I'm so very lonely...it's painful at times

[cocoon2012]

Seek no contacts and you will find many

*

Be still and you will move forward on the tide of spirit

*

Be gentle and you will need no strength

*

Be patient and you will achieve all things

*

Be humble and you will remain entire

*

Close your eyes and you will see clearly

*

Cease to listen and you will hear truth

*

Be silent and your heart will sing

*

(A Taoist Meditation)

[Poppies]

Candyapplle – thank you for your reply and for sharing with me. Much appreciated. But I am very sorry to hear you are in the same position. You sound as lonely as I do. I know we’re not alone in the world...but does it help to know that...? Does it change anything? I think there are many single people out there – men and women, who are very lonely. But again – that doesn’t change anything – it’s not as if all these people want to get together, support eachother, couple up etc.

Ms Darcy – thank you for clarifying. There may be some truth in what you say re. Vulnerability etc and that it may be off-putting. But there are plenty of women in that emotional position who do find a relationship, and as I say I found my nice last partner when I was not feeling at my best. I’m not really sure how I come accross to tell you the truth. I do know that I don’t sleep well/wake up anxious every single night, and that has a huge impact on how I feel. There are some days when I do feel better but those are intermittent.

I think it’s very difficult/almost impossible to find a friend who will give you anything approximating love. In my experience, most friendship circles are really about socialising, passing the time, enjoying yourself, sharing and supporting eachother but in reality not expecting/demanding too much. Often friends do not want to get too involved/take the friendship to any depth. This is too threatening for many people and they often don’t wish to have to give too much as they are already devoted to their immediate families ie. Partners/children for that.

And I also want the intimacy of a relationship with a man – sex, for example. How am I supposed to live without that level of intimacy? I know that I could see the man upstairs for that, but then I think that would be much too damaging for me.....and sex is much better when there is some connection between two people rather than merely the physical act which is just sloppy exercise at the end of the day and leaves you feeling far emptier afterewards I think (especially if you’re a woman).

Cocoon – thank you for that. You know, a few years ago I would have found some comfort in those words. But today I am not feeling so good. Believe me, I have done plenty of reading in recent years on the subject of spirituality and personal growth etc. And I am some way up the ladder myself and have grown in wisdom. However, isn’t this a bit like believing in God? Many people turn to God to give them some kind of nebulous hope and guidance in difficult times and the reality could be that there is absolutely nothing there, and no-one listening to these people and the idea of God in reality is completely meaningless in relation to the real world.

So, I would say:

Seek no contacts – and everyone forgets about you and you end up alone.

Be gentle, be humble (and I am a very gentle/sensitive person) – and you will get nowhere, people may walk all over you and no-one will recognise or respect you for these qualities.

Be patient – if you do nothing, then that is exactly what you will get back. I don’t see how being patient means that you will achieve all things.

I know you are trying to help so sorry to be so negative/cynical – but maybe I am being pragmatic.

 

In the end, isn't the truth that we are not meant to be alone (living alone without intimacy.) I know some people prefer or possibly more accurately have resigned themelves to this/have cut themselves off. All the posturing about thinking that couples are unhappy/taking time to work on yourself etc are just attempts to try to ignore the truth or distract yourself from your real feelings.

The single state is very difficult for most humans - they need the warmth, love, companionship and sex. And I am having a very difficult time being single over such a long period. And I’m scared and panic - I’m not getting any younger and this counts against me hugely. But please don’t get me wrong - I’m also doing my best not to come accross as a desperate individual because I know there is nothing more unattractive! I probably should go out more and flirt, but then I do need to feel better about myself for that (and Ms Darcy is right there)..... I need to look less tired and drawn. I don’t think anyone would guess that I am so very lonely and so worried about my status as a single, middle aged woman. So, all of the above considered, how am i supposed to look to look to the future exactly?

[Ms Darcy]

Well, I am a go getter. So, in your situation my attitude would be to identify women in a similar situation and try to cultivate deep friendships there. Relationships come and go but friendships can remain. I would get into therapy to work on my issues, work hard on getting more/better sleep, and start meditating/doing yoga. If I wanted a family, I would look into adoption.

 

Sadly, only you have your best interest at heart in this life.

