happpybear Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Maybe he just didn't know how to BE, in this situation. I could see it being sorta awkward and maybe that would make him a bit more reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Maybe he just didn't know how to BE, in this situation. I could see it being sorta awkward and maybe that would make him a bit more reserved. Maybe..we'll see. It's up to him. If he waits for me to do something, he'll have to wait for a looooooooooong time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 You could just surprise him and take off your shirt. Kidding. But I will say this...many guys aren't good at reading subtlety. So you can talk about how you liked that Pedro was forward with you around Mike, and all he's probably thinking is "She still like Pedro." You might have to be more blunt. Say, "If you want to date me, I need you to pull out all the stops and show me you're attracted t me, make me feel like a woman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Say, "If you want to date me, I need you to pull out all the stops and show me you're attracted t me, make me feel like a woman." Well, if I wanted someone to teach, I'd date a 20yo, not a man my age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "he's very, very, VERY cautious? shy? low profile?..something." I can understand that to an extent as long as it's not his reaction to the situation. You want someone more take charge (which Pedro is superficially only). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
einsteins_girl Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I can understand this too. Mike acts passively. I'll admit that, to some degree, that would be a turn-off for me too. I haven't encountered this in a romantic situation, but I have been around guys who just seem to have no get-up-and-go, no self-assertion, and it comes off as a bit weak and unappealing. But it's also a fine line to know when someone is inherently passive or is just being nice and respectful. Time will tell, I guess. I agree that he needs to show a little more assertiveness at this point, now that the cards are on the table. At the very least, he could just ask you on an actual date. Maybe in that situation, he'd feel more comfortable acting romantic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think you need to cut Mike some slack. I think your perceived interest in Pedro has caused him to be more cautious, and I think all in all he sounds like a decent respectful guy, and therefore won't make any sudden romantic gestures when you expressed interest in someone else and expressed uncertainty towards him. In fact I think the fact that he doesn't make a move exactly demonstrates that he is respectful and value you as a person therefore won't want to offend you or risk your budding friendship. You may see your hints as pretty clear but I can't see it. I think you want him to be a mind reader, but he isn't. Mike also seems like an introvert (not the same as outgoing vs shyness of course), and flirting is not an innate ability in more introverted guys, they kinda have to train themselves to do it and probably still not be good at it. He actually reminds me a lot of my bf, he was not good at flirting at all, I never knew he was interested in me before he told me he was. We texted a lot before we went on a first date which helped him as an introvert to open up and be more comfortable. But once we started dating, he's affectionate and romantic, still not flirty though, he's just not a flirty guy. Maybe Mike is not charming and can pull out all the stops like Pedro can, but at the same time, he seems reliable and genuine. Personally I would pick that over getting romanced every time. Which is not to say he won't be romantic once you start dating. I think you don't need to make a move but you do need to show some interest for him to proceed. It's kind of chicken and egg. If he isn't flirting, you can't see him in a "romantic" way but if you aren't interested, he won't get all flirty and affectionate. It's easy to want to be swept off your feet by a charming, smooth guy, but my experience (which may not be as much as you) is that A LOT of genuine, good guys, are not smooth, are more cautious, might even be a bit awkward and clumsy when it comes to making a move, but you'd be missing out if you judge them based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDallas40 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 MissM: My read on the MIKE situation is that if you were TRULY into him, all of his "nice" qualities would seem AMAZING. As it is, you're simply not attracted to him, so you're seeing these aspects as evidence of his lack of initiative, and therefore a turn-off. And that's ok. Forcing yourself to like him more by "giving it time" won't really do much good IMO. In his place, I would appreciate your honesty in telling your true feelings so I wouldn't be left wondering. But by the same token, I wouldn't even dream of making "the first move" after hearing about Pedro and knowing that you just see me as a friend. So I see his reticence as respectful, not an indication of lack of courage. In short, I recommend keeping things on a solely friendship basis with MIKE (i.e.: no outings with him alone, no initiating activies, etc.), don't worry about PEDRO until he makes a real concrete plan with you (unlike MIKE, he has no excuses to be reticent), and keep looking for other options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 notalady, no, I don't want someone smooth. I want someone who knows how to take initiative and that's very different. Pedro wasn't smooth..it's not like he had showered me with