Grey Hair -- To Leave or To Color? (Men's input especially wanted!)

[Unreasonable]

Oh, and you asked something to the effect of "well, what would happen if this happened to your spouse"? Well, in that case, it wouldn't matter (to me). First impressions, and years of bonding, are very different things.

[tiredofvampires]

Lots of WONDERFUL responses, everyone, thank you so much for all the thought you put into your posts!

 

I'll get to them soon.

 

Just a couple of super short ones for now:

 

Oh my god, TOV, is that you?!? You are so pretty!!! I love the hair. Love it!!!

 

Wow, thank you bekka!! That is so sweet of you to say -- but no, that's not me. That's just a picture I found of someone whose hair is greyed about as much and in a similar pattern to mine (slightly streaked with a bit of silver "sheen", with the most silver around the temples, but still the majority of the hair has its color). What a comforting post though, especially since your earlier one was a bit cautious about whether or not a person could pull it off. Her hair looks blonder on the ends, so if you substituted that with a dark brown with a slight red tint, that would be close to how my hair looks.

 

So glad you like the hair that way, though, and it gets your endorsement (I was wondering if people saw that as looking "unkempt"), as I see you as someone pretty stylish! Whew, at least I made the tough cut of the fellow female vote! (at least the ones responding so far)...

 

 

#72 Not Hathaway: I probably wouldn't notice this woman walking down the street.

 

I know this seems like a smallish point, and you wrote so much more worth replying to, but: what do you mean by this? That that pic I posted is NOT Anne Hathaway??

 

And you're saying she's so plain, you wouldn't even take a second look at the woman in that pic? (the one I said I wanted my hair cut like, haha...)

 

I must say, as much as I tend to agree with your overall premises (I'm an avid student of evolutionary psychology theoretical models, when it comes to male-female courtship and role expectations, so I can appreciate the research and your POV [even though it's not very encouraging])....what's interesting is that you're the OLDEST man (you're 42, I think you said?) that has weighed in on this thread and you've expressed the most DISCOURAGING view of women with grey hair. And the man on this thread who was the most supportive/ENCOURAGING of my keeping the grey was the YOUNGEST man to weigh in on the thread, at 23 years old.

 

So that's a bit of an interesting note...and I daresay, a bit ironic.

 

Or, it's just a bit of demonstration that this could be the real truth:

 

As to the whole sexiness thing I think it really depends on whether or not you look good for being you and on the guy involved. And that's a matter of personal preference as much as anything.

 

(and thanks for that, PP!)

 

Unreasonable, is something you have ever discussed with your male buddies? Or is your POV mostly based on a kind of "unspoken social understanding" kind of knowledge, and what you, yourself, prefer?

 

Also, as you said you're married, (if I may ask) is your wife of an age where grey is coming in yet, and if so, does she dye it? (Even though point taken about it being different when you're already with someone a long time vs. first impressions -- I was just challenging Ms Darcy's comment that she could not see wanting to have sex with anyone with grey hair [paraphrased].)

[tiredofvampires]

Quote from the page below:

 

Just For Men Touch of Gray Hair Treatment provides a perfect look, a little gray to show your experience, but not so much that it hides your vitality.

 

Perfect for Getting Rid of Some Gray Without Getting Rid of It All

 

Formula lets you keep some of your grays

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link removed

 

This actually makes me kind of mad, the double-standard is so blatant. HEY, I GOT EXPERIENCE FOR YOU, BABY! ANYONE?

 

But it's not like we haven't talked about this...

[tiredofvampires]

Again, thanks for your reviews of the various pics posted, Unreasonable. And the rest of your input.

 

Yes, I would have sex will all of these women, obviously. They're friggin models with rocking bodies.

 

I'm not sure how you know all of them are models (except the very young one with the grey-dyed hair -- and I do agree that it's an odd fashion trend, but hey. That's gotta say something. No Kelly Osbourne for you, I guess?)

 

But even if they are models, I see women like that around me a lot. I chose examples of faces and bodies that are entirely realistic, at least from what I see around me (and the book link I posted has regular real women in a slide-show presentation, too ).

 

And the point is...you don't have to be a model to have a rocking body, a pretty face...and if you'd have sex with them, doesn't that mean they are attractive enough to have sex with?

