Grey Hair -- To Leave or To Color? (Men's input especially wanted!)

[Seraphim]

I don't know I'm not sure I could ever get over the idea pounded into my head that white on me is horrible. I don't look at anyone else's hair and judge it but when I look at myself I am just horrified. But that was something instilled in me by my mother. My mother and her mother before me were very self image aware. If you are not perfect then you're not worth it. Me ,I'm far less like that. When I was younger I would say that I was very much like my mother and my grandmother. Now I am more about the value of the inside of me than the outside. But I think that has rubbed off onto me from my husband. My husband and his family are very fashion unaware. They think fashion ,make up ,hair dye anything like that it's a pure waste of time ,effort and money. So I would say I'm halfway in between my mother's way and my husband's way. But I just cannot get past the hair issue. Once my roots get to a certain stage I just can't bear looking at it. It just makes me want to blow my own head off. I feel it makes me look at least 15 years older than I am.

[tiredofvampires]

So, just for discussion purposes, Vic...you know that inside, you are not old. Your heart is young.

 

And your husband doesn't care, or even would prefer you not to color your hair.

 

So, if you would not look old in his eyes, and YOU know you are not old...who is it you feel you need to impress? If you just try to push past the knee-jerk conditioning?

 

I'm asking for myself as much as just to pick your brain, lol.

 

It's amazing how these insecurities and messages get generationally....well, generated. "Old before your time." Really, when you break that down, what on earth does that mean? As far as I'm concerned, I'll get old when I decide Ima gonna get old, har har, and I don't feel anywhere close, heart-wise. (Or would that totally contradict the insecurities I'm expressing here?)

 

And randomly, I'll add that I'm not grey enough that if I let the hair grow out, you'd see the roots. It's still too scattered for that hard line where the dye stops and the grey starts (except maybe with the baby hair at my hairline in the front, which is very silvery).

 

I agree with those who have said that once your hair is THAT grey, if you're going to dye it, don't let it go. I think the look of color going up to 2 inches of your roots looks really awful. Better not to color in that case.

[poetryandlyrics]

As much as I'm not in the usual demographic for this topic at hand, but whatever. I get you. I'm low maintenance about my appearance, which I do know I'm lucky to have good DNA for that. I don't like make-up. Maybe occasionally, but they are very rare. Hell, I used to only wear it when I'm going out to have fun (not out-out, but out with friends at a club or on a date to a certain event), but even they are now decreasing. I never liked to worry about my hair. Most thing I ever did was straighten, but then I slowly get bored of it. It's just too much of a hassle! It's boring. It's stupid. I'm often conflicted with my hair because it often has a mind of its own, but I don't want to do it. Although, right now, I'm cool. I finally found a hairstyle I don't mind the work on because it's partially shaven so hey, it's like a quarter of the work! I do wonder when I'm older, I probably can't pull off that style but I'm also entertaining a specific hairstyle for that age range, which is should be low maintenance care into it. I guess, for me, I just like to do what I like to do. Pierce, tattoo, hair dye (I swear, it's not as extreme -- I look perfectly unmarked, lol), but not what I'm forced to do. Make-up, hair, whatever. I don't want to. I hardly even wear heels -- and I often stumble. Just... No. I rather much go bare-foot. So regarding your distaste of the up-keep, I totally understand.

 

I do think, for your other thing... it seems that you're conflicted because the roots of it is not about dating, it's about the "scars" and your hair is showing it. Making you feel vulnerable. Scars of that kind are supposed to be hidden. Marked on the soul instead. Maybe you need to take a new spin on it, a new perspective on it? Like learning how to love your scars because it gave you strength or something you value in yourself. And then let that shine.

 

As for that guy, if he hasn't seen you yet but was talking to you yet... Yeah, I see your dilemma. I wouldn't like to... "Lie" like that. Just feels weird. Hiding yourself. You're supposed to reveal yourself to your partner (even though he isn't technically one yet), scars and all. To hide it now is lying from the start, it feels.

 

But I think, he'll understand, wouldn't he? I mean, it's not an unusual sight for women, of all ages, even to a completely different hair color (while not being gray). Even so, I admire your persona, so I'm sure the right one would do too and that's not gonna bother him. In comparison to someone else with a heavier baggage than gray hair from past experiences, you should be fine. You certainly do feel like you're grounded into yourself.

[Seraphim]

Truthfully ,my husband wouldn't care if I wore a trash bag he probably wouldn't notice. Lol. But no he doesn't think I look old. And he told me he wouldn't care if I did. He loves me for me.

 

But that he wouldn't notice or care if I wore trashbag you kind of have to wonder what kind of opinion that is. Lol

[itsallgrand]

I think you should try some temporary colours and see how you feel about that. You. How you feel.

 

I know how much meaning you put in hair!! But to me - meh, it's just hair. I've had every hair cut, dye, etc. under the sun. Right now, my hair is the longest it has ever been since I was a little girl and it's natural. I have my first little whites now. It's just enough that if you are close enough to hug me or know me, you see. I'm more concerned right now with keeping the quality of my hair really healthy. But I'm not above colouring it if I were to ever become self conscious about it (I'm not right now). I'm not above getting a few treatments on my skin either in a few years if it means continuing to feel really good about how I look and me in my own skin. I don't feel like I need to apologize for that bit of vanity, either. I am not trying to defeat or deny getting older.

