browneyedgirl36 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You are right, you have your own standards and right to pick them as you see fit. I think folks here are critical of you looking down on Mike for not giving you a gift when you have let Pedro get off with far, far more. It's one thing to have certain standards that differ from others, but it seems that you apply different standards for different men, or perhaps the standards are mismatched. I admit I find it a bit weird to expect a present while when it comes to Pedro, you gave him a lot of leeway and kept talking to him even when he blew you off twice with dumb excuses. I concur. Cultural differences about gifts notwithstanding (because I admit to being completely baffled about why not bringing a gift when you're not in an exclusive relationship is a strike against a guy, and it's something I can't relate to at all), it does seem you cut Pedro a lot of slack for much more questionable behavior. The simple answer is that Pedro's attractiveness and (initial) assertiveness in pursuing you prompted you to cut him slack, but since you're not all that keen on Mike, you're not willing to cut him the same slack. Mike has clearly shown interest in you -- by calling, texting, asking to see you, spending time with you -- while Pedro only paid lip service to interest by laying on the flowery words. I understand you've told Pedro that you're no longer interested, and that you're under no obligation to return Mike's affections, but -- it just seems a bit troubling to me that something as small as neglecting to bring a gift counts as a "mark" against Mike this early on when he is otherwise very reliable and has shown consistent interest. You're definitely entitled to your standards, and no one here can tell you what you should and should not want (though we can certainly offer counter-points to your thoughts), but...I will say I think you're going to find it harder to find a good guy if you dismiss otherwise decent men for things that, in the big picture, would probably prove to be quite insignificant in the long run. I don't get the impression that Mike is stingy or cheap. I think he is proceeding with caution, perhaps, and he has a lot of other things going on -- his mom, for one, even though she is now better. I just think you aren't being entirely fair to him. But again, these are your standards, and if they are that important to you, you shouldn't compromise on them. I think it could limit your options significantly, but maybe that doesn't worry you, and if not, that's good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 It's not like I'll stop seeing Mike because he didn't get me a gift. Just like I hadn't stopped talking to Pedro even though I felt his excuses might have been dumb..which I'll never know, will I? People do get sick and people do have financial problems. One big difference that all of you overlook is that, in Pedro's case, all I invested was a few minutes every week that we emailed or talked on the phone. With Mike I invest lots of time...and, frankly, I can't see the connection. Pedro was someone I met 3 weeks ago, who kept contacting me first and all I did was talking to him..it had cost me nothing except those 5-10 minutes on the phone. I think that just because we've talked so much about the Pedro case on here, it's taken way bigger proportions than it ever had for me...sure, I was attracted to him and I wanted to see what would happen if he came back..but that was all. I don't know why some of you are talking as if I made a big sacrifice for him or something...and, now, I'm not willing to do the same for Mike. It's apples-oranges in my eyes. I had also talked about Pedro's reaction to me paying the bill when we had gone out..we just didn't talk more about it because he never came back. If he had, you can be sure I'd wonder about it, too. Stinginess is a big issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think you invested a ton of emotion in Pedro -I remember your posts about how upset you were when he didn't ask to see you the day after your first meet. You met Pedro once in person and have seen Mike several times. For example, before Pedro cleared the air - this was not just some guy you spent a few minutes talking to/emailing each week. Try not to revise history and dismiss how focused you were on Pedro -you even wrote that you couldn't give Mike the proper focus because of Pedro (even though you only met once and spoke to him a few minutes each week). It's fine that you chose to react to Pedro that way -and in my view you sacrificed a lot of time when you could have been focusing properly on Mike or other people. Good for you for going on that other date with Jim and for now giving Mike a chance. "Thank you all for the support..I really appreciate it because, to be honest, this whole situation shook me up. Most of you have read this journal from the beginning and you know how rare it is for me to feel a connection. This was the first time ever I kissed someone I met online during a first date...to me, even a simple kiss (I mean tongueless..if that's a word..lol) is a big deal. So, yeah, today (that he didn't contact me at all) I felt like an idiot...most of all because I spent 11 days talking to this guy and he really REALLY sounded genuine, nice and open..there was no indication at all during all our conversations that he was interested in sex. None. Nothing. Things like that make you doubt yourself...and I don't like this feeling at all." