Iggles Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think it's an absolute given that people will evolve and change and want other things as a relationship progresses. It's built right into traditional vows. It shouldn't be taken for granted that two people will continue to share the same patterns of relating just because they've agreed to spend their time together. True. I never argued otherwise. People are constantly changing. The point I was making is that it doesn't mean making a lifetime commitment is a fool's errand. In fact a hallmark of long term relationships is growing together. If that doesn't happen, relationships fail. Marriage is not designed to "trap" people. Its a celebration of your commitment and love for each other. Sure its not for everyone and that is fine.. being "trapped" is a co-dependent mentality. The only way anyone can be truly "trapped" in a relationship is if you have a chain around their neck tying them to the bed. You always have choices if your unhappy-you can leave at any time! ^^ This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 shelty24 said: "Being "trapped" is in your head. You always have choices and freedom" I have quite a few male acquaintances/relatives who could show you what happened to their bank accounts because of divorce. I assure you, the damage is sadly non-imaginary. Yes, some of them made a choice...but it severely affected their freedom. Batya33 said: "It takes plenty of effort to get out of a live-together arrangement especially if there are kids involved. You are describing it as a trap-angle - but that's just how you see it. So if you're against commitments related to feelings then in your opinion people shouldn't become parents and people shouldn't become pet-owners either, right?" It's true, kids and living together/owning property together can definitely complicate things. That said, I'm not a "shouldn't" guy--I don't go around telling people what they "shouldn't" do. That even applies to extreme situations. If someone came to me and started talking about having an affair with someone, I still wouldn't tell them not to do it. What I can tell you, however, is that I've never been married, lived with a woman, owned property with a woman, had kids, or owned pets. I don't even have a cell phone contract. It seems to me that the OP values the concept of independence, even if she doesn't want to exercise it herself. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm the same way, really. I like knowing that certain options are there, even if I'm not going to utilize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 OP, I have a simple question for you. Do you not want to be monogamous any more?? To me, the biggest down side would be losing what is unique to monogamous one on one relationships. Sounds like your husband feels the same way; just not interested in losing out on that with you. Your relationship would change. Of that is sure. How exactly?! There are a lot of things which can not be said exactly; the situation would have to play itself out. What is for sure is you wouldn't be what you are now : fully committed to each other. People can slice it any way they want. It's simply impossible to be committed fully to one person (or thing) without excluding some other possibilities. And if a person has their fingers in multiple piles, it's impossible for them to be fully concentrating on any of them. And to speak plainly, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is how you might really miss that. It's one thing to 'not mind' him being with another woman, but the assumption seems to be there that you would still get all that you get now. You wouldn't. There would be pieces of him you wouldn't get exclusive access to any more. It's unavoidable. You might miss him. You say you are missing the jealousy gene (personally, I've got that gene). I don't think people are so different, whether it makes them jealous or not. It's not a possessive thing; it's a human thing to want something that is only ours. He won't be yours anymore...are you okay with that? I know some people truly are okay with that; they don't feel any desire to be someone's one and only. It's confusing to me though that someone who truly didn't want that would pursue marriage, or care about maintaining the bond that created that marriage in the first place. Which you seem to value very highly; the bond between you two. You'd be risking that as much as you think you might be risking it by not changing it. I'd say, even more so. People usually bond through shared experiences. You mentioned you don't want to know about it, if it were to ever come to pass, you wouldnt want to know about any other women or be part of that. So that confuses me too. He'd be bonding with other women. I wonder if your decision to ask him about this is not generated mostly by fear of maybe losing him. ? Sometimes we push people away as a way of trying to keep them close, if that makes any sense. I have some experience with that; though not at all any experience with opening up the floor to welcoming other people into the relationship. Just some thoughts. What have you been thinking since you started the thread and talked to your hubby? Any new things come to mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Nothing new has come to mind, no, although there have been some really good points made, including some of your comments, itsallgrand. I do like shared experiences. I don't necessarily feel the need to share all of then though. For example, I've never subscribed to the idea that someone else is raising my children when I send them to daycare. A lot of moms seem to think that. I feel like I'm just as much theirs and they are just as much mine, even if we aren't together 24/7. Having separate experiences doesn't break out bond, it strengthens it. Obviously not a direct comparison weigh the topic on hand but just one example of the way I see relationships. And I may not want to be with another guy but I do value independence a lot. It's the reason I am with my husband, because he never tried to change me or made me feel trapped like other guys. Also, of course I have requirements from the relationship, they just might not be aligned with another woman's requirements for hers. It doesn't mean I'm ok with disrespect, lying, betrayal... I have my standards and requirements, for sure. Unfortunately, just like Blue Spiral knows of plenty of men who were "trapped", I have met soooo many women in my moms groups and social circle who are trapped. In fact, they are the majority. They can't leave because of finances, the children, etc. Im just thankful I'm not in that kind of marriage and I feel blessed to have what I have. But that said, this isn't something I've given a whole lot more thought. It's as decision I think I've been working toward for several years an I'm very much at peace with it. I think it's just one of those things that when you finally realize you feel that way, you at once realize you've felt that way for a very log time. Being able to articulate it feels like coming home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 "What I can tell you, however, is that I've never been