Blue Spiral Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 If you want something, then you have to work to get it. Women, a job, whatever. You can't expect to get a "hot" (or even an ugly woman, and put in little to no effort. That, obviously, is complete and utter bull. Virtually any woman can walk into any bar in the world and get casual sex (which is all I'm looking for). I'm not going to be lectured by someone that has no concept of the burden of pursuit (i.e., being stuck making the first move). Please, by all means, tell me how many hundreds of men have rejected/ignored your attempts at making the first move. How many times have you put yourself out there to be rejected? I'm talking about actually making the first move, not doing so-called "work" once you've already gotten the relationship. I'm guessing that you haven't dealt with one-twentieth of the rejection that an average guy has. So, please, don't talk to me about "effort". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 You want sex on a stick, but only from hot women, not average women, and you don't want to be their boyfriend, date them, or pay a prostitute. What else do you want me to say? A high school drop out isn't going to find a job making $250,000 per year. I'm not going to give someone a lot of sympathy when they want something but aren't willing to do anything for it. If you want a hot woman, you're going to have to make some effort in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 BS, it is true that there is a double standard, absolutely. I'm not going to tell you that there's not. It's easy for a woman to get casual sex. I'd even argue that it's easier for a woman to find someone to date, provided that they aren't extraordinarily picky. However, for men seeking casual sex, it's a lot harder and unlike women, you can't just stroll into a bar and get some (at least from a very attractive woman). I'm not justifying it or saying that it should be this way, just stating it like it is. Women in general are much less likely to choose casual sex than men, so there are fewer out there looking for it. Particularly very good looking women, who will know their worth and they aren't just going to sleep around with just anyone. They know that their looks = value and they can use that to get things that they want. Why sleep with guy casually when he can't give you money/status/cars/etc. when you can sleep with guys who can give you all of that plus more? See what I mean? It sucks and it's not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I think that's a good thing that not too many women are looking for casual sex. As for the double standard. I say men are to blame for only valuing looks and lowering their standards just to bonk any women they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't blame anyone at all - if you want a high status anything, you're going to have to work for it. You don't get filet mignon at Taco Bell prices. The hot woman has plenty of options, why would she have casual sex if the man is offering nothing, not even his companionship? Even a super high status male isn't going to use an average woman for casual sex because he has plenty of better options himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't blame anyone at all - if you want a high status anything, you're going to have to work for it. You don't get filet mignon at Taco Bell prices. The hot woman has plenty of options, why would she have casual sex if the man is offering nothing, not even his companionship? Even a super high status male isn't going to use an average woman for casual sex because he has plenty of better options himself. I disagree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The brad Pitts and Orlando Blooms of this world have more than enough options. I'm sure they can find supermodels who would have casual sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 In any case, to me it's just crazy to have something you value highly but are unwilling to work towards it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 No, I'm talking about the more practical world, not what some celebrity does. Everyday a girl makes a FWB thread and everybody tells her to move on cause they aren't an item. It's not just really high status guys using average gals, average guys do it to unattractive girls. It just depends on what's going on with the guy. Is he dating the girl he wants, did he just go through a breakup, Is he waiting around for the girl of his dreams or is he gonna go out and enjoy himself a little bit? I'll just tell you, as a fairly attractive guy, it's really easy for me to get sex with women I don't find attractive. Now getting the girl I want, is a little harder, cause both men and women want the best person they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 That, obviously, is complete and utter bull. Virtually any woman can walk into any bar in the world and get casual sex (which is all I'm looking for). I'm not going to be lectured by someone that has no concept of the burden of pursuit (i.e., being stuck making the first move). Please, by all means, tell me how many hundreds of men have rejected/ignored your attempts at making the first move. How many times have you put yourself out there to be rejected? I'm talking about actually making the first move, not doing so-called "work" once you've already gotten the relationship. I'm guessing that you haven't dealt with one-twentieth of the rejection that an average guy has. So, please, don't talk to me about "effort". If you looks for signs of interest, you can save yourself a lot of rejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If you looks for signs of interest, you can save yourself a lot of rejection. Right, so how long do you go with no observable signs of interest before you just give up and assume that you're too ugly for all of 'em? