zep Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I would just point out that "nice" does not mean "kind and respectful". So when everyone is like, whats wrong with being a nice guy?? dont women want a nice guy?? No. They want someone kind, thoughtful, respectful, and caring. Usually when someone describes something as "nice" it's not in a positive way... you all know what I'm talking about. "How was the party/date/girl?" "It was nice." "Oh... just nice?" "yea..." I'm just saying there is a reason there are separate words for 'kind' and 'nice'. They do not mean the same thing, and people use them in different situations. If someone says "you are too nice" it means you are being a pushover doormat, not that you are being too good of a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angler Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I love the scare quotes. Very crass and bullying. ??? I told him it's okay to be nice, but not to get walked on, or to buy affection. I told him he need not be jaded. I fail to see how the truth makes me either crass, or a bully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I would just point out that "nice" does not mean "kind and respectful". So when everyone is like, whats wrong with being a nice guy?? dont women want a nice guy?? No. They want someone kind, thoughtful, respectful, and caring. Usually when someone describes something as "nice" it's not in a positive way... you all know what I'm talking about. "How was the party/date/girl?" "It was nice." "Oh... just nice?" "yea..." I'm just saying there is a reason there are separate words for 'kind' and 'nice'. They do not mean the same thing, and people use them in different situations. If someone says "you are too nice" it means you are being a pushover doormat, not that you are being too good of a person. Zep, I believe that we have distinguished that difference. I've always known that there was a hidden meaning behind the term when it is often said. My question is what behaviors do I need to adopt in order to break this cycle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 ??? I told him it's okay to be nice, but not to get walked on, or to buy affection. I told him he need not be jaded. I fail to see how the truth makes me either crass, or a bully. In fear of having this thread locked out due to argumentative comments, as the OP can I ask that we keep this thread on track without passing judgements. This thread is quite important to me because I really would like to adopt change in how I operate and I am sure other members with the same issues can find advice here too. Lets just stay on track here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 When one doesn't have the advantages that other guys have, yes, one may have to "buy affection" by going out of their way to treat someone well. That's just common sense. Some guys do it in a dishonest way, and some guys do it by simply taking something sincere and really expressing it. I'll never understand why people want to vilify those of us on the lowest rung of the proverbial food chain, while guys that are doing far worse things (and who have no problem getting women) are running around unchecked. I really like this. I do believe that the attraction system is quite flawed and that the honest guys sometimes are judged too harshly without really doing anything abrasive. However, I wouldn't consider myself on the lowest of rungs. I have dated many girls of all kinds. I just can't seem to get past date 2. So to give them the benefit of the doubt, most girls do give me a chance once they see that I'm legitimate. I just can't ever seal the deal because I fall apart by not being a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Zep, I believe that we have distinguished that difference. I've always known that there was a hidden meaning behind the term when it is often said. My question is what behaviors do I need to adopt in order to break this cycle? I don't know you personally, but are you overly accomodating while dating/in a relationship? as in, you never have opinions of your own, you just want to do what she wants to do? does your date always pick the restaurant or movie you go to? It's ok to say, "you know, i don't like that restaurant, let's go here..." or "I am not in the mood for a romantic comedy, I'd rather see this..." Or as an extreme version of this, you buy her this ring or this thing because she wants it, not because you can afford it. One poster on here knows a woman who insisted her fiance buy her a ring that was larger than her sister's. Her sister's was 1.5 carats, so she got a 1.7 carat ring. that is crazy. especially considering her fiance doesn't have much money. that kind of stuff. don't be a pushover. now of course a relationship is give and take, and she should be compromising as well as you. If you are always doing what she wants, then you can be seen as "too nice." or perhaps "being nice to her but not to yourself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ps - I read now on the last page that you do tolerate bad behaviors. So that is a place to start. IMHO, on the first few dates, or even for the first few months, at the very least, people should be on their best behavior. I know that emergencies happen, people get stuck in traffic and are late, etc... But if this is continuously happening, you should say to yourself, "hey - this dorsnt work for me" rather than taking it because you are dazzled by this woman's boobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 You hit the nail on the head. I am so nervous when I meet someone that I could potentially like that I pretty much would just do what they want if it meant keeping them around. I feel like having an opinion or saying no will turn them off. I guess I don't want to come off too strong. I've always been indifferent though. Most of my life I have never cared if we turn left or right, fish or chicken.. And so on. Not great leadership qualities I know, it's something that I no longer want to do. Is it ok to meet half way for a date but still pay? (This is another thing... How many dates should the guy pay for? I feel like its awkward asking a date to put in their share) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angler Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Paying for the