 

I think more than looking young exactly, what is attractive is to look healthy. My grandmother is in her eighties, snow white hair now but for the longest time she dyed it!, and gorgeous in my opinion. But she's always looked healthy.

 

You are smart, and you are creative, and you have a good eye. I'm sure you can look in the mirror and determine how best to flatter objectively...and as crude as this may sound...what is "f/able". Again, I'm probably being unfairly minimal with this....but in my experience...what men like is "f/able". lol.

[ProtestTheHero]

Lol, I surf this section all the time and just now saw this, I don't know how I missed it.

 

I'd probably color it. I mean, yeah, maybe it's something we've been conditioned to expect, but I look at it more pragmatically than philosophically. Some people won't like it and some people won't care. The people that wouldn't care also wouldn't be bothered by your decision to color it, while dudes that sort of subconsciously react to the grey might find themselves moved by that preference. Therefore, you don't really have anything to lose by coloring it outside of the time for and cost of maintenance, and that's negligible.

 

You can say "this isn't me," but it's a random line in the sand to draw and a weird battle to pick. I know that I have several things that society has conditioned me to view as flaws, but I'd get rid of all of them if all it took from me was a little money every 6 weeks, regardless of the meta-sociocultural discussion floating around in my head. I wouldn't consciously choose not to remove as many hurdles as possible so I'd drop the $ and do it.

[tiredofvampires]

That was an awesome post, WoO. And substantive.

 

 

 

Yeah, exactly. Doesn't matter what demographic you're in -- that sounds just like me! And I don't wear heels either -- they're pretty and sexy, but my feet don't like them, and I really am not coordinated enough to wear them anyway. Too bad, as I'd like to on some occasions.

 

(I think I've seen your hairstyle in the Photo thread though, and it looks good and semi-punk, but the shaved part is probably more upkeep, no?)

 

I have to admit, as little as I am into doing these non-essential grooming maintenance things as regular parts of my life, there's something about putting on a little makeup (it's usually minimal for me, but a little accentuates things well, goes a long way) for targeted occasions that makes me feel excited, because something special is going on. It's like a little ritual before an event, an I actually feel that if you look super put together all the time, and always made up, no one really notices when you put the extra effort in. So there's something to be said for being low-hassle on regular, average days -- besides just the savings in time and energy. It MAKES YOU STAND OUT from your usual look, and that usually is a nice feeling for me. Like Cinderella going to the ball!

 

 

 

You really hit on something here, because reading this, I got pretty choked up. Thank you for that insight, and the heartfelt words of that message.

 

I think you're right about the vulnerability. I feel exposed, somehow. I know that sounds really strange. And maybe no one else feels this way about this. It's not JUST about getting old(er), it's that I feel something really deep has emerged from inside as a pain and has "surfaced" in my hair. That I'm wearing the tears in my hair.

 

And coloring would help me turn back not just the clock on it all...but seal the wounds.

 

It would almost make it "unhappen."

 

And you're right...that's not only about dating, but it ties in. Because every time dating comes up...after a period of fallow for me...I have to revisit questions about what I want or need to show or reveal about myself, some of it not for the faint of heart. And that makes me want to stay back in the shadows somewhat, where I don't have to be seen. Me or my hair.

 

I think this coloring thing is sort of a question put to me about that. It's about all the regular reasons women feel pressured to dye their hair, as mentioned in this thread, which are more commonplace. But for me there's this extra dimension...whether I want to try to value these marks as they are, or to try to pretend they are not there.

 

And if I want to perpetuate that pretense as I go out into the world.

 

So yeah:

 

 

 

It does somehow feel...like I'm not putting the "real me" out there in some way. I mean, if I was an A cup and I wore a bra with falsies or huge padding, it'd be a bit of a parallel. Some people feel totally comfortable with creating an illusion like that...but I just feel like, then how do I know you'd still like me without all that? Wouldn't I prefer to know that from the start?

 

I guess the argument to that would be, "Get to know the person first and have them charmed by your other qualities, and then slowly reveal the less polished sides of yourself when they are more invested emotionally in you." I dunno...it still feels like an act then, a ploy...just to me.

 

 

 

 

Thank you again for the really kind words. I would say "grounded" is fortunately something I've been able to maintain...or grow...even with a lot of emotionally intense life situations and turbulence. I won't say I don't have my meltdowns, but on whole, I feel I could be a stable mate for someone. He's definitely not your average type of guy (I mean, he's been low key enough to not pressure me to get together for many months, and we don't even know what each other look like at this point, but he's still talking to me. He messaged me from a dating site, that's how it started, and neither of us had pictures up; so I don't know how he looks either, but I'm guessing he's fairly decent looking...just a sense I have. He's also in his 30's, so I'd be lying to say that's not playing into this for me.)

 

I don't know what it will or won't be...but maybe he'd see me and wouldn't care...I don't know. He's NOT a typical guy, that's for sure (and he couldn't be, for it to be a match, even if we friendzoned eachother.) I'm not feeling particularly like making a hard pitch to look alluring and tip this toward romance, but on the other hand, I don't want his first thought to be a subconscious lack of interest either, since everyone has things they are attracted to or not subliminally...in case we mesh in other ways. In other words, I don't want to spoil potential from the get-go, even though I'm not goal-oriented here.

 

I just didn't think I'd care about it when it came around to it...but I guess I do more than I thought.