 

As a woman, if a man is attractive enough to have sex with -- that means he's got that box CHECKED. If I find him sexy, physically, he's in the running. I'd like [make that need] other boxes to be checked at well, but I don't need him to be sexier than someone I'd have sex with!

 

So....just a sort of musing, contemplative thought about things said here and in other threads.

 

Okay. A man will screw a woman he finds attractive, but has some feature he's not crazy about long term. So he's "pickier" about a long-term choice. Meaning, "you're sexy enough to fully enjoy sexually -- just not for too long"?

 

So as it relates to this situation, does that mean a man who wants to sleep with you over the short haul might find you physically attractive enough to have sex with, and yet if you had the feature of grey hair which gives the impression of "old, not sexual", how does that hold together?

 

So say a guy meets me. He thinks I have a "rocking body" (it's not "rocking" at the moment because I need to tone up, but it doesn't look old and isn't overweight, saggy, etc.). Enough that he'd get a stiffy. He thinks my face is attractive. Enough to get a stiffy. He thinks my personality is attractive. Enough to enjoy being around me. But he would not want me for anything more than a fling, because my hair isn't attractive enough (because it's got grey in it, even if "stylish") and when you're thinking long-term, you want more...more than these things in a partner, and must be pickier.

 

I'm attractive enough to want to screw, I'm attractive enough to enjoy being with, but I'm not attractive enough to think of as a long-term prospect.

 

And men say women are impossible to figure out.

[Unreasonable]

I know this seems like a smallish point, and you wrote so much more worth replying to, but: what do you mean by this? That that pic I posted is NOT Anne Hathaway??

 

And you're saying she's so plain, you wouldn't even take a second look at the woman in that pic? (the one I said I wanted my hair cut like, haha...)

Oh, sorry. What I meant is, in the same post that has Anne Hathaway, there is another woman with fully gray hair, not Anne Hathaway. Obviously I'd hit up Anne Hathaway, but I don't think I'd give the woman above her a second look walking down the street. That doesn't mean, that if somehow a situation arose where we found ourselves in the same room together chatting, and she was particularly fascinating, that some spark couldn't happen I suppose, just that it wouldn't on first sight and probably wouldn't even after. Remember we're on the Flirting and Attraction boards, not the Long Term Relationship board. I'd probably talking a little different there, because that's not about getting your foot in the door.

 

Again, I'm married and older so I don't spend a significant amount of time playing "would I or wouldn't I?"

 

Also, I should disclose that, while I'm no chisled greek god at 42, I have just enough gray hairs on my head to prove I don't dye under examination, but not more than a typical 30 year old. I also have never smoked, rarely drink, avoid stress, and keep myself out of the sun, so you would need a magnifying glass to see any wrinkles on my face. I would expect a somewhat similar appearance to any new mate I took. So, if I seem to come off as exceptionally harsh, that could be a factor. My outlook might change if I somehow found myself in the dating game again, although I think my social success (i.e. money) would probably pay more of a factor. I don't think I'm a typical case, so if I am coming off as 'discouraging' take it with a grain of salt. I do stand by the assertion that for whatever reason, older men seem to gravitate towards younger women, whether it be biology or what have you.

 

When the time comes that I have significant gray (should be late 50's is my father is any indicator - it is pretty clear I got my youth genes from him), I probably won't dye unless my wife asked me to, and based on her attitude, I don't think she will. I've actually wanted to appear distinguished for some time. Yeah, there's that double standard. When I was in my 20's I tried to sell life insurance and failed miserably because no one wanted to buy life insurance from someone that looked like a teenager. Yeah, I got carded to see a rated R movie when I was 25. So I'm kind of looking forward to it.

 

But even if they are models, I see women like that around me a lot. I chose examples of faces and bodies that are entirely realistic, at least from what I see around me

 

Well, you did say you live in L.A., right? Was that you? If so, you and I aren't seeing the same subset of women as I live on the opposite side of the country. I have NEVER seen a fully gray woman that looked as young (facially) as the first woman in #70. I daresay if she was a day over 40 I would be shocked, and I suspect she is actually much younger than that. Hence my assumption that she is a model (and that clearly looks like a headshot to me).