married, lived with a woman, owned property with a woman, had kids, or owned pets. I don't even have a cell phone contract." Right -so you're willing to accept the downsides in the name of "freedom" and independence" - of course many people who go to the unusual extremes you have are trapped in other, often very harmful ways especially since it's not obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl3asehelp Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I don't necessarily want him to develop feelings for someone else but I also don't necessarily want him to close himself to that experience just because we decided to spend our lives together. I feel like that part of you doesn't die just because you're married. I think it's one of those things you can't explain. You either get it or u don't. Sounds like maybe you shouldn't have gotten married if you see it as a death sentence. Lots of single people with kids that sleep with whoever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontiger Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Haven't read the whole thread but I wanted to share a story. Sometimes, open relationships can work but based on what I have seen IRL they rarely work out well of anyone. My friend: L The Guy: P His Wife: M L meet P in a class. He is 15 years older than her. They clicked. Long story short, he told he was married but it was an open relationship. So, L went with it. She developed strong feelings for him and he said he had developed strong feelings for her. P did not tell M about L, M was find with P sleeping with other woman but did not want him to get emotionally attached. After two years of this M found out about L. M and P went to a therapist and P told her that he wanted to work in their married (there were several other issues going on) but he was not willing to give up L. M told P that they would be getting divorced. So, if your husband develops strong feelings for someone, how would you feeling? Would you be willing to not just let him sleep with other but to have a deep, emotional attachment to them to the point where he would be unwilling to give up the other woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Sounds like maybe you shouldn't have gotten married if you see it as a death sentence. Lots of single people with kids that sleep with whoever they want. I agree with this. If you're going to "spend your life together" you have to be closed to opportunities to strike up feelings for someone else -- which may lead to ditching your original partner! OP, much of what you say sounds like people who practice polyamory. However, unlike them you want your spouse to have multiple partners and keep him as your sole partner. Thing is, your husband doesn't seem to want that. Encouraging someone to go down a path they do not want can damage your relationship. The real question is why you feel in being with just you, you are somehow holding him back or "trapping" him.. Haven't read the whole thread but I wanted to share a story. Sometimes, open relationships can work but based on what I have seen IRL they rarely work out well of anyone. Thanks for sharing. From what I've observed there are folks who are polyamorous by nature and there are folks who open their relationship up as time goes to breathe new life in their relationship. In the latter, it's usually a band-aid for other problems in the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Sounds like maybe you shouldn't have gotten married if you see it as a death sentence. Lots of single people with kids that sleep with whoever they want. I agree. If you don't want him to "feel trapped" then why did you get married in the first place? What changed? When you got married I assume you never intended it to be an open marriage from the beginning as this only seems to have come some years later. Why now and why get married in the first place if you view it as "trapping" someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl3asehelp Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I agree with this. If you're going to "spend your life together" you have to be closed to opportunities to strike up feelings for someone else -- which make lead to ditching your original partner! OP, much of what you say sounds like people who practice polyamory. However, unlike them you want your spouse to have multiple partners and keep him as your sole partner. Thing is, your husband doesn't seem to want that. Encouraging someone to go down a path they do not want can damage your relationship. The real question is why you feel in being with just you, you are somehow holding him back or "trapping" him.. It's about jealousy and insecurity. She doesn't think a man could be satisfied with her, so rather than get dumped, she'd rather take a back seat to him and stop caring for herself to make him stick around by throwing options like this at him. Probably not feeling as pretty as when they got married and had her sense of value for herself all wrapped up in her appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's about jealousy and insecurity. She doesn't think a man could be satisfied with her, so rather than get dumped, she'd rather take a back seat to him and stop caring for herself to make him stick around by throwing options like this at him. Probably not feeling as pretty as when they got married and had her sense of value for herself all wrapped up in her appearance. This sounds plausible. It's a shame because both are unattractive qualities and by indulging them it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy over time as she lowers herself in his eyes. It's tiring to continually have to prop up someone else's self esteem. It's unfair to her husband and damaging overall to their relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 ...and the personal insults continue. Without knowing what I look like or where I derive my personal sense of value in this world and in my relationship, aren't you wasting your time trying to determine those things? I look no different now than when we married, save a few wrinkles I'm sure. We met in grad school and our bond continues to be based to a large extent on our career aspirations. We are working together to start a consulting firm and we connect on so many levels - intellectual, political... He is an amazing dad and he tells me often that I'm a great wife and mom. It may be true that I have some deep, unresolved issues. My family disowned me when I left their religion and I was very much alone for years but I turned my sadness into inspiration, put myself through school. And now at the age of 32 am in line for an executive position at my company. So that's my story, since so many people kept probing, now you know a bit more about me. As far as appearances, that's so low on my list if things that give me value. I take care of my aging in-laws, I donate a chunk of my salary to charity, I practise Buddhism.... My world is so much more rich than you people are choosing to give me credit for. Please stop with the personal insults. You don't know me. I don't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 OP you have not given us one plausable reason as to why