Married 28 years and trying to understand wife's lesbian affair

[LovelyLezo]

What would you do if your wife had an affair with a man and refused to break it off?

 

She is bi-sexual. She is a cheater. She is a lair. And, she is asking you to stick around and just accept her behavior.

 

There are more issues than simply being a "cheater". Dealing with sexuality in a world that is largely unaccepting or unsupportive is a complex thing. This may well be the first time hurting guy's wife has had the opportunity to act on something she may have been thinking about for a while. I think that hurting guy had it right when he suggested that the root of the matter is his wife's sexuality.

[LovelyLezo]

It is up to her to face the music with "the public," not you.

 

I know it is not comforting to think about, but adultery is a Biblically supported reason for divorce. Some people DO heal and mend after an affair but her unwillingness to end the affair is troubling. I can't even begin to think how this will affect your young men. I hope she also considered that aspect of her decision to cheat.

 

Wow, the criticism here bewilders me... I wonder how many of you have actually come out of the closet and experienced the pain, alienation and self judgement that comes with it? Jeez. Hat's off to hurting guy for being empathetic and understanding. After 28 years, you could almost understand somebody being supportive and concerned about his wife's welfare. abitbroken, i'm sure you've faced the music with the public, perhaps you came out of the closet in a small, country town?

[DN]

Wow, the criticism here bewilders me... I wonder how many of you have actually come out of the closet and experienced the pain, alienation and self judgement that comes with it? Jeez. Hat's off to hurting guy for being empathetic and understanding. After 28 years, you could almost understand somebody being supportive and concerned about his wife's welfare. abitbroken, i'm sure you've faced the music with the public, perhaps you came out of the closet in a small, country town?

This is all very well but she is making self-indulgent and selfish decisions badly affecting a man that she claims to love and to whom she promised to be faithful. It's too late to claim sympathy for bravely coming out of the closet. You don't hurt other people in this way - no excuses.

[lukeb]

This is all very well but she is making self-indulgent and selfish decisions badly affecting a man that she claims to love and to whom she promised to be faithful. It's too late to claim sympathy for bravely coming out of the closet. You don't hurt other people in this way - no excuses.

 

Its not about claiming sympathy or who is right or wrong it is about where do you go from here? There doesn't have to be only one way to respond to this and it isn't necessary to vilify your partner in order to make a decision. You can make a decision without vilifying the other person to do something that works for you. In this case though it doesn't look like a solution is possible, but for many couples it can be.

[DN]

Its not about claiming sympathy or who is right or wrong it is about where do you go from here? There doesn't have to be only one way to respond to this and it isn't necessary to vilify your partner in order to make a decision. You can make a decision without vilifying the other person to do something that works for you. In this case though it doesn't look like a solution is possible, but for many couples it can be.

To use the pejorative 'vilifying' is a debating technique but it has no value in real life. Cheating however is not a matter for esotericism, it is just plain wrong.

[lukeb]

To use the pejorative 'vilifying' is a debating technique but it has no value in real life. Cheating however is not a matter for esotericism, it is just plain wrong.

 

It is not a debating technique, it is a very common thing you can also see on here. Where the one person seems to feel the need to make the other person the bad one. (ie vilifying) Rather than looking at it as an issue of right or wrong, the OP should be looking at it from the perspective of what would work for him and what would work for his wife. Issues in relationships aren't solved by the absolute concepts of right or wrong because it leaves no room for compromise. What do you say to those couples who are able to reach new understandings many or them unconventional. Yes it may not work for you, but who are you to lay down your absolute rules of morality?

[DN]

Cheating is bad. Cheating is wrong. The results of it are a very common thing that you see on here and it's never good.

 

It's all very new age to make this something that is somehow OK - bit it isn't. This is no different than if she were cheating with a man, the sex of the object of her cheating eye is irrelevant.

 

Sometimes things are simple, they are black and white and the failure to recognise that is the cause of many problems. I am sorry if that causes an issue for you but there we are.

