annie24 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 If someone at his age can't figure out how RUDE it is to ask a stranger to call him before 7am in the morning, it's not for me to tell him different. The sweetheart comment was just the icing on the cake. Im wondering why he would even want someone to call him at 6 AM??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDallas40 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Im wondering why he would even want someone to call him at 6 AM??? So he can take the call while he's out on his morning walk and the wife is still asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 So he can take the call while he's out on his morning walk and the wife is still asleep. Exactly what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 The second date with Anhel was as good as the first one although I learned some new things about him, some not so good. For example, he told me he had been cheating on his wife during the last 4-5 years of their marriage. He said she knew and didn't care, that he also wouldn't care if she cheated on him and that they were only staying together until they could split their money/houses/etc..but who knows if it's the truth? Again, he had many interesting things to talk about and asked me some interesting things, too...things that I don't often get asked. It seems like he's a deep thinker and he's an excellent conversationalist, too. We talked a lot about food from all over the world (places he's been to and I haven't) and he said he'd like to cook for me some time, preferably French food (because I said I don't like it and he said I'd like his). He said he wants to see me again but when I asked when he's free, he got confused and had to check his organiser. Eventually, he said he'll call me on Thursday because he 'thinks' he's free on Friday but something may come up because some friends may visit him from abroad. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Sounds like it's going well except I don't know what to make of the cheating thing.. I suppose he didn't have to tell you all that so at least he's honest lol.. What are your thoughts on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yes I think the cheating part was oversharing for a first date so the question is why -was he buzzed/drunk when he spilled all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDallas40 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Hey that second date sounds great! Hope it continues along these lines As for the cheating thing, I think it's ok that he revealed it, and doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a repeat offender. FWIW, I was faithful to my wife for 15 years in a sexless marriage, but cheated on her multiple times in our 16th year without her knowledge, which is what made me realize it was time for a divorce. I haven't cheated on any partners since, and wouldn't do it again. So perhaps ANHEL is the same way, and just wanted to be honest up-front. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't think it's about being honest but about what he chooses to share. I don't think MM asked about his fidelity to his wife. Certainly reveals information about his values and his character -both the cheating and how/when he chose to share this with MM. Typically when a person shares something that negative that early on it's not a great sign for another date happening and more rarely the person is just one of those self-sabotaging types. Edited to add -if she knew and didn't care isn't what he's really explaining is that he had an open marriage with her -that doesn't really sound like cheating if she knew and basically consented (and did the same). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realitynut Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Just wanted to mention something i just noticed!!! ND40 and MM were next to each other in the journals....and they're both are on page 354! lol....just thought that was funny! Yeah, yeah...I read but don't post. Live vicariously through you both! I'm hidden on both OKC and POF. ugh Good Luck you Guys! I'm an oversharer....and would probably tell someone i cheated. But maybe not on a first date. I too was in a sexless marriage. No sex for 15 years...cuz I didn't love him. So I will blab.....I don't feel that bad about it....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 About the cheating thing, I asked him why he got divorced. He said they had stopped loving eachother for the last 5 years or so of their marriage and that they had stopped sleeping together and were only staying together until they could split all their assets. Actually, I asked him if they had other relationships during that time and he said he did during his trips and he imagined she did, too, but they never actually told each other they were cheating..he just assumed she knew and didn't care because, from what he said, he wasn't hiding anything (phonecalls, emails, etc). Then, he asked me if I've ever cheated on anyone. I told him I hadn't and that when a relationship was over, I left before I felt inclined to cheat. He said he is the same but that he couldn't just get up and leave because of the kids and all the financial issues between them. For now, I feel neither well nor bad about it. I've never had kids (or that many assets..lol), so, I can't really judge him. Of course, this is his side of the story, I don't know what his ex wife's story would be like. But, for now, I'm just making a mental note of it and moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 It's not about judging. It's about evaluating whether his values are compatible with yours for the purpose of dating with potential for a long term relationship. We all do those evaluations in one way or another to find good matches. If he told you he robbed a bank because he was poor would you keep dating him because "well I never was that poor so I can't judge him for robbing a bank". I know many people with children and assets who don't cheat -they at least separate/legally separate and keep parenting their kids and they prioritize doing the right thing as far as not cheating above the financial issues (and when it comes to financial issues that is what attorneys are for I'd suspect). Of course he could have made the choice to leave and also maintain his relationship with his kids. Cheating was easier and more fun -then he got to play at being married, not have to pay lawyers to preserve his finances, and get sex on the side without having to commit. If you do decide to evaluate think about what kind of example that is for the kids were they to find out (or if they already know?). You might feel totally fine about his choices once you evaluate -and that's of course fine - we all have our dealbreakers/boundaries, etc. I'm sure you will consider that if you got involved with him where you owned property or other complex finances that he might cheat rather than end things given his priority to preserve his assets. Or you might believe that he wouldn't do that ever again