What to say when ex asks how are you?

[olesun]

The agreement is mutual. I believe NC is important, constructive and the necessary first step to getting your ex back. That's why I like your advice, Shane. You understand that.

I do, however, believe that others instructing it along with "Move on, forget her, get over him, you'll be happier without them" is completely unproductive. NC is complicated. It's not as simple as just "Never talk to them and then when they contact you, after ignoring them a few times and analyzing what their intentions are, maybe you can consider meeting for coffee and telling them you don't want to talk unless it's about the relationship". I don't know about men. But I do know a thing or two about women. And that is the FASTEST way to turn off any woman.

 

"This better be about us having sex and being in love again or I don't want to talk!"

 

Try that on a new girl you meet and see how far it gets you.

[Shane Falco]

shack, what you fail to realize is that you had the same "shortcomings" then that you do now. Maybe you could have gotten her back (I doubt it), but for what? I would guarantee you'd be in the exact same position that you are in now, maybe worse because you would have been broken up twice. The NC for you didn't work because you didn't try to address those shortcomings -- you tried to use it to elicit a response. You stayed stagnant.

 

As for now, I'm going to leave whatever communication you want to have with her up to you. But you really need to stop living in the past. You didn't f--k things up because you didn't swoop in right away to save the day, you f--ked up because you never took the steps to try to work on what you need to work on to take that next step forward.

[Shane Falco]

Depends on how drunk she is

[olesun]

This.

 

The truth is that you're continuing to f-ck up, Shack.

Right now, the conversation you have going with her is good.

But it's honestly a fluke. You're about an inch away from letting her know that you're basically in pieces over her everyday.

I personally think you have more work to do on yourself. I've told you this multiple times, but you don't want to believe it.

 

So, if you're going to force yourself into battle before you even have any armor on, for the love of god, take it slow.

Stop trying to rush things into a grand romantic reunion. Stop beating yourself up about the past.

[Vinny85]

Why would someone want to burn their house down in the first place? Not the best analogy I've ever seen. Personally, I think telling people what they want to hear if you don't agree with them is a terrible disservice. However, when I do that, I try to tell them the reasoning for why "they shouldn't burn their house down". Part of "getting back together" involves evolving from the behavior at the end of the previous relationship. NC is essential in that.

[/Quote]

 

Exactly the reason why I used this analogy. Just like you and I think "Why would people burn their house down", there are people here that think "Why would someone want their ex back?". All I am saying is: it's not wrong to have that thought, but would this board be the right place for people with this thought? Furthermore, as I stated before I agree on the fact that NC is a part of the process. However, it's often presented as 'the' process, instead of an important part of it

 

And yes, ideally everyone will go to the "Healing" section first and deal with those things before coming over here. But that doesn't happen and will never happen. Dumpees want their ex back first and feel that that's the only way to "heal". When that's rarely the case. Therefore you have to get them to the first stage, which often involves NC. You can't win the championship until you have the foundation to qualify for the playoffs. That's what the "NC, move on" advice is meant to do.

 

When presented in that way, I have no problem with NC. Again, it's often presented in a different way, like it's the only thing you need to do to get your ex back. The best way would tell this people to go visit the healing board first if they want to make a chance to get their ex back. There they will get the NC advice. Ofcourse the same advice can be given here, as long as it's presented as the first step in a plan containing multiple steps.

 

You seem to think that, using your burning house analogy, that the best answer for someone who wants to do that is give them a blowtorch and a vat of kerosene. I prefer to instruct them on fire safety.

 

I think I understand why you are thinking that, but it's not what I am trying to say. I would prefer to first instruct them on fire safety aswell. However, I would also tell them that after that they will need the blowtorch and the kerosine. I would never pretend the safety instructions will light their house for them. Please understand I am not pretending to say you are the one that is giving this advice. Only that there seem to be a lot of people on this board who actually tend to do so.

 

I agree with a lot of what olesun says because he recognizes the value of NC has a tool to settle one's emotions. It's part of the process. I don't like what rosa says because she sees things in the same narrow scope that she claims the pro-NC people to have, not to mention she tends to cross the line and insult posters for their differing points of view from time to time.

 

I don't know if I agree with the way Rosa is doing what she is doing, but I do support what she is doing. Also I think you, olesun and me are on the same line about NC. But again, I think it's presented in the wrong way way to often. It's sometimes even like people don't read the OP. They open a thread, instantly put their cursor in the 'quick reply'-box and write things like: "Just go NC" or "Forget about her".

