annie24 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I had a conversation about this not too long ago with my friend Carol. She doesn't understand why Bill doesn't want to be her boyfriend when they have so much fun when they are together. I told her because he doesn't want to be obligated to you. She didn't get it, and I was trying to explain that being in a relationship means he can't date other women, he has to spend weekends with you (and not just when he feels like seeing you), he has to take care of you when you are sick, and he has to listen to you and try to cheer you up when you are having a crappy day..... and he doesn't feel like taking on all of these responsibilities. He just likes fun dates when he is in the mood, and then space when he is not. I don't know how polyamory works really - i mean, you'd still have to drive someone to the doctor and you'd still have to listen to your part-time-partner complain about things.... Maybe you can find one where you'd be on the "periphery" and not the main partner, lol? i suggest Craigslist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 From what you've written OP you don't like people much in general and I would think in a poly relationship it's also about wanting to be social and close to a whole group of people and at least interacting in a fun/positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Poly could work for you because you can be "part time" boyfriend to several women at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I had a conversation about this not too long ago with my friend Carol. She doesn't understand why Bill doesn't want to be her boyfriend when they have so much fun when they are together. I told her because he doesn't want to be obligated to you. She didn't get it, and I was trying to explain that being in a relationship means he can't date other women, he has to spend weekends with you (and not just when he feels like seeing you), he has to take care of you when you are sick, and he has to listen to you and try to cheer you up when you are having a crappy day..... and he doesn't feel like taking on all of these responsibilities. He just likes fun dates when he is in the mood, and then space when he is not. That's part of it for me, as well. It's also why I've never had pets or friends or anything like that. Being obligated to someone just drives me up the wall. As you may have noticed, I'm sort of emotionally scattershot...I can go from "wanting to be around people" to "not wanting to be around people" in about five seconds flat. That's why I like the internet so much. If I want to talk to someone, I go online. If I don't, I stay offline. Whereas if someone texts me or calls me when I'm occupied with something else...it disproportionately bothers me. ANNIE prefers to text rather than IM, and I don't say nearly as much as I would online--I'm doing other stuff, and would rather not be interrupted. I don't know how polyamory works really - i mean, you'd still have to drive someone to the doctor and you'd still have to listen to your part-time-partner complain about things.... Maybe you can find one where you'd be on the "periphery" and not the main partner, lol? i suggest Craigslist. Ahh, their other boyfriends can do that stuff. From what you've written OP you don't like people much in general and I would think in a poly relationship it's also about wanting to be social and close to a whole group of people and at least interacting in a fun/positive way. I like people just fine when I'm sleeping with them! I'm obviously not social, but, I've had multiple FWBs at the same time, and it went smoothly. I don't want to be Boyfriend #1 for these women, I'm happy being Boyfriend #3 or #4, who's mainly just used for sex. Poly could work for you because you can be "part time" boyfriend to several women at once. Indeed...but I fear that it won't ever happen. My best-case scenario is probably multiple FWBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't know much about how the poly relationships work but I don't think they're focused on sex to the extent you describe - you're simply talking about having multiple sex partners (not friends who are partners because you don't want the obligations that a friendship or romantic relationship have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't know much about how the poly relationships work but I don't think they're focused on sex to the extent you describe - There are many different versions of monogamy--why not many different versions of poly? If it doesn't exist yet, I'll invent it. That's one of the human race's specialties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 It honestly sounds like you just want to have sex with multiple women on tap. But with no responsibilities. Like a harem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 It honestly sounds like you just want to have sex with multiple women on tap. But with no responsibilities. Like a harem. Exactly! But I'm not greedy, I don't need to have them all to myself. I'd rather have other guys be the main boyfriends, anyway. In my hypothetical poly scenario, that could be a type of relationship, couldn't it? If not...well, at least I quickly figured out the specifics of what I want. Some men think they want a relationship, lead a woman on, and waste her time for years, only to eventually decide they don't want one after all. Whereas I went through my "Maybe I want a relationship?" phase in about a day and a half. Go me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 There are many different versions of monogamy--why not many different versions of poly? If it doesn't exist yet, I'll invent it. That's one of the human race's specialties. I understand and agree but I'm talking about down to basic. Of course you can label whatever you want but I don't think what you are describing (see Itsallgrand post) has to do with a poly "relationship" - many people have sex with multiple partners and I'm sure some of those sex partners also have boyfriends/husbands/dates/other sex partners. You're not in a relationship with a group of people in that scenario so no, as a basic matter I wouldn't call it a polygamous relationship just like I wouldn't call it monogamous if one or