compliments, he had just said he likes me at first....and when he did, he had no idea if I liked him back or not...he had to ask me if I did because I wasn't saying anything, I was just listening to him...and that's how most of my relationships have started. Because that's the sort of guy I want, I don't take initiative myself. If Mike can't do it, then, nothing is going to happen. That goes for ND, too. No, I wouldn't find amazing the fact that a guy who supposedly likes me, sits back and does nothing to show me, apart from going out with me and talking about the weather. He hasn't even told me one thing he likes about me..nothing...and he had the chance because I asked him (I forgot to mention this before). Come on..how difficult is it to give someone a compliment??? PS When I asked him what he liked about me, he said I'm a very nice girl and we have many things in common..all very nice but too clinical for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's interesting, just thinking back, I don't think most the guys I was interested in paid me any compliments initially, it only started after we had been on a number of dates or some even later, I never actually noticed. I guess different strokes for different folks. So you asked him what he likes about you and what did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Just saw your update/edit, I think that's a nice answer. I mean what is one suppose to say to that really? He probably doesn't know enough of your good qualities to be more specific. If you just wanted him to tell you you are attractive, then I will have to ask, isn't that a bit shallow? I think I'm just going to have to agree with ND here and say that because you are not attracted to him, everything he does and says is just wrong in your eyes. And that's ok. Obviously wouldn't want to force yourself into anything and best just be friends with him (if he is also open to it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDallas40 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 No, I wouldn't find amazing the fact that a guy who supposedly likes me, sits back and does nothing to show me, apart from going out with me and talking about the weather. He hasn't even told me one thing he likes about me..nothing...and he had the chance because I asked him (I forgot to mention this before). There's one word that sums up why you didn't get any of the above: PEDRO. b/w No self-respecting guy is going to go on friendzone dates with a woman and shower her with romantic words, compliments, and actions when he knows full well she's dating around... because SHE TELLS HIM ABOUT IT. He's probably accepted his role as your new fake gay BFF, so doesn't see the point to pursue a more intimate route. And no offense to you about that - as I said before, even from the start you just weren't into him. But whether his lack of initiative is due to his low confidence level, his respect for your dating status, or some combination of both... well, only you can determine that for yourself, if it matters. When I asked him what he liked about me, he said I'm a very nice girl and we have many things in common..all very nice but too clinical for my liking. Nah, those were totally nice and acceptable things for a guy 90 yards into the friendzone to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I agree with ND. He's deep in the friendzone. You've told him that you see him as a friend after repeatedly talking about Pedro and you didn't really reciprocate his feelings. And now you are down on him for not acting romantic and flirty with you? He's not going to initiate much now because you haven't really given him the green light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Let me make something clear. I don't 'accuse' Mike of anything. I really like him as a person from what I've seen so far. I just tried to explain what it is about him that makes me see him as a friend. That he acts exactly like all my male friends...and I only realised last night when, in my opinion, it was high time he took things one step further. The way I see things, I did give him the green light when I told him that I don't know what's going to happen because he had caught me off guard when he said he likes me...if I had told him 'you know what, I see you as a friend and that's all I can offer you', then, I would agree with you all that, of course, why would he try anything? Apparenty, I see things different. I want a guy who likes me to be able to tell me something more than you're a nice girl and we have things in common. I don't think it's shallow to want a guy to tell you something nice, it's what differentiates between a lover and a friend for me. I certainly don't expect my male friends to tell me you have a pretty smile or I like your eyes or you're beautiful..but I do expect it from a man who supposedly wants to sleep with me at some point. I just can't imagine talking with someone about politics/the weather/music and, all of a sudden, we share a kiss, for example. Maybe I'm not explaining things well, I don't know. But I do know and I'm 100% sure that it has nothing to do with Pedro..it has to do with Mike himself and how he behaves...it only has to do with Pedro if I compare how one of them made me see him romantically from the beginning and the other one can't even do that after 6 dates. Yes, the whole Pedro story might have made him more hesitant than usual as far as touching/kissing go (I can understand that) but...a nice girl and we have things in common? No, I want something more than that. PS I do find Mike good looking. That's one more reason I know that the 'problem' for me is in his approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 