dates, and bearing the majority of the commuting aren't in themselves behaviours to avoid. There is nothing wrong with being forward and direct when making plans with a girl. Tell her where you'd like to go, don't qualify it with a "but if you'd rather..." Like you, I feel really uneasy splitting bills, and it takes a while before I am comfortable letting a girl treat me for a night out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Zep, I believe that we have distinguished that difference. I've always known that there was a hidden meaning behind the term when it is often said. My question is what behaviors do I need to adopt in order to break this cycle? Well, I think the most important thing is having opinions, and caring about those opinions, and being willing to state them and stand up for them. How to form more opinons- I don't know? Read more? Travel more? Just try things? Focus on what interests you. I'm really not sure how a person becomes a 'people pleaser', so I don't know how to counteract it. Personality is extremely genetic so I'm not sure how much you can change. If your nature is a people pleaser, that might just be how you are. Some personality traits are more attractive than others, but your main solution might be just to find somone who likes you as you are. I've met more shy/soft-spoken/"nice" girls than guys so they are out there. I think you'd have better luck with girls who are similar to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Also, this is a trick that might help you- why don't you go out wearing different clothes than you normally would, and "act" like a person who doesn't care what other people think? Pretend you are an actor in a scene. Have your character start a conversation with a stranger and have your character have really strong beliefs. For instance, that Italian food is the BEST food in the world and that French food is horrible. (Try reading the book Heat, which is a history of French cooking- it developed from Italian cooking). You can even tell the stranger a made up name and profession, why not? Fake it til you make it! I think reading and traveling more will help because you can't really form opinions unless you know about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveSoDeep Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 You know I think you're attracted to the wrong girls. There are women out there that appreciate a nice guy. I love it when a guy choooses a place near me so I don;t have to drive and does small considerate things but I always thank him and offer to make it more fair for him the next time....see I apprciate it but I'm not taking advantage. Somehow you are finding the ones that just take advantage of it and walk away. These girls who want Mr. Nice Guy to take them out smile agree with everything and pay for everything are just insecure....and I think the reason you're drawn to them is b/c you are insecure too. Another reason you could be having this problem is you sound very mature and at 24 if you're dating women around your age that aren't ready to settle down then again you're picking the wrong girls. Have you tried dating women just a few years older? Sometimes at say 26 women start to know more about themselves and what they want/need in realtionship and are ready to think about settling down....where as at 24 many of us are still trying to figure out what we want/need. I know I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Have you tried dating women just a few years older? Sometimes at say 26 women start to know more about themselves and what they want/need in realtionship and are ready to think about settling down....where as at 24 many of us are still trying to figure out what we want/need. I know I was. I am insecure. I have tried very hard to change it but the continual failure at dating hasn't really helped. Ironically, I have dated a few older girls, sometimes they are just a year old, the oldest being 5 years older, and each time I have noticed that things generally went smoother. Almost 2 out of 3 of my most serious relationships the girl was older. The only issue with it is most girls are looking for a guy that is older than they are. I think its a subconscious "protector" mentality. Most girls my age just drink and party and be with friends.. kind of like being in college still even though you arent. I grew out of that a while ago when I chose a career over friends. So I wonder if I were just to wait a year or two and have fun and live for myself if things were to turn in my favor once a lot of girls start thinking of settling down. The insecurity steps in right here though, making me feel better thinking that I would be a lot happier if I had someone to express my real emotions with and someone who I could really bond memories with.. its a cycle I dont know how to stop. I am learning a lot of tips from everyone and things I am sure that will work. I just need to vent it all out so that I dont have to keep coming back to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveSoDeep Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Okay I can honestly say when I was 26ish (27 or 28 even) I would have no problem dating a 24 year old guy. If they think the guy has to be older to protect them they are nuts. lol or they didn't have little brothers....my little bro could protect me just as much as any older guy....age has nothing to do with protection abilities. Most girls my age just drink and party and be with friends.. kind of like being in college still even though you arent. I grew out of that a while ago when I chose a career over friends. So I wonder if I were just to wait a year or two and have fun and live for myself if things were to turn in my favor once a lot of girls start thinking of settling down. ^^^^^ This is the answer! See you knew it all along. There's nothing wrong with taking a break and taking a step back and waiting for life to catch up with you. be happy being you, work on the confidence you know you need (for life not just for love) and in a year or two things will be different or if you're lucky while you're not obsessing over finding the one you'll bump into someone completely awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 ^^^^^ This is the answer! See you knew it all along. There's nothing wrong with taking a break