sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 But even if you have been mistreated, the women who have mistreated you are not the ones you are punishing. Again, you're seeing "women" as a mass, lacking individual humanity. It's rather similar to the way enemies are characteristically portrayed in wartime propaganda. yes exactly, you are seeing them as a mass. Whats your point? They are a mass really. You dont know each and every woman in the world individually but after youve been in the game a while you realise all women are the same. They all respond in the same way and thats partly why PUA works. Because they are just machines. Love is just an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 But often PUA may be the only way which works. If you are targetting a hb10, how many options does she have? She has plenty of male attention so you have to do something better than the rest. You probably are not a HB10 so you dont know what the game is really like. Look at the language you are using there "targeting". Not "getting to know them", not "interacting" but "targeting". That is the same terminology you might use while playing a first person shooter - no wonder women are rejecting men like that. I don't even know what HB10 means but I am assuming it is an attractive woman. And yeah an attractive woman may have options - so does an attractive man. And yes it is harder than some who are not so attractive to get dates or get to know somebody. Again I have been in that position - the fat girl that all the men look past at the bar. The fat friend that no guys want to hit on. But to see people as "things" to be acquired is disgusting. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 But to see people as "things" to be acquired is disgusting. Period. if it was so disgusting why does it work? The women are not being forced to be with those PUA. Did it cross your mind that some women enjoy being chased in this way? Some women are playing the game just as much as men are. Maybe you speak as someone who has never been in the game and been pursued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 yes exactly, you are seeing them as a mass. Whats your point? They are a mass really. You dont know each and every woman in the world individually but after youve been in the game a while you realise all women are the same. They all respond in the same way and thats partly why PUA works. Because they are just machines. Love is just an illusion. If love is an illusion and all women are the same, what is it that you "deserve" that you're not getting? In what way have you been "mistreated"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 some women enjoy being chased in this way? Some women are playing the game just as much as men are. Some? Wait a minute, I thought all women were identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camus154 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 if it was so disgusting why does it work? The women are not being forced to be with those PUA. Did it cross your mind that some women enjoy being chased in this way? Some women are playing the game just as much as men are. Maybe you speak as someone who has never been in the game and been pursued I don't understand what the point of your OP is. Are you just now discovering that the dating game can often be counter-intuitive, that sometimes people enjoy the thrill of a game, and that people of either gender can be attracted to things they'd otherwise say they're not attracted to? What's your point, OP? The whole PUA topic seems to be the darling theory that bitter posters like to misappropriate in an effort to justify their own bitterness. And honestly that's all I see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 if it was so disgusting why does it work? The women are not being forced to be with those PUA. Did it cross your mind that some women enjoy being chased in this way? Some women are playing the game just as much as men are. Maybe you speak as someone who has never been in the game and been pursued It works, SOME of the time, like I said, because SOME women have a low sense of self and are therefore more likely to fall for these kinds of "tricks". It certainly does not work on ALL women. It would NEVER fly with me because I can see through it a mile away - and believe me, men have tried. I have no idea what "rating" they would give me and I really don't care. I don't seek out that kind of validation, nor do I base my self esteem on what others think of me. Women who do fall for it, do. It is disgusting because men pray on these women with low self esteem because they are too weak themselves to go for someone on equal footing. Presenting yourself honestly whether you get rejected or not is always better than to pretend or fake your way into someone else's pants. Love is not "an illusion" - that is bitterness talking. I have a good marriage with a good man. I don't see any of that as an illusion. And nor do I feel the need to apologise for my happiness because someone else has not been as lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I too am wondering at the purpose of this thread. The OP's question was how women would feel if they were manipulated into sex by a PUA. Given your responses, OP and your general attitude towards PUA, I wonder why you would care at all how a woman would feel since you seem to see us all as one identical mechanical mass that all behave in identical ways if you press the right buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 My apologies - I phrased that wrong. With all due respect...whenever I've heard women "misspeak" about issues having to do with power and status, it's usually been a highly-revealing Freudian slip, rather than a legitimate mistake. I'm not necessarily accusing you of that, I'm just saying that it's been my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't think PUA is unappealing because guys are trying to get laid. It's because of the underlying assumption that women are basically machines that, handled the correct way, can be controlled to produce the desired result. Strangely, I've found a lot of advice to be universal. "Be more confident," "improve yourself physically," "be more successful," etc. To me, that's borderline button-pushing, for lack of a better term. "Just be more confident, and women will automatically like you!" Isn't PUA just a more sophisticated, less emotional version of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 With all due respect...whenever I've heard women "misspeak" about issues having