[lukeb]

Cheating is bad. Cheating is wrong. The results of it are a very common thing that you see on here and it's never good.

 

It's all very new age to make this something that is somehow OK - bit it isn't. This is no different than if she were cheating with a man, the sex of the object of her cheating eye is irrelevant.

 

Sometimes things are simple, they are black and white and the failure to recognise that is the cause of many problems. I am sorry if that causes an issue for you but there we are.

 

 

To me the issue isn't whether cheating is right or wrong, that doesn't solve anything, the issue is where do we go from here?

[DN]

To me the issue isn't whether cheating is right or wrong, that doesn't solve anything, the issue is where do we go from here?

Of course it solves something. How can you go forward pretending her behaviour isn't what it is?

[LovelyLezo]

Cheating is bad. Cheating is wrong. The results of it are a very common thing that you see on here and it's never good.

 

It's all very new age to make this something that is somehow OK - bit it isn't. This is no different than if she were cheating with a man, the sex of the object of her cheating eye is irrelevant.

 

It's interesting actually. Dictionary defines cheating as: "Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage". I don't think that infidality is necessarily an act of cheating, unless there are lies and deception around it. Sometimes there isn't. I've always regarded cheating as an act of deception, eg, an emotional, intellectual or spiritual deception. The actual act of sex wouldn't constitute cheating to me, it would be the lies and deceptions around it that would be harmful.

 

I don't know if "cheating is bad" or "wrong" is entirely accurate. Cheating is deceptive, hurtful and a shame for the reciever (and the giver eventually), but to say it is "bad" and "wrong" (such dichotomic statements) seems a bit judgemental.

[abitbroken]

To me the issue isn't whether cheating is right or wrong, that doesn't solve anything, the issue is where do we go from here?

 

I agree, but...

 

Of course it solves something. How can you go forward pretending her behaviour isn't what it is?

 

The first step is admitting and accepting what happened. She cheated. So what do you do with that information? Does the recourse for cheating = divorce for you? It does seem that this marriage is broken and she has no desire to keep it together and it takes two.

 

So...where do you go from here? You can approach the situation by focusing on your boys and securing their future and talk with your wife about how you will break the news that mom is living somewhere else. So they don't hear it from their friends in town. Or you can file divorce papers. You can consult and attorney to figure out what our rights are. Or you can sit and hope that your wife change her mind about living as a lesbian and falls in love with you again.

 

I would focus on the practical, concrete things right now.

 

It's interesting actually. Dictionary defines cheating as: "Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage". I don't think that infidality is necessarily an act of cheating, unless there are lies and deception around it. Sometimes there isn't. I've always regarded cheating as an act of deception, eg, an emotional, intellectual or spiritual deception. The actual act of sex wouldn't constitute cheating to me, it would be the lies and deceptions around it that would be harmful.

 

I don't know if "cheating is bad" or "wrong" is entirely accurate. Cheating is deceptive, hurtful and a shame for the reciever (and the giver eventually), but to say it is "bad" and "wrong" (such dichotomic statements) seems a bit judgemental.

 

You can look up "cheating" in the dictionary and pick nits about if there is true "unfairness", but in common terminology ONE definition of the word "cheating" is synonymous with adultery. Just as there are several related definitions for other words. So, let's not get off track with semantics. And no one will agree with you that adultery is not "wrong". It is NEVER right.

 

As far as comments to the tune of trying to be compassionate about someone "coming out of the closet" well, she had a duty as a married woman to either stay true to her marriage vows and stay in the closet, or to stay true by revealing to her husband her desires and make the choice to end the marriage before she acted on it. Discoverying that you are gay or admitting it doesn't give you a free pass to just do whatever the heck you want if you have freely chosen to marry someone straight. If you can no longer hold your marriage vows because you desire someone else - it doesn't matter if you are gay or straight - you either don't act on your desires and recommit to your spouse or you end your marriage before you cheat.

[DN]

but to say it is "bad" and "wrong" (such dichotomic statements) seems a bit judgemental.