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 A ton of emotion because I was upset he didn't ask to see me the day after? LOL, Batya, I was disappointed, naturally, but...a ton of emotion? You make it sound like I was crying night and day I went on a date with a guy I liked and the date went great for me..so, naturally, I was wondering why he didn't ask me out again since he would only be in town for a couple of days. The text you pasted was when I felt (and my friends believed) that he had only been after sex and it did make me feel like an idiot..I'll feel the same if I realise Mike is only after sex, too. Being upset/disappointed was mostly about myself and my criteria...not about Pedro himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 A ton of emotion because I was upset he didn't ask to see me the day after? LOL, Batya, I was disappointed, naturally, but...a ton of emotion? You make it sound like I was crying night and day I went on a date with a guy I liked and the date went great for me..so, naturally, I was wondering why he didn't ask me out again since he would only be in town for a couple of days. The text you pasted was when I felt (and my friends believed) that he had only been after sex and it did make me feel like an idiot..I'll feel the same if I realise Mike is only after sex, too. Being upset/disappointed was mostly about myself and my criteria...not about Pedro himself. I really don't think I misread your post above or the future posts about how you didn't think you could put yourself out there to meet others because of Pedro. It is natural to wonder of course - what I quoted above was beyond that -you don't agree? No, I typically was not "shook up" after a first meet as you described. Nothing at all wrong with that -and I am very sorry you went through that - of course! -just very surprised at how you're trying to dismiss it now as a few minutes of emailing every week and "wondering" why he didn't ask you out on a proper date. He behaved like a jerk, you gave him too many chances in my opinion and I'm really glad you sent him the email so he will stop contacting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I-you even wrote that you couldn't give Mike the proper focus because of Pedro (even though you only met once and spoke to him a few minutes each week). It's fine that you chose to react to Pedro that way -and in my view you sacrificed a lot of time when you could have been focusing properly on Mike or other people. I hadn't focused on Mike because I had no idea he was interested in me and, because, I was never attracted to him. Had I been attracted to him and had he also told me he likes me when we first went out together, things would be very different. As for other people, there was none...I can't just make men appear out of my hat, you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I hadn't focused on Mike because I had no idea he was interested in me and, because, I was never attracted to him. Had I been attracted to him and had he also told me he likes me when we first went out together, things would be very different. As for other people, there was none...I can't just make men appear out of my hat, you know Look - I read what I read, quoted what I quoted. It wasn't about making men appear -you wrote that you were reluctant to put yourself out there because you were so into Pedro and so very upset that he didn't follow up after the first meet (that's not a quote -what I wrote above was a quote). If you didn't mean it that way that's fine - again I am surprised at how you seem to want to downplay it now but sure we can agree to disagree (and the others who responded to how into Pedro you were and how upset you were about Pedro - from my understanding of what you wrote -can respond here if they choose or not). I hope for you that you become as interested in Mike over time as you were in Pedro since Mike seems to be genuinely into you. The next time you write about what a strong connection you feel to a guy and how you are shook up after meeting him once I will remember to interpret it as "seems like a nice guy, I wonder why he didn't call me. Oh well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I really don't think I misread your post above or the future posts about how you didn't think you could put yourself out there to meet others because of Pedro. It is natural to wonder of course - what I quoted above was beyond that -you don't agree? No, I typically was not "shook up" after a first meet as you described. Nothing at all wrong with that -and I am very sorry you went through that - of course! -just very surprised at how you're trying to dismiss it now as a few minutes of emailing every week and "wondering" why he didn't ask you out on a proper date. He behaved like a jerk, you gave him too many chances in my opinion and I'm really glad you sent him the email so he will stop contacting you. I was shook up because it was the first date I had really enjoyed/felt a connection with/kissed the guy... after..oh, I don't know...100-150 dates?. But that had lasted for a couple of days until he called me and explained...and then we went back to emailing/phoning..and, yes, that was a few minutes every week out of my time. I'm not trying to dismiss anything but it's not like I was in love with him and, also, I still wouldn't say he behaved like a jerk. It's not like we were a couple of even dating exclusively. All he did was say he'd visit and then he didn't..and it was up to me to keep talking to him or not..I chose not to. As I've said before I can barely remember what he looked like. Sure, it would be great if we had met again but we didn't and the story is over for me...I think it's more over for me than it is for you..