Blue Spiral's Adventures in Solitude

[Batya33]

It doesn't sound like you're "talking to people" in any conversational way -sounds more like you are talking to these women because of what you think you remember about their physical measurements and because you might want to have sex with one or both of them. That's fine, but it's not about being social or conversing on your end so that might be part of the frustration. You want to find out ASAP whether this person is going to meet up with you, and set a time/place to do that and dispense with conversation. That works with escorts/prostitutes/maybe very drunk women but otherwise yes you need to do the conversational stuff. So just decide whether that type of effort is worth your goal. If it is then that might change your perspective on whether it is worth the work to get the sex (or the potential sex).

[Blue Spiral]

Ehh, I haven't had a non-sexually-charged conversation with a woman (outside of obvious family/work stuff) since my second girlfriend left me, which was almost ten years ago. Just don't have any interest. After all those years in the friendzone, I've developed an allergy to anything even remotely platonic.

 

p.s.: I've never slept with, or even knowingly talked to, an escort, prostitute, or very drunk woman.

[Blue Spiral]

Actually, now that I think about it...outside of the previously-mentioned family/work exceptions, I don't know if I've ever had a non-sexually-charged conversation with a woman in my entire life. I mean, when I was in school, I talked to girls about some school stuff, but that's about it. I'm either talking about sexual stuff, or talking to women that I had sex with or want to have sex with. I'm a pretty one-track-minded person. No male friendships, either, except for one friend that I last saw over ten years ago.

 

Is sex the only thing that human beings are good for? That's my question to ponder for the day.

[Patrick974]

Is sex the only thing that human beings are good for? That's my question to ponder for the day.

 

Without sex there would be no humanity so you might have a point.

[Blue Spiral]

Without sex there would be no humanity so you might have a point.

 

Would that necessarily be a bad thing, though?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the stuff we've produced--M&Ms, the Enlightenment, bikinis, stuff like that--but we aren't the be-all end-all of the universe, either. I don't think it'd miss us much if we were gone.

[annie24]

Actually, now that I think about it...outside of the previously-mentioned family/work exceptions, I don't know if I've ever had a non-sexually-charged conversation with a woman in my entire life. I mean, when I was in school, I talked to girls about some school stuff, but that's about it. I'm either talking about sexual stuff, or talking to women that I had sex with or want to have sex with. I'm a pretty one-track-minded person. No male friendships, either, except for one friend that I last saw over ten years ago.

 

Your comments really bother me, especially in light of what's in the news today:

 

Tim Hunt, an English biochemist who admitted that he has a reputation for being a “chauvinist”, said to the World Conference of Science Journalists in Seoul, South Korea: “Let me tell you about my trouble with girls … three things happen when they are in the lab … You fall in love with them, they fall in love with you and when you criticise them, they cry.”

 

It really is stupid that there are men out there who can't appreciate/talk to/work with women outside of the context of a sexual relationship. Somehow Tim Hunt thought that a conference of female science journalists was a great place to make these comments! It seems to be more that he has some issues with focusing in lab, not the women.

 

BS - Why don't you try to make some friends - men and women!

[annie24]

Without sex there would be no humanity so you might have a point.

 

I think you mean Reproduction? Sex without reproducing doesn't lead to more humans.

[Blue Spiral]

It really is stupid that there are men out there who can't appreciate/talk to/work with women outside of the context of a sexual relationship.

 

Why?

 

Please note--my species-wide nihilism notwithstanding, I do think that individual human beings have worth. But "this person has intrinsic value" doesn't necessarily translate to "I see a point in talking to/being around this person."

 

BS - Why don't you try to make some friends - men and women!

 

I've never really understood the whole "friends" concept. I don't get the appeal of non-sexual interaction.

