Blue Spiral's Adventures in Solitude

[NorthDallas40]

Not to get too off-topic, but Spiral I actually sympathize with guys with fragile egos. Believe it or not, I used to be that way myself, and still am at times. I don't believe in a Darwinian approach to life where only the strong prevail while weakest are crushed.

 

That said, it seems like a lot of MRM dudes are simply blaming others (women, money, parents, other races, the world at large, etc.) for their lot in life, and even worse, taking it out on others. And that's what I felt that Lenny guy was doing. If he had simply been a better communicator and a more polite & understanding person, MissMarple would have responded they way he liked. But he handled things like an amateur, and got pissy like a baby when he didn't get his way. That kind of attitude is understandable when you're under 30. After that, no way man.

[Blue Spiral]

I didn't think Lenny had a fragile ego.

 

I don't know if he does or not, I was just replying to ND's comment.

 

That said, it seems like a lot of MRM dudes are simply blaming others (women, money, parents, other races, the world at large, etc.) for their lot in life, and even worse, taking it out on others.

 

I disagree (though not entirely), but that's thankfully off-topic.

 

And that's what I felt that Lenny guy was doing. If he had simply been a better communicator and a more polite & understanding person, MissMarple would have responded they way he liked. But he handled things like an amateur, and got pissy like a baby when he didn't get his way. That kind of attitude is understandable when you're under 30. After that, no way man.

 

The thing is...not all of us have great social skills, and that's something that can't always be improved. I tried to improve mine for twenty years before I finally gave up. Likewise, I'm guessing that most of us have our emotional freakout moments. If this relationship stuff requires people to be constantly good at communicating and constantly mature, no wonder it doesn't usually work.

 

If "lashing out if you don't get your way" equates to being a baby, well, you should probably hand a pacifier to everyone in the human race. And god forbid if a man doesn't react to rejection in a perfectly-controlled way. He said one mean-ish thing in a text?? Oh my, break out the fainting couch. I've received much more vitriol for much smaller offenses. And this gets back to my rant about gender roles: women are allowed to show more emotion than men. In my few relationships (not much of a sample-size, I grant you), I was expected to be on the receiving end of emotional tirades and never complain, but if I dared to get a little upset, the woman in question would act like I'd just set the place on fire.

 

I'm just tired of the whole thing. I'm happy with the non-people parts of my life, but, whenever I think about women, I want to just crawl in bed and never get back out. And, no, I don't mean like that. Eesh.

[Batya33]

I think you're going to extremes on the Lenny situation to prove some point. No one wrote that he or anyone should have perfect social skills or react in a perfectly controlled way. It wasn't about being emotional or showing emotion it was about first being unreliable/thoughtless and then being rude and that has nothing to do with gender.

 

I'm sorry other people have expected you to be perfect /controlled and that you've experienced this as gendered. The women you refer to in your relationships sound like they were not thoughtful or considerate and that for some reason you decided to tolerate being treated that way (hopefully not for long!). I've met both men and women like that.

 

If anything MM took on a traditional male role by suggesting more than once that they meet or progress to meeting -and he hung back.

[Blue Spiral]

I'm sorry other people have expected you to be perfect /controlled and that you've experienced this as gendered. The women you refer to in your relationships sound like they were not thoughtful or considerate and that for some reason you decided to tolerate being treated that way (hopefully not for long!).

 

Wow. "for some reason I decided to tolerate being treated that way"? When you aren't the one that's in-demand, there's a lot that you have to "tolerate", I'm afraid. That said, I've never known any women that didn't love to create completely unnecessary drama, and the cynic in me thinks that this is done to s**t-test men (and probably their family members and female friends, too). I hope they exist, though.

[Batya33]

Wow. "for some reason I decided to tolerate being treated that way"? When you aren't the one that's in-demand, there's a lot that you have to "tolerate", I'm afraid. That said, I've never known any women that didn't love to create completely unnecessary drama, and the cynic in me thinks that this is done to s**t-test men (and probably their family members and female friends, too). I hope they exist, though.

 

No, that's just not true. I'm sorry the individuals you met behaved that way and I'm sorry you chose to tolerate it. I think it's far better to be on your own than to tolerate that type of behavior. And then of course the vicious cycle -people who have negative energy in some way typically are not as much in demand as the opposite.

[Blue Spiral]

No, that's just not true.

 

If you're referring to my statement that I've never known any women that didn't behave that way: I assure you, it's true. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I haven't met any.