both of the people involved were having sex outside of the relationship -there are certain basics that have to be there to form a certain type of relationship. For example, would you say that a random woman and a random child who meet randomly outside one day and say hello are then in a family relationship? Sure-if the woman and child decide to then say "we're now a family!" more power to them but at some point there has to be some basics, despite being flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I do give you credit for knowing what you want and being honest about it, both to yourself and others. I can't stand people who say they want one thing (monogamy or otherwise) but don't actually. So really, that's awesome. Looks like serial FWBs may work best, given your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I do give you credit for knowing what you want and being honest about it, both to yourself and others. I can't stand people who say they want one thing (monogamy or otherwise) but don't actually. So really, that's awesome. Looks like serial FWBs may work best, given your situation. I agree. I don't think FWB will work for him because he doesn't want true friendships and he said he wants a choice of multiple sex partners so I'm not sure the serial part makes sense. Many people I am sure pursue sex with multiple people and there are people into that sort of thing and willing to take all the risks that go with it because it's fun/enjoyable for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I didn't think FWB were all necessarily true friendships, just a saying people use in referring to "someone who I have sex with sometimes". Sometimes you're friends, sometimes you're not and you just call them over when you want action. Certainly a bit less risky than meeting up with random people on CL or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I use the term "FWB" because I'm way too white to say "booty call", and also because I am friendly with them. I don't just contact them when I want sex. For the record, I've literally never contacted a woman after midnight and asked her to come over...why would anyone wait until it was that late?? I assume they're doing it because other options fell through. I'd contact my FWBs in the morning or early afternoon, have conversations with them throughout the day, and set something up for the evening. Now, when my best friend and I talk about this stuff, we use the term "harem", but that could easily be misunderstood, so...! I don't know, do guys sit around worrying about labels? You can call it whatever you want--as long as I'm getting what I want out of it, I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I didn't think FWB were all necessarily true friendships, just a saying people use in referring to "someone who I have sex with sometimes". Sometimes you're friends, sometimes you're not and you just call them over when you want action. Certainly a bit less risky than meeting up with random people on CL or something. Right -I think people use it as a euphemism for sex partners who they may or may not know other than having sex. I'm not a fan of referring to those encounters as FWB because I think people who are comfortable having casual sex should be comfortable calling it what it is without resorting to euphemisms. I think there are people who are close or at least good friends and then decide to have sex when they're in the mood -they didn't meet first for sexual purposes. Not sure why they need the "benefits" euphemism either but at least the friendship part is accurate. I agree with you Bluespiral about labels - but you were harping on calling what you were looking for under the "poly" label. You want to have casual sex with certain women you know in real life. No big deal as long as you're both single consenting adults and know of any health risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 It sounds like in BS's case, "FWB" is a good term for what he's looking for as he is friendly with them and talks to them. I can't say "booty call" either. Sounds weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I agree with you Bluespiral about labels - but you were harping on calling what you were looking for under the "poly" label. I'm just thinking that some women might consider what I'm describing to be a form of a poly relationship. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. It sounds like in BS's case, "FWB" is a good term for what he's looking for as he is friendly with them and talks to them. I can't say "booty call" either. Sounds weird. In addition to it sounding weird, I usually text or IM, rather than call, and I'm not much of a booty guy. So it's just not a good term for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm not a fan of the term FWB on a good day. I don't think it applies here. That's just me. I'd call it wanting casual sex with a lot of different women who you find sexually attractive, and you would prefer if these women are understanding that it's only about the sex for you. Even better if they are meeting their needs in other relationships, from your perspective, because then there is less chance they will ask those things/want them from you. So I guess I can maybe see you being happy being involved with women who are in poly relationships themselves; and you are on the outskirts of that as one of many sex partners for them. But with zero relationship responsibilities as a partner. And that might be better for you than seeking divorced/confused/single women who are ultimately seeking a mono relationship but for the time ok with having some casual sex. Simply because those women in poly relationships are as clear as you that they want nothing to do with a mono relationship. And there is also no undertone of money being something the woman is seeking (which to be blunt, prostitutes of one sort or another are big players in the market of men looking for sex with zero responsibilities and wanting multiple sexual partners.) But I don't see that as you being in a poly relationship. Just maybe you could use others poly tendencies to your advantage in order to not have to lie nor pay money and still have many women to choose from (which I know you are adverse to doing, and thank god for that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't have anything to say about labels, but: Just maybe you could use others poly tendencies to your advantage in order to not have to lie nor pay money and still have many women to choose from (which I know you are adverse to doing, and thank god for that). That definitely makes me an outlier among my gender, yeah. My life would be a lot, lot easier if I just paid for dates, acted like I wanted a relationship, and let them dump me before they got attached. (And they would dump me fairly quickly, I assure you--I'm not a good long-term candidate. The lie would be harmless, but I still don't want to lie.