. I wouldn't consider you completely asocial though as you are on this forum. And that within itself is a social activity. I guess. This isn't exactly related, but, as long as we're talking about me being on the forum: my posting here is pretty much the first time that I've experienced conflict. I've apparently led a pretty sheltered existence, and I'm a generally passive, conflict-avoiding person. (My relationships ended in whimpers, as opposed to bangs, and wow that sounds like a bad sex joke, but I didn't mean it that way. My girlfriends just abandoned me, as opposed to screaming at me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbirch Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I guess. This isn't exactly related, but, as long as we're talking about me being on the forum: my posting here is pretty much the first time that I've experienced conflict. I've apparently led a pretty sheltered existence, and I'm a generally passive, conflict-avoiding person. (My relationships ended in whimpers, as opposed to bangs, and wow that sounds like a bad sex joke, but I didn't mean it that way. My girlfriends just abandoned me, as opposed to screaming at me.) I'm confused. Were any of them girlfriends or just FWB. If they were the latter, they were probably just moving on which is how usually FWB usually goes - one person meets someone they want to be in a relationship with or they get bored with the sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm confused. Were any of them girlfriends or just FWB. If they were the latter, they were probably just moving on which is how usually FWB usually goes - one person meets someone they want to be in a relationship with or they get bored with the sex. They were girlfriends. But they got frustrated with my inability to commit long-term, so they left. I don't know, maybe they expected me to chase them and try to get them back or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbirch Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 But I didn't think you wanted girlfriends? So that is goo they moved on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 But I didn't think you wanted girlfriends? So that is goo they moved on?? I wanted one back then! That was before I gave up on monogamy. I tried to get into relationships from the time that I was a teenager until the time that I was 27 or so. But, after my first girlfriend, I mainly did FWB, because I couldn't find a new girlfriend. Then I found my second one, and that didn't work out, so I gave up on the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbirch Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sounds like you have some unfinished business within yourself with regard to the first or second girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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