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 That, obviously, is complete and utter bull. Virtually any woman can walk into any bar in the world and get casual sex (which is all I'm looking for). I'm not going to be lectured by someone that has no concept of the burden of pursuit (i.e., being stuck making the first move). Please, by all means, tell me how many hundreds of men have rejected/ignored your attempts at making the first move. How many times have you put yourself out there to be rejected? I'm talking about actually making the first move, not doing so-called "work" once you've already gotten the relationship. I'm guessing that you haven't dealt with one-twentieth of the rejection that an average guy has. So, please, don't talk to me about "effort". Most guys get rejected by taking a risk and asking a girl out. I've had it go incredibly poorly. You'd think a girl could just take your number and throw it in the trash if she's not interested, but some of 'em have to make big shows out of what a creep you are for having the audacity to ask her out and at the same time not meet her attractiveness criteria. For women rejection is more passive. They put themselves around the guy and then one day find out he's dating sally the super sloot and it hurts them, because it feels like rejection, but I don't think it's close enough to the same thing for them to for the most part empathize with men that have, for lack of a better term, no game. Women also build confidence passively, for example by putting on a new dress and noticing people looking and feeling validated. They have no idea that men have to build confidence through very very occasional success in the midst of seemingly endless rejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Right, so how long do you go with no observable signs of interest before you just give up and assume that you're too ugly for all of 'em? Nobody is too ugly for em all. Do you really not get any attention from women, not even unattractive ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Nobody is too ugly for em all. Do you really not get any attention from women, not even unattractive ones? I went to dinner with my ex's "friend" once not too long after we got together. One look at me and the girl decided "I wasn't good enough" for my ex. She texted my ex immediately after dinner telling her how "she could do so much better" blah blah...she didn't even know me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 You want sex on a stick, but only from hot women, not average women, I consider myself to be above-average in terms of looks (minus the whole height thing), and I'd be thrilled with a woman on my own level. Say a 7 or a 7.5. It sucks and it's not fair. Thank you, it's really nice to hear a woman say that. I think that's a good thing that not too many women are looking for casual sex. I hereby accuse you of gender-treason, sir. Do not pass go, and do not collect $200. As for the double standard. I say men are to blame for only valuing looks and lowering their standards just to bonk any women they can. Shouldn't we be open about what we're attracted to? If I acted like I valued...whatever exists other than looks (not entirely sure there), it'd be pretty dishonest. I can't force myself to be attracted to the things that women think men should be attracted to. The brad Pitts and Orlando Blooms of this world have more than enough options. I'm sure they can find supermodels who would have casual sex. I don't know, Tiger Woods' mistresses won't be winning any Miss America pageants. In any case, to me it's just crazy to have something you value highly but are unwilling to work towards it. It's not entirely that. I'm also extremely uncomfortable with the gender role that men have, where we have to initiate and stuff. Me trying to do that...it's like putting a cat in a bathtub. It's not my natural element! If you looks for signs of interest, you can save yourself a lot of rejection. I lack the social skills to read those signs, sadly, and I also seem to lack the ability to develop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Most guys get rejected by taking a risk and asking a girl out. I've never asked a woman out, and never plan to. The whole thing just sounds horrifying...and I don't want to go "out" with them, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I went to dinner with my ex's "friend" once not too long after we got together. One look at me and the girl decided "I wasn't good enough" for my ex. She texted my ex immediately after dinner telling her how "she could do so much better" blah blah...she didn't even know me. So F her friend. What the hell do you care. The other chick was your girl, right? So if you're too ugly for em all, then how'd you get her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 So F her friend. What the hell do you care. The other chick was your girl, right? So if you're too ugly for em all, then how'd you get her? Her friend spent most of that dinner telling me about how she was sexually assaulted as a child. Pretty weird for a first meeting, so I don't take her opinion to