[Fudgie]

Blue Spiral,

 

You strike me as someone who would be able to interact with a woman appropriately and fairly in a workplace setting or public setting, but you just wouldn't be a friend. And you know, that's fine. As long as you're respectful and you are able to be functional and get your work done, that's key. I'd argue that's way better than the guy who keeps distracted by women in the lab and falling for them. It's better to see them as colleagues and that's it. Am I right in my characterization of you?

 

Bottom line, whatever makes you happy. No one is owed anything from you other than basic human respect and you ought to get the same. I struggled in my younger years when I was bullied a lot by several girls and I developed the phrase "Respect is the law, friendliness is optional". My father praised me for it, my mother worried about it. It grounded me and I still live by it to this day. I believe in treating everyone with a basic level of respect and dignity that everyone ought to treat each other, even when people are arseholes and are unpleasant. My presence is actually very unnerving to some patients because of this. However, no one is promised friendship or intimacy. No one is obligated to give it.

 

It's liberating, isn't it. So simple.

[Blue Spiral]

Fudgie: your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[LikeWater]

I've never really understood the whole "friends" concept. I don't get the appeal of non-sexual interaction.

 

You really don't see the appeal of sharing a non-sexual experience with someone and the experience being way more enjoyable because of it? A very simple example is that there are a lot of video games that are way more enjoyable with a good friend or two. Surely that's an understandable concept.

[itsallgrand]

You really don't see the appeal of sharing a non-sexual experience with someone and the experience being way more enjoyable because of it? A very simple example is that there are a lot of video games that are way more enjoyable with a good friend or two. Surely that's an understandable concept.

 

Or someone who you can speak to in Simpsons quotes and they know what you mean. lol. Not as much fun just saying them to yourself !

 

Reminded me of some of the gibberish conversations between a friend and I that is almost nearly all quotes and impersonations of impersonations. His impersonation of Eddie Murphy impersonating a white guy impersonating a black guy cracks me up every time.

[Blue Spiral]

You really don't see the appeal of sharing a non-sexual experience with someone and the experience being way more enjoyable because of it? A very simple example is that there are a lot of video games that are way more enjoyable with a good friend or two. Surely that's an understandable concept.

 

I prefer single-player games. I haven't played a video game with another person in probably fifteen years.

[happy_snapper]

Well if that does it for you, then who are we to argue.

 

Personally it sounds very... empty.

[Jean-Luc]

I think playing with friends who you can joke around with and have fun with is the way to go sometimes. Releases stress and anxiety and can help you cope with whatever you may be going through(at least from my perspective). Stay away from multiplayer games that involve playing with total strangers though. A lot of insufferable a$$hats out there.

 

Then again I find the most pleasure the majority of the time from playing single player games alone and sinking myself into the world and the story. That sometimes does the same as the aforementioned point of playing with friends.

[Blue Spiral]

Or someone who you can speak to in Simpsons quotes and they know what you mean. lol. Not as much fun just saying them to yourself !

 

I do that with my one male friend (the one I haven't seen in about ten years, but I talk to him online quite a bit). In addition to pop-culture references, we have in-jokes that have been becoming increasingly complicated since we were teenagers, and they're probably impenetrable to outsiders.

 

Well if that does it for you, then who are we to argue.

 

Personally it sounds very... empty.

 

I'm just not interested in people--and, on top of that, I have severe social anxiety, so that makes people-related stuff even less enjoyable.

 

I think playing with friends who you can joke around with and have fun with is the way to go sometimes. Releases stress and anxiety and can help you cope with whatever you may be going through(at least from my perspective). Stay away from multiplayer games that involve playing with total strangers though. A lot of insufferable a$$hats out there.

 

Then again I find the most pleasure the majority of the time from playing single player games alone and sinking myself into the world and the story. That sometimes does the same as the aforementioned point of playing with friends.

 

I'm aging myself, here, but...to me, video games are about playing by yourself. When I was in junior high and high school, I'd come straight home and play SNES games as a form of escape/relaxation. I know that the modern young'uns use games in a social way (and apparently even for parties??), but I can't wrap my mind around that. I've literally never played any of those networked games. My summer tradition: working my way through the classic Mario games!