[poetryandlyrics]

You really hit on something here, because reading this, I got pretty choked up. Thank you for that insight, and the heartfelt words of that message.

 

 

 

(I think I've seen your hairstyle in the Photo thread though, and it looks good and semi-punk, but the shaved part is probably more upkeep, no?)

…

 

I have to admit, as little as I am into doing these non-essential grooming maintenance things as regular parts of my life, there's something about putting on a little makeup (it's usually minimal for me, but a little accentuates things well, goes a long way) for targeted occasions that makes me feel excited, because something special is going on. It's like a little ritual before an event, an I actually feel that if you look super put together all the time, and always made up, no one really notices when you put the extra effort in. So there's something to be said for being low-hassle on regular, average days -- besides just the savings in time and energy. It MAKES YOU STAND OUT from your usual look, and that usually is a nice feeling for me. Like Cinderella going to the ball!

I totally agree, which is why I’m more likely to wear make-up for those events. Currently, not much, but I suspect there’s certain reasons for it.

As for my hair, yeah, I guess, a tiny bit of an up-keep, but I don’t mind it in comparison. I found an awesome hair stylist (there’s a saying I like to say – if you got a Deaf customer to like you, you get a customer for life. simply because everyone tend to ignore us. this one, she talks to me and gets me involved in her hair stylist talk with other people there. I like her, it’s a cool environment). But also, it’s basically just once a month, shave and cut it down. Then all I have to do is take care of what’s left or take a shower (for the wavy effect) and that’s it. Otherwise… I have way more to do if I didn’t have my haircut. I’ll bend this way because it’s low care in comparison.

And simply because I feel good about myself like that, knowing I'm rocking a good haircut. Haha.

 

 

 

It does somehow feel...like I'm not putting the "real me" out there in some way. I mean, if I was an A cup and I wore a bra with falsies or huge padding, it'd be a bit of a parallel. Some people feel totally comfortable with creating an illusion like that...but I just feel like, then how do I know you'd still like me without all that? Wouldn't I prefer to know that from the start?

 

I guess the argument to that would be, "Get to know the person first and have them charmed by your other qualities, and then slowly reveal the less polished sides of yourself when they are more invested emotionally in you." I dunno...it still feels like an act then, a ploy...just to me.

 

 

Thank you again for the really kind words. I would say "grounded" is fortunately something I've been able to maintain...or grow...even with a lot of emotionally intense life situations and turbulence. I won't say I don't have my meltdowns, but on whole, I feel I could be a stable mate for someone. He's definitely not your average type of guy (I mean, he's been low key enough to not pressure me to get together for many months, and we don't even know what each other look like at this point, but he's still talking to me. He messaged me from a dating site, that's how it started, and neither of us had pictures up; so I don't know how he looks either, but I'm guessing he's fairly decent looking...just a sense I have. He's also in his 30's, so I'd be lying to say that's not playing into this for me.)

 

I don't know what it will or won't be...but maybe he'd see me and wouldn't care...I don't know. He's NOT a typical guy, that's for sure (and he couldn't be, for it to be a match, even if we friendzoned eachother.) I'm not feeling particularly like making a hard pitch to look alluring and tip this toward romance, but on the other hand, I don't want his first thought to be a subconscious lack of interest either, since everyone has things they are attracted to or not subliminally...in case we mesh in other ways. In other words, I don't want to spoil potential from the get-go, even though I'm not goal-oriented here.

 

I just didn't think I'd care about it when it came around to it...but I guess I do more than I thought.

 

Hm. Well, I do see how a slightly younger guy would play in this, but he should know anyway. A lot of women my age and his still play with their hair. I’m sure he should be already be in the know for it. But I do see some bonus points for him when you wrote about him: he messaged you – he had to know your age, too, and he made the first move. He didn’t care that you didn’t show your picture so perhaps it’s less of an importance for him.

 

Well, I guess it all comes to is whether you feel comfortable showing it or not. I don’t really know how to answer this. Maybe you could have your own practice for this date night. Dress yourself up in the Cinderella thing as you stated above (not the poof! just awesome clothes and make-up, do yourself over like you would for that date), and then decide if you want to dye it still to complete the look or not.

 

I do think that you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself for feeling like you’re lying about your looks if you do dye (though I do understand!). Because everyone dyes their hair all the time. Even to unnatural color. It’s just a matter of liking color.

 

Well. I think I’ll give you a few more suggestions. Do the dress yourself up over to decide. If you can’t, make a pro and con list to decide. If you can’t… Flip a coin. If you get disappointed or thrilled with the outcome, you know the answer.

 

 

My other suggestion about your scars is, again... Embrace yourself, find your value in your scars. And I think, it's wonderful that you're feeling this way, even though it's not an exactly a good feeling, but... It just shows you have emotions. You're only human. You feel. You're still in touch with yourself. You're alive so be alive. Feel it and then let it go after acknowledging.

[tiredofvampires]

I think you should try some temporary colours and see how you feel about that. You. How you feel.

 

When you say "temporary colors", you mean...? I'm just so not in the know about any of this.

 

But I'm not above colouring it if I were to ever become self conscious about it (I'm not right now). I'm not above getting a few treatments on my skin either in a few years if it means continuing to feel really good about how I look and me in my own skin. I don't feel like I need to apologize for that bit of vanity, either. I am not trying to defeat or deny getting older.