you feel this arrangment would benefit your marriage. We don't understand-we are trying to but your giving us nothing. We have given you numerous reasons why this will probably ruin your marriage even if you truly are fine with sharing him. You still have given us nothing back to back up your view Read the thread about the husband who has been cheating on his wife for 7-8 years. Its obvious that man has sooo many freaking issues. Your husband sounds healthy and normal. Do you want to change him? Turn him into something he isn't? Bring all sorts of emotional issues and baggage into your lives? That is what sex with strangers does-its just a way to escape reality, addiction, insecurity, ego boost.. or sometimes if he has an affair its to escape problems that he doesn't have the maturity or strenght to deal with. Or sometimes its the cowards way out of an unhappy marriage you seem to think your husband is unhappy just sleeping with you when most normal men are happy in a healthy normal relationship and more then satisfied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And btw your husband could be freaked out about this. I remember mentioning something about getting a new dildo to my bf. It freaked him out so much he started researching it and trying to figure out what that means for our relationship.. he was worried it may replace him. I asked him why didn't he just talk to me about how he felt and he said he didn't want to seem insecure. Men tend to hold a lot of things in and can be quite sensitive to some of the harmless things we say.. My bf is fully monogamous-we discussed other types of relationships one day when it was on the radio and I could tell hes totally against anything non-monogamous.. I know if I said to him what you said to your husband it would deeply upset him Have you and your husband ever discussed this before or was it totally random? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have given my reasons. This thread was not meant to be a comprehensive debate. The original question was clearly stated. I'm my interested in hashing out all the details of my life or my marriage on this forum, especially not in a context where I would be trying to defend myself against a worked up group of people who would be intent on twisting my words and jumping to conclusions lacking evidence or insight into my life. My previous post was intended simply to demonstrate that I am a person. I am not one dimensional and I am not just words on a screen. You guys wouldn't take like this to your sister or best friend. I may not be your sister but I'm a person. If you want to insult me, why not do it by PM where I don't have to see it. Please keep this thread at a general/intellectual/philosophical level and stick to facts or generalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 OP you have not given us one plausable reason as to why you feel this arrangment would benefit your marriage. We don't understand-we are trying to but your giving us nothing. We have given you numerous reasons why this will probably ruin your marriage even if you truly are fine with sharing him. You still have given us nothing back to back up your view I have to agree with the above. Also, there are quite a number of posts where members have asked a number of questions - all of which you have by-passed and ignored. It is hard to make any sense of things when one only gets half a story and have questions unanswered which would help people understand what is really going on here. I have a question: Is your husband cheating on you, or has he cheated on you in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ok, ask me any question. I will answer truthfully. This should be interesting, lol. Has he cheated on me? No. The first 3 years of our marriage were not real great. We were just 23 when I got pregnant. Neither of us ha any intention of starting a family that young. But it happened, we got married, he struggled a lot with the monogamy thing. I don't think he cheated but he was definitely headed there. I had enough. We almost split. He talked to a counsellor, realized he was being dumb and changed. I also grew up a lot over the years. We grew up together. The last 3.5 years have been incredible. We rarely fight, and never fight angrily. We laugh every day, all the time. Our second baby almost died and we spent 7 days with her in the NICU, never leaving her side. That's when we really realized we were soul mates. I have no desire to cheat and have never cheated. ...I'm still not sure what all this has to do with the original topic. I'm not trying to convince you guys of anything. Like I said, I never meant to start a debate. But hey, I'll play along. I have nothing to hide or prove and if I can get some insights about myself, that's awesome. Any more questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ok so are you insecure still about the time he almost cheated and fear it will happen again? Have you asked him why he struggled back then? Maybe he wasn't ready for a baby but is happy now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Is this something that would turn you on? No not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ill just add: I have not insulted you at all. I am concerned you will regret this decision and have asked you loads of qs that you havn't answered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Did he ask your permission for this?? do you still love him? I love my man and the thought of him being with someone else-i could not handle that at all. It makes me seriously doubt your love for this man No he did not ask permission. Yes, I love him. As for your other question, why not a 2 way open relationship: I would feel disgusting being with another guy. I would hate myself. I'm a strong person who does positive things. It's just not me. I have a friend who is cheating on her husband and I've lost all respect for her. I find it annoying to even respond to her texts. I think she is weak and pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you feel this way about women cheating. Why do you think its okay for men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelty24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Maybe start a thread "men how would you feel if your wife or long term gf told you that you can see/sleep with others as long as its nothing shady like picking up someone in a bar" see how they react Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine_3 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 So, if your husband develops strong feelings for someone, how would you feeling? Would you be willing to not just let him sleep with other but to have a deep, emotional attachment to them to the point where he would be unwilling to give up the other woman? Not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontiger Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not a chance. Just to clarify, are you saying that no, you would NOT want him to have a relationship with another woman he would be unwilling to give up if you asked? Just want to make sure I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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