Would you date someone with herpes?

[itsallgrand]

Even with all the info laid out in this thread, I still don't think I would feel comfortable knowingly getting sexual with someone with herpes.

 

I mean; I've been careful all my life. I know this doesn't guarantee me anything. Something could still happen. I was cheated on in a previous relationship and did not see it coming - didn't sleep with anyone else in all that time, we always used condoms while together, and I was STILL terrified sitting in the doctor's office wondering what he was going to tell me.

 

To knowingly expose myself to herpes - though not life threatening, still something which is going to change my quality of life - I don't think I would.

 

Short of abstinence, there are proven ways to manage the risks. Get to know the person you are with before sleeping with them. Use protection. Keep the number of sexual partners low. Ok; none of this is going to mean you won't get herpes. But it does sure bring down the chances.

[jenny_mcs]

 

I'm not saying go and be reckless and do whatever. Of course you should take reasonable precautions. But you can't ever prevent herpes 100%. You can't really prevent anything from happening 100%.

 

 

Right, but one reasonable way to try and prevent getting herpes is to not have sex with people you know have herpes! I mean, I guess there is a disconnect here, because that seems very logical and self-evident to me.

[justagirl2]

I actually do agree with you on this. For example, if I have nothing invested on someone, if they told me before a first date they had herpes it would probably be a big turn off. Just because I haven't really gotten to know the person and it's too soon to be able to deal with that.

 

The truth though, is that most people don't even know they carry the virus so it's more often than not something you'll never find out, or find out down the line after dating someone for a couple of months.

[itsallgrand]

Yeah but isn't this a little bit like saying "Well you are going to end up herpes anyways, so why even bother trying not to?" ?!?

 

It seems defeatist, to me. Like, meh, probably already got it.

[Fudgie]

But HSV isn't one of the regularly done STD tests, and as you see, not all doctors will do it. Plus, there is a lag between contracting the virus, and having it detectable in a test. And unless you have a camera on your SO at all times, you can't say for certain that they aren't cheating.

 

I'm not saying go and be reckless and do whatever. Of course you should take reasonable precautions. But you can't ever prevent herpes 100%. You can't really prevent anything from happening 100%.

 

How many people do you know on 3 methods of birth control?? Is that something that people do???

 

You're right, you have to ask for the test specifically. And depending on when their last partner was, you may need to repeat the test in several months, much like an AIDs test.

 

But yeah, if you're always using condoms (even for oral/fondles) along with always screening your partners and you keep your # of partners low, then yeah, your chance is maybe 99.9%. Not 100% but pretty darn close.

 

 

I think I have known....2 people. It's not common at all. I actually think it's a sign of anxiety, lol. Double methods are common and are recommended but triple? (and not just using stuff like cream, condoms, and cap together, I'm talking taking the Pill, having an IUD, AND condoms with gel!) C'mon!

 

1 girl was in college and I know she triple method'd. She was so scared of getting pregnant because she thought it would ruin her body. I didn't doubt her fear because she used 3 methods. She also did not get pregnant.

 

Now, the other 1 woman who (supposedly) used triple methods got pregnant but I really think she was lying. If she was truly using triple methods, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. She began sleeping with a married man and while he was trying to divorce his wife, she got pregnant. It was a pretty class-less situation all the way around, including her being in 3rd trimester, present in the court room during his custody battles, just showing off to the ex wife "HEY I SCREWED YOUR HUSBAND". But I think she lied because she came from a conservative family (I'm close with her family) and they were already very disappointed that she slept with a married man, let alone getting pregnant. Acting like it was a "freak of nature" was her way to take away blame.

 

But ooooh I'll tell you, when she told me, I wanted to say something so badly. One of my grandfathers was a family dr and had young girls come to him all the time, newly pregnant, and crying about "How could this have happened??! I am a virgin!" and he'd always go to the window, twist his neck to look outside and say "Where is that big star in the East? Christ is coming! You are the Virgin Mary!"

 

(yeah my grandpa was a bit of a ball buster but I like to think that's where i got it from)

[justagirl2]

I DEFINITELY want to try to avoid getting herpes. But, specially with HSV I (the cold sores), it's really hard to. You can get infected by drinking from a dirty cup on a bar. With the 90% odds, it's just not something that you can realistically protect yourself against.

