Online Dating - A Woman's Journal

[SophieGrace]

I've noticed that, too..but since I was only like that with men I didn't like, it never did me any good..lol

 

I just can't pretend to be something I'm not...if I were 20, I might try that approach..but, at 47, I don't want to seem uninterested when I am interested..I don't know, it sounds too much like game-playing to me and I'm not even sure I'd like or even appreciate a guy who would ask me out again just because I seemed 'hard to get'.

 

Read the book MM - are you willing to do that? You said you want to look at your part in why you don't often get a 2nd a date. This is an interesting perspective that comes from research done by a Harvard MBA who interviewed hundreds of men. You don't have to change anything if you don't want to - it's just information. And the book does NOT suggest you pretend to be something you are not. I just read it and solely because of your thread - because Faraday recommended it. And trust me - it's interesting fodder for thought. Come on - your current methods aren't working so what do you have to lose?

[missmarple]

I've just started reading the book...it does seem interesting.

[Batya33]

It's not about playing hard to get -about being hard to get (well not hard exactly) - it's about choosing not to overwhelm this new person accross a table with too much enthusiasm/interest/excitement. You're not being "yourself" when you act that way if you're acting that way because you're nervous/want him to like you, etc. -you're being a part of yourself that is nervous, etc and perhaps don't show that side of yourself to a stranger or someone you're newly dating. Think of it as selfish -it's selfish to overwhelm another person just because you're feeling nervous.

 

On a lesser level, at 49, I experience this when developing new friendships in a new city. Sometimes I meet someone I really click with platonically and part of me is "cool -make a plan, close the deal- people get so busy!" but how I act is open/approachable, suggesting a plan but without the overeagerness I'm feeling at that moment. I also quell the urge to overshare/be chatty especially when it comes from a stretch of solo-parenting when my husband is away. Again -not subjecting others to momentary vulnerability/insecurity. You can do this at any age if you want to reevaluate how you approach people. Please don't use age as an excuse is all I'm saying.

 

I never read that book -many years ago I read The Rules and realized I'd written large parts of it in the 1980s. I didn't agree with everything in that book, for sure.

[IAmFCA]

In my own life, i can be hard to get for many reasons, but i betray the affinity i feel for a man by sharing too much information. Example: we are apart doing our own things, and i text a pic or funny bit from my day, the way i would text a friend.

 

The man is not my friend, he hasn't earned that, and I need to keep him on probation longer before I assume he will appreciate sharing my day.

[Batya33]

In my own life, i can be hard to get for many reasons, but i betray the affinity i feel for a man by sharing too much information. Example: we are apart doing our own things, and i text a pic or funny bit from my day, the way i would text a friend.

 

The man is not my friend, he hasn't earned that, and I need to keep him on probation longer before I assume he will appreciate sharing my day.

 

Wow -I love that analogy! That really hits home with the "probation". Since we are the same age do you find that the way technology has developed has affected how much you share? Pre-texting/emailing we could, I guess, call a guy on a whim but typically we wouldn't just to tell him some random trivia or anecdote -meaning a man we just started dating. At least, that's how it was for me.

[IAmFCA]

Wow -I love that analogy! That really hits home with the "probation". Since we are the same age do you find that the way technology has developed has affected how much you share? Pre-texting/emailing we could, I guess, call a guy on a whim but typically we wouldn't just to tell him some random trivia or anecdote -meaning a man we just started dating. At least, that's how it was for me.

 

Yes, technology has changed so much. I would hardly ever call a guy BITD. If I were restless I would go outside, find something to do. If I were going to see him later, I would do something just to make sure I had something to talk about, rather than staying in all day.

 

Now with technology making it so conversations are never ending, there is nothing to talk about when we see each other. Unless, I have learned not to text.

 

The less I text, the better it is.

[Batya33]

Yes, technology has changed so much. I would hardly ever call a guy BITD. If I were restless I would go outside, find something to do. If I were going to see him later, I would do something just to make sure I had something to talk about, rather than staying in all day.

 

Now with technology making it so conversations are never ending, there is nothing to talk about when we see each other. Unless, I have learned not to text.

 

The less I text, the better it is.

 

I sometimes would tape a sign up on my mirror that said "Don't call [name of guy]". I had to remember to remove it if he was coming over.

[faraday]

I've just started reading the book...it does seem interesting.

 

At least it's an easy read .

 

I don't think it's a great book or that it's well written...but I do like that it gave examples...and it was interesting because then I would categorize my friends lol....funny how it's easier to identify those things in others than it is ourselves.

[Fudgie]

I've always been a bit aloof naturally and I feel like that has been to my advantage, considering that I have a lot of quirks that could be turn offs. I also don't dote on guys or act very flirty - that's not my Nature. I've always liked to spend a lot of time with the man I like but not "up his butt" so to speak, and I take a lot of time with family.

