missmarple Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Just visited the site, Sam was online, he didn't talk to me, I didn't talk to him...and I get a message by a guy I had gone out with once...6 months ago! That did it for me. I disabled my profile on that site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Aww sorry to hear that MM. Just off that website right? Still on others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Aww sorry to hear that MM. Just off that website right? Still on others? Yes, I'm on just one now..the one that seems a bit more serious. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Awww, I hear ya sweetie - it can be soooo frustrating (hope you won't take umbrage at me calling you sweetie, haha), and I understand your disappointment. I have had some of the very same experiences as you not too long ago. I am someone who does what she says and strongly believes that a large part of integrity includes honoring your word. Yet here are all these adult guys who seem to have a different set of values. I used to think it was the city I lived in, but then I went to another state for a job last year and had a similar experience. There sure are a lot of flakes out there no matter what the country or state. I don't think Sam was a flake or lacked integrity -no evidence of that. If he never responds to her text that is impolite but no more than a stranger not saying "please" or "thank you" when he ought to. He may very well have meant his compliments and that in the future they would talk. He did not ask her out and then behave unreliably/cancel for no reason -that is flaky/lacks integrity. MM I don't think your text torpedoed it - I just advise strongly against choosing "curiosity" or your impatience over letting the guy follow up if he says "we'll talk" - not worth wondering later if the guy was on the fence and turned off by a text the morning after that could have come accross as transparently trying to convince him to call you sooner to ask you out. Certainly take a break if needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophieGrace Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Batya - I was referring to her overall experience - not specifically Sam. (hence my line "here are all these adult guys.") I was also empathizing with her feeling of disappointment when you like someone and he doesn't get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Batya - I was referring to her overall experience - not specifically Sam. (hence my line "here are all these adult guys.") I was also empathizing with her feeling of disappointment when you like someone and he doesn't get back to you. As was I. I empathize too and my strong suggestion in all these types of situations remains that dating requires a thick skin and if you want to keep your eye on the prize you have to practice distancing yourself completely unless there is a time/place plan for a next date and even if there is, one date at a time mentality. Not because I was negative, or am negative -the opposite -I was a realist who wanted to stay positive about men and dating/relationships. So the disappointment became a minor twinge if at all and that enabled me to meet the next guy ASAP. And with that mindset the temptation to send that redundant "thank you" email or the "follow up" email was vastly decreased because I knew that I could not get that attached to someone after a first meet and not in the early stages of dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Have you ever read "Have him at Hello"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 not worth wondering later if the guy was on the fence and turned off by a text the morning after that could have come accross as transparently trying to convince him to call you sooner to ask you out. I'm not wondering at all..you are..lol I never for a moment thought that he might have contacted me if I hadn't sent that text. He just did what everybody so far who had said 'we'll talk' did..except in this case he didn't just 'not contact' me but didn't even reply to my text..and that, to me, may not make him a flake but it does make him rude, even more so after all his compliments..because I can understand people deciding not to take the next step for whatever reason but I don't understand rudeness..that's what got to me...not that he didn't ask me out again. Have you ever read "Have him at Hello"? No, what is it about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Yes, it is rude, the same way it's rude for someone to cut off someone who is in line at the market, or the myriad of other things people do that are impolite - that is a rude behavior from a near stranger so I hope your reaction is to brush it off like an annoying fly. Nothing to "understand" -I did the same as him in situations where I was concerned about being harassed by the person who was emailing me so I just did the non-response to cut things off but obviously in your case he knows you wouldn't react that way. Maybe he has been harassed in the past. I get the compliment part but people who act flaky or thoughtlessly can also be very complimentary and those are different sides of them -not inconsistent. Now, if he'd told you that he always gets back to people who call him and then did this then he'd be rude and would have lied too. You've done rude things in your life too and you understand yourself -that you're in general a kind, thoughtful, caring person who sometimes does minorly rude things at least. I'm sure you know that people move on from it. The text you sent him was not urgent, did not ask him out, etc - it was some random thing. If he got the text he knows it is not urgent and he might respond at some point or he might think he did but he forgot because it's not something essential. I understand you're not wondering about your text and whether that was an issue. In general I think that works better when it comes to early impressions/first. impressions. As you wrote you "rarely" do that and there is a reason -you've posted on other threads to leave the ball in the man's court in similar situations where he said he would be in touch. Edited to add -here is an excerpt from an interview with the author of Have Him at Hello "The guy said, “The date went really well. After the date, there were some things that deflated me......A guy talked about how if a woman pursued him in any way after a good date, even subtle ways, that he started to lose interest." and "Some of those subtle ways were if the woman texted or emailed him right after the date, sometime in the next 24 to 48 hours. She followed up after she had already thanked him that night. If he had paid for dinner, she thanked him profusely. She said what a good time she had. Then, yet again, she followed up afterwards by texting or emailing." Obviously a thank you text is more transparent than what you chose to text but that's basically my point. She's just an author - obviously you can disagree with her too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