[cocoon2012]

Relation should be Creative otherwise it will become addective ,.useless and boring....to be part of a creative relation one should have a creative self....Do you consider yourself a creative and unique woman?...what is your art?...lol

[zep]

I agree that it is not human nature to be alone, but there is nothing natural about households with only one male and one female either. Humans evolved living in groups of a few families. Up to less than a 100 years ago it was the norm for generations and extended families to all live in the same home. The one man, one women and possibly children household is a very new and unnatural occurrence and I think it's a big reason depression rates have increased. Humans are *very* social and romantic relationships are not enough!

 

I'm saying this to make the point that I don't think the best way to cure your lonliness is a romantic relationship. Unfortunately, I've noticed on this site the lack of close friends often accompanies the lack of a romantic relationship. I think they are for the same reason. So I think instead of focusing exclusively on men you should think about how you can deepen and increase your friendships too. Deep intense friendships have always come naturally to me, so I don't know what advice to give to the OP or to others who lack strong relationships in their lives, other than not to be afraid to open up.

 

OP, you say "Often friends do not want to get too involved/take the friendship to any depth. This is too threatening for many people and they often don’t wish to have to give too much as they are already devoted to their immediate families ie." Surely you recognize that this isn't universally true, or even true most of the time. This is obviously *your* view on things. Maybe you think that if you have close friendships you'll be picking that over a romantic one? That there is only so much energy/love you have and you don't want to waste it on friends? I would explore that further, as I have always noticed that the people with the deep, satisfying friendships have deep satisfying family relationships as well, including romantic. The human heart grows. The more loved ones you have the more love you have to give, and even more love comes to you.

[Ms Darcy]

well said zep.

[chickydoodle]

Often friends do not want to get too involved/take the friendship to any depth. This is too threatening for many people and they often don’t wish to have to give too much as they are already devoted to their immediate families ie."

 

Unfortunately I think Poppies is correct with this perception. Many people in their late 40's are pre-occupied with family and kids, doing it tough in their own way and unable to find time to make new acquaintances.

 

I also think Poppies is correct when she perceives how difficult it is to meet attractive men in this age group. esp if you are younger looking than your years and in good shape; many men in this age group are not so attracvtive AND want to be with women in their 30's.

 

I would advise finding a passion; something you enjoy doing, preferrably a creative outlet.....or take up a new hobby,

and let go of the need of a r'ship to fill the hours - for now anyway-

I think it will happen once you let go of resisting your lonliness.

 

I am v lonely too at the moment but I do not want a r'ship to fill this void. I would like to magically find my true self ( without having to put in any effort.....hah! )

[Cherry009]

Unfortunately I think Poppies is correct with this perception. Many people in their late 40's are pre-occupied with family and kids, doing it tough in their own way and unable to find time to make new acquaintances.

 

I agree, most women in their 40s are occupied with their families. Even if the OP did see friends, say a few nights a week it still doesnt fill that lonely feeling of wanting a partnership with someone, someone to hold you, to tell about your day and all the other intimate things that come with a relationship (physically and mentally). You can fill your day with hobbies and seeing friends etc but it doesnt change the fact that you are going home to an empty house, to an empty bed and never quite escaping that lonely feeling. I totally get where you are coming from OP, you want to share your life with someone, it's the most natural thing in the world.

[zep]

I'm sure the OP is not the only single childless (or empty nester) late 40s woman in her area. There will *always* be excuses available if you don't want to do something. Instead of looking for all the reasons you can't be happy pay attention to the ways you can. There *are* other people out there in your position who could be wonderful friends to you and enrich your life in many ways. Friends that could alleviate your loneliness.

 

I've grown up watching my mother have incredibly strong close female friendships, and that didn't change when they all had kids. I grew up calling my moms best friends my aunts and I am as closer to them than I am my real aunts and uncles. Now my father is mentally fading (due to illness) and my mom is strong because of her friendships. I get it that this website is called eNotAlone and there are a lot of people on here who have struggled to make and keep connections with other people, but it blows me away how little priority people here seem to give friendships, and how high importance they give to romantic relationships.

 

Studies show time and again it is number of close confidants *besides a romantic partner* that determine how happy and healthy a person is. You can be happy and fulfilled without a romantic relationship. But NO ONE is happy without friends. Even introverts statistically are shown to be happier when they have friends.

[Poppies]

Zep - thank you for your reply. You said 'Humans are *very* social and romantic relationships are not enough!