 

I think not texting endlessly or getting into that habit helps a lot. I don't really do that and prefer to keep things physical. When I was in LDR, the phone was better than text or IM. It gives you a pre defined time where you could really pay attention to that person. Then fill your time with other things when you're not together. I just see my family, work, work out, read, play games, etc.

[missmarple]

Re. the book, it does make some good points but I can't say I've recognised myself in any of those categories (so far - I haven't finished it yet). I've also tried to get some feedback from my friends and, guess what..everyone had something different to say..lol.

My most negative (divorced, 55) friend is convinced that it's the whole online dating thing that's to blame...that men have too many options, etc etc. My other 2 best friends, one also divorced, one happily married believe different things.

The divorced one, who is same age as myself, thinks I'm not ready to date..but we see things very different. She believes, for example, that I shouldn't keep first dates as brief as I do (1 to 2 hrs), that it gives the impression to the guy that I'm not interested.

The married one, who is 55, thinks I should give more chances to some guys, that, maybe, I'm too rigid or something.

Oh, and my best male friend (50, married) AND his wife say I'm fabulous and that men over 45 usually come from long marriages or long term relationships and just want to play the field.

So, yeah, I'm still at a loss..lol

[Fudgie]

I tend to agree with your married friend. Sometimes, yes, I think you cut off guys who ought to be cut off. Good riddance, I say. But there are a few times where it seems that you cut guys off early. Or you expect them to act a certain way that goes beyond basic manners and be culture related. Like the gift thing.

[thejigsup]

I have always been enthusiastic when I've liked a person. I call a guy if I feel like calling him, even in the beginning. I am who I am from the start. It hasn't hurt me any. I've always had luck with men. Of course, I haven't dated in almost 5 years or started a relationship in almost 20. Have human beings really changed that much? I always got, "thank God you don't play games like all the others". But maybe that is just the kind of guys I'm attracted to, confident and unafraid. if a text or phone call scares them away, good riddance!

[Batya33]

I don't think it scares them away as much as feels too much too soon especially for a guy who feels more comfortable being more of the pursuer in the beginning and the guy who tells the gal he will call her and he sees that she is unwilling to wait the few days that might take for one reason or another. Obviously for women who want to do more of the asking out or half of it even in the beginning and would not like a guy who preferred to do more, that won't work for that woman.

[SophieGrace]

I think the problem with asking your friends is that they weren't actually on the dates. The point of the book is the little things we let drop in our conversation leading up to and on the first date are clues to a man and add up to him either wanting to call for a second date, or not. And there are women who get asked out again, and again. I have several women friends who have met their long-term mates on OLD.

 

Nearly all men want a challenge - they want to believe we are a prize that they earn. I know it's frustrating, but all of my male friends express feeling this way. I have two male friends who recently broke up with their girlfriends. Both said the girls were great; they got along well, had common interests and there was attraction. When I pressed them for a concrete answer on why they ended it, they both said it was because she pursued too much and was over-eager. NOT that you do this MM - I know you don't. But it is just another piece of evidence to support the earlier quote I posted that men want to control the direction.

[annie24]

Both said the girls were great; they got along well, had common interests and there was attraction. When I pressed them for a concrete answer on why they ended it, they both said it was because she pursued too much and was over-eager. NOT that you do this MM - I know you don't. But it is just another piece of evidence to support the earlier quote I posted that men want to control the direction.

 

Well that's just stupid. Instead of having a gf who loves them, they want women who are going to play games, ignore them, or act like they don't like them. I'm going to say that these guys are not the most emotionally healthy men out there.

[missmarple]

But there are a few times where it seems that you cut guys off early. Or you expect them to act a certain way that goes beyond basic manners and be culture related. Like the gift thing.

 

Except I had never cut Mike off because of the gift thing...I had complained on here but it didn't make me cut him off.

[Batya33]

Well that's just stupid. Instead of having a gf who loves them, they want women who are going to play games, ignore them, or act like they don't like them. I'm going to say that these guys are not the most emotionally healthy men out there.

 

Depends on the degree. I think it's healthy to keep each other on your toes - not in a game playing/manipulation way but in a stimulating way. I think it's unhealthy to ignore but healthy to say "I need space right now -going for a walk, see you in about an hour". Rather than needing space but not taking space, and letting resentment grow.

[SophieGrace]

Well that's just stupid. Instead of having a gf who loves them, they want women who are going to play games, ignore them, or act like they don't like them. I'm going to say that these guys are not the most emotionally healthy men out there.

 

I should have mentioned that in those relationships the women were the initial pursuers, and the balance never shifted. The men never had the opportunity to pursue or experience the women as a prize to win or earn, so to speak, which is a phrase I hear often from men - emotionally healthy or not.

[thejigsup]

Well that's just stupid. Instead of having a gf who loves them, they want women who are going to play games, ignore them, or act like they don't like them. I'm going to say that these guys are not the most emotionally healthy men out there.