[rosasnyder811]

The bottom line is No Contact is ABUSIVE if used as a tactic to get back with someone. It is meant to be used to get rid of someone, period. The Silent treatment is considered abuse. Read about it, anywhere. NC is silent treatment, therefore if you use it against someone you care about, it is abuse.

Now, if you TELL someone that you won't be contacting them for awhile, that is NOT no contact. You are COMMUNICATING what you are doing, instead of acting like a middle school student and ignoring them. Adults handle their business. Children don't. That is the difference.

The only time that it is truly acceptable to use no contact is when you are trying to get over someone, that is it.

If you want them back, you contact them, you communicate with them. Don't want to talk to them? Communicate that. Need some time for yourself without talking to them? Communicate that.

Show the person you care about respect. Otherwise, you are just purposely trying to hurt them and not only is that immature, as I stated---it is abusive.

You stand no chance of a long and worthwhile relationship if you are ignoring, abusing, and acting childish.

 

You are still in a relationship when you are broken up if you want to get back together. You may not be in a romantic relationship, but you do care for each other, and so there is a relationship. Keep that in mind.

[olesun]

It depends on the definition of NC, Rosa.

I personally believe more in the concept of NIC (No Initiated Contact) as being important for the first steps of reconciliation.

Calling your ex and trying to talk all the time about your relationship when they don't want to is also abusive. It's called harassment.

 

I also don't think it's necessary to communicate that you're not going to communicate.

I do, however, agree that ignoring their attempts is "the silent treatment" and is more vengeful than constructive.

[rosasnyder811]

I agree with you on this. However, I disagree on the other part---

If you don't communicate what is happening, it can create all sorts of unecessary feelings for the other person. They will wonder why they aren't hearing from you. They will wonder if you have moved on, and might come to the conclusion that they should move on, too.

The best thing to do is say --- "Hey, I need to do some work on myself so I can be the best I can be. You won't hear from me for awhile, but I just want you to know I still exist. if you need or want to talk during this time, I will be here to listen and respond, but you won't hear from me for this amount of time."

Then you just leave it at that. If they respond, great. If they don't, that also doesn't mean anything. Silence can speak volumes, and if you don't communicate, then you can lose the very thing you're trying to get back.

Lack of communication is #1 on the list of relationship failures. So, my whole thing is---if that's the fact---then how is NOT communicating what you're doing outside of the relationship going to help you get back in a relationship?

 

 

It depends on the definition of NC, Rosa.

I personally believe more in the concept of NIC (No Initiated Contact) as being important for the first steps of reconciliation.

Calling your ex and trying to talk all the time is also abusive. It's called harassment.

 

I also don't think it's necessary to communicate that you're not going to communicate.

I do, however, agree that ignoring their attempts is "the silent treatment" and is more vengeful than constructive.

[Shane Falco]

Vinny, I also think that sometimes the "NC, move on" response is necessary for a person to hear at that particular time. Because let's face it, the amount of people who are actually going to move on on a forum that called "Getting Back Together" just from being told to move on is 1 percent, if that. The advice you give someone is usually predicated on the stage of the breakup they are in. I've told people to "NC, move on" knowing full well that they wouldn't even come close to moving on. But if being told to "move on" can start the process of healing and evolving, then it can be valuable. When they've taken those steps and still haven't moved on, they are in position to actually make a good attempt at reconciliation instead of pissing into the wind.

[rosasnyder811]

The problem is that people say these things to people that don't stand a chance of staying apart---their bond and situation is too strong, but the negativity and nastiness of some people drives them to provide this advice. Seen it too much.

Sometimes, yes---this is necessary, but many times, no.

 

Vinny, I also think that sometimes the "NC, move on" response is necessary for a person to hear at that particular time. Because let's face it, the amount of people who are actually going to move on on a forum that called "Getting Back Together" just from being told to move on is 1 percent, if that. The advice you give someone is usually predicated on the stage of the breakup they are in. I've told people to "NC, move on" knowing full well that they wouldn't even come close to moving on. But if being told to "move on" can start the process of healing and evolving, then it can be valuable. When they've taken those steps and still haven't moved on, they are in position to actually make a good attempt at reconciliation instead of pissing into the wind.

[Shane Falco]

Sometimes, yes---this is necessary, but many times, no.

 

I feel the same way about your NC=abuse mindset as well. I'm sure it can be abuse, but most times it's not in the same ballpark as abuse.