 

Also, as you said you're married, (if I may ask) is your wife of an age where grey is coming in yet, and if so, does she dye it? (Even though point taken about it being different when you're already with someone a long time vs. first impressions

She turns 40 soon and also does not have a significant amount of gray hairs. I suspect if that happened she would dye (this is based off things she's said I have never said anything to her). Either way, we have a strong mult-decade bond so this will not be an issue.

 

Okay. A man will screw a woman he finds attractive, but has some feature he's not crazy about long term. So he's "pickier" about a long-term choice. Meaning, "you're sexy enough to fully enjoy sexually -- just not for too long"?

 

So as it relates to this situation, does that mean a man who wants to sleep with you over the short haul might find you physically attractive enough to have sex with, and yet if you had the feature of grey hair which gives the impression of "old, not sexual", how does that hold together?

 

So say a guy meets me. He thinks I have a "rocking body" (it's not "rocking" at the moment because I need to tone up, but it doesn't look old and isn't overweight, saggy, etc.). Enough that he'd get a stiffy. He thinks my face is attractive. Enough to get a stiffy. He thinks my personality is attractive. Enough to enjoy being around me. But he would not want me for anything more than a fling, because my hair isn't attractive enough (because it's got grey in it, even if "stylish") and when you're thinking long-term, you want more...more than these things in a partner, and must be pickier.

 

I'm attractive enough to want to screw, I'm attractive enough to enjoy being with, but I'm not attractive enough to think of as a long-term prospect.

 

And men say women are impossible to figure out.

What I am saying is this: You take 2 identical 45 year old women, we'll say identical twins, who have a significant amount of gray in their hair. One of them tastefully dyes such so that it is not a completely harsh unnatural look. My hypothesis is that a majority of men, on looks alone (they haven't met yet), will gravitate towards the woman that has dyed. That's all I'm saying. I mean, if you can break that initial barrier, anything could happen I suppose because after that it's not just about the look. It is no longer a first impression.

[quirky]

I started reading the thread but got lost by page 3/4..lol But I'll tell you what I think

 

First of you're gorgeous, you're pretty, excitable and smart too = killer combination. As you know I am vain and love clothes and hair and I am obsessed with having my hair a certain way. I can leave the house with the 'wrong' clothes but if my hair is not right it bothers me. I don't dye it yet. YET.

 

I think you should just try it out with a henna dye and see how you feel. Do a semi permanent one. Everything else is speculation at this point. You might surprise yourself and really like it and not have moral issues any more. Or you might think 'meh' and not bother again. It's not a permanent life changing thing, you can just try it.

 

I have a friend, male, who had almost white hair from age 30 and it looked odd, definitely aged him eventhough his skin was great. It was weird..he looked both young and old at the same time. The ladies' pics you posted they are models and great lighting has been used and some makeup possibly too and they are older than you most of them. Maybe white hair looks more right after a certain age.

[tiredofvampires]

Ooh ooh, I have to post this blog, before I do more posting -- it's actually quite amazing how many resources there are on this! It's almost like women need a massive support group for this, haha.

 

Some of the women in this slideshow don't look all that sexy to me, but others do, even with my "guy hat" on...

 

link removed

 

I think what she says here about color palette in clothes needing to change is spot-on, with what I'm noticing. Maybe as much or even more than style of hair, it's how you complement the color with what you wear...yeah. I've noticed that brighter colors (some of them) make my hair look washed out and overwhelm it, but greys, blacks, silver, charcoals instantly look classy. Which isn't too bad considering I wear a lot of these "colors" anyway. But I don't want to have to wear them all the time, and I LOVE warm, earthy tones...not as much cold colors, so she said she had to do away with the browns and autumn colors and that sucks, because I love warm dark browns and related shades.

 

But I guess that's because they went with my hair.

[Sportster2005]

I love a woman with a long silvery head of hair. I think it's a shame women colour their hair so much.

[tiredofvampires]

I love a woman with a long silvery head of hair. I think it's a shame women colour their hair so much.

 

Thank you so much for your "pro silver/grey" vote, Sportster! It's great to get that opinion, and quite heartening, as there aren't many definite "pro" votes for it on the thread! I'm really glad some guys out there think like you!