including to you. But certainly I'd do the evaluation and not worry a bit whether it's "judging" because this involves a potential romantic relationship, not whether he's someone you'd grab a drink with as friends once a month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 I also know people who don't cheat and people who cheated in one relationship but not in others and people who have cheated in every single relationship they were in...etc etc etc. If he told me that he believes 'everyone cheats' or something like that, then, yes I would consider our values incompatible. But I don't know what I would have done and how I would have handled things if I had been married for years, had young kids and a lot of financial issues to solve before I got a divorce. One thing I've learned in my life is never say never...that's why I said I can't judge him. I would if I was absolutely sure that I would never, under any circumstances, cheat..and I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I also know people who don't cheat and people who cheated in one relationship but not in others and people who have cheated in every single relationship they were in...etc etc etc. If he told me that he believes 'everyone cheats' or something like that, then, yes I would consider our values incompatible. But I don't know what I would have done and how I would have handled things if I had been married for years, had young kids and a lot of financial issues to solve before I got a divorce. One thing I've learned in my life is never say never...that's why I said I can't judge him. I would if I was absolutely sure that I would never, under any circumstances, cheat..and I'm not. Even if you can "never say never" it need not be as black and white at that. You can evaluate whether his particular attitude- his particular way of balancing values of morality v. money, of cheating v. fidelity -are compatible with yours for purposes of a romantic relationship that involves trust of a significant degree. You need not conclude "well since I could see myself cheating under certain circumstances then I cannot judge that he cheated" -I think you have to get far more specific than that. Of course he didn't say he believes in cheating or that cheating is ok -even people who cheat likely wouldn't say that. Don't dodge the issue of compatible values by making excuses like "Oh.... I can't judge- you can never say never!" Certainly if you conclude that you would cheat rather than face serious financial issues then you two have compatible values -or that cheating is ok if you don't try to hide it even if you don't actually tell the other person (and if he did obviously it probably wouldn't be cheating in other than I guess a hypertechnical sense). And it need not be judging "I am not judging you -I might do the same thing under the same circumstances -never say never -but when it comes to getting involved with you romantically I don't want to be in a situation where I am concerned that you would choose financial issues over fidelity even if hypothetically I might do the same. I am happy to stay in touch as acquaintances or friends but I don't think we're a good match romantically". Again I am not trying to tell you what to conclude just that your way of evaluating it is far too dismissive and broad-brushed - and maybe that's because you're really into him. It's interesting too -you've written that under the same circumstances you would "never" call a person from a dating site when they told you they weren't available because you would remember their schedule - you've gone far enough to that "never" to defend your beliefs about what is rude and not rude behavior. You're willing to do that when it comes to your standards of manners even though you haven't been in the same situation (i.e. someone who tell you exactly when they nap, when their cell is on and off, when their working hours are in particular) -and you said you hadn't but you insisted you knew how you would react. You're willing to do that about calling and other values of what you called manners and respect -you said those were so important to you -why not be willing to consider how your values would play into a failing marriage involving complex issues? People do that all the time -and you did the same thing when it came to manners situations. Again even if you still conclude "never say never" you don't have to get that far at all to decided you are not going to judge him AND despite not judging him, that his values are not compatible with yours. Just consider it. I see this as a potential example of you dismissing this kind of information too fast because he is charming and cute. We've all done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 No, Batya, it has nothing to do with how cute and charming I think he is..he's not that cute, anyway...I mean he looks nice but that's all. We've had this convo before about a guy I had only talked on the phone with and he had told me he had cheated on his ex wife before they got divorced. And, again, we had disagreed. I'm not 'dismissing' anything...as I said, I'm keeping a mental note of it..but it's not enough reason for me to stop seeing someone just because at some bad point in his life he had cheated on someone. He told me that was the only period in his life when he cheated on anyone..and, sure, he could be lying but, on the other hand, he could have just not mentioned cheating at all or told me that, no, he had never cheated. I won't hold his honesty against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 That's fine if his values are compatible with yours. He's telling you that at that point in his life it was more important to get to have sex with another woman/women and cheat than it was to wait until he could separate or divorce (and in addition the financial issues). You believe that he told you this because it was a one time thing and even if things got bad again he would choose to leave the relationship first before having sex outside the marriage. Some say that past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior but you seem secure that he would not do this again or that if he did you would understood if he told you "things were bad between us and I couldn't think of leaving but I couldn't resist that other woman, sorry honey!". I was just questioning your evaluation process and your insistence on "not judging". And no you wouldn't "be holding his honesty against him" if you declined to date him. You could thank him for his honesty and tell him that you're not ok with it so this way you won't waste his time. Nothing to do with penalizing him for sharing the details of his adultery and why he chose to cheat. Again I just questioned your process -obviously you can tell what I would do but what I would do is irrelevant (meaning the conclusion I would draw -I was just questioning your process). 