I'm saying this to make the point that I don't think the best way to cure your lonliness is a romantic relationship. Unfortunately, I've noticed on this site the lack of close friends often accompanies the lack of a romantic relationship"

 

But romatic relationships are enough for me. And I have been in two long romantic relationships without having close friends, and was happy. Romantic relationships are much more important to me than close friends. The reality is that it is not easy to find people to trust, to open up to, to be real friends with. That's been my experience. Friends can also be just as unreliable/untrustworthy/transient as a romantic relationship. I'm afraid that is the reality too.

I do agree that it is not healthy to not have any friends and to rely on just a man but, how do you make friends, especially as you get older? I admit that I have found it difficult to make friends in the past and that I would like to make friends but it really does not seem to be easy at all...I am a sensitive, caring person and I don't find too many people around like me. ChickyDoodle has pinpointed the difficulties.

ChickyDoodle - thank you for sharing. I, of course, agree with what you say. Those are the difficulties. Many men are not attractive at this age.....my ex-partner was 10 years younger than me. I almost wish now that we hadn't split up....it was under difficult circumstances. Also, at times I found it extremely frustrating to be with someone who was so much less experienced that me, but unfortunately now there is no going back. I think I am finding my true self but it has been at the cost of a lot of pain and suffering in recent years and coming face to face with the reality of the dreadful dysfucnitonal family I grew up in where there was no love.

 

Ms Darcy - I would like some help but the NHS in this country is in a dire state, waiting lists are long and patients often are not treated well in every sense of that word. I am waiting for counselling, have been assessesed and then been told there is yet another waiting list. However, I think that the best way of growing/developing is through a healthy, loving relationship - that can give you much, much more anything else in life. YOu make it sound easy - just get out there and do things. Yes, I really do need to sleep - that is a key for me, but again, almost impossible to achieve unless I took some pretty heavy duty medication. Then it is still very difficult to function the next day as the quality of sleep is not good. I am so terribly frustrated with aspects of my life, and so despondant as well, and overwhelmed many times too when I think about the positiion i am in, and the things that I may need to deal with to try to make things better. The I start thinking so negatively, 'what if this happens, that never happens etc...' I get scared of the future. It's really not easy living life on your own.

 

Cherry009 - thank you for sharing - that's it, and it is very very difficult to be alone and, as i said in my title, very painful at times. So, how do we make things better?

And, this is to everyone - I crave that intimacy (all of it - touching, sex etc), that deep connection and bond with someone - you can't get the same thing with friends, can you? We must all feel this as single people, mustn't we? How do you deal with that?

[zep]

And I have been in two long romantic relationships without having close friends, and was happy. Romantic relationships are much more important to me than close friends. The reality is that it is not easy to find people to trust, to open up to, to be real friends with. That's been my experience.

 

I think this is why you are single today I don't know what to tell you to help you, but if you go to therapy to work out these issues I think I would figure out why you've found it difficult to form (trusting, opening up) and maintain close relationships with ALL people, not just men. I really think the lack of a life-long relationship is for the exact reasons as lack of life-long friendships.

[zep]

how do you make friends, especially as you get older? I admit that I have found it difficult to make friends in the past and that I would like to make friends but it really does not seem to be easy at all...I am a sensitive, caring person and I don't find too many people around like me. ChickyDoodle has pinpointed the difficulties.

I am not sure I don't know why it is easier to connect to some people than others. Most of my friendships have felt instantly comfortable with the person and that they just "got" me. Usually it starts by us laughing at the same things. I would say find an activity or hobby where you see the same people regularly (more than once a week). Pottery class? Poetry reading? Ask women to coffee the same way you would ask a man. If you meet a single woman your age assume she wants a new friend and operate with the assumption that she wants to spend time with you. Because she does! You can go ahead and say "I like you, and I've been looking for new friends. Do you want to be friends?" And she will laugh and hug you and say "Of course!". Then you guys can go grocery shopping together, coffee, buy flowers for your garden and plant them together. Just do whatever one of you was going to do alone that day and do it together. The main thing I do with my friends is run errands and cook (and eat! haha) and watch TV.

 

I moved to a new country 3 years ago and it took my 1.5 years to find my people. I went out with the others I met but I never really clicked with them and I never wanted to spend days in a row with them. But then I met one friend in German class and it just clicked and I met other friends through them and now they are the people I spend 4 nights a week with. I just met them less than a year ago but I am *very* close to them. It's always a good time to make a new friend, you don't have to have known a person for years to get close to them.

 

And, this is to everyone - I crave that intimacy (all of it - touching, sex etc), that deep connection and bond with someone - you can't get the same thing with friends, can you? We must all feel this as single people, mustn't we? How do you deal with that?