and taking a step back and waiting for life to catch up with you. be happy being you, work on the confidence you know you need (for life not just for love) and in a year or two things will be different or if you're lucky while you're not obsessing over finding the one you'll bump into someone completely awesome! I really want to be right about that... and my gut feeling tells me that I am, I just feel nervous about letting go without any guarantee that girls will eventually turn into women. I have heard a lot of people on here and IRL tell me that I am too mature for my age. I just hope that girls will catch up. Its hard when you can't actually diffinitively prove that around 25-27 most girls start to settle. I also fear that by then, I wont be so accepting and nice anymore... and that I will be dried up, jaded, and an A Hole... and I wont be able to appreciate the nature of a mature woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 You hit the nail on the head. I am so nervous when I meet someone that I could potentially like that I pretty much would just do what they want if it meant keeping them around. I feel like having an opinion or saying no will turn them off. I guess I don't want to come off too strong. I've always been indifferent though. Most of my life I have never cared if we turn left or right, fish or chicken.. And so on. Not great leadership qualities I know, it's something that I no longer want to do. Is it ok to meet half way for a date but still pay? (This is another thing... How many dates should the guy pay for? I feel like its awkward asking a date to put in their share) I feel like you don't really ever have to ask a date to put in their share. If she is fair and considerate, she will offer to pay. I try to offer. At the very least, I reach for my purse. Some guys stop me, some guys don't. Either way, I don't feel like it is right to make a man pay all the time, even if he can afford it. And yes, it is very kind and considerate to pick a restaurant near her place or go to the movie she wants to see. there is compromise. Hopefully, she would be interested in your likes and dislikes as well and would be accomodating to go to the movie you want to see. When it comes to picking out dates, do you make the plans or let the woman decide? I would go ahead and for the first few dates, make the plan - chose the restaurant, the movie, the activity, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 When it comes to picking out dates, do you make the plans or let the woman decide? I would go ahead and for the first few dates, make the plan - chose the restaurant, the movie, the activity, whatever. I try to. In some instances its worked great and in others its completely fallen apart. Sometimes they know the place that I offer and tell me that they didn't hear great things about it and then we are forced into the whole.. well what about here? Or here? game.. I usually call the date and time. I try to avoid telling them that "I am free any night this week" even when I am only because I dont exactly want them to think that I really sit around and do nothing.. However, I have made the plans and reservations before for the first date... its just hard when they come back and say they dont want to go there.. then I feel awkward because I need to find another place worth going to. As for movies, I try to stay away from them until I get to know the person unless its a major hit. I understand that a lot of people have varying interests and I think that most movies will be hit and miss for at least one of us. I struggle with finding inventive ways to make dates. I have noticed that I will call for a date without having anything even lined up... Its made me look stupid in the past. I think these are all contributing factors for why I can't ever secure a second or third date with most girls I am interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ok, so have 2 or 3 restaurants you would like as a backup. actually, i personally think a more casual first date is better anyway - coffee, drinks, whatever. and remember - it's also about you deciding if you like THEM. if she poo-poos your every suggestion, and can't just be graceful and go along with the date you have planned and asked her out on, maybe you don't want to be with her anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejmonster Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yeah, and I wonder if that is a real problem.. I dont know what I will put up with and what is an immediate no no... I have a high bs tolerance level that I would love to bring down a few notches. I think thats where the assertiveness needs to come into play, when she says no to everything then I need to express that she has to pick something or this date isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveSoDeep Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I really want to be right about that... and my gut feeling tells me that I am, I just feel nervous about letting go without any guarantee that girls will eventually turn into women. I have heard a lot of people on here and IRL tell me that I am too mature for my age. I just hope that girls will catch up. Its hard when you can't actually diffinitively prove that around 25-27 most girls start to settle. I also fear that by then, I wont be so accepting and nice anymore... and that I will be dried up, jaded, and an A Hole... and I wont be able to appreciate the nature of a mature woman. At this point I think that if you don't just relax and take a break you might be at a bigger risk for becoming a jaded a hole. Nothing is for sure but if you're already discouraged then there's no harm in just taking the pressure off for a little bit. I'm not saying not to date at all but make something else your focus...like school. And yes work on your BS tolerance levels. You need to set clear boundaries. If something hasn't worked in the past it's okay to say no to it the next time. I mean come on if eating broccoli makes you puke....then it's okay to not eat it the next time it's served to you....if girls who treat you like a doormat don't work for you don't go out with them....all that does is keep you available for the women who will treat you with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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