10 years ago I went on 4 dates with a lovely guy who was a former drug addict and alcoholic -had been clean for 6 years I think. He was very forthcoming about the details of that time. He was also forthcoming about his current values about drinking/drugs (despite being sober). I really appreciated his honesty. I also realized that among other things I did not feel totally comfortable that he would remain clean and sober based on some very honest things he shared. I ended things after 4 dates (I did not tell him that that factored in to my decision -no need to share that). If I "penalized" him for being "honest" - well I disagree but even if so, far worse for me to stick with him because "well to judge his past behavior given how honest he was would be penalizing him so I need to continue to date him and hope that he stays sober once we're serious and enmeshed in each other's lives". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Some say that past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior but you seem secure that he would not do this again or that if he did you would understood if he told you "things were bad between us and I couldn't think of leaving but I couldn't resist that other woman, sorry honey!". I don't feel 'secure' about anything...I hardly know the guy! All I can do at this point is appreciate his honesty and decide whether I'm ok with dating someone who's cheated before or not...and because, as I said, in my opinion, cheating is not something black and white and it depends on a lot of things, I'm ok with what he's told me so far. As for the past behaviour being an indicator etc, yes, it's true in some cases but not in all cases. I'm nothing like I was in my 20s or even in my 30s and I can think of some people who knew me back then who'd be very surprised at how different I am these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, again it's up to you how you resolve what he told you. I was questioning your reasoning of "oh I can't judge!" and "I can't penalize him for his honesty!". From a cynical point of view I think his "honesty"-the way he shared all the details -is self-serving. He wants you to know up front that these are his values and this is who he is right now so that you can't object later on if he repeats the behavior (and it sounds like this didn't happen in his 20s). I am assuming he is not lying about any of this because I agree that you can give him the benefit of the doubt. Since he was honest that it was actually cheating -he never told her directly he wanted an open marriage - it's probably true that he didn't actively try to conceal it. And it's against his best interest of course to tell you he thought it was more important to have intercourse with other women than to first leave and wait to have intercourse until he was out of the marriage. The good thing is that you're not going to have children or adopt them with this person so all you'd be risking is a higher risk of STDs based on his past choices and higher financial risks if you combined finances or owned property together. Since you are comfortable with his reasons for cheating the emotional risk to you probably is the same since you obviously have eyes wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 New guy I first talked to on the site today. Steven is 54, an economist, divorced for 22 years, no kids and he's ok looking (he did tell me he looks better in person..lol). He's 5'10, brown hair (lots of it!) and eyes and a bit on the fat side..at least, that's what he looks like in his pics. We had a nice chat online, he has a good sense of humour and seems to be very open. He lives close to me, too, and works even closer. He asked if I'd like to talk on the phone, so, we exchanged phone numbers and he's going to call me in the afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Sounds interesting including his career! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Steven called and we talked for about half an hour. He has a very loud voice that wasn't particularly pleasant to my ears but I can tolerate it. His style was exactly the same as in writing..albeit very lively. Not a bad thing, I guess, although I usually go for quieter guys. I did feel comfortable with him, though. He's one more guy who's travelled all around the world, he said he's been to 4 continents and will show me pics, etc. He used to have a lot of money (through work) but the last couple of years things aren't very good for him. He doesn't have any debts, he just hasn't been able to live like he used to (which means he lives like most people..lol). He was a bit spoiled in the past and he admitted it. We talked a little about his marriage, it had only lasted for 3 years and it was 22 years ago..and his last serious relationship that lasted for a year and was 10 months ago. An interesting story that one. It was with a woman who used to be married to a colleague of his 20 years ago and he had always had a crush on her. He met her by accident on the same online site we've met and, this time around, she was divorced. They dated for a few months and then she suggested they should live together. That worked for a few months but, eventually, they had too many differences and broke up. He didn't ask much about me - he was too busy talking about himself..lol..but he did ask if I'm ok with him not having a car for the time being. I said I don't mind and he said he'd like to meet me in person and he'll call me the next few days to arrange a meeting. I'll go on that date and see. On other news, nothing from Anhel today but he may call later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Is there a reason he couldn't make a specific plan to meet you while you were on the phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Anhel just emailed me. He said he's going to be very busy the next couple of days with some foreign reporters that he has to show around, that right now they're out for dinner, apologised profusely and said he'll call me when he's free and, hopefully, we'll manage to arrange the next date. I replied that it's ok and he can call whenever he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Is there a reason he couldn't make a specific plan to meet you while you were on the phone? I don't know. I did suggest Sunday and he said that would be fine with him but when I tried to make a specific plan he said no, he'll call me back for that because 'he wants to hear my voice again'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't know. I did suggest Sunday and he said that would be fine with him but when I tried to make a specific plan he said no, he'll call me back for that because 'he wants to hear my voice again'. Ugh. Well -good for you for trying to close the deal - seriously. What is it with people -just make a plan if "Sunday is fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Ugh. Well -good for you for trying to close the deal - seriously. What is it with people -just make a plan if "Sunday is fine". Oh, I agree...but it's happened so many times I'm used to it by now. Not going to leave my Sunday free for him, anyway..unless he calls early enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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