 

With genital herpes, I will agree that it can be much more avoided. Specially because we have sex much less than we drink from random cups on a bar… I think for genital herpes a good idea is to use condoms and once you become exclusive/serious get tested. If the person is positive, continue with the condoms. I just don't think it's realistic to go on a date, things start to get hot and heavy and you stop and stay "wait, we have to get tested first", you know? I guess in love, life, dating… it's a gamble. There's not much to do. I'd rather stick to condoms.

[Fudgie]

Several people in this thread, including myself, have made a distinction between dating someone who on the rare occasion gets a cold sore (HSV I) and someone who has very contagious genital sores that require medication to keep under control (HSV II).

 

the 90% stat is for HSV I. Again, most people here don't have a problem with that.

 

Now if we are talking HSV 2, it's one in four. That's a lot of people but you can easily meet people who don't have HSV II.

[justagirl2]

Several people in this thread, including myself, have made a distinction between dating someone who on the rare occasion gets a cold sore (HSV I) and someone who has very contagious genital sores that require medication to keep under control (HSV II).

 

the 90% stat is for HSV I. Again, most people here don't have a problem with that.

 

Now if we are talking HSV 2, it's one in four. That's a lot of people but you can easily meet people who don't have HSV II.

 

I agree with this assessment.

 

I actually don't know anyone with HSV 2 but have friends with HSV 1 and they rarely have outbreaks. They are also very wholesome and really good catches. One of my good guy friends was kidnapped for over 50 days with his 2 brothers when he was a kid and they got HSV 1 from drinking water in dirty cups during captivity. Crazy story. He now dates one of my best girl friends who has had sex with only 2 guys in her life. They are very happy and he rarely ever gets outbreaks. When he does, once a year or so, she just doesn't kiss him for the 3-5 days the outbreak usually lasts.

[annie24]

You are right - it is under 1%. I've read some sources that say 0.6% prevalence in the US. This varies all over the world. There are countries in Africa where the incidence approaches 30%!

 

Risk factors include men who have sex with men, prostitutes and people who have sex with prostitutes, and IV drug users. African-Americans are also disproportionally affected by HIV (even heterosexuals).

 

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[annie24]

I agree with this assessment.

 

I actually don't know anyone with HSV 2 but have friends with HSV 1 and they rarely have outbreaks. They are also very wholesome and really good catches. One of my good guy friends was kidnapped for over 50 days with his 2 brothers when he was a kid and they got HSV 1 from drinking water in dirty cups during captivity. Crazy story. He now dates one of my best girl friends who has had sex with only 2 guys in her life. They are very happy and he rarely ever gets outbreaks. When he does, once a year or so, she just doesn't kiss him for the 3-5 days the outbreak usually lasts.

 

You don't know anyone who was TOLD you they have HSV 2. I can assure you that you know people with HSV2.

[justagirl2]

You don't know anyone who was TOLD you they have HSV 2. I can assure you that you know people with HSV2.

 

Yes, for sure. Haha. I know a lot of people who have admitted to having cold sores but never someone who has admitted to having HSV 2. Knowing my statistics, actually just finishing business school with a concentration in statistics, haha, 25% of my friends probably have HSV 2.

[annie24]

Researchers are working on a genital herpes vaccine. If that comes to market, I will take it for sure!

[justagirl2]

Annie - I will take it too. Gosh, I can't imagine how much that hurts. I get a lot of canker sores INSIDE my mouth when I'm stressed or bite myself and I heard they don't even hurt as much as cold sores do. Imagine having it down there? Painful.

 

Do you guys know the different between canker sores and cold sores? I get confused by it and that's why I got tested for HSV 1 when I had a canker sore that was more visible in the lip than inside the mouth. It was still a canker sore and not a cold sore though. The yellow thing without crusts.

[annie24]

good question! cold sores are caused by herpes (HSV-1). It's not really clear what causes canker sores. It could be hormonal changes, stress, UV radiation, but it's not from herpes. I get canker sores, but never cold sores.

 

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[justagirl2]

I think canker sores don't really have a crust and are not on the skin. Cold sores are normally on lips and skin around the lips while canker sores are more inside the mouth. Still SO painful though. Not contagious, as far as I know. I have them pretty often. It's not that bad but hurts a little for sure. For example, if I have too much orange juice or pineapples, I might get it as well. And after intense UV exposure for SURE I will have it, specially on the place my spot was removed from. I think basically any little cut you have on your mouth becomes a canker sore.

[tiredofvampires]

I just don't think it's realistic to go on a date, things start to get hot and heavy and you stop and stay "wait, we have to get tested first", you know?

 

Actually, I have no problem doing that. And it's gotten easier and easier over the years.