mean much. But....the ex did say in a post breakup conversation out of nowhere she goes "and it's not even the physical thing". I don't think we had any problems around it when we were together, but I think on some level it bothered her what other people might think about her because of my appearance and her being with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 That, obviously, is complete and utter bull. Virtually any woman can walk into any bar in the world and get casual sex (which is all I'm looking for). I'm not going to be lectured by someone that has no concept of the burden of pursuit (i.e., being stuck making the first move). Please, by all means, tell me how many hundreds of men have rejected/ignored your attempts at making the first move. How many times have you put yourself out there to be rejected? I'm talking about actually making the first move, not doing so-called "work" once you've already gotten the relationship. I'm guessing that you haven't dealt with one-twentieth of the rejection that an average guy has. So, please, don't talk to me about "effort". I approached many many men in my 24 years of dating. And asked several out on dates. I was rejected plenty. That's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Her friend spent most of that dinner telling me about how she was sexually assaulted as a child. Pretty weird for a first meeting, so I don't take her opinion to mean much. But....the ex did say in a post breakup conversation out of nowhere she goes "and it's not even the physical thing". I don't think we had any problems around it when we were together, but I think on some level it bothered her what other people might think about her because of my appearance and her being with me. What do you look like, are you quasimodo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 What do you look like, are you quasimodo? Nah, pretty average I guess. Few extra pounds. But by and large I'm just missing whatever it is women are initially attracted to. Back to signs of interest, I think the biggest is when they go out of their way to be near or around you. That doesn't happen....unless I want to assume girls at work are walking passed my desk because of me and not because it's the most expedient way to their car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I approached many many men in my 24 years of dating. And asked several out on dates. I was rejected plenty. That's life. I don't think that's typical of most woman, but I applaud you for being that courageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't think that's typical of most woman, but I applaud you for being that courageous. For me it took a bit of courage but I didn't find it that difficult. I would have asked out more men but when I was dating I found that too many men were turned off by being asked out (not just toward me, in general) - approaching men, starting a conversation, flirting, asking men out after you'd been dating awhile - fine -but for women like me who wanted something more long term, letting the man do more of the asking out in the beginning seemed to be the way to go. I had guy friends tell me the exact same thing -being flattered by being asked out, being into the woman maybe for the short term but ultimately having it kind of knock the wind out of their sails so to peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus83 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Nah, pretty average I guess. Few extra pounds. But by and large I'm just missing whatever it is women are initially attracted to. Back to signs of interest, I think the biggest is when they go out of their way to be near or around you. That doesn't happen....unless I want to assume girls at work are walking passed my desk because of me and not because it's the most expedient way to their car. Can you improve yourself at all? Lose weight, gain muscle, maybe a little extra muscle, clothes, a haircut that goes with your face, maybe some facial hair? Oh and you know all this talk about confidence? You need to walk around with your head up, shoulders back and a little arrogance wouldn't kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 For me it took a bit of courage but I didn't find it that difficult. I would have asked out more men but when I was dating I found that too many men were turned off by being asked out (not just toward me, in general) - approaching men, starting a conversation, flirting, asking men out after you'd been dating awhile - fine -but for women like me who wanted something more long term, letting the man do more of the asking out in the beginning seemed to be the way to go. I had guy friends tell me the exact same thing -being flattered by being asked out, being into the woman maybe for the short term but ultimately having it kind of knock the wind out of their sails so to peak. That's really weird to me. I wouldn't think I'd have any problem at all with a girl making the first move. It'd be a damn sight better than trying to read the more subtle signs that are supposed to let you know it's okay to express interest. I'm sure I've maybe just picked some of the wrong ones, but my experience has been that if the woman you approach thinks you're beneath her from a quick physical assessment, then she won't just politely refuse, but she'll make a big stink. I call it "creep shaming" and definitely increases approach anxiety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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