 

And I really don't understand what you mean by their "bond and situation is so strong". If it was strong, then it wouldn't have been broken. I don't really understand what you are trying to say here.

[Vinny85]

Vinny, I also think that sometimes the "NC, move on" response is necessary for a person to hear at that particular time. Because let's face it, the amount of people who are actually going to move on on a forum that called "Getting Back Together" just from being told to move on is 1 percent, if that. The advice you give someone is usually predicated on the stage of the breakup they are in. I've told people to "NC, move on" knowing full well that they wouldn't even come close to moving on. But if being told to "move on" can start the process of healing and evolving, then it can be valuable. When they've taken those steps and still haven't moved on, they are in position to actually make a good attempt at reconciliation instead of pissing into the wind.

 

Truth be told, I am quite fond of your posts on this forum. To be honest, reading your posts and advices in topics about others have also helped me when I needed it. The reason for this is that you, just like olesun, really seem to think about your posts. You seem to analyze the specific situation, take time to think about it and then respond with what you think is best. Not only do you do that, you also tell WHY and explain the things you are saying. And yes, in that way, NC sometimes, if not a lot of times, is the best thing to advice.

 

However, my problem is with all those users here that do not. In most of the replies you just taste the fact that they are still hurt themselves and don't know how to handle things. Like I said, sometimes it looks like they did not even read the initial post, but just are venting their own anger or bitterness in their replies to others. While fully understandable (most people are here because they are heartbroken themselves, just like me) it's not really constructive. To be honest, I have a lot of things about my own situation I would like to share on this forum, however, I don't. The reason? Because I allready know what the first page of replies is going to contain. I personally don't care a lot, since I know it's probably the best in my situation anyway. But I think it says a lot that I rather refrain from sharing my situation here, because of that reason. I have stopped having any faith whatsoever that even if a different advice would be appropriate for my situation, it would be given. For the same reason I don't open any topics on any other forums like this one. I see it happen everywhere.

 

Anyway, I think we are basically on the same page with everything.

[olesun]

Eh. Maybe it's me, but I try not to date people who would be genuinely confused why I may stop contacting them for a while after they broke my heart.

If they asked, I'd be sure to let them know. But I would hope the answer would be obvious. Not exactly rocket science, there.

 

I do agree that communication is absolutely imperative in any relationship. Friend or girlfriend, poor communication is the quickest way to lose me.

 

 

 

I think we disagree here. I do see how it could be constructive. But some people have varying degrees of strength. There are some people you can say this to and they'll get exactly the meaning you're going to get accross. There are some people here that are so desperate, right on the verge of a complete nervous breakdown and looking for a TINY glimpse of guiding light that will take that advice to heart in a way that will set them back. Being told "Hey, it's possible. But right now, you need to leave him/her alone for a bit and get yourself back to being the person you used to be" can go miles.

 

Granted, I tried to do that with my thread and since then, I've gotten numerous PMs asking me if I know the likelihood of them getting back together. It's a bit frustrating. And I can see why "Move on" would be an easy thing to do. But let's be real, if you're handing out advice on a message board and taking your personal time to do it; you may as well do it right.

[chamachama]

Rose I think some of the friction here resides in your ridged manor of posting. Stop calling things stupid and immature when in reality you're talking about something that really does in many cases help people whether by moving on and avoiding undue pain or by giving themselves and their ex's a new perspective. I can tell you from my rather vast experience regarding breakups, once a BU is established most of the time the dumpee has little chance at changing the dumpers view of them at that point. And by constantly trying to change that view they end up pushing their ex's farther and farther away. Because in essence they are performing acts that their ex's already expected from them thereby validating and compounding their original assessment of things leading up to their decision to part ways....

 

The silent treatment by someone who is actually IN a current relationship, sure I think that's passive aggressive and harsh. But we are talking about post BU so that statement is not valid at all. It is not "abuse" (btw abuse to me is obviously not the same as it is to you) for two people who are not in a relationship to not speak to each other. In fact, most of the time that is very much the ending result and the most positive result as well. Sometimes a BU is simply the way things need to be and the two people were simply not meant for each other.

 

I guess I will just end in saying that I very much believe in my latest decision. I am very happy that NC was established because at the end neither of us were thinking clearly at all. As the months passed without contact, my resentment for her dissipated and obviously hers did for me too. And if I do decide to contact her on my own, it will not be to get back with her. It will be to simply see how she is and maybe salvage a friendship although obviously not on the level we once had it. I only reserve that type of attention and connection for those who I am actually with.