 

In other news, BETTY messaged me, last night. The good news: she actually said stuff other than "yes" and "lol". The bad news: it was all platonic. She said that I should come visit her...but that I should sleep on the couch. I'm not exactly sure what's up with that.

[LikeWater]

Hey man, I grew up with the NES and SNES as well. I love a good single-player game that just envelops you in the world. But what I was talking about had nothing to do with huge, online multiplayer games where you're matched up with all kinds of internet d-bags. I'm just talking about playing a game with one or two GOOD friends, especially if the game lends itself to that really well.

 

That was just one example, though. There are a lot of experiences heightened by the presence of someone you know really well. Even something as simple as a long car ride is much more enjoyable if you have someone to chit-chat with the whole way through. I'm just saying that even if you're not a social person, this concept shouldn't be hard to grasp, right?

 

It just seems to me that you've given up on some things a little too easily. Out of all that I know about you, I just want to encourage you to not add the possibility of friendship to that list. I'm not a social butterfly either, but I've had really close friends that enhanced years of my life. And loneliness is not a burden anyone should bear.

[Blue Spiral]

Hey man, I grew up with the NES and SNES as well. I love a good single-player game that just envelops you in the world. But what I was talking about had nothing to do with huge, online multiplayer games where you're matched up with all kinds of internet d-bags. I'm just talking about playing a game with one or two GOOD friends, especially if the game lends itself to that really well.

 

I have one friend, and I haven't seen him in about ten years. I don't think we ever played video games together, but I could be wrong.

 

That was just one example, though. There are a lot of experiences heightened by the presence of someone you know really well. Even something as simple as a long car ride is much more enjoyable if you have someone to chit-chat with the whole way through. I'm just saying that even if you're not a social person, this concept shouldn't be hard to grasp, right?

 

I actually don't like having to talk in the car...or anywhere, really. I find it to be exhausting. Long stretches of silence = fine by me. Now, I was originally going to say that sex is the only experience I enjoy with another person--but, I have to admit, that isn't quite true. There have been some other things that I've enjoyed doing with people. But the number (of both things and people) is vanishingly small, so it's sort of irrelevant. I like talking about football with my friend, and I liked talking about stuff with my first girlfriend (one of the rare situations when I've been attracted to a personality as well as a body), but that's about it.

 

It just seems to me that you've given up on some things a little too easily. Out of all that I know about you, I just want to encourage you to not add the possibility of friendship to that list. I'm not a social butterfly either, but I've had really close friends that enhanced years of my life. And loneliness is not a burden anyone should bear.

 

I'm only lonely in terms of wanting sex, so I don't know if it really counts. You're absolutely right, though, I gave up very easily--in fact, I didn't really try at all. I always wondered why I struggled so much with women (and people in general), and it was my second girlfriend that helped me to see the truth. She said that I'm perfectly happy being alone, which results in me not trying very hard with people.

[Blue Spiral]

Another ENA thread--the one about European guys being hesitant to commit--got me thinking about one of the more amusing types of conversations that I've had.

 

There have been many times when a FWB (or a woman I was trying to get to be a FWB) has asked me why I don't want a relationship. I usually don't mind explaining myself...but, if I get tired of having to state it over and over, I'll turn the tables. I'll grin slyly and say something like, "Well, you tell me: why should I be in a relationship? What's in it for me?" The reaction, invariably, is somewhere between blinking confusion and deer-in-the-headlights panic. Some responses I've gotten over the years:

 

"Uh, well, you know, um..."

 

"Everybody does it. You don't want to be weird, do you?"

 

"Someone to spend time with, I guess?"