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 The next time you write about what a strong connection you feel to a guy and how you are shook up after meeting him once I will remember to interpret it as "seems like a nice guy, I wonder why he didn't call me. Oh well." Shook up doesn't mean 'omg I'm dying', you know. It can mean 'I'm having a low moment right now'. And a strong connection doesn't mean someone is in love. I never denied I was attracted to the guy...I'm just saying that I didn't sacrifice anything for him and I insist on that. During the Pedro story I had met noone else...it's not like someone approached me and I refused to talk to them...only Mike approached me and I just wasn't attracted to him. I did wonder if it had to do with Pedro but, obviously, it hadn't as I'm still not sure about Mike now that Pedro is history. I'm not trying to downplay anything..I was attracted to him, disappointed and upset that he hadn't asked me out again and then hopeful that we would meet again. Those were my feelings...nothing more and nothing less. As for Mike, I don't know what's going to happen..chemistry is chemistry and you can't force it, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I understand that you weren't in love with him. That's not what I wrote. It's hard to wrap my head around -Pedro didn't behave like a jerk but Mike not buying you a birthday gift makes your list of red flags about him. You are absolutely entitled to your standards and as you've written you're not sure you want to marry again and you don't want kids so there's really no rush to meet someone, right? I think it's jerky to keep promising to make plans - including for your birthday! - and have as many lame excuses as he did (his phone?) especially after laying it on so thick at your first meet. I'm referring to his behavior, not that he is a jerk in general. I think being reliable and honest as to why you can't make it applies to all human beings not just couples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 And that's why I sent Pedro a dear John letter whereas I'm still seeing Mike, Batya...and I had red flags about Pedro, too..a whole post was about red flags about him. He just never gave me the chance to see if I was right or wrong because I never met him again! You can be sure that if I had met him again, watching to see if he indeed was stingy, would be one of my priorities..I've said so much about Pedro's stinginess that I'm surprised that you're surprised I wonder about Mike, too. It's exactly the same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie2006 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Miss M, now that Mike has been more expressive, do you think your feelings for him have shifted a bit OR no? (sorry about the misread on your words in the several posts above) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwixSense Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mike probably would've bought a gift had he not seen you answer that call from Pedro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You cannot force chemistry but you can impede it from happening by focusing too much on perceived negatives. I wouldn't play the game of showing Mike bday gifts and expecting it to trigger a certain reaction. I'm glad you wrote that you see Mike and Pedro as the same situation- so you'll look at Mike's "flaws" from a mindset of being as into him as you were into Pedro - that's a good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
einsteins_girl Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The more I read, the more I think you should stop seeing Mike. I think he is more emotionally invested - and I don't think you are going to be. I think it would be kinder to tell Mike clearly that, after more thought, you are not romantically interested in him and won't be, and you think you should go your separate ways. I'm feeling really bad for this guy, and I think he shouldn't be strung along, especially by someone who thinks she's giving him a big chance by spending time with him. Your tone when it comes to Mike is just... not very kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The more I read, the more I think you should stop seeing Mike. I think he is more emotionally invested - and I don't think you are going to be. I think it would be kinder to tell Mike clearly that, after more thought, you are not romantically interested in him and won't be, and you think you should go your separate ways. I'm feeling really bad for this guy, and I think he shouldn't be strung along, especially by someone who thinks she's giving him a big chance by spending time with him. Your tone when it comes to Mike is just... not very kind. There really might be a middle ground here. She has been honest with him and perhaps they can spend time together but doing activities that don't scream romance or date so she can test things out from a safe distance without leading him on. Certainly he might be feeling more vulnerable because his mom has been ill and he is a main caretaker so this might not be the best time. He sounds like a gem and hope that gem sparkles for her (sorry, bad pun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 After I read Einstein girl's post, I have to agree with her. You continue to say that you aren't really feeling attracted to him and no chemistry. He sounds emotionally invested. I feel a little bad for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think MM has been clear with Mike on where she's at, and he's happy to go out and see where things go, so I don't think she's stringing him along. As long as there's full disclosure and honesty on both sides, I don't see why MM shouldn't give him a chance and see how it goes. He's an adult, he can make his own choices (to keep seeing her knowing she's not that invested). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I also don't think her tone is unkind to Mike specifically, she's just a bit critical of every guy she meets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