to do with power and status, it's usually been a highly-revealing Freudian slip, rather than a legitimate mistake. I'm not necessarily accusing you of that, I'm just saying that it's been my experience. Well whether it was or it wasn't, when I wrote it, I did not intend for it to come accross as an indicator of power or status since I don't really think that way. I did mean that men like this FEEL they have to behave this way - not that they HAVE to because of their status, or looks, or social capabilities - which is what I have been arguing this entire time. Nobody HAS to behave in any specific way at all. They CHOOSE to behave certain ways, based on their own perceived "position" regardless of whether that is actually the case or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Strangely, I've found a lot of advice to be universal. "Be more confident," "improve yourself physically," "be more successful," etc. To me, that's borderline button-pushing, for lack of a better term. "Just be more confident, and women will automatically like you!" Isn't PUA just a more sophisticated, less emotional version of that? I get what you're saying, some of the general advice is fine, but I think the difference is that PUA in its more extreme, pseudo-scientific form is about manoeuvres - techniques of misrepresentation - that don't actually involve improving yourself in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 The whole PUA topic seems to be the darling theory that bitter posters like to misappropriate in an effort to justify their own bitterness. And honestly that's all I see here. nobody requires you to understand what the point of this thread is. If you dont get it, nobody has to explain it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I get what you're saying, some of the general advice is fine, but I think the difference is that PUA in its more extreme, pseudo-scientific form is about manoeuvres - techniques of misrepresentation - that don't actually involve improving yourself in any way. I'm absolutely against misrepresentation and dishonesty. That's why I've always refused to fake being confident or ambitious. That said, I'm not really sure what "improving yourself" has to do with anything. I realize we're talking about lying/using other tactics to make yourself look better than you really are, but I've never had a woman improve herself for me, so I don't see any reason why I should do it. Likewise, I've heard of women saying "If you want to be with me, you'll have to shape up and treat me better!", but I've never heard of a man saying that to a woman. I don't think we could get away with it, because they have too many other options. Again, I can see where PUA came from. Treating women with respect got me friendzoned, ignored, or treated badly in return, while the women in question hooked up with, um, questionable guys that treated them (and continue to treat them) badly. For ethical reasons, I wouldn't adapt based on what I learned from those experiences, but I can understand why some guys would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 If love is an illusion and all women are the same, what is it that you "deserve" that you're not getting? In what way have you been "mistreated"? Everybody has things they deserve and dont get. if other people can enjoy sex why not everyones else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 That said, I'm not really sure what "improving yourself" has to do with anything. I realize we're talking about lying/using other tactics to make yourself look better than you really are, but I've never had a woman improve herself for me Maybe not, but I'm absolutely sure (some) women improve themselves for men in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Treating women with respect got me friendzoned, ignored, or treated badly in return, while the women in question hooked up with, um, questionable guys that treated them (and continue to treat them) badly. For ethical reasons, I wouldn't adapt based on what I learned from those experiences, but I can understand why some guys would. This is true. And those women are the ones who deserve to be mistreated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 if other people can enjoy sex why not everyones else? Why not indeed? Who's saying they shouldn't? It's not the sex but the means of "acquiring" it that I'm calling into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is true. And those women are the ones who deserve to be mistreated. No one deserves to be mistreated, regardless of what they've done. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe not, but I'm absolutely sure (some) women improve themselves for men in general. Its not just some women or some men that we are generalising. Its the majority of women and the majority of men. So yes they are a mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickandangry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Why not indeed? Who's saying they shouldn't? It's not the sex but the means of "acquiring" it that I'm calling into question. so what are you calling into question exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe not, but I'm absolutely sure (some) women improve themselves for men in general. In an abstract sense, that may be true, though I've heard that women dress up/make themselves look better to impress other women, more than to land guys. And though I've seen guys on ENA be told to bulk up to be more "manly," the female weight-related threads I've read, well...if the opposite advice were given, it would be quite disastrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 so what are you calling into question exactly? The use of PUA techniques, and the mindset of resentful entitlement that often seems to go with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexMan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In an abstract sense, that may be true, though I've heard that women dress up/make themselves look better to impress other women Yeah, there's a lot of that too, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camus154 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 nobody requires you to understand what the point of this thread is. If you dont get it, nobody has to explain it to you. And here I was hoping this was going to be the one "bitter guy's take on PUA and women" thread that would finally deliver a keen insight into the sexes where the other 2300 have failed before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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