[Vinny85]

The silent treatment by someone who is actually IN a current relationship, sure I think that's passive aggressive and harsh. But we are talking about post BU so that statement is not valid at all. It is not "abuse" (btw abuse to me is obviously not the same as it is to you) for two people who are not in a relationship to not speak to each other.

 

I know your comment wasn't aimed at me, however I would like to react on this.

 

I don't think 'not speaking to eachother' is the same as 'the silent treatment'. The point that I think Rosa is trying to make (and I agree with) is that it's perfectly ok to not speak to each other, as long as you communicate why, or at least let the other know you are doing so.. Silent treatment is just going under without notice. If a BU was on good terms, I do think that is childish at least. Rosa, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Furthermore, I agree with Rosa that after BU you are still in a 'relationship', just not of the same kind it was.

[markie6]

 

You are still in a relationship when you are broken up if you want to get back together. You may not be in a romantic relationship, but you do care for each other, and so there is a relationship. Keep that in mind.

 

I think if you both want to try and get back together then this would make more sense. Clearly when 1 person wants out and doesn't want back in, there is no relationship of any sort. I can see both sides of the argument on abuse and harrasment, depends which side of the fence you are sitting on. We see many occasions on these boards where people are causing each other more pain by staying in touch. A cooling off period can be very beneficial for both the dumper, who wants out without the fuss and the dumpee whose head is spinning. Trying to get people to stop making things worse by trying to change somebodies mind helps more often than it hinders

 

More often than not, the person who wants out will not be swayed by somebody blowing their phone up, they have already called time on it and normaly it's not a spur of the moment decision.

 

I think the jury is still out on the number 1 cause of relationship failures ,while communication could help keep more people together, when they want the relationship to be over, for whatever reason brought them to that conclusion it will be over for good. We all know reconcilliations occur, but they are a small %. No amount of communication would work to bring an ex back who doesn't want that to happen.

 

And just so we are all clear , I can't think of a time when I ever suggested NC as a means to get an ex back. I will often try and get people to stop making things worse for themselves, but like we all seem to realise, when they turn up here it's often a little too late.

 

I think those of us who spend a lot of time posting here, trying to help would be thrilled if the OP had his ex come back to him. This is what we want, how we get there is up for debate. A debate that would be better served with slightly less hostility all round

[chamachama]

I know your comment wasn't aimed at me, however I would like to react on this.

 

I don't think 'not speaking to eachother' is the same as 'the silent treatment'. The point that I think Rosa is trying to make (and I agree with) is that it's perfectly ok to not speak to each other, as long as you communicate why, or at least let the other know you are doing so.. Silent treatment is just going under without notice. If a BU was on good terms, I do think that is childish at least. Rosa, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Furthermore, I agree with Rosa that after BU you are still in a 'relationship', just not of the same kind it was.

 

 

If people need to go NC usually it is because it was not on good terms(i.e. one wants it, the other doesn't etc...). If you told me that I have to speak to my ex-wife because I was still in a relationship with her I would tell you to go take a flying leap into Lake Winnapasuckit=P Believe me when I tell you that while we certainly don't hate each other, we are better off in separate lives lol.

 

Post Breakup the two people can do as they please. It is not childish to not want to be in anguish and pain resulting from contact.

[Vinny85]

By 'in good terms' I didn't mean the BU was two sided, just that it was not ended by a fight or abuse. "Relationship" is just how you define it. As long as people are getting along at some level, I think it could be concidered a relationship. However, most people use the term 'relationship' only when it's about an actual romantic one. I think that causes the confusion. You don't need to speak to someone because you are in a relationship, just don't give them the silent treatment, which I think is something different.

 

So no, it's not childish to refrain from having contact. I think it's just about the way you do it.

[Shane Falco]

Appreciate the kind words.

[matti]

If people need to go NC usually it is because it was not on good terms(i.e. one wants it, the other doesn't etc...). If you told me that I have to speak to my ex-wife because I was still in a relationship with her I would tell you to go take a flying leap into Lake Winnapasuckit=P Believe me when I tell you that while we certainly don't hate each other, we are better off in separate lives lol.

 

Post Breakup the two people can do as they please. It is not childish to not want to be in anguish and pain resulting from contact.