 

I'm sorry the individuals you met behaved that way and I'm sorry you chose to tolerate it. I think it's far better to be on your own than to tolerate that type of behavior. And then of course the vicious cycle -people who have negative energy in some way typically are not as much in demand as the opposite.

 

I agree, but I was actually referring to gender, there.

[Batya33]

If you're referring to my statement that I've never known any women that didn't behave that way: I assure you, it's true. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I haven't met any.

 

 

 

I agree, but I was actually referring to gender, there.

 

Yes I know, and I disagree that those personality traits you encountered in those individuals are gender-based.

[Blue Spiral]

Well, I have actual news, but it's not about me. It's time for the ultimate cliche: the "my ex got married" post.

 

You may recall that I had two (maybe two and a half) girlfriends. Unfortunately for me, both of them were traditional to some degree: the first one wanted marriage, and the second one wanted marriage and kids. I, obviously, don't want either. My first girlfriend left me for a guy that she married fairly quickly. My second girlfriend...well, I was much more compatible with her, to be honest with you. She was less traditional than the first one (despite wanting kids). She informally proposed to me on several occasions, but she gave up on me when she realized that I'd never change my mind. She kept checking in with me, over the years, just in case. But she eventually stopped, and I haven't spoken to her in a few years. Well, without going into detail, I'm 99% sure that she recently got married.

 

This is not a "She moved on and I didn't, so I'm all angsty" post, nor is it a "She got married and I didn't, so she's ahead of me, in terms of life-goals" post, since I don't view marriage as any sort of accomplishment. I don't really know anything about this guy, but I hope she's happy. I doubt that I would've been able to pull off long-term monogamy, so our breakup was probably for the best...but I always hoped that I'd magically become capable of it, and/or that she'd stop wanting to be married. Please note, I don't think there's anything wrong with not being monogamous--this isn't "Ohh, I wish I could be a better person", I'm personally fine with not being monogamous--but both women that I loved wanted monogamy and marriage, so that put me in an awkward position.

 

She was literally my only chance at ever having a relationship, again, and that door has now closed. You may think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. I've only managed to connect with two human beings in my entire life, and even then, the relationships didn't last that long. My first girlfriend is no longer a possibility (she's married, plus other reasons), and now my second girlfriend isn't a possibility, either. I suppose that some poly thing is a possibility, but, if I'm too lazy and apathetic to even do FWBs anymore, I doubt that I could muster up the effort for multiple people.

 

In reality, nothing has changed--we broke up seven or eight years ago, and I haven't tried to have any relationships since then, which has to be a sign that I don't really care all that much. Also, I'm sort of an acquired taste; not many women are into the type of guy that I am. Between the scarcity of interested women and my own lack of interest, I suppose that I'm single from here on out. It's not like I'm dying to be in a relationship or something, but it was always nice to have that as a potential fallback option. I'm not sure what my options are, anymore.

[Batya33]

Your options are largely within your control. You choose the mindset and perspective, you choose to act on that mindset/perspective. Part of it is luck and timing, sure, but there is a significant part within your control. It doesn't matter that you "only" connected with two people the last 7 years - you can look at that as "evidence" that you're not relationship material or you can look at it several different ways that result in an attitude of "gonna keep trying". It's up to you.

 

Figure out whether the potential fallback option (i.e. if you decide you don't want to go for a long term relationship) is worth putting some time/effort/work to find it. I agree that the woman who recently married is not an option in any way especially not for the near future.

 

Laziness/apathy are within your control to continue or to change. It kind of reminds me of that Rush song "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".

[Blue Spiral]

Your options are largely within your control. You choose the mindset and perspective, you choose to act on that mindset/perspective. Part of it is luck and timing, sure, but there is a significant part within your control. It doesn't matter that you "only" connected with two people the last 7 years - you can look at that as "evidence" that you're not relationship material or you can look at it several different ways that result in an attitude of "gonna keep trying". It's up to you.

 

It's actually two people in the last, um, sixteen years. My first girlfriend back when I was 19/20, and my second one was roughly seven or eight years ago.

 

I'm no longer interested in having relationships--my behavior should have made that obvious--but I always thought that, if I changed my mind, I had a fallback option. No more.

 

My decision: if I can have sex with an attractive woman on my terms, outside of a relationship, I'll do it. If not, I'll continue being celibate.

[Batya33]

It's actually two people in the last, um, sixteen years. My first girlfriend back when I was 19/20, and my second one was roughly seven or eight years ago.