 

Maybe this is more common in my generation, but I am extremely intimate with my female friends. I've taken baths with them, I've spray-tanned them butt naked, I've slept in the same bed with them many times, certainly they know every thing I've ever thought or done and I spend at least an hour each day texting or talking to one of them. Basically they get every detail of my life! lol! Honestly some porn and a vibrator before bed some nights on top of this is enough for me. I want a husband because I want to start a family and have kids, but it's not because I crave intimacy. I am not lonely.

 

My mom has these super-close friendships as well, only she is 63 and her friendships are 40 years old. Her best friend's super healthy marathon running husband (my "uncle") died 3 years ago of a brain aneurism. Now my "aunt" and "cousin" spend their christmas's and easter with our family. They live in different states but my mom has never gone more than 6 weeks without seeing my Aunt since her husband died. My parents have been married 35 years and now my dad has Alzheimers, and he's slipping away. It's my moms friends she's relying on as she now moves into a caretaker role. Even if you meet the perfect man tomorrow, it is very likely that you will soon be in one of these situations, and I think they will be unimaginably difficult without a friendship support system.

 

"Friendship multiplies the good of life and divides the evil."

[chickydoodle]

I think I am finding my true self but it has been at the cost of a lot of pain and suffering in recent years and coming face to face with the reality of the dreadful dysfucnitonal family I grew up in where there was no love.

 

I think most of us with childhood issues have a lot of healing to do , and are very complicated regarding the kind of r'ships we can form with others.

Joining yoga classes or meditation group may help you form bonds with like minded people who are on a path of healing/self discovery.

It is hard to relate to others on a superficial level when one is carrying pain.

It is hard to acess the energy and strength you need when feeling jaded.....

Meditation ( if you have the energy and inclination) really is the best way to tap into your true self; the strength, self-Love; positivity that lies at our core....but has been clouded over by harsh experiences in life.

[cocoon2012]

one should not import the "SELF" through others whether it is the immediate family or friends, or other things..it is called self importance(importing the self from outside)..and when the object of importance is fading or it is not available anymore our SELF will be in trouble and dis-ease......this is the law of the nature that"We are going to lose whomever or whatever we can not live without"mother nature want us to be complete in ourselves.....Relations and friendships are the means and not the meanings!...

[Cherry009]

 

Maybe this is more common in my generation, but I am extremely intimate with my female friends. I've taken baths with them, I've spray-tanned them butt naked, I've slept in the same bed with them many times, certainly they know every thing I've ever thought or done and I spend at least an hour each day texting or talking to one of them. Basically they get every detail of my life! lol! Honestly some porn and a vibrator before bed some nights on top of this is enough for me. I want a husband because I want to start a family and have kids, but it's not because I crave intimacy. I am not lonely.

 

Realistically this is not what the OP wants is it. She wants the intimacy and closeness to a PARTNER not a friend. Yes i agree it will help with the lonely feelings a little to make new friends and see them regularly but there is a limit to how many times you can call up a friend and see them, especially a new friend who you dont know that well, they will have their own lives as well.

 

Op i think you should perseveer (not sure i spelt that right) with the online dating, eharmony sounds like it is the best one for people who are serious about online dating, they match you to exactly what you are looking for. Just take it light heartedley and see what comes from it, you have nothing to lose! You seem like a lovely person.

[zep]

Realistically this is not what the OP wants is it. She wants the intimacy and closeness to a PARTNER not a friend. Yes i agree it will help with the lonely feelings a little to make new friends and see them regularly but there is a limit to how many times you can call up a friend and see them, especially a new friend who you dont know that well, they will have their own lives as well.

 

Right, well I get that she clearly thinks she just wants a boyfriend. I think though, her real problem is loneliness, and for most of her life her only friend has been her partner. So she thinks its the romantic part that made her so happy, but more realistically it was that she had a good friend for once. Even just one good friend is better than zero!

 

The older a women gets the less men there are, and the less she can count on a boyfriend being her only friend. At her age making good female friends is easier than finding a good boyfriend, and the older she gets the more true this will be. I'm not telling the OP not to date, but I think she needs to be realistic about romance after childbearing years.

[chickydoodle]

she needs to be realistic about romance after childbearing years.

 

 

Divorce rate is high. Many people meet their best partners in later years.......

My ex's grandad married a childhood sweetheart at the age of 70yrs.