 

(after much beating around the bush) "Sex." (this woman at least knew what was going on)

 

I'd keep pushing for them to tell me about tangible, provable benefits--nothing "feelings"-related--and the vast majority of them never managed to come up with anything (save sex). The first few times this happened, I was stunned. I'd been looking at it from a man's perspective: as men, we have to "sell ourselves" to women, in a sense. We have to convince women that we're good, and that a relationship with us would be good. I assumed that these women would be ready to argue for themselves (and for the concept of relationships), but the average woman doesn't need to do get her hands that dirty. She only needs to show up--even extremely-unattractive women don't have to work that hard to get boyfriends. (I've personally witnessed this on many occasions, and it's amazing to watch.)

 

The two genders really do have different experiences. Men are expected to perform; women are expected to...well, I'm not really sure, exactly. Show up, I guess. The man asks the woman out and pays for the date and keeps pursuing and initiating, and the woman...does some vague, invisible social/emotional stuff that's apparently just as important, but can't really be proven to exist. Sort of like the benefits of a relationship.

 

I miss the mystified, "Wait, you actually expect me to do something?" tone in those conversations. BETTY told me that she's looking for a relationship; if she talks with me again, I'll have to ask her a certain question, even if it's just for the entertainment value.

[Batya33]

I wouldn't discount the emotional benefits of relationship which also lead to health benefits of course and for many better self-esteem, performance in careers or at hobbies, sports ,etc- don't underrate the emotions part. I completely disagree with how you describe the differences in how men and women approach relationship. In my experience both men and women who want healthy, loving relationships work hard at finding the right person and then nurturing and developing the relationship. I absolutely didn't just show up and I know few women who have. I don't think anyone should be chasing -if you want to be together then it's not about chasing. Sex -yes, sex in the context of a loving relationship -cannot be equaled IMHO.

 

I also will say that most people who desire a healthy, loving relationship aren't inclined or motivated to make a pros-cons list because it can't really be reduced to that and shouldn't be.

 

I think the "because everyone wants one/does that" is a lame reason to be in a relationship or to choose any particular lifestyle whether relationship related or not.

[Blue Spiral]

So...emotions, again. Sigh.

 

I wouldn't discount the emotional benefits of relationship which also lead to health benefits of course and for many better self-esteem, performance in careers or at hobbies, sports ,etc-

 

I don't have a career, I don't play sports, and I don't think that my singleness is affecting my ability to read books or play video games, but I'll keep you updated.

[Silverbirch]

I don't think a lot if people get that you are different to many others - you just don't seem to have a need to connect with others - that's how it seems to me anyway. Sex for you is purely physical. I don't think this is because you are an only child as I have a son close to your age who also was an only child, and his relationships with and interactions with women are different to yours. I think you should stay single for sure.

[Blue Spiral]

I don't think a lot if people get that you are different to many others - you just don't seem to have a need to connect with others - that's how it seems to me anyway. Sex for you is purely physical. I don't think this is because you are an only child as I have a son close to your age who also was an only child, and his relationships with and interactions with women are different to yours. I think you should stay single for sure.

 

I'm extremely weird, and I happily admit that...but, at the same time, I don't think that "What's in it for me?" is an uncommon question among men. I think that growing numbers of men are starting to give up on the whole relationship concept, or are at least becoming resistant to it and asking more questions about it.

 

It's not like men have always gotten into relationships because of emotional stuff, and I'm the one exception. Really, the whole "marriage = true romantic love" thing is merely a trend from the last few centuries--before that, marriage was more about property and legal sex and basic survival for both genders. Sure, love was always the ideal, but from what I've read, the practical reality was extremely messy and awkward. Even in my grandparents' time...I've heard stories like "Well, he wanted to sleep with her, so they had to get married" and "Well, she was twenty-five and she didn't have a job, so she had to settle for a guy she didn't really like." I'm extremely happy to live in our current era; both men and women have much more freedom.

 

In short, I'm different in many ways...but my extreme focus on sex is one of the things that makes me a normal guy.