 

I really do understand what you're saying here. And just to be clear: it's not that I'm thinking, "I'm above" (in the sense of superior to) this kind of vanity. It's more like, I guess some things feel like I'm "cheating." Trying to cheat myself into a perception of myself, trying to cheat others into having a certain perception/image of me, trying to cheat time. it just vaguely feels dishonest, even though I completely don't feel I'm above vanity. I guess also because what I've gone through, it almost seems like I'd have thought these kinds of cares would have fallen away because look what really has mattered.

 

In the last 3 years, I've been fighting to live, for my life -- and so now, some silver hair is something to fret about? It's just a sense of proportionality that I'd have thought would have knocked these little skin-deep concerns entirely off my radar...forever. And instead, it seems like they're there even moreso. Which is a startling phenomenon.

 

Can you tell me though, when you say, "I am not trying to defeat or deny getting older" what the vanity would be about then? If you tried to cover grey hairs or enhance skin that's no longer at its prime?

 

You are smart, and you are creative, and you have a good eye. I'm sure you can look in the mirror and determine how best to flatter objectively...and as crude as this may sound...what is "f/able". Again, I'm probably being unfairly minimal with this....but in my experience...what men like is "f/able". lol.

 

Haha, no, I know what you mean, and I completely agree. The only thing is...I am trying to remember a time I've looked at myself that way. As having a "f/able" look. And I'm coming up a little short, lol. I may have felt that on some rare occasion, either dressed or undressed...but I just don't view myself that way. Maybe because I see that as someone looking (and ACTING) significantly more sultry than I look most of the time, lol. I've indeed donned a sultry look, and it's not been unsuccessful in garnering the attention of guys who had that in mind, lol...but seeing MYSELF in that way? Rare. I think my body passes as decent (though I'm not in shape or toned [something I hope to get back], I'm proportioned fairly well and have an average/slim build), and I can objectively do right by it with my wardrobe, if/when I put my mind to it. But I think because my mind doesn't go there when I think about meeting a person first thing, as in "hello, sex object" (well, sometimes it does, haha, but usually not when I'm serious about someone), I guess I don't see myself that way either. If that makes sense. I think most people reflect back to me my more dominant traits, which aren't tangible: people find me sweet/disarming (even though not in a sugary, demure way), and those don't tend to lead directly to fworthy.

 

So I have no idea how grey would or wouldn't influence that, and it would also depend on the guy, I think.

[tiredofvampires]

Lol, I surf this section all the time and just now saw this, I don't know how I missed it.

 

Haha, no worries -- you know what's funny, when I saw your name here that you posted, before reading, my first thought was, "UH OH! THIS ISN'T GONNA TURN OUT WELL FOR ME -- GET READY TO BE SPENDING THE MOOLAH!!!" LOL...

 

The thing is though, as I mentioned in a post to Hazlewood (post #40), the cost is NOT really negligible. Even for women of more means than me. In fact, it can be pretty steep, depending on how I do it. If I do it in a salon, as I've done, as I find my long hair incredibly hard to work with by myself -- it's been approaching or over $100 for a treatment, with or without tip. And as I mentioned to Hazlewood, maybe for some that would feel like a slightly uncomfortable pinch, or even like nothing, but commensurate with my income and other expenses, to be doing that every 6-8 weeks for ME is PAINFUL. Not completely impossible, but painful enough that I'd have to sacrifice many other things I want and need.

 

Also, as I mentioned, it's a significant issue to me that I use a product that doesn't keep putting toxic chemicals onto my scalp. I'm not willing to go that far, because having a body part removed to treat cancer later isn't exactly a good vanity trade-off. But quality toxin-free products and treatments add price, wherever you're getting them.

 

Fortunately, there ARE non-toxic products (henna and other natural plant pigments), but they are quite a bit more time-consuming, each treatment is labor-intense, and very messy. It's certainly not off the table, but again, it's a cost-benefit analysis of what I'm putting in vs. what I'm reaping from it -- and that's where my question lies. Like, how much difference is it actually making, and to how much of the male population?

 

I wish there was some more clear-cut, clinical way to determine these things, quantify them, you know? Because I do agree with what you're saying and get where you're coming from about just sucking it up to cover your bases, to remove gratuitous hurdles. But on the other hand, you name me any flaw, and I'd be able to find a person who is not only okay with that and wouldn't really call it a flaw, but I could find you another person who thinks it's an advantage or endearing/charming.

 

And some traits lend themselves to more or less consensus on the matter. For instance, I think most people would agree that a cleft palate is something you'd like to get fixed for cosmetic purposes, at very least. Or if a woman loses a breast to cancer, reconstructive surgery is usually on insurance plans, because it's considered part of having a normal body to fix disfigurements. Lots of women opt not to get that surgery, and they find partners anyway (or their current partner stays with them, and it doesn't affect their love life adversely.) But you'd be hard-pressed to find people who have some weird attraction to these "flaws."

 

On the other end of the spectrum, you have things like eye or hair color (natural color when it's not grey) and those preferences. So many people are fine with whatever eye color you have, or hair color, if anyone were to suggest it's a "flaw" to have this shade or that, you'd think they're a bit daft, because there is so LITTLE consensus about these traits and what's beautiful, so much variance. Much of the same goes for various body types and statures -- so much variability in preference out there, there's little to no stigma associated with quite a lot of looks and traits. Some of them are more typically associated with "flawedness", like for instance, having a big nose. But you'll find enough people, male and female, who don't find that unattractive, or even find it a turn-on in the opposite sex, that you can think of yourself as having niche appeal.