A little background. A couple of years ago I had met this guy (online). We had been emailing/phoning each other for about a month before we met (the reason was that it was the summer, first he went away on holidays, then I did but we kept communicating). We finally met. I really liked that guy. He was good looking, sweet, very polite, we had things in common. We went on 5 dates before I broke things off. Why? Because I never felt during our dates that he realised I was a woman. Sure, he had said he's interested in me and how nice I am (I had come to hate that word) but he did nothing to show he was attracted to me...whatever romantic interest I had in him had evaporated by our 5th date when he hadn't even touched my hand. I felt like I was going out with a female friend! And, no, there was no Pedro back then and noone to compare him to...I just knew that a guy who is this shy? slow? whatever...is not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 But I wouldn't say you had been on 6 "dates" with Mike. You started off as friends and he was aware you are interested in someone else, they were friends outings, and obviously it's easy to see him as just a friend because of this. Even the last "date" was more just to clarify where you're at. If you go on a date now, with the specific understanding from both parties that it's a date, and if he doesn't make a move then sure, you can say that he's not assertive enough. He certainly did make the mistake of listening to you talk about your other romantic interests and positioned himself right into the friend zone, and that you could say is perhaps showing lack of experience and assertiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yes, I know that it hasn't been 6 actual dates...until the other night I had no idea he was even interested! Anyway, we'll see...I certainly want to keep seeing Mike and I'm curious to see if he'll ask me out on a 'real' date...but something tells me that this is his style. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingFool Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 MM, Mike is not going to ask you out on a real date - you rejected him. He would be insane to push and pursue you full force after being rejected so bluntly. The only way anything would happen with Mike is if YOU suddenly made the moves and made it crystal clear in your actions and words that you have had an abrupt change of heart about him. If he has any self respect at all, and I suspect that he does, the burden would be on you to convince him that you mean the change of heart too. Pedro, btw, would give me the creeps if I was out on a date with him. Like I'd want to run home screaming and take a long shower to wash the slime off. His behavior was pure unadulterated sleaze and it's scary to me that you actually fell so hard for it. Guys like Pedro may be all fun and giggles if all you want is a fling or a one night stand. Outside of that, you'll find that they are losers and cheaters and will mess up your life. I get the whole idea of wanting to feel desired and wanting a man who will take charge. However, when you fall for the Pedros of this world, it's time to take a bit step back and evaluate just what's going on with you that's driving you to crave that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 In my personal experience, the men who are the most faithful and commitment minded do not really act like Pedro. They tend not to be huge flirts right off the bat. They can be charming but don't have a reputation for being that way. Simply put, many good guys don't act like Casanovas from the start. You may need to reciprocate some on your end to get things moving. If you're looking for someone who is very romantic and showy and charming and flirty early on, just be warned that many men who are cheats act that way from the start. I think once you give a good guy a chance, and he likes you, he will make you feel very desired and wanted. I don't think infidelity is 100% preventable but I do think certain sorts of men are more prone to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 What DF said. I don't want you to take this post the wrong way. I don't know you in your life...and I don't want to offend you at all, but I do hope you'll be able to read this and think about it...Ther are some things that I've noticed...I know that you're scared to put yourself out there. Like if a guy that you're not sure if he likes you but you like him doesn't call you back in time frame you deem acceptable, you cut him out. It seems like...you're in protective mode, and not really putting yourself out there. Asking Mike what he likes about you when you barely know each other...seems a bit like....low self esteem...and I don't want to say that because I like you...but if anyone else posted it, I would say that to them too. And the whole "he has to make the first move because I won't" thing...is kind of lame. Fine if you don't like Mike, drop him. But if you're curious at all about him, you're going to have to make the next move here- he told you he liked you...and you said maybe..and now you want him to bust out all Casanova...but no guy with any self esteem would do that. I think you want to find someone,and you're being proactive and that's brave. You're so close MM. It's just a matter of being a wee bit more open (IMHO). It must feel like we're all picking on you...and I'm sorry for that. You know when you see something though, and it's so obvious but the person next to you doesn't notice it? It's like that. I really want you to get the guy. The good one, that will make you happy. He's out there. Idk if he's Mike or not, but he's out there and you're