Well, I understand the new age 'don't judge me' attitude but it is that sort of fuzzy thinking that leads to the sort of behaviour that we see here.

 

You can rationalise cheating if you like but I doubt you will convince anyone, you probably haven't even convinced yourself.

[lukeb]

I don't think it is all that realistic to think that the OP's wife would rethink about being a lesbian and would "re-commit" to her husband like she did in her original marriage vows. I guess it is theoretically possible, I just don't think it is all that realistic. I personally know of a couple where the guy came out as gay, and of course there was a lot of hurt to go around initially and readjustments had to be made. When things settled down, there was no desire to separate the finances, and they both wanted to be a united front for the kids, no one wanted to move out on their own, and they actually liked each other's company so they stayed married. One other couple I know where the guy has just come out to his wife, and I am not sure where things will end up but it also seems to take that form where they will stay married. This can only happen if you are realistic about your goals and can accept, and be honest what you can expect from each other. I see no need to impose my morality on them, in fact I applaud these people that they are move past these difficulties and reach new understandings.

[DN]

If she is a lesbian and has no sexual interest in men that would be different, she should not be in a marriage with a man. But clearly this woman is at most bi-sexual and can therefore curb her desire to have extra-marital relationships in exactly the same way as a heterosexual.

[lukeb]

If she is a lesbian and has no sexual interest in men that would be different, she should not be in a marriage with a man. But clearly this woman is at most bi-sexual and can therefore curb her desire to have extra-marital relationships in exactly the same way as a heterosexual.

 

There are other types of relationships out there and they don't need to check with you (or me for that matter) to see if it fits with your moral concept of marriage. I tend to be pretty traditional too and I am not so sure I would be able to go there, but many people can. We're probably a lot closer to our own personal concept of relationships, where we differ is that I wouldn't impose my sense of morality on other people. In another thread I wrote that in all relationships we get a voice and a veto that would still hold here. It looks like we are beating this subject to death so I will leave it at that.

[DN]

There are other types of relationships out there and they don't need to check with you (or me for that matter) to see if it fits with your moral concept of marriage. I tend to be pretty traditional too and I am not so sure I would be able to go there, but many people can. We're probably a lot closer to our own personal concept of relationships, where we differ is that I wouldn't impose my sense of morality on other people. In another thread I wrote that in all relationships we get a voice and a veto that would still hold here. It looks like we are beating this subject to death so I will leave it at that.

The point you are missing is this (from the OP)

I have been devastated by the betrayal.

[abitbroken]

I don't think it is all that realistic to think that the OP's wife would rethink about being a lesbian and would "re-commit" to her husband like she did in her original marriage vows.

 

You are taking things far too litereally. If someone was saying "I want to buy a mansion." Well. the possibles are 1) Win the lottery 2) Work very hard for many years. The first is a way you can have the money to buy one, but its unlikely to happen. Its a real longshot.

 

Also, I repeat, if you are married, you made a promise. And if you break that promise, expect the marriage to be over. And have the courage to break it off bfore you cheat.

 

There are other types of relationships out there and they don't need to check with you (or me for that matter) to see if it fits with your moral concept of marriage.

 

You are not listening to or respecting the morals of the original poster. This thread is not about you and your moral code. He has clearly stated numerous times that he will not accept a sham marriage. He believes in traditional marriage with no "open relationship." Therefore, in that context, the only two possibles are that she gives up the lesbian lover and decides her marriage is more important to her sexual feelings, or that he divorce her. The first case is unlikely to happen. We all admit that. He is coming to terms with the reality of things and just like anything else - there is shock, anger, sorrow, realization, etc. There may be people out tehre who decided to enter an open marriage, but neither of them did.

 

What the OP needs is support, and advice on what the next step is. An open marriage, a threesome, pretending to be married while she keeps a lover - are NOT options to him. He has told us that. He deserves, IMHO an exclusive and loving marriage and if he has to divorce her and find someone new down the road - that is how he will get it. It might take some time to be on friendly terms for the sake of the kids, but it doesn't mean he has to stay while she runs around and cheats.