 

I'm no longer interested in having relationships--my behavior should have made that obvious--but I always thought that, if I changed my mind, I had a fallback option. No more.

 

My decision: if I can have sex with an attractive woman on my terms, outside of a relationship, I'll do it. If not, I'll continue being celibate.

 

Sounds like a plan! I don't think the time between your two relationships are particularly relevant or evidence that you could not choose to seek out a relationship now if you wanted.

 

I think it was unrealistic to expect in even a minor way that you'd have a fallback option. Many people move on and choose to get involved with other people or choose not to be involved with an ex or someone they once dated.

[Blue Spiral]

Well, I've seen the new Avengers movie, my favorite TV shows are winding down for the year, and the NFL draft is sadly over. I still have things to keep me occupied, but this is the time of year when boredom starts to creep in a bit. The weather is warmer, so women are wearing less, and reminding me of why I liked them in the first place.

 

Last summer, I briefly put my toe back in the water. I chatted with some women online, evaluating them as potential FWBs. I used an extremely low amount of effort--one of the reasons I became celibate was because I felt like I wasn't getting enough return on my investment, so to speak. These women were willing to be FWBs, but they weren't quite hot enough for me, sadly. (Okay, one of them was, but she moved away before anything could happen.) I'm thinking about giving it another try. If it works, great; if not, ehh, it's a decent way to pass the time.

 

Am I too apathetic/lazy to try it again? Tune in to find out! As the Blue Spiral turns...

[Patrick974]

Do you like taking vacation somewhere? If you can afford it summer romance happen all the time and rarely lead to anything serious.

[Blue Spiral]

Do you like taking vacation somewhere? If you can afford it summer romance happen all the time and rarely lead to anything serious.

 

I don't like traveling...and I wouldn't hook up with unknown quantities. I have a process. If I decide to get back in the game for a bit, I plan on sticking to that process, because it's built to maximize my strengths and cover up my weaknesses. It's a moot point, anyway: I've never been good at meeting women offline (though offline women are starting to notice me more, it seems). I assume that vacation hookups meet each other at the bar/club scene. I don't drink and I don't dance, so I'm afraid that the bar/club scene isn't for me.

[Patrick974]

Yes traveling (even within your border, the US) is a hobby and not everyone like it.

 

As to meeting girls offline Im just as much akward.

 

So, back to online dating? You might get bored quickly... 95% of women our age are looking for something serious. And off the 5% left she has to be attractive to you and live not too far either.

[Blue Spiral]

So, back to online dating? You might get bored quickly...

 

I started talking to women online when I was nineteen, and I didn't get bored/frustrated enough to quit until just a few years ago--and that was only because I raised my standards from "high" to "really high". The biological interest is always there, and I can be persistent when I really want something.

 

95% of women our age are looking for something serious.

 

I agree that most of them are, but I don't think the number is that big. A lot of thirtysomething women are divorced and burned out on relationships (for the time being, at least), or wrapped up in their careers and not wanting anything serious.

[Fudgie]

Most women are looking for something serious, yes, but I think there are casual sex seekers out there for sure. As you said, many would probably be in their 30s and fresh out of their first marriage, feeling raw and horny, and they just want to play the field and get their feelings out. Most will eventually settle down so you couldn't be with this woman long term but you could have a short term relationship or fling and that's what you're looking for, right?

[Blue Spiral]

Most women are looking for something serious, yes, but I think there are casual sex seekers out there for sure. As you said, many would probably be in their 30s and fresh out of their first marriage, feeling raw and horny, and they just want to play the field and get their feelings out. Most will eventually settle down so you couldn't be with this woman long term but you could have a short term relationship or fling and that's what you're looking for, right?

 

That's correct! I've been finding women like that for the last decade or so. So, so many of them.

 

Maybe I'll get to work on this tomorrow...

[Fudgie]

Just curious, how often do you come accross feminists, Blue Spiral? How do you deal with them? Do you date them?

 

I have a friend who is single and she talks a lot about rape culture, and how men are insensitive, and how men have it so much better. She seems to have a real chip on her shoulder about it. I want to tell her that in order to date men, she needs to stop hating them first.

[Batya33]

Just curious, how often do you come accross feminists, Blue Spiral? How do you deal with them? Do you date them?

 

I have a friend who is single and she talks a lot about rape culture, and how men are insensitive, and how men have it so much better. She seems to have a real chip on her shoulder about it. I want to tell her that in order to date men, she needs to stop hating them first.