It is harder to mingle socially when you are in a particular age group and your peers talk endlessly about their kids; harder to find people who have other things to talk about.

But if you have the energy to seek out a r'ship and find 'the one' and do not have a history of attracting psychopaths, then r'ships formed in later years can be more rewarding.

Not every man and woman seek r'ships for the sake of procreating.

[zep]

Okay so how does the logic work that there are enough single men her age available for dating that she can put all her eggs in that basket but so few single women available for friendships that its not worth trying to make friends?

[Ms Darcy]

Right, well I get that she clearly thinks she just wants a boyfriend. I think though, her real problem is loneliness, and for most of her life her only friend has been her partner. So she thinks its the romantic part that made her so happy, but more realistically it was that she had a good friend for once. Even just one good friend is better than zero!

 

The older a women gets the less men there are, and the less she can count on a boyfriend being her only friend.

 

I agree with this aspect.

 

I am still stuck on this ... what is in your control and what is beyond your control. Yes she can try and try for a relationship. But it may not happen. Does that mean unhappiness forever? I don't really think so. There are so many other options ... in the interim.

 

If you are in a romantic relationship and that is enough for you (e.g. you don't need friends) then that means you are putting all of your emotional energy in the relationship. I think that can eventually burn the relationship out.

 

I would personally focus on being financially stable and sleeping. Perhaps getting some self-help books and I would actually consider adoption.

[chickydoodle]

At her age making good female friends is easier than finding a good boyfriend,

 

Do you know this to be true?

I think that many women in this age group have lived their identity as a mother, wife......so dont connect as easily with a woman who never had children; have less in common etc.

So my opinion is that it can be just as hard to meet a like minded woman in this age group esp if you have chosen not to have kids.

Of course both would be nice for OP.; like-minded male and female company.

but It is her preference to have a man friend/companion/ LOVER; someone to cuddle up with at night.

 

One can be even lonlier in the company of same sex people one does not connect with, than being alone.

 

And not every woman enjoys female companionship. It is a tad different to that of males.

 

Just my opinion.

[Poppies]

'I think this is why you are single today :sad: I don't know what to tell you to help you, but if you go to therapy to work out these issues I think I would figure out why you've found it difficult to form (trusting, opening up) and maintain close relationships with ALL people, not just men. I really think the lack of a life-long relationship is for the exact reasons as lack of life-long friendships.

Right, well I get that she clearly thinks she just wants a boyfriend. I think though, her real problem is loneliness, and for most of her life her only friend has been her partner. So she thinks its the romantic part that made her so happy, but more realistically it was that she had a good friend for once. Even just one good friend is better than zero!'

 

Thanks for your reply Zep - I have had two long relationships with men - one of 15 years and one of 8 years. The first one - it is true that he was all I felt I wanted and needed. He was an architect and we met at college. We really enjoyed eachothers company and talked a lot and I just didn't need anyone else. I had him and a very interesting and challenging job. And he said that he preferred to have a conversation with me rather than anyone else, and I agreed with him that I felt the same. I was happy with him. I loved his company - he was interesting, fairly sensitive, creative but also very practical. But it ended.....so...that's that. There were issues in the end, otherwise we wouldn't have finished.

It is true that I haven't been able to open up easily to other people in the past. I think trust is a big thing -there are some very unkind, selfish, nasty people in the world and as I have got older I have been shocked by some of the stories I have heard about relationships, and the deception and the betrayal that people are capable of - both lovers and friends. When you are younger the world seems a more benign place, as you get older, you experience more, learn more, find out about people's stories and the way you perceive the world changes.

I do agree with you that I do need to make friends though. It is a big issue with me, I know, and is something I should work on. I need to feel comfortable with other people and especially women. I agree that having only a partner in life is not enough.

I must say you certainly sound close to your girlfriends! I've never been intimate quite like that.... but I get where you area coming from. Maybe it is an age thing. A vibrator and porn mag are definitely not enough for me.....no where near. I only wish they were but these feel a pale imitation of the real thing and extremely unsatisfying when you compare with really good sex with a man who really turns you on and with whom you have some sort of connection.

[Poppies]

"Realistically this is not what the OP wants is it. She wants the intimacy and closeness to a PARTNER not a friend. Yes i agree it will help with the lonely feelings a little to make new friends and see them regularly but there is a limit to how many times you can call up a friend and see them, especially a new friend who you dont know that well, they will have their own lives as well"

 

Thank you for that Cherry. Yes, that's it exactly. Zep seems to have great close relationships with her friends, but I wonder if it is age related too.