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I didn't mean using dates to find prostitutes! I meant straight up prostitute arrangements: hookers, you pay to support me and I give you sex arrangements, paying for cam girls and strippers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I didn't mean using dates to find prostitutes! I...I didn't either. My personal communication skills must not be very good. I was talking about dating a woman in the regular way, acting like I wanted a relationship, sleeping with her, and letting her eventually realize that I wouldn't be much of a boyfriend/husband, which would cause her to dump me. I'd technically be leading her on, but it wouldn't last long...and, on the surface, it would be indistinguishable from a normal short-lived relationship. This is somewhat similar to what I did between my first and second girlfriends, only I really did want a relationship, back then. I meant straight up prostitute arrangements: hookers, you pay to support me and I give you sex arrangements, paying for cam girls and strippers! The first one...it's not that I'm against it, it's that it's illegal. The third one is just icky, based on what I've heard about strippers. The second one is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 What you are describing as 'dating in a regular way', I see as approaching women as though they are basically all prostitutes. The man pays for the dates, he pretends, and it's basically about exchanging for sex. It's not what I think of when I think of as actual dating. Um yeah, I'm repelled by prostitution of all forms. I won't go into that, because there's no reason for me to believe you'd be interested to hear it. But I do think that orientation of thinking prostitution is ok, does tend to go hand in hand with a belief that male and female relationships can basically be reduced down to sex. And it is why there is so much prostitution in the market when a person is seeking purely casual sex. When you say you think the second one is ok "paying to support and I give you sex", that fits right in with what I think of when I think 'harem'. And it's basically prostitution! I just wanted to clarify it because I think there is a difference between that, and casual sex between two people in a totally consenting way that does not have any of those elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 What you are describing as 'dating in a regular way', I see as approaching women as though they are basically all prostitutes. The man pays for the dates, he pretends, and it's basically about exchanging for sex. It's not what I think of when I think of as actual dating. I don't think that all men are pretending. But, regardless of the man's intent, the end-result is usually the same: they're together for a while, they have sex, it ends. In that sense, it doesn't really matter if the man's intent is short-term or long-term. But I still don't do it, because...reasons, or something. When you say you think the second one is ok "paying to support and I give you sex", that fits right in with what I think of when I think 'harem'. And it's basically prostitution! My poor personal communication skills (and poor math skills) have struck again: I was actually referring to the cam girls. I thought they were second, not third. "paying to support and I give you sex"...no, I'm afraid I'm not interested in the historic type of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well, I was tempted to let this journal die, as I don't have much more to say about this stuff. But I will give you an update on ANNIE. I had an extremely fun series of conversations with ANNIE, and it's clear that she wants to have sex with me...but I'm still not interested enough. I have to initiate all the contact, and that bugs me. I get the impression that she expects guys to chase her. She's currently hooking up with another guy. That doesn't bug me, but it does make it clear that she can take sex for granted, which explains why she doesn't bother contacting me. I always thought that I was sex-obsessed, but, I'd rather act in a dignified manner than get sex. Expending a lot of effort to get sex = in my opinion, not dignified. As what many would call a "low-status" male, my sexual prospects aren't great. And, admittedly, I've made it even more of an uphill battle: I don't want to get married or have kids, I have zero interest in dating or being monogamous at all, etc. That basically scares off 95% of women. Now, some women do want casual stuff, thank god. But If I have to work to get a woman I'm only sort of interested in...yeah, I don't think so. I just don't see the point in trying, anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Earlier today, I saw the sort of woman that I'll never have a chance with, and it basically crushed me on an emotional level. I've dealt with depression for most of my life, so I'm used to that, but this is something different. I feel like super-heavy gravity is weighing me down. My life was never focused primarily on sex (or other people at all), but the complete lack of it may be starting to get to me. I don't know how I'm going to survive the next forty or fifty years. I feel extremely positive about other areas of my life, but this is dragging me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If you want something, then you have to work to get it. Women, a job, whatever. You can't expect to get a "hot" (or even an ugly woman, and put in little to no effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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