 

Then again, by the time it gets hot and heavy enough for sex to happen, generally a guy knows a lot about me, we have shared some secrets and insecurities, we have care and connection, and so it's no big deal at all to stop things, decide to take it to the next step -- which is, preparing to have exclusive sex together -- and get our tests. I'm not in high school anymore, so we're big enough to be past the "uncool" factor, and if I can claim any advantage with age, it's the ability to delay gratification and use my head, not just my hormones.

 

If my partner's response to saying I want us to get tested would be something like, "what? isn't it kind of early for that?" 1. we're not on the same page, or 2. I've really blown it.

 

I admit I haven't gone for testing beforehand every time I've been with a new person, I've taken my chances in rare situations in my life (when I was younger, mostly) -- but those were not situations I was exercising the kind of control I wanted to and meeting the standards I have. (Just to head off any misinterpretations, none of my standards are related to moral value judgments about casual sex.) The situations I strive for are the ones where I gradually ease through the bases with someone, with lots of mutual self-revelation along the way, so we each have a feeling about eachother's sexuality before it happens, and then the testing is just a natural unfoldment of discussions that have been had and issues raised.

 

It's realistic and I've certainly done it.

[Fudgie]

I am the same as TOV and have asked for testing to be done before sex. I've not had sex without testing. The only time I did was with my current boyfriend. I didn't make him get tested because I've known him for years and know for a fact that he hadn't done anything sexual with a girl before me.

 

It's much easier to ask if you don't get hot and heavy . it's one of the benefits of waiting a while to have sex.

[JA0371]

I have had a breakout of Shingles....which is an adult form of chickenpox. It's stays dormant in your system and can erupt with severe stress or trauma. One of the worse things Ive ever had. Even with that, I never let on about it. The body is certainly a strange thing sometimes.

[potd2009]

Interesting discussion, ND, thanks for starting it. My take... (as a woman who is STD-negative (incl HSV-1/2) per recent/routine testing, insists on mutual testing before becoming sexually involved with a new partner, has never had unprotected sex, does not have casual/non-monogamous sex, and does not plan to have children):

 

- Like everyone who is STD-negative, I'd prefer a partner who is fully STD-negative if possible;

- If I was dating someone whom I'd first come to know in person and already viewed as an incredible prospect, learning that they had HSV-2 or HSV-1 with serious outbreaks would not be a dealbreaker for me, but would be something I'd have to think carefully about before deciding to proceed. I would be slower to be intimate with them, as I'd want to be more certain that the relationship was likely to be long-term or lifetime, than I would be with an STD-negative partner. I would probably be more nervous about it and enjoy it less at first, too. But if I really thought there was a chance the person could be my life partner, I would proceed with caution;

- If a person I met on an online dating site disclosed their status to me before we met, I would be unlikely to meet them in person unless their profile and our exchange of messages ranked in the top 1 or 2 I've ever had (and I'm not inexperienced in online messaging/dating, so top 1-2 means 99th percentile).

 

Frankly, at every step of the way, the herpes-infected prospect would have to be extraordinary in every way above and beyond what I'd otherwise expect - both in standalone terms (as a person) and in terms of how good a fit I believed they were for me specifically - for me even to consider the prospect of an intimate relationship with them. I'd also have to feel complete trust in their honesty, responsibility, consistency in taking necessary medications, and willingness to put my physical well-being above their sexual gratification at all times. And my willingness to consider dating them would not mean I'd actually be able to follow through at the end of the day. (This is actually my view on dating an HIV positive partner as well, except that where a herpes-infected partner needs to be consistently 99th percentile-extraordinary in everything, an HIV-positive partner would need to be 99.99 percentile for me even to consider it - i.e., I'd have to be convinced that they were the one person for me - apart from their seroconversion, the best person I could ever possibly find, period. In both cases, the bar is so high that the odds that someone could ever meet it are nearly nonexistent. And even if the person was so extraordinary - and so extraordinary a fit - that I'd consider it, the odds are very high that I'd decide after considering it that it still was not worth the risk.)

 

The fact that my stance is actually more liberal than most other people's in this thread - and it's not that liberal at all - illustrates what a liability this disease is, and in turn, why those who do not have it are well within their rights to be extraordinarily cautious in limiting/eliminating their exposure to it to the extent possible.

 

Also, everything that TOV said in her post about STD testing.