 

"Op i think you should perseveer (not sure i spelt that right) with the online dating, eharmony sounds like it is the best one for people who are serious about online dating, they match you to exactly what you are looking for. Just take it light heartedley and see what comes from it, you have nothing to lose! You seem like a lovely person"

 

Thank you for that too. I have been told that I am a lovely person on several occasions so I guess I need to take some confidence from that, and I do need to go out and find 'HIM' but also make friends. I think neither one will come easily. I do often feel a lack of warmth from people,I am very sensitive, and immediately feel that maybe they don't like me or don't want to be friends. This may not be the correct or most positive interpretation......I often find people are not especially friendly either.....I am warm (half French/Italian) and find the British reserve a bit difficult.

E-Harmony .....hmmm. I'll think about it. I may just try to get out a bit more and see what comes of that. I tried Match and wasn't impressed.

[Poppies]

Divorce rate is high. Many people meet their best partners in later years.......

My ex's grandad married a childhood sweetheart at the age of 70yrs.

It is harder to mingle socially when you are in a particular age group and your peers talk endlessly about their kids; harder to find people who have other things to talk about.

But if you have the energy to seek out a r'ship and find 'the one' and do not have a history of attracting psychopaths, then r'ships formed in later years can be more rewarding.

Not every man and woman seek r'ships for the sake of procreating.

 

Thanks Chickydoodle - and yes! that is it. i think there is so much more to a male/female relationship than procreating. Otherwise, we are just reduced to animals. I would hope that the emotional/intellectual/physical come together on all levels - that's what I want, and need. And that's what I would hope to give in return.

I do know of a two or three couples who have had good relationships which began in their 50s. One is a woman who was very vulnerable, had had a breakdown after a marriage had finished, and been in a psychiatric hospital. met her partner whilst in recovery and he has loved, and taken care of her for 12 years. he's not the kind of man I would want but he loves her, she is very happy and healthy with him, and vice versa and that is the most important.

And I don't have a history of attracting psychopaths - the man upstairs is the nearest I have got to that in all these years. I had the strong feeling that he had the capacity to be an abuser. The signs were there from the beginning - sarcasm, put downs, intimidation....subtle, jokey, and interspered with some very wonderful aspects....but these were only in the first few weeks of getting together!

[zep]

Do you know this to be true?

I think that many women in this age group have lived their identity as a mother, wife......so dont connect as easily with a woman who never had children; have less in common etc.

So my opinion is that it can be just as hard to meet a like minded woman in this age group esp if you have chosen not to have kids.

 

I guess I've never done any research on it, but it seems like common sense to me.

 

I imagine there are just as many single childless women as men (if we are going with the assumption she would only connect to childless adults) and its a lot easier to make friends because:

 

1) you can have more than one friend! You don't have to worry about a potential friend being "taken" like you do a potential romantic partner.

2) You only have to connect with them personality wise, a friend doesn't care if you are physically attractive or if you have sexual chemistry. With a romantic partner you need to connect on both levels.

3) You don't have to compete with younger women for friends. I don't think I need to go into this further, we all know that the dating game is imbalanced after a certain age.

 

In fact the only reason I think getting a boyfriend is easier than friends when you are young is because men will really pursue young woman and do most of the awkward/risky initiating, whereas with friends you have to do half (or more!) of the work, especially in the beginning.

 

Of course both would be nice for OP.; like-minded male and female company.

but It is her preference to have a man friend/companion/ LOVER; someone to cuddle up with at night.

 

One can be even lonlier in the company of same sex people one does not connect with, than being alone.

 

And not every woman enjoys female companionship. It is a tad different to that of males.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I'm definitely not telling Poppies to forget men. I'm just telling her that if she had some friends she wouldn't have to feel painful loneliness while she looks for a man. It's not friends vs just a man. It's BOTH vs. just a man. I just don't think a romantic relationship is the only way to attain a settled, stable life and cure her loneliness. And honestly men usually look to the woman to create that stability for them, so I don't think Poppies will find a man until the stable home is already there waiting for them.

 

I just think we should all be as encouraging about how it is possible to make friends as we are about how it is possible to find love, because it is.

[Poppies]

Thank you all - I've read thorugh the rest of the posts and I'm going to reply tomorrow - we are all posting at the same time at the moment, and it's late in the UK now. See you tomorrow.