[faraday]

I'm extremely weird, and I happily admit that...but, at the same time, I don't think that "What's in it for me?" is an uncommon question among men. I think that growing numbers of men are starting to give up on the whole relationship concept, or are at least becoming resistant to it and asking more questions about it.

 

.

 

My bf would say "sandwiches."

 

Kidding. Kind of. He could date someone with a lot less financial responsibility- he's travelled the world with his last two gfs. But he's choosing to commit to me. I know you say there must be more than emotional stuff...and yes, I make awesome dinners for him...I do a lot of cleaning (but he still contributes quite a bit)...sex. Of course. And massages. He likes that my daughter and I make him part of our family...he's excited to have children with me- he thinks I'm a great mother. I come with housing equity. Tons of beautiful furniture. I can turn anything into a home (instead of a house), and that will come in handy when we buy. I'm great at pairing socks, and telling him not to mix that shirt with that pair of pants. I plan our weekends with friends and family- and he likes that sense of community that I bring to his life.

 

Those are more tangible things. The intangible though...the emotion...is what he really is after. That he has someone who will have his back...that will give words of encouragement in moments of doubt, and praise him when he triumphs. Someone to wake up next to. Or stay up with into the wee hours of morning. Someone to make future dreams with. Someone that makes him feel chosen and desired above all others. Someone who makes him feel like...finally, he's not alone in the universe. Understood. He likes that we compliment each other- his strengths are in spreadsheets and maps and math...and I know nothing of those things- mine are all creative- so together we are so much bigger than we're apart. He likes feeling loved. Respected. Needed.

 

But if you don't crave those things, how can you understand them? I agree with silverbirch- I think you're happiest alone, and should avoid relationships. They don't make sense for you.

 

All I'm saying is...when you're with someone that brings out the good in you, there are many benefits to being with someone- tangible...and intangible. That's why people (men) do it. It's not just that the guy gives everything and a woman stands there collecting. It's an equal partnership. I work hard to make sure he feels like he's getting back what he puts in. That's the way it is in most of the relationships around me- but I do see a few unequal relationships around me- and sometimes it's the man giving more, but often it's the woman. And those relationships are glaringly obvious to those outside them.

[happy_snapper]

If you don't connect with other people emotionally then no, a relationship will never make any sense for you.

 

In mine and my girlfriend's relationship, if you want to look at it purely in a tangible, physical way, I reckon she profits slightly from me. I earn more and I have a car, so I tend to spend more in real terms than she does. On the other hand, if you adjusted it by our earnings, in a relative sense I'd say she spends more on me than I do on her. She buys me gifts, food and sometimes pays for little trips. I reckon she spends a higher percentage of her earnings on me than I do on her.

 

By the way, I'm a man but I don't consider sex to be the number one thing in our relationship. It's up there (oh boy yes, we do love us some sex), but the main thing I get out of it, is that intangible emotional stuff. I'm a very emotionally sensitive person.

You can discount it, because you don't need it, but for me It's the most amazing part of my life right now.

 

Having a special person as part of my life and knowing that I'm an important part of somebody else's life... you can't put a value on that.

That look on her face when she sees me coming to meet her.

The feeling of her hand in mine.

Falling asleep with her in my arms.

Waking up with her next to me.

The mad conversations we have and the way we seem to read each others minds.

The silence when we both know that words just aren't needed.

The feeling of being adored by the most wonderful person you know.

 

If these feelings don't mean anything to you, then yeah it sounds like a stupid waste of time. I wouldn't be able to explain why I want to be in a relationship. The best I could do, is to say that the general feeling of fulfilment I get from having her in my life, is worth a thousand times the time, effort and money I put in to maintaining the relationship. And I'm sure she feels the same.

 

I'd say sex is the 2nd best thing about our relationship. Having a sexual partner I trust and have a strong emotional bond with, who I've had time to find all the little things that turn her on, who knows exactly what I like,... She is amazing in bed as well as being my soulmate.