 

So I would argue that whatever "flaws" you have, you're thinking of in sort of gross terms.

 

And how this relates to me with my hair is that I really don't have a good sense of how "flawed" -- in terms of percentage -- having grey hair would be, in the population of men. It's not by and large considered a mark of sex appeal on a woman, conventionally -- but nor is it considered abnormal or even necessarily a choice to not care for your appearance. So this lies in a fuzzy middle-ground of opinion.

 

Let's say 20% of men would say it's clearly a detractor. Well, that's a percentage I could live with, if I knew that 20% of men found it actually a turn-on, and the other 60% were open to it, as long as they found other attractive qualities and traits predominating, with no subconscious biases about color. If I had such data, I'd be less inclined to go through the time (a few hours of a day, every several weeks, if with henna), effort, hassle, and expense of dyeing it. (And again, I'll just add, this is something you'd have to KEEP doing, with some dedication, not just once, but indefinitely or until my hair turns solid silver.)

 

But I don't have such data. I mean, if I lined up 100 men of different ages and 80 of them said, "Nah," if I were dressed up nicely, looked presentable otherwise and asked them if my silver hairs were off-putting, would I be more inclined to think, "Well screw dyeing it, then"? Hell yeah.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

I mean, people don't uniformly view "flaws" as flaws. And, there's something to the idea that some "flaws" may rightly serve as filters, even. Even if they are (painfully) alterable.

 

It's not that I'd be picking a battle just to make a point, or to stake out an ideology. And I certainly don't want to put pointless roadblocks in my path for any of these "causes." I'm not an anti-conformist. I'm not trying to boycott doing something sheerly as a challenge, either to people who do otherwise (other women) or to men (who I might want to attract). I'm just looking at the pros and the cons, the costs and the benefits, and saying, it's hard to evaluate doing or not doing something when you don't even know what outcomes you're prospectively dealing with.

 

I mean, in a way...anyone can blow a "flaw" out of proportion and obsess over it, despite the fact that society isn't of a singular opinion. So my/your own gauges may be tricky to rely on, and are hardly impartial, even if there is some vague, generalized social message. And that's something to be careful of. I'm not immune to that trap -- however reasonable a "corrective measure" may seem.

 

And sometimes the "corrective measure" itself may be relatively benign...but the feeling behind doing it is not.

[tiredofvampires]

Maybe you could have your own practice for this date night. Dress yourself up in the Cinderella thing as you stated above (not the poof! just awesome clothes and make-up, do yourself over like you would for that date), and then decide if you want to dye it still to complete the look or not.

 

That's a pretty good idea...such a good one that I've actually tried it.

 

And I still can't decide!

 

I do think that you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself for feeling like you’re lying about your looks if you do dye (though I do understand!). Because everyone dyes their hair all the time. Even to unnatural color. It’s just a matter of liking color.

 

And that's cool, I think just wanting to experiment with colors is a different matter. I'm not crazy about unnatural-looking colors out there, like neon yellow, bright red/orange, and blues/purples. But I see that as more interested in body decoration than trying to cover age. So psychologically, it's a lot less loaded.

 

Maybe if I went purple and gold, I could just reframe the whole thing, lol.

[nutbrownhare]

Because being grey is associated with being OLD. Society teaches that old is not attractive.

It's interesting you bring this up; I was at a party a while back, and a guy commented how much he liked my silver streaks. He said that in his home country (Jamaica) grey hair is regarded as a symbol of wisdom - and beautiful!

[tiredofvampires]

It's interesting you bring this up; I was at a party a while back, and a guy commented how much he liked my silver streaks. He said that in his home country (Jamaica) grey hair is regarded as a symbol of wisdom - and beautiful!

 

Native American peoples feel this way as well (and I'm sure many societies feel that way as well -- societies that are more in tune with nature).

 

But I suppose the devil's advocate question would be: "'beautiful' as in 'wise, on-the-inside beauty', or 'beautiful', as in 'hot' beauty?" Because those would be two very different kinds of beauty.

 

Also, I've been looking at some tutorials on how to do henna at home, and I can't even imagine how you're separating out your silver streaks, when the whole process involves contorting yourself in ways that require almost acrobatics to reach around your own head, and to have eyes in the back of your head! The silver streaks are in the front more, but still -- how, with such a messy process, where the silver is mixed in with colored hair, are you managing to separate that out? Most of these techniques involve piling your whole head with mud in one lump pile, and putting wraps over your head to let it "cure" -- and then what happens to the streaks you're trying to keep out?

 

Just getting even coverage with henna seems like a nightmare shot in the dark requiring a painstaking learning curve, let alone being able to separate portions of your hair -- unless you have special hairdressing skills and instruments?

[nutbrownhare]

The Saga of the Silver Streaks or How to Be Cruella

 

The isolation of these little fellas would be nigh on impossible if they WEREN'T at the front, granted, but it started with one in particular, right at the very front, which wasn't just silver but in a quite definite stripe. It also grew faster than most of the rest of my hair, was slightly resistant to taking up the dye and had almost permanent silver roots showing.