einsteins_girl Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Maybe it is that she's overly critical of every guy she meets (except Pedro, seemingly). I've only been reading her journal since Mike and Pedro came along... and I haven't liked how she views/criticizes behavior that I see quite differently. But if that's how MM always approaches things, then I guess I won't take it personally on behalf of Mike, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 She did mention things she was doubting about Pedro as well (stinginess). Obviously they didn't meet enough for her to find out more. I think the only thing she was lenient with Pedro was continued responding to his emails and calls. That being said, she set herself a timeline when she would cut him off and she did, so I don't think she applied a different standard to him than other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Miss M, now that Mike has been more expressive, do you think your feelings for him have shifted a bit OR no? Well, I let him kiss me (albeit very lightly...lol), so, it's not like I'm indifferent to him. I just don't know if what I feel about him is enough for something more. Remember I've only seen him twice since I found out he doesn't just see me as a friend and only the last time he acted romantically, too (as opposed to acting as a buddy). Regarding the rest of the comments, I'm extremely surprised at some of them. My comments about Mike have not been kind???? Really? I've said he is a/good looking b/polite c/fun d/great to talk to and e/that I feel very comfortable around him. Where exactly wasn't I 'kind'??? The only thing that I'm not sure I have with him is chemistry...and that has nothing to do with being kind or rude...it just is. Am I supposed to sleep with him or start a relationship when I'm not sure about my feelings just to be kind? I think not. Also, I've been nothing but honest with Mike, he knows exactly where I stand. How am I 'stringing him along' when I've told him clearly that I like him as a person but I'm not sure if we can have something more? He could have said ok, let's stay friends or you know what, I'd rather not continue seeing you because I'm more into you than you are into me. He chose to go down the romance path and see if things change...that's HIS choice...nothing to do with me as I've been very careful to not lead him on. So far, I like what he does and I liked his (light) kiss. If he tries to do more, I don't know what my reaction will be..it depends on the moment, I guess. But you can be sure that I'm the last person who would lead someone on..I hate people who do that. Batya: I didn't show him the ring expecting some reaction. He saw the ring, told me he liked it, I mentioned it was a gift for my birthday and he asked which friend had bought it for me. It's not like I did anything on purpose..I don't operate like that. I would have said the same to anyone who commented on something they liked on me that had been a gift. Finally, once more, I don't know why some of you keep saying that I'm acting as if I'm doing Mike some 'big favour' by going out with him. I've never said or insinuated something like that. I've always wanted to go out with him, ever since we met. A chance, yes, I am giving him..but how is that bad? Posters on here were the ones who told me don't disappoint him, give him a chance and things may change...and that's exactly what I'm doing. Sometimes you just can't win..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Maybe it is that she's overly critical of every guy she meets (except Pedro, seemingly). I've only been reading her journal since Mike and Pedro came along... and I haven't liked how she views/criticizes behavior that I see quite differently. But if that's how MM always approaches things, then I guess I won't take it personally on behalf of Mike, LOL. The only thing I've been judgemental about regarding Mike is the gift story...and considering that all my friends who had been at the party (a male friend included) have already asked me what he's gotten me, it's not something unthinkable or something that I personally find unacceptable, it's just how things are over here. I realise that we don't all come from the same country and we don't have the same customs, that's why I tried to explain the best I could...that if you invite someone to a celebration (and not just a party) and, especially, if you pay for dinner, they bring you a gift...and he did say he would get me one and, of course, I've been waiting to see if he'll do what he said or not. About Pedro, how on earth haven't I been judgemental about him??? I judged his behaviour when I paid the bill, I complained about the fact he didn't ask me out again and I even thought it meant he had just been after sex, I wondered if his excuses for not coming here again were real or fake, I said I'm getting bored with just talking with him, I said that all the stuff he's been telling me about his finances/family annoy me...I've judged Pedro way more than I ever judged Mike...and, eventually, I told him to leave me alone because I realised he was all talk. The way I see things, I gave both of them a chance...Pedro because we had a great date and he kept contacting me and saying how interested he was and because sometimes life does get in the way and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and Mike because I think he's a great guy. It's not my fault that I was attracted to Pedro from the first time I met him whereas i had seen Mike as a friend...I believe I've been honest and fair with both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 By the way, Pedro never responded to my email...he probably thought why spend money just to wish her good luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 By the way, Pedro never responded to my email...he probably thought why spend money just to wish her good luck? It costs for him to send an email? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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