close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think MM said before that her ex-husband was really passive and that was something about him she didn't like. So now she wants a guy who is more of a go-getter. Am I wrong here in this view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browneyedgirl36 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 There's one word that sums up why you didn't get any of the above: PEDRO. b/w No self-respecting guy is going to go on friendzone dates with a woman and shower her with romantic words, compliments, and actions when he knows full well she's dating around... because SHE TELLS HIM ABOUT IT. He's probably accepted his role as your new fake gay BFF, so doesn't see the point to pursue a more intimate route. And no offense to you about that - as I said before, even from the start you just weren't into him. But whether his lack of initiative is due to his low confidence level, his respect for your dating status, or some combination of both... well, only you can determine that for yourself, if it matters. Nah, those were totally nice and acceptable things for a guy 90 yards into the friendzone to say. I agree with all of this. I think Mike is probably 1) an introvert as someone else mentioned (I am one, and it is VERY hard for me to flirt or show interest without it looking forced -- or worse -- desperate!); 2) He knows you are dating other people and that you are clearly into someone else, so he doesn't want to lay his cards all out on the table; 3) He pretty much suspects/knows that he's in the friendzone, and he doesn't want to make a fool of himself. Yes, he's reticent -- I know I would be if I were him -- and while that MAY just be a function of his overall character, it may also be in response to his uncertainty about where he stands with you, and some intimidation -- or at least hesitance -- due to the fact that you've talked about another guy with him quite frequently. He also may be an honorable person and may want to remain in the background while you're sorting out things with Pedro, rather than stepping up and making a move when you're into someone else. I look at that as a positive trait. The bottom line is, you're not that into him, and ultimately, perhaps, the reasons don't matter. If you are hesitant about him, don't pursue it at all, and draw a line in the sand, because he is not going to get LESS interested in you if you keep seeing him, and he may end up getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browneyedgirl36 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I really, really think that Pedro has everything to do with this. I'm sorry, but....if I were on dates/meetups with a guy and he was talking about other women -- and one woman in particular, especially-- I would make the assumption that he had ZERO interest in me, and I would be very reticent around him. I mean, isn't that how a lot of women get rid of guys they're not interested in -- by talking about their boyfriends (even if they really don't have one)? I think a lot of people would react this way. Clearly, you like Mike -- no one is disputing that -- but I think he's in a tough spot: He really likes you, but up until this point, you haven't given him a green light at ALL -- not even a faint amber/yellow "proceed with caution" one, until your "I don't know what is going to happen" response, which is, to me, not a green light at all because it's very non-committal. Anyway...not trying to be hard on you -- I'm just trying to get you to see where Mike might be coming from. Yes, he might be a bit reticent, and maybe that 's not a trait you are able to accept in a partner, but...I think his reticence is largely situational -- that if he thought he actually had a chance with you he'd be more assertive. Just a thought. To repeat again, though, don't continue to date him if you aren't into him. It's not fair to him, and you're wasting your time as well. Better to move on to other prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Kidding. But I will say this...many guys aren't good at reading subtlety. This. So much this. Women practically had to hit me over the head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well, there are a lot of things to answer to. First of all, I don't feel like I rejected Mike AT ALL. Rejection is 'I don't like you, you're not my type, I only see you as a friend, I'm in love with someone else'. Not 'I had no idea you liked me and I don't know what will happen if we keep going out together'. I would have told him more (like, for example, that I think he's good looking and sweet) if he had asked but he didn't...he listened to what I said and then changed the subject. Second, why would I 'make the moves'??? I wouldn't do that...because, to me, that's what a guy is supposed to do and I told him as much. The only thing I didn't do was tell him 'please, flirt with me'. I don't want to convince him about anything....why would I? I'm not even sure I want something like that with him! Third...I'm not looking for a flirty guy. I'm looking for a guy who can treat me like a woman, not like one of his male buddies...and who says that good guys can't be sweet, sensual, pay a woman a compliment, etc etc? My best relationship was with a guy like that...and he was also my best friend. I don't want someone to be VERY romantic, I want someone who knows how to be romantic without me having to hold his hand and guide him. As for infidelity, as far as I know I've never been cheated on...my ex husband did have an affair but the marriage had been long over by then and I couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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