[potd2009]

Also, for those interested in an extended TV portrayal of this issue, the show as Folk depicts an HIV-positive/negative male couple who ultimately get married. The negative partner first rejects the positive partner after his disclosure, partly based on significant pressure from family and friends to do so. He ultimately reverses his decision and the two get together. The show portrays a number of the considerations, precautions, and emotional ups and downs that result - although obviously they are much more serious in the HIV context than in the herpes context.

[justagirl2]

potd2009 - I think you have an interesting view.

 

But are you really comparing HIV positive and someone who have cold sores as being in the same bucket?

 

I think we should separate HSV I and 2 because as stated before, HSV 1 affects 90% of the population so chances are you might have it dormant (hence negative testing) or someone you date will most likely have it.

[tiredofvampires]

That's actually a very well-articulated way of expressing my own orientation. (The only difference for me being that I would not date someone with HIV, period. As far as I can imagine now. Unless we were to be not having sex/sharing any body fluids, so having an asexual relationship, which I don't see really ever wanting.)

 

The only problem with this mindset is that in a hypothetical situation where this would actually happen -- that someone with herpes beat out 99% of their competition -- how would you be "convinced" this would be a lasting state of affairs? How long would it take you to be convinced/sure enough that you'd found your life mate? How well would you need to know them, how many others would you have had to be with before them to feel this not only was beating out all the competition so far, but that you couldn't find someone this extraordinary without herpes if you just waited longer? So at some ARBITRARY point, you'd have to take a risk based on some vague premise of a guarantee, and there are of course no guarantees in life that any relationship would last. Figuring out what that point of "beyond a reasonable doubt" vs. just "probable" evidence that this is the right one for me would tie me in knots. In other words, how "certain" would that certainty have to be, and how would I arrive at that? I have no idea.

 

And for me to decide someone I'm with may be a lifetime partner runs into the years of an LTR, not weeks or months. So all that time, we'd basically be abstinent? Like religious couples waiting for marriage? That's not really for me, even though I can wait quite a while for sex to happen (months...not sure about years.)

 

So I just don't know how that would work out in reality, even if theoretically, I'd date someone with herpes if they were in the 99th percentile.

 

 

 

What do you mean "dormant"? If you are talking about being asymptomatic (have no signs of herpes), then that does not mean you will test negative. If you have been exposed to the virus, your body will start making antibodies to it. Those antibodies are what is tested for, and per the information in my post about testing reliability and methods, you will test positive if you've been exposed. As stated, it's not fool-proof 100% accurate in every case, but if you get the more accurate tests and don't test before your body has had time to make the antibodies (the "window period," i.e., anywhere from a ~2 weeks to ~3 months), you will likely get a positive test result if you're positive. That's regardless of your symptoms or if you've had any breakouts. So no symptoms =/= negative test results if you have the virus in you.

 

You keep talking about people dating people who have it and don't know it -- hence, why it's important to test to see if you or they DO have it. You will certainly have more information with a test than without one, provided you follow the advised testing guidelines about the timeline and get the most up-to-date types of tests.

 

STD/herpes status doesn't have to be such a mystery. The only STD they don't have any reliable test for is HPV (human papilloma virus) in men who are asymptomatic (no visible warts).

 

Also, per the info I posted, you'll see that HSV1 is more and more common now in the genital region, presenting as genital herpes.

[pl3asehelp]

ND - Let us know how the date goes! Assuming you guys line up a date.

 

Personally, I wonder about people who say they wouldn't date or have sex with someone with herpes (actually, they probably already have) with 25% of the population having it, and 90% if you count HSV-1. But then people go out and buy powerball tickets - the odds of winning are 1 in 177,000,000. It's like people fell asleep the day statistics was taught in high school.

 

What specifically do you wonder about? I don't want to risk getting herpes regardless of how common it is. I'm perfectly satisfied to limit myself to partners without herpes. If 25% of the population has it, what do you think the percentage is who got it through casual sex? Probably high. I'm already incompatible with them because they have casual sex so it doesn't seem like giving up much to me at all.

[annie24]

I know people who contracted it while in monogamous, long term relationships. To think that it's only the people who practice casual sex who get it, that's just not right.

[itsallgrand]

Also, for those interested in an extended TV portrayal of this issue, the show as Folk depicts an HIV-positive/negative male couple who ultimately get married. The negative partner first rejects the positive partner after his disclosure, partly based on significant pressure from family and friends to do so. He ultimately reverses his decision and the two get together. The show portrays a number of the considerations, precautions, and emotional ups and downs that result - although obviously they are much more serious in the HIV context than in the herpes context.

 

QAF?! I loved that show when it was on. American version. haha.