 

I agree. After all, I'm in in a very similar situation. I won't contact my ex-gf, because I'd prefer not to do more damage that I've already done up until this point. I was in NC for a little over a month until some logistical BS happened, which prompted her to contact and notify me, which we were forced to then converse. However, it was her who initiated contact, as you won't catch me dead trying to contact her right now for any reason, regardless of the importance. I'm too focused on self-improvement right now, haha. Call it childish, selfish, etc. However, I could say the same about her for blowing me off as she did

[olesun]

I think those of us who spend a lot of time posting here, trying to help would be thrilled if the OP had his ex come back to him. This is what we want, how we get there is up for debate. A debate that would be better served with slightly less hostility all round

 

I agree. Unfortunately, I think the "move on, forget about her" approach is lazy and in some ways, hostile.

 

If people need to go NC usually it is because it was not on good terms(i.e. one wants it, the other doesn't etc...). If you told me that I have to speak to my ex-wife because I was still in a relationship with her I would tell you to go take a flying leap into Lake Winnapasuckit=P Believe me when I tell you that while we certainly don't hate each other, we are better off in separate lives lol.

 

Post Breakup the two people can do as they please. It is not childish to not want to be in anguish and pain resulting from contact.

 

Agreed. However, this has absolutely no place in terms of reconciliation. You don't WANT to reconcile with your wife. So what good is this advice here?

 

I agree. After all, I'm in in a very similar situation. I won't contact my ex-gf, because I'd prefer not to do more damage that I've already done up until this point. I was in NC for a little over a month until some logistical BS happened, which prompted her to contact and notify me, which we were forced to then converse. However, it was her who initiated contact, as you won't catch me dead trying to contact her right now for any reason, regardless of the importance. I'm too focused on self-improvement right now, haha. Call it childish, selfish, etc. However, I could say the same about her for blowing me off as she did

 

Which is an attitude, I can assure you as someone who actually HAS their ex girlfriend back, will never help you reconcile..

And if you do, it won't last. Because holding any kind of resentment towards someone is not a healthy basis for reconciliation.

I'm very glad that you're working on yourself. And if you're propelled to do so out of a sense of fear or bitterness, then it's hard to argue with.

But your bitterness is obvious with this statement: "However, I could say the same about her for blowing me off as she did "

And this is something you will eventually have to tackle, should you decide you want her back.

 

This isn't a revenge game. This board is about reconciliation.

 

I genuinely believe that you guys want to help. All I'm saying is that I think the mood could lift a bit.

If you can't bring yourself to tell these people that they have at LEAST a shot at getting back together; at least focus on rebuilding them as a person with some positivity.

[shackazu]

this has been very enlightening. but i am still at a loss as to how i should treat this overall situation of mine--should i stay NIC for the time being while working on myself, knowing that since we are so far apart, any opportunity to really reconcile will probably come in the future? Or should I continue this conversation I am having with her, and work back up to the emotional closeness that we had right after the breakup? Like, working my way from emails to texting to phone calls, knowing that this communication may continue indefinitely?

 

And given that she has expressed to me her desire to be close friends, is this a good idea? On the one hand, I think this just betrays that she still has some feelings for me, because who really wants that badly to be close friends with an ex that you are moved on from? But I don't want to just get trapped into being a friend, and if reconnecting after a long period of absence is the better play, then I'll do it.

[olesun]

I say this with all due respect, Shack.

 

Do you have some difficulty reading what's being said? Or are you just having trouble accepting it?

Because it feels like I'm typing to a brick wall here. I'm not sure what part you're having trouble with.

 

1. You are still, still, STILL trying to read her mind. This will get you nowhere. Please stop. Just please.

It will get you nowhere. I promise you. You will NEVER be able to figure out her intentions through the deductive reasoning, reading tea leaves, guessing games, etc. It's a waste of time.

 

2. You're being given explicit directions about what to do and still seem confused. Is it the wording? You're worried about being "trapped into being just friends". Can you actually give me a single example of a human being you know that is friends with someone because they're being forced to? Reconnect with her. Be her friend. Earn her trust again. If the feelings come, they come. If they don't, they don't. You aren't forced to be her friend. But if you can't be her friend first, you can't be anything more. Your relationship was not long enough, the two of you are separated geographically and you have absolutely no idea what she wants; how the hell can you expect more?

 

Honestly, man. I'm starting to think you should just go back into NC and not talk, think about or even bother communicating with this girl for several months. Because you're completely lacking the confidence required to make this work. You don't believe in yourself. You beat yourself up. You aren't listening to advice. You aren't sure if you can be her friend. You aren't sure what to say. You don't know if the mistakes you made in the past are still ruining things. You have no confidence.