 

BINGO!!! Are men today total wimps? Sure sounds like it. When I was young, you could call a man, flirt openly, just be yourself without fear of "will that scare him away?" Utterly ridiculous! You poor women of today. Playing the games women of the 50s had to play.

[Batya33]

BINGO!!! Are men today total wimps? Sure sounds like it. When I was young, you could call a man, flirt openly, just be yourself without fear of "will that scare him away?" Utterly ridiculous! You poor women of today. Playing the games women of the 50s had to play.

 

Yes at that extreme it's silly. I dated from 1980-2005 - it was the same throughout. I was "myself" and at the same time I took notice of what made men most comfortable in dating - and I was not totally myself when I was overly excited/smitten so to "be myself" I had to make certain choices in what I did and did not do. It was hard work at times but totally worth it.

 

I knew very few women who had healthy long term relationships when they did most of the asking out or even half of the asking out in the beginning. I knew many women who had flings, casual sex and got jaded/cynical by behaving exactly as they would in their careers. Many of those women lied to themselves about wanting an "equal" relationship where they would ask out the guy as much as they were asked out -usually that revelation came when they did not get a call for another date or after they decided to have sex early on when that behavior was not being themselves but was an attempt to get the guy to be interested (I think casual sex is fine just not when one person is dishonest with themselves or the other person).

 

Some women genuinely wanted that kind of equality in dating and of course didn't date guys who dated more traditionally. I didn't define equality in romantic relationships that way. It would have been much easier for me to do more of the asking out if that had been effective -I wasn't scared to do that.

 

I flirted openly too, started conversations, etc -I'm talking more about asking out. I did not call men I was interested in in the beginning other than to return a call or call with specific info about a date. After the first couple of dates I did. I think technology changed that -pre-cell phone calling was a bigger deal because the guy knew you had to plan it far more than today, with you and he only having land lines and often no voice mail.

[Fudgie]

Except I had never cut Mike off because of the gift thing...I had complained on here but it didn't make me cut him off.

 

True, you didn't. But it's about expectations. I do think it's important to have some standards but I'm wondering if your expectations are so that you are continually disappointed by men, some of whom may actually be a good fit for you.

[missmarple]

True, you didn't. But it's about expectations. I do think it's important to have some standards but I'm wondering if your expectations are so that you are continually disappointed by men, some of whom may actually be a good fit for you.

 

Well, I may have expectations (who doesn't?) but I can tell the difference between 'I wish he had done that' and 'he didn't do that, so, it's over'...and it's not that I'm continually disappointed by men..many of the men I've gone out with I didn't even like. It's the men that I actually found interesting and who seemed to be interested in me, too, who disappoint me...because it's become a pattern. I meet a guy, I like him, he seems to like me, it all seems to be going well..poof, he disappears. That's the real problem.

[thejigsup]

It's the guys nowadays, not you. Be yourself and do what you want to do. That is the only way to find someone who likes you for you. It will take some culling, but the end prize will be worth it. For anyone who's interested, I don't know where you guys were dating, but not calling a man when I want to, and I don't mean blowing up his phone, seems completely natural to me. Telling a guy I like him seems natural, too. If I like someone, I tell them. I'm not talking making future marriage plans, just that I like them and find them attractive. I have a track record of long term relationships doing that. I never scared anyone off, just the opposite, in fact. Whatever you do, don't play games. If it isn't you, who needs it?

[Batya33]

Well, I I meet a guy, I like him, he seems to like me, it all seems to be going well..poof, he disappears. That's the real problem.

 

I still think it's a problem because of how you define "disappear" -how about assuming that the guy has not appeared in your life in any real way until you've gone out at least a couple of times- because if you don't shift the mindset it might affect your vibe/demeanor in how you interact with men you meet and are interested in. When you first meet a guy and "like" him you are liking a near stranger. When someone seems interested on a first meet it's "going well" in the sense that at that moment you're having a nice time. Nothing to do with potential for a real first date unless there is a time/place plan. If he makes a time/place plan and then doesn't follow through then yes he has "disappeared" in the sense of flaking out.

[Batya33]

It's the guys nowadays, not you. Be yourself and do what you want to do. That is the only way to find someone who likes you for you. It will take some culling, but the end prize will be worth it. For anyone who's interested, I don't know where you guys were dating, but not calling a man when I want to, and I don't mean blowing up his phone, seems completely natural to me. Telling a guy I like him seems natural, too. If I like someone, I tell them. I'm not talking making future marriage plans, just that I like them and find them attractive. I have a track record of long term relationships doing that. I never scared anyone off, just the opposite, in fact. Whatever you do, don't play games. If it isn't you, who needs it?

 

Yes, definitely show interest! I just am of the view that you let the guy do more of the asking out in the beginning. Telling someone you like them, flirting, that you appreciate the plan they suggested for the date, how fun it is to hang out - all good and often essential especially for a shyer type of person.