einsteins_girl Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 All of this reminds me why I don't bother dating. So much "don't do this" or "don't say that". I'm not interested in trying to figure out how I should or shouldn't behave for each guy in hopes I won't "scare him off", and I suspect MM isn't either. I think MM is right. If he liked her, the text would not make a difference. I'm sorry, MM. Dating seriously is the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Just visited the site, Sam was online, he didn't talk to me, I didn't talk to him...and I get a message by a guy I had gone out with once...6 months ago! That did it for me. I disabled my profile on that site. From my personal point of view, I don't think there was any need to do this. Personally, i hate instant messaging. I would rather get an email or a text with a question rather than IM. Plus, the fact that I am online does not mean I am free to talk. Sometimes I'm writing to someone else, or sometimes I leave my computer on and forget to sign out. i don't think you did anything wrong in texting him - if he didn't return it, I guess he is not interested. If he liked you, he would have returned it. I guess you know now where you stand with him. Better to know sooner rather than later, I guess.... Unless there was another situation that precluded him from returning your text (out of town, phone's not working, whatever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 All of this reminds me why I don't bother dating. So much "don't do this" or "don't say that". I'm not interested in trying to figure out how I should or shouldn't behave for each guy in hopes I won't "scare him off", and I suspect MM isn't either. I think MM is right. If he liked her, the text would not make a difference. I'm sorry, MM. Dating seriously is the worst. I found it pretty simple and the parts that weren't as simple were worth it for my goals of marriage and family. In general I gave the guy enough space to get to know me in a healthy way that also allowed things to go at a reasonable pace, rather than rushing things despite feeling insecure or smitten or similar. I don't think dating -especially through on line sites -is worth it at all if an LTR or marriage isn't the goal. "If he liked her" is not really the issue - sometimes it's a slam dunk - sometimes people are on the fence especially when they're meeting a lot of people and especially when it's early days. I know many happily married couples who were on the fence at first and then felt the spark later -who gave it a chance despite not knowing for sure in those early days. During that delicate getting to know you time I think it's worth it to in general let the man do more of the calling/asking unless you are sure you want a man who would not be phased by a woman asking him out some or most of the time (or sending the transparent thank you text after thanking on the date as per the excerpt of the article). It does take work and effort -just like interviewing for a job does, or developing a new platonic friendship - and sometimes it takes no work/effort - but whether the former or latter you can find a happy/healthy relationship. Why screen out those who might be a bit on the fence in those very early days - dating is hard enough without shrinking the pool unnecessarily. I wish new people were easy to figure out and that I didn't have to figure out issues of boundaries/space (as I continue to make new friends in my newish city) - but on the flip side it's kind of neat to do that kind of work and the results are worth it IMO (whether it's friendship or romantic relationship). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Batya, although I agree that a text/phonecall of the 'thank you, I had a great time' type when you've already thanked the guy in person isn't necessary, I really don't think that a text with a question about something previously discussed would 'scare away' any guy...and no matter how you put it, I do find it rude and it's something I would never do..unless I had really hated the person I had gone out with...and, in any case, it's not so much about Sam but about the fact that so many guys do what he did. I'm just sick of people disappearing, to put it plainly. After about 200 men I've met through online dating, I need time to think things through...because I can't be THAT unlucky, so, I must be doing something wrong. First I have to find what that is and then continue dating. For now, for the life of me, I can't find anything. I look good (or so people tell me..lol) and exactly like my pics, I'm always on time for dates, I'm friendly, talkative and warm as a person...and, yes, 99% of the time I never text/call first after a date..and even that I'm not sure about..if you remember Keith, it was the guy who had said that because I never contacted him after our date, he thought I wasn't interested! Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 But it's not disappearing. He said vaguely "we'll talk" which I've heard a hundred times from all sorts of people - and I don't take it literally. I am with you -he should reply to your text and it is rude just like I wrote above. Please don't let that get to you just like you don't let the rude people at the market get to you. He's not disappearing because he never appeared. He's a near-stranger you met once who had a nice time with you and decided he didn't see potential. Nothing to take personally. I have heard the silly and lame "You didn't call so I thought you weren't interested" -most of the time it's a lame excuse. With rare exception it means the person has major issues if he needs to hear from the woman just so he can determine whether she's interested enough to meet for a meal. Please. A good friend of mine went on 400 first meets before he met his wife on line - absolutely nothing wrong with him -to the contrary - his wife is lovely from all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Yes, I know it can take time...but 400 first meets? I don't think I can wait that long...