 

Tell me what the problem is. Seriously. I'm listening.

And I really want to help.

[shackazu]

Thanks Olesun.

 

I hear everything you are saying, I do. I know that I need to be able to move on with my own life, get happy with myself, be confident, tackle my problems. I'm going to. I have an appointment to go meet with a counselor about my identity insecurities etc. But you're right, I am having a problem with all of this.

 

Because while on an intellectual level I understand everything that you and the others have told me, on an emotional level it's tougher than that. Because I still feel this pit of missing her in my stomach. I still cringe when I think that she may be dating, hooking up, whatever. And being super proud of the things she is accomplishing this year, which just makes me wish even more that I were experiencing all these things with her. And then the missing and feeling in love alternates to anger, to guilt, to hurt, to feigned indifference, to hate, to fear. Looking at what I did wrong before and fearing that I don't have endless opportunities, that if I don't do the exact right things now, it's more nails in the coffin. And it hurts to talk to her even as a friend knowing that she is at least wanting if not pursuing/being pursued by others. And all of this will still hurt even if she comes back.

 

You already pointed out my problem. I used to be at least somewhat optimistic that I could get her back, because I thought that she still had strong feelings for me. Hearing her say to my face "I don't love you" "I don't want you" "I want someone more emotionally developed than me not less" That killed my confidence.

 

And yeah, I told her that it would take a while but that maybe someday I would get back in touch..so maybe her silence was respecting what I said. But she still didn't contact me for a month after my visit, until she was forced to by forwarding an email to me that was sent to her.

 

I'm sure that's just a repeat of everything I have said, and I know that you don't have all the answers. What you have told me makes the most sense. Stay in touch, see what happens... It just doesn't seem very hopeful, and I still need to learn how to do that but also move on with my life in the meantime and not keep putting myself on hold for her, which won't be attractive anyway.

[olesun]

Because while on an intellectual level I understand everything that you and the others have told me, on an emotional level it's tougher than that. Because I still feel this pit of missing her in my stomach. I still cringe when I think that she may be dating, hooking up, whatever.

 

She doesn't belong to you. And you would be doing yourself a favor to stop thinking about that.

 

Looking at what I did wrong before and fearing that I don't have endless opportunities, that if I don't do the exact right things now, it's more nails in the coffin. And it hurts to talk to her even as a friend knowing that she is at least wanting if not pursuing/being pursued by others. And all of this will still hurt even if she comes back.

 

Again, she doesn't belong to you. You're venturing into "creep" territory here, man. It doesn't matter if other men hit on her.

I know it's painful to think about. But the only nails in the coffin are the ones you're putting there yourself by not calming down.

 

You already pointed out my problem. I used to be at least somewhat optimistic that I could get her back, because I thought that she still had strong feelings for me. Hearing her say to my face "I don't love you" "I don't want you" "I want someone more emotionally developed than me not less" That killed my confidence.

 

It's not about optimism. Optimism is for children. Confidence is for grown men like yourself. And I don't blame her for saying that you're not emotionally developed.

I'm getting frustrated with you, because I know you're intelligent enough to tackle this and you're refusing to and choosing instead to brood over it.

 

And yeah, I told her that it would take a while but that maybe someday I would get back in touch..so maybe her silence was respecting what I said. But she still didn't contact me for a month after my visit, until she was forced to by forwarding an email to me that was sent to her.

 

Irrelevant.

 

I'm sure that's just a repeat of everything I have said, and I know that you don't have all the answers. What you have told me makes the most sense. Stay in touch, see what happens... It just doesn't seem very hopeful, and I still need to learn how to do that but also move on with my life in the meantime and not keep putting myself on hold for her, which won't be attractive anyway.

 

You're still missing the boat here, man.

 

You need to work on yourself. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean "Oh, I'll go to the gym and work harder at work!" in your case. It means you need to start seriously tackling these insecurities. Going to see that counselor is a good first step. You've seriously got your head in a knot right now and you need to calm down considerably before you can even remotely consider doing anything with this girl. I'm being honest, dude. You've made this girl the center of your universe and I have no doubt in my mind that if she casually mentioned seeing someone else to you; you would lose it. And that's not healthy, attractive or even remotely okay.

 

I know what the pain you're talking about feels like. Believe me. I'm a successful man. I was mortified that some girl could along and completely devastate my world.

But whether you're going to live WITH her or WITHOUT her, you need to get back on your damn feet.