 

I'd just pull this one away before I started the henna/indigo process, cover it with vaseline and then in a bit of foil to keep it away from the rest of my hair, and carry on as usual. I use cling film over the mess on my head, and the little foil bit would just poke cheekily out from the front. These days I just comb the front 3/4 of an inch from my centre parting to my ears - this takes in the aforementioned 'widow's lock' plus the silver streaks from around my temples, put them into two plaits and henna the rest as usual, taking care not to get it on the plaits (which are, of course, pointing forwards and away from the general mess.)

 

A few tips, though... the first time you do this, get a friend to help you if you can; if not with the whole process, just to check that you've covered the back bits. Of course, anything I do now is covering up roots and therefore a lot less hassle. Secondly, as long as your hair's covered, you don't need to use masses and masses of the stuff to do the trick. You just get your hands in there and squidge it through your hair after you've done all the stuff with the partings etc. I'd been henna-ing my hair for years before the grey started appearing, rather than starting from scratch, which did make it somewhat easier.

 

The other thing to think about is the colour of the silver hairs mixed in with the rest of your hair. They will go bright orange; if this suits your colouring generally and you're happy with them, they're great. However, I found that after a while it was just a bit too insistent, which is when I started adding indigo to the mix. My hair's naturally very dark, so a few darker areas wouldn't make any difference, but if you want to be certain then it's a good idea to do a strand test - though, I have to say, I've never bothered.

 

The other thing is - use your henna on dry hair. It's much easier to control where it goes if you do it that way, and having used both methods over the years I'd say that this is easier. The other thing is, they'll tell you to mix the henna twelve hours in advance, mix it with lemon juice and all sorts of fancy things... actually, all you need to is mix it with boiling water, let it stand until it's cool enough to put on your scalp without you leaping 6' in the air, and it works fine. If you're adding the indigo, it can just go in at the same time.

 

Another tip... this is a very messy, undignified process. If someone you fancy rings on your doorbell, simply tell him you're not in. You don't want someone seeing you like this unless they know you very, very well .

 

Hope this helps! xxx

[Coily]

Style really depends on the woman's face, now I do typically go for the 1920s flapper haircuts on women; which looks good on older women too. Usually the cuts that frame the face down to the jaw line.

 

Also I am fond of shoulder length, think of Agent 99 from Get Smart or maybe Veronica Lake wavy styles

[tiredofvampires]

I love this post, NBH, and the reference to Cruella!! Ha, how perfect!

 

Thank you for taking so much time and the labor of love to describe this obnoxiously messy and skill-requiring process -- which I already have a bit of experience with (though not good, when I've tried mini home experiments!) I did a strand test once with a henna kit, by putting the mixture in a front strand, wrapping it in plastic wrap, and letting it cure for 3 hours -- washed it out and NOTHING looked different! It just looked mildly sallow.

 

I'm really glad to know you don't need "masses and masses of the stuff" -- because when I got it done professionally, I ended up with a beehive of mud on my head that was probably at least 7 pounds-worth of weight. She told me that for the indigo to darken my hair (to offset the red of the henna) to the shade I wanted (a dark chestnut brown), I'd have to keep it on for 4.5 - 5 hours! So I left the salon with a shower cap on, hastened to my car feeling pretty self-conscious, and had a helluva hard time driving home because I could barely turn my head with the added weight. I felt like Atlas, holding up the world! I pretty much had to immobilize myself at home so as not to strain my neck turning my head, but I got a massive headache anyway. So it was a physical endurance test. I'm sure if I had shorter hair, it would've been less bulked up, but I just was in awe of anyone who would do this regularly. I don't think I could ever repeat that. So that put the fear into me. But I've felt really intimidated about doing it myself because it looks complicated, and I've been wondering how I'd get good coverage and color that I really want.

 

So thank you so much for simplifying it for me! Great tricks about separating the silver streaks...I heard that metal does not react well with henna, so I guess you'd have to keep the foil far away from the rest.

 

Yeah, I have heard all that about the waiting 12 hours, adding lemon juice (or apple cider vinegar), black tea, even oil (for helping remove the gritty bits in the shower)...and I wondered if all that is necessary to really get a good result. Have you ever done all that to compare? I'm glad to know you feel the result works without it all, though! I am all about EASY!

 

I'm not sure I'd be okay with bright orange though....if it was brilliant copper (as highlights -- my ideal color would be rich, dark brown with auburn highlights), I'd enjoy that, but ORANGE, no...

 

I have a few questions:

 

1. How do you handle removing the extreme amount of grit from your hair in the shower? Seem like no amount of washing it out really got it all out in one shot.

 

2. How do you cover your whole head neatly with plastic wrap? That seems very difficult, especially since you can't see the back and if you've covered it well enough. Not to mention the contours of the head are not straightforward and flat, like saran wrap, so it seems it would be falling off or open in places.

 

3. So how often do you do the full head of henna? Do you just keep tending the roots growing in, so you never really need to bother with the whole head anymore? That sounds ideal! (but hard to do for hairs in the back, and other places hard to see regrowth). What's your routine?

 

4. Do you use a paintbrush for any of this? (I've seen that a lot on tutorials)

 

Thank you again for the wonderful intro to henna and indigo basics.

 

xx

[nutbrownhare]

Hehehe...

 

Pure henna doesn't react at all with metal, so no worries on that score; perhaps commercially ready-mixed stuff which contains chemicals might, but the henna on its own is no trouble at all re: foil, mixing with metal spoons etc.