 

Fudgie -what does that have to do with feminists/feminism? I've met women who are cynical about men -some would label themselves "feminist" and others would not. I know other feminists who certainly do not hate men in the least.

[Fudgie]

Fudgie -what does that have to do with feminists/feminism? I've met women who are cynical about men -some would label themselves "feminist" and others would not. I know other feminists who certainly do not hate men in the least.

Because she identifies as a feminist openly. Plus when I went to college, all of the women's study classes had big books on rape culture and patriarchy. So I tend to equate feminism with those ideas.

 

I'm all for equal rights (although I can't argue for equal pay and mandatory paid maternity leave at the same time) but I don't call myself a feminist, because of people like my friend.

[Batya33]

Because she identifies as a feminist openly. Plus when I went to college, all of the women's study classes had big books on rape culture and patriarchy. So I tend to equate feminism with those ideas.

 

I'm all for equal rights (although I can't argue for equal pay and mandatory paid maternity leave at the same time) but I don't call myself a feminist, because of people like my friend.

 

That's sad. I don't call myself a feminist and I am all for equal rights. A shame that some people use the label to promote hate and anger.

[Fudgie]

That's sad. I don't call myself a feminist and I am all for equal rights. A shame that some people use the label to promote hate and anger.

I know, it is a shame because equal rights are important for both genders and the message is being marred.

 

She gets on my case sometimes about this subject and I get on hers. In the end, I've told her, I don't think her attitude is going to net her the guy she is looking for and deserves. She is really smart, educated, and pretty. Now she just needs to drop the bitterness.

[Blue Spiral]

Just curious, how often do you come accross feminists, Blue Spiral? How do you deal with them? Do you date them?

 

I think you scare the mods when you ask questions like that.

 

In all seriousness, I tend to like feminists more than traditional women, and the feeling is mutual. I'm not traditionally masculine at all--except in certain common/basic ways--so women that like "manly men" don't really respond to me. The more egalitarian the woman, the better my chances. Unfortunately, I live in a fairly traditional/rural area...if you aren't a cowboy or military type, you're going to have it rough. (OK, the alt-culture girls here like alt-culture guys, but I don't have any tats or piercings, because I'm only radical on the inside. I look totally strait-laced, but my beliefs are probably more subversive than ninety-nine percent of the population's.)

 

My first girlfriend is fairly traditional, and she left me for a military guy. I don't think it would have worked out between us; we were too different. My second girlfriend is a total feminist, and, had I agreed to marry her (and been capable of monogamy!), it probably would have worked out.

 

Not to get too off-topic, but, I think that feminism gets a bad rap--a few isolated extremists say some crazy stuff, and then people act like all feminists are that way. The feminists that I know are reasonable, guy-friendly, and sex-positive. I personally believe that both misogyny and misandry are problems. Obviously, being a guy, I tend to focus on the uphill battle that men have in the culture. Men tend to run into cultural problems, and women tend to run into policy/fairness problems. But, since I say negative things about women on here, I must hate women or something. If only you could hear what I say about my own gender. When I come on ENA, I'm called a woman hater; in offline life, dudebros call me a "total male feminist". I just can't win.

 

p.s.: I'm all for people being bitter about the other gender, if they think it's justified. I don't think people should fake or adopt a more positive attitude just to increase their chances of getting laid/getting a relationship. To me, that's crazy talk. Identity isn't a democracy. "Sorry, you aren't allowed to feel that way: other people wouldn't approve, so it'd make things harder for you." How about people feel how they feel, and let the consequences sort themselves out?

[Fudgie]

I see what you mean. I have trouble with both extremes though. Can't stand macho guys but I feel like guys need to have a backbone and some of the feminist ones don't. I can't stand PC-ness and they have a lot of that.

 

To be clear, I actually don't have a problem with anyone being bitter in their right about a gender. Hey, free country, do what you want. What I think is silly is when folks like my friend are bitter about the other gender while they are looking for healthy, equal long term relationships. It doesn't work well.

 

You're looking for short term and sex so bitterness can be had while you have those relations but it's completely oxymoronic to be like "RAPE CULTURE. MEN SUCK. DOWN WITH THE PATRIARCHY." but then on the other hand, you want true love/marriage/children like my friend. Oh, and romance. What? How can you expect romance with a gender that you have a chip on your shoulder about? I've tried explaining it to her but she just gets angry with me.

 

I don't think she should fake it. I think she needs to be honest with herself. Reform her opinion and change perspective, or stop looking for that healthy long term relationship because it won't happen.