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 if you remember Keith, it was the guy who had said that because I never contacted him after our date, he thought I wasn't interested! Go figure. because men are different. some are confident, and others need some kind of signal that it's ok to pursue. Some men have confidence issues. Others had their last gf pursue them so they think that's the better strategy. There's no one size-fits-all approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 because men are different. some are confident, and others need some kind of signal that it's ok to pursue. Some men have confidence issues. Others had their last gf pursue them so they think that's the better strategy. There's no one size-fits-all approach. That is true but also women are different. For some women it's a turn-on to be with an insecure guy and be the one to build him up and then that woman gets to be in control of the relationship. And vice versa and everything in between. Most women I knew and knew of (myself included) wanted to be with a guy who was more comfortable doing more of the calling/asking out in the beginning even if in our careers we made all those types of first moves. Some of those women lost patience and called men/asked them out a lot in the name of "feminism" and "because I'm take charge in other aspects of my life" but weren't honest with themselves that that didn't work for them when it came down to it - those women often became jaded/cynical when men didn't respond well. MM I think you're doing everything right with very rare exception. I think Sam was not an exception - most likely he decided before he received your text that he did not see potential. I think sometimes you get in your own way with inconsistent pickiness. But we all did/do some of that. Definitely take a break and regroup but I hope it's just a break - then get back in there if you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 That is true but also women are different. For some women it's a turn-on to be with an insecure guy and be the one to build him up and then that woman gets to be in control of the relationship. And vice versa and everything in between. yup.... which is why it's not easy to find the right match!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophieGrace Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I started reading the book Faraday mentioned, "Have him at hello" (I think Batya may have read it too.) The author, a woman MBA who went to Harvard, talks to 1,000 men to research what inspires a man to want a second date and eventually fall in love, and what makes him never call back. I think you'd find it intriguing MM, especially given your recent post expressing interest in looking at whether there's something you can do differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The best thing I got from that book was about the exit interviews. I started doing my own....because I found that while most men wanted to see me for a second date, on the rare occasion that *I* liked a match, they weren't interested in seeing me again. So I called a few of those guys....and they gave me insight. It was good. It changed my "luck." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The best thing I got from that book was about the exit interviews. I started doing my own....because I found that while most men wanted to see me for a second date, on the rare occasion that *I* liked a match, they weren't interested in seeing me again. So I called a few of those guys....and they gave me insight. It was good. It changed my "luck." Did they tell you thinks you were surprised to hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Did they tell you thinks you were surprised to hear? Yes. Apparently I showed too much enthusiasm when I met a guy I liked. I mean...I liked so few of the people I met...so when I liked one, I got excited. Apparently to someone that doesn't know me, I seemed like I wasn't qualifying...they thought I liked everyone. Apathy towards the ones I liked played out much better in the beginning of dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Yes. Apparently I showed too much enthusiasm when I met a guy I liked. I mean...I liked so few of the people I met...so when I liked one, I got excited. Apparently to someone that doesn't know me, I seemed like I wasn't qualifying...they thought I liked everyone. Apathy towards the ones I liked played out much better in the beginning of dating. Aka playing hard to get, hahaha... Not to the full extent but you know what I mean - not being too keen and keep them guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophieGrace Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Yes. Apparently I showed too much enthusiasm when I met a guy I liked. I mean...I liked so few of the people I met...so when I liked one, I got excited. Apparently to someone that doesn't know me, I seemed like I wasn't qualifying...they thought I liked everyone. Apathy towards the ones I liked played out much better in the beginning of dating. I think she called that paradigm "Woman OverBoard". As she writes, "Some women go overboard thinking a first date is more than it is. They might feel too close too soon which can emerge in the smallest of ways." Then she goes on to list a bunch of real life examples with different versions of that. It could be referencing a future date that doesn't yet exist or sniffing for reassurance that the feelings are mutual (or being too enthusiastic too early on.) I may come accross more as what she calls "the boss lady" where a woman appears so independent she needs no one, though I'd like to think I'm not as overboard as the examples the author gives, but I did recognize myself in some of her questions. One thing I took away from the book is how key it is to get to the second date because things do change as we get to know someone - both their view of us and ours of them. On the first few dates he is looking for subtle deal-breakers, and we may be too. But the truth is we have all met someone we have thought we wouldn't be attracted to, but, over a bit of time in a natural setting like the workplace or school, it turned out we were. As we get to know someone, whatever those initial deal breakers might look like dissipate because we see the full person. Her point is that getting to a second a date, and a third, allows us to make that choice. I read somewhere that "Women control the depth of the relationship; men control the direction." We women like to communicate, and revealing ourselves is a part of bonding for us, and I don't think we always realize what we are actually revealing on first dates in our communication. This book is an interesting take on men's views of what we are saying by what we don't say... and what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Apathy towards the ones I liked played out much better in the beginning of dating. I've noticed that, too..but since I was only like that with men I didn't like, it never did me any good..lol I just can't pretend to be something I'm not...if I were 20, I might try that approach..but, at 47, I don't want to seem uninterested when I am interested..I don't know, it sounds too much like game-playing to me and I'm not even sure I'd like or even appreciate a guy who would ask me out again just because I seemed 'hard to get'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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