 

The indigo does build up with time, as does the henna, but I've found that the indigo will do its job within 1.5 hours. I keep it on for 4 hours to get the redness from the henna, or it tends to look rather flat I find. Of course this is a very personal thing and you may need to try it out. As long as you've got enough to cover your hair, you don't need enough to cover an entire field as well. My hair's 22" long and I can still hold up my head without a neck brace when I've got the stuff on! It takes more than one go for the henna to turn your hair bright orange anyway, and grey hairs are more resistant to dye than the ones which still have their colour.

 

Of course, with less of the mixture on, it doesn't take so long to rinse out. My shower is over the bath, so I just kneel by the side of the bath with the spray head and just let it do its thing.

 

With the plastic wrap, I do it in several pieces, the first one being big enuff to go right the way round my head, and the other bits to fill any gaps. You can feel it on the back of your neck, so you don't need to see it. Then to be on the safe side I cover the whole lot with a plastic bag.

 

I do my henna/indigo thing about every six weeks, or when I'm getting fed up with the roots. Because I've got definite silver streaks, the roots don't seem to be as obvious, i.e. people ASK if I dye my hair, because they're not sure. I squidge a perfunctory amount through the rest of my hair, apart from the first couple of inches (which I cover all over), but that's the last bit I get to and I'm not particularly bothered about the longer bits. Where I live, right on the coast, there's a lot of sun and it tends to bleach your hair differentially anyway.

 

I've tried with paint brushes, I really have. For about 2 minutes. Then I think '**** this for a game of soldiers!' and revert to applying it with my (gloved) hands. The people on those tutorials are just showing off.

 

I've never tried the 12 hours, mixing with lemon or whatever, but I did read something written on a forum somewhere by a girl who'd tried both methods and reckoned they worked equally well. I like simplicity in my life!

 

Hope this helps, but do feel free to ask any more questions!

[Unreasonable]

For me, hair color is pretty much the number 1 factor in how old a person looks.

 

There gets a certain age where "you ain't fooling nobody", but I find that is easily in your 50's if not later. I find, nowadays, that if people take care of themselves, don't smoke, stay out of the sun, etc., they don't really have the kind of wrinkles and stuff that a lot 40 year olds had a few decades ago. I think we're just more aware. I think that's why they say things now like 40 is the new 30, etc. So, if you're one of those people, hair is going to be the number one indicator.

 

Now, I'm a man, 42. I got very lucky in the hair department. Full head, with only a few gray hairs. I get constantly mistaken for early 30s. People are shocked that I'm younger than my manager who is 2 years younger than me, and is pretty much fully gray.

 

I know a woman that went fully gray by her 30's and dyed it. She recently started letting it grow out, and it REALLY aged her. Somebody must have said something because she dyed it back (she's nearly 50 now). Looks like she's in her 30's.

 

Again, there's a double standard, men with gray hair are called "distinguished" and "silver foxes" when their hair goes gray, but still, it undeniably makes a difference.

[tiredofvampires]

NBH, thank you so much for answering all these mincey questions, that's all so helpful and informative! This really is an art, I think...

 

I had to laugh about what you said with the paintbrush!

 

I would think it would really help though just to jam the stuff onto your roots if you were being minimal, no?

 

Interesting, what you're saying about the metal having no reaction with the henna, because all these sites and tutorials I've seen, and also the package insert to the henna powder I've tried at home (not getting far, as I did), say not to use metal implements -- mixing bowls, or spoons, because there's some chemical reaction that will ruin the color. And all these have been PURE henna plant stuff, no other ingredients added.

 

I don't know if you've ever heard of Morrocan Method? I've checked out their website over the years...apparently, this master hairstylist who has worked on famous people...evolved his philosophy to be pure and natural, and has this complete line of organic, vegan, wild-crafted henna products and a full line of hair care products. He's definitely on the New Agey side, which I don't always find as appealing as he makes it, haha. How to cut your hair according to cycles of the moon, Ayurvedic and yin/yang principles applied to his ingredients, all kinds of exotic botanical concoctions...it just makes it all seem so wholesome and luxuriant and earthy, which is quite provocative. (But they make a big deal out of not using metal things with the henna preparation...hmm.) Anyway, he has a number of vids, including how to apply the henna step by step, and the woman who demonstrates on there does it from preparation through finish with a full face of makeup, wearing nice, neat clothes, OVER A WHITE SHAG RUG IN THE BATHROOM! , with a white-orange tabby cat standing at her ankles -- and all she gets is a small drip on one shoulder of the mixture. Granted, she doesn't have long hair like us, she has short curly hair no longer than the nape of her neck, so that makes it easier to manage. But she uses the paint brush to start, sweeping in all towards the center by doing all the edges first, then she fills in the rest of her head by squishing it in with her fingers. She removes the gloves and then with her bare hands pops two plastic caps over her head immaculately, then puts a stylist cap over it to go out in public, which hides that anything is going on underneath. She just makes it look so easy!!

 

Her hair turns out this deep brown. But she only leaves it on for about 2 hours. Does that seem too short to you, to get a dark color?

 

She also lets a few silvery "highlights" show through, though.