 

What's funny is that I googled this topic and found the question presented (with a shorter OP, haha) on a couple of other forums, and a TON of guys (in all age ranges, but particularly 25 and up) said that they don't care, if the woman seems confident; OR it's even a plus in terms of showing confidence, that she doesn't feel she needs to color her hair. I've seen many (the majority, in fact) of men comment on those threads along the lines that it shows a sexy attitude, and it's all about attitude, etc. One guy said something totally quote-worthy (so I wish I had it in front of me), like, "If she still has that look of mischief in her eye, then I'll just see the silver hair as more experienced mischief. " I'm paraphrasing, but that was the close gist of it.

 

A lot of these comments came from 40-somethings, but like I said, even younger ones as well.

 

Then I'm here, and feel kind of baffled that the push is to dye. I'm not sure what accounts for the discrepancy.

 

Just as a curiosity Sportster: what do you think of the "in between" effect, when it's salt-and-pepper or somewhat salty (mine isn't quite yet salt-and-pepper)? Because I agree with you about pure silver hair, but I'm feeling the in-between look isn't as appealing. What's your taste on that?

[journeynow]

 

 

These women are beautiful, and having gray hair adds to their beauty. A good haircut, a touch of make-up, but mostly health and attitude, go a long way.

[browneyedgirl36]

I am a natural blonde -- dark blonde, anyway. I started getting gray hairs in my early 30's, I think, but it's hard to see them unless you get really close to me and look at my scalp. I've been getting my hair highlighted 2-3 times per year for probably the last 10 years or so, so it has a lot of nice highlights in it that camouflage the gray to some extent when it does start to show. My mom, who has/had medium brown hair, is salt-and-peppery now, and it looks GREAT on her. People compliment her on it. She has a very rosy complexion, though, and I don't -- I'm more pale, so I know I'd look washed out with totally gray hair. I will probably dye my hair some sort of dark blonde/ash blonde as I get older and the gray takes over. I have mine done professionally, and it's not cheap ($150 for highlights and cut, 2-3 times a year -- I have really long hair) -- but it's totally worth it. I'm 43, and people tell me I look no older than late 30's, and I know that's probably partly due to my hair -- the color, length, and style of it.

 

TOV, a nice, semi-permanent home color can be the way to go, and you can use a root touch-up kit every few weeks to keep the roots fresh without dyeing your whole head, which is bad for your hair even if you're not bleaching it.

 

One thing I really suggest is that, even if you don't want to pay to regularly get your hair professionally colored, you might go to a good salon at least once to determine a good color for you. I say this because women with dark hair in particular can look REALLY washed out as they get older due to choosing the wrong color. I have an aunt, bless her heart, whose hair would be completely white if she didn't dye it. She's VERY pale and wouldn't look good with the color of gray her hair is, but she's dyed it a really unnatural color -- almost black -- and it ages her even more, I think. She's 68, and looks every bit of that. My mom, on the other hand, is 71, doesn't color her hair, and looks younger. She's lucky, though -- her hair looks good with the gray.

 

A consultant with a stylist at a salon would probably be really great for you.

[90_hour_sleep]

What a tangled mess!

 

It's times like these I'm grateful for my gender. Although, as someone mentioned, men have their own set of hair hangups to contend with. Sides of the same coin, I suppose.

 

Personally, I like grey hair...and white hair...and everything in between. There's something almost elegant about it. And honestly, I think the correlation to ''older'' is a bit of misnomer. If anything, I think the saltiness adds a bit of ambiguity in that department. Maybe because it draws attention from other perceived ''flaws''? Somehow, a youthful face in conjunction with the grey, makes for a mysterious sort of package. Maybe the new trends have something to do with that. In any event, I don't find I associate grey with age, so much as I associate it with longevity (maybe that sounds like an odd distinction). The people I know that wear grey well, seem to have an ageless defiance about them, like they've truly made peace with what it means to age in this world (if you can reconcile the use of the word 'defiance' in that).

 

Of course, it really comes down to the person, and how she chooses to wear it. I think if you want it to suit you, it will. And the same goes for coloring.

 

As far as the dating world is concerned...I don't think this makes a lick of difference. Quality attracts quality. Attraction is no doubt important...but it's far from simple...and the reductionist logic involved in equating grey with old doesn't really do the complexity justice (imo).

 

Tough one. Curious to hear what you decide.