[lukeb]

Its true it is not about mine or your moral code for that matter that you spouting here. I would never presume to tell anyone what to do, in fact the opposite while everyone seems to want to tell him to divorce I leave that up to him and that there are other options out there. The OP doesn't need to check with my moral code or yours for that matter. The OP has 28 years with this person, I hate to see that thrown out because of anyone's moral code. I know about heart break and loss as much as the next guy and can sympathize with the OP. Abitbroken, you are actually doing what you are accusing me of doing.

[LovelyLezo]

You can look up "cheating" in the dictionary and pick nits about if there is true "unfairness", but in common terminology ONE definition of the word "cheating" is synonymous with adultery. Just as there are several related definitions for other words. So, let's not get off track with semantics. And no one will agree with you that adultery is not "wrong". It is NEVER right.

 

I'm not nitpicking, i'm merely stating a fact.

 

Its true it is not about mine or your moral code for that matter that you spouting here. I would never presume to tell anyone what to do, in fact the opposite while everyone seems to want to tell him to divorce I leave that up to him and that there are other options out there. The OP doesn't need to check with my moral code or yours for that matter. The OP has 28 years with this person, I hate to see that thrown out because of anyone's moral code. I know about heart break and loss as much as the next guy and can sympathize with the OP

 

Agreed.

[pl3asehelp]

Who has the power to decide what is ultimately "right" or "wrong" in this life?

 

Each of us.

[LovelyLezo]

Each of us.

 

I originally edited my comment out because i thought i was merely repeating what Lukeb had said, but you're right. Each of us has the descretion to decide what we deem as ultimately "right" or "wrong" in our own lives. Others don't have the right to impose their "moral code" on us. They need to make themselves busy and take care of their own lives.

[DN]

I originally edited my comment out because i thought i was merely repeating what Lukeb had said, but you're right. Each of us has the descretion to decide what we deem as ultimately "right" or "wrong" in our own lives. Others don't have the right to impose their "moral code" on us. They need to make themselves busy and take care of their own lives.

Really? OK with paedophilia? OK with torture? Ok with genocide? We don't have the right to impose our moral code on people who do these things?

[pl3asehelp]

I originally edited my comment out because i thought i was merely repeating what Lukeb had said, but you're right. Each of us has the descretion to decide what we deem as ultimately "right" or "wrong" in our own lives. Others don't have the right to impose their "moral code" on us. They need to make themselves busy and take care of their own lives.

 

I think this is fine if you plan on being an island, but if you ever want to share your life with someone, there will inevitably be at least some moral differences which need to be respected, which is a sort of imposition, but I wouldn't use that word because in a relationship, it should be something you want to do.

[lukeb]

Really? OK with paedophilia? OK with torture? Ok with genocide? We don't have the right to impose our moral code on people who do these things?

 

These examples are a bit retarded, we are talking about two people who want to stay together, and all of us on the outside looking in telling them they are not allowed to have voice in their relationship because it conflicts with our moral concept what a marriage has to look like. All other types of marriages apparently are a sham. Certainly the OP should be allowed to have a voice in his relationship, but so does his wife who is discovering her sexuality and wants to probably explore that. They may very well not be able to work through these difficulties but I think a 28 year relationship is worth fighting for. Two possibilities were brought forward: 1) Divorce 2) Stay married and pretending the wife's feelings don't exist or dont matter and from here on in that she be faithful to her vows she made 28 years ago. She is not allowed to talk about it, I guess because it makes us uncomfortable and it conflicts with our moral code.

 

I never said that they have to do this or that, just that there are other possibilities and there is no need to check with us or your community. The OP gets a voice but so does his wife she is in the relationship too.

[DN]

It's people who propagate views like yours that legitimise what people like this woman has done, by making her out almost as some sort of victim and relieving her of the hurt that she causes.

 

The examples I gave are meant to illustrate that society does in fact have a moral code and you don't get to cherry-pick those that suit or don't suit you.