 

And she points out that the difference between henna dyeing and synthetic chemical dyes is that -- and this is what I observed when I got it that once professionally -- henna FADES over time in a way that hair dye doesn't. Hair dye is like painting your hair, and the paint just stays the same as the hair grows out, so you can see that hard demarcation of where the grey roots start and where the paint starts, as it grows out. It's just a lot harsher line. With henna, it just slowly gets less pronounced and it blends in a little more and so you'll never see that clear line where the roots start. It'll looks more like natural tints and variations in the color of your hair.

 

They make the point on that site that hair dye is basically not at all like real hair color -- real hair has many hundreds of shades and tones on one head. I know people can get a very natural look with chemical hair dyes...but it's a lot more subtle the way henna achieves that and grows out, which I like.

 

So when six weeks rolls around, are you doing the full head? Or just doing root touch-ups as they come in?

 

It would be great if you could just keep treating the hair as it comes in, and never have to do the pain in the arse of the whole head again! I guess it doesn't work like that.

 

I actually had this thought that since you can mostly see the silver when I pull my hair into a ponytail, why not just put my hair in a ponytail, slap the henna accross my head while it's like that, put the plastic on, and whatever hairs it hits, those will be the ones dyed, and that's all that really matters.

 

LOL, is that totally lazy or what??

[tiredofvampires]

For me, hair color is pretty much the number 1 factor in how old a person looks.

 

There gets a certain age where "you ain't fooling nobody", but I find that is easily in your 50's if not later. I find, nowadays, that if people take care of themselves, don't smoke, stay out of the sun, etc., they don't really have the kind of wrinkles and stuff that a lot 40 year olds had a few decades ago. I think we're just more aware. I think that's why they say things now like 40 is the new 30, etc. So, if you're one of those people, hair is going to be the number one indicator.

 

Yes, but here's the question: does looking older necessarily mean looking WORSE? Is that really synonymous? Think about the fact that some people are more attractive than some others who are younger -- not just "good-looking for their age", but just blessed with more attractive features, period. (We even see some celebrities who have aged so well, they may look better now than they did -- Tom Cruise, I'm looking at you).

 

Also, if a woman's other features look younger or at least not "old", could grey hair actually have any appeal of its own or be suitable?

 

Here are a few examples to consider (tried to pick women of different ages/looks).

 

How much does the grey detract on these women, all things considered?

 

Does it add age in all cases?

 

Are these women "not hot" where they would be if they colored their hair? Would all of them look automatically better if they colored their hair?

 

(this is a good example of how attire and ornaments can pick up the grey/silver and look cool, imo):

image removed

 

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image removed (I'm nowhere near this grey, but this is a lot like how I wear my hair when it's down...she even looks just reminiscently like me, but with more styled eyebrows)

 

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(don't know why I can't delete that attachment, below ...)

[tiredofvampires]

I'm not sure this is natural (like the 2nd one above, which looks more like a natural grey pattern, though that could be a good fake as well)...it looks like a salon job to me, as highlights...but to me, this doesn't make her look a day older...just oddly trendy.

 

image removed

[tiredofvampires]

Style really depends on the woman's face, now I do typically go for the 1920s flapper haircuts on women; which looks good on older women too. Usually the cuts that frame the face down to the jaw line.

 

Also I am fond of shoulder length, think of Agent 99 from Get Smart or maybe Veronica Lake wavy styles

 

Thanks for the clarification, Coily.

 

So you like these kinds of bobs, and think the grey looks good with them?

 

image removed

 

And I'm SOOO glad you mentioned Agent 99, because I found this pic in a search:

 

image removed

 

And that is EXACTLY how I want my hair cut!! I've looked high and low for similar pics with that particular shaping, in image searches, and I've gotten close -- but this is on the NOSE what I've been looking for, in this shot of her! O happy accident!

 

My hair's currently growing out from this cut (over a year of grown out!), but I'll be bringing in this pic this time, so it's precisely what I want to show.

 

MUAH, COILY!

 

If I had my way, that's the exact color I'd want, too...if I don't stay with the silver....that has been the color of my hair, naturally (though she has a lot less frizzies than I do...)...I'm sure if I mention that to my stylist, he'll go all nazi as per usual on me, though, about why mine doesn't have that sleekness, and the blood, sweat, and tears I need to let, cuz I can't have nice hair at the snap of my fingers like the nonchallent, non-hair-serious lazyass I am. LOL

[tiredofvampires]

I don't know if you've ever heard of Morrocan Method?

 

Oops, I meant Morrocco Method...

[Fudgie]

I know I'm not a guy, but I really like nice grey, straight hair in women. I like the term "silver fox".

 

When I get older, I plan to at least leave SOME grey in, if I don't want to go completely grey.

 

I don't know, I just think it looks great!

[tiredofvampires]

I know I'm not a guy, but I really like nice grey, straight hair in women. I like the term "silver fox".

 

When I get older, I plan to at least leave SOME grey in, if I don't want to go completely grey.

 

I don't know, I just think it looks great!

 

Yeah, I really like the term "silver fox" too! I'm seeing so many gorgeous examples...I might have to post a few more here. For inspiration and cataloguing...

 

And how 'bout this, y'all...a book I might actually look into:

 

link removed

 

A quote:

And More! Learn what men really think about gray hair...See who is great at being gray...learn how to handle curly/frizzy/wavy grays...find out why hair goes gray and learn some of the myths surrounding it...discover why your mother’s influence may be stronger than you think...

 

Like I said, LOOKS LIKE I NEED TO GET THE BOOK, heh heh....