Boomshine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Depends if she's ready to try reconnecting or not. She might be friendly on Facebook right now but it doesn't necessarily mean she's ready for a face-to-face. I would try to feel the water out a bit more before jumping in head first. You already chased her off once before, and pulling too hard all at once very well might intimidate her again. I would give her time to respond before pressing any topic any further. It's been 2-3 days since you brought up the subject of meeting up with her again. If, after she hasn't responded, she hears that's you're flying to the city she's in, it's only going to scare her more. You're going to have to win back a lot from her before you can win her love. And trust is going to be one of those big things you need to first regain. Like Winnie said, She's either thinking (let her) or doesn't want to see you but doesn't know how to tell you (wait until she finds a way). That's seriously the best thing you can do in this situation. If you suddenly fly out to the city she's in without a legitimate reason for being there of your own accord, it's going to come off incredibly stalkerish. You can win her back, but it's going to be a step-by-step, day-by-day process. I don't think making one huge Leap of Faith here is going to work out in your favor. A woman's heart is not something she is fickle with. She's not going to give it away at the drop of a pin. You've got to make your advances slowly but surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I just keep thinking of what would have been if I had just played it cool all fall. I would already be there--this week in fact--staying at her house. We would have certainly had an in depth talk about "us" and everything that had happened, regardless of the outcome. And I would be in a far better situation. So I guess if I am going to learn anything from that, it's to play it cool this time as well, and not try to rush or push things, because I ended up making everything worse by doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomshine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Right, back then, that was the next natural step of progression for where you were before. But things are different now, so you gotta keep smart with that. You can work back up to that, but you can't just jump right back in. For example, with me and my ex, I'm going to have to spend enough time with her for her to find attraction in me again before we can jump back in bed again (as much as I'm sure we both would LOVE to right now, it won't work like that - there are things each of us need from the other person before that can be satisfied). Heh, I'll equate it to fishing. Imagine you're fishing, and you've got a fish on. And it's a BIG one. It fights with you for a good 5-10 minutes, you try and reel in, and it pulls back, then you let loose the tension a bit. Your line breaks, and the fish swims away with your hook still in its jaw.(This is where you are now.) So you PROPERLY RESET by tying a new hook on your string, restringing your reel up, bait the hook, and get ready to recast (a metaphor for the time it's going to take for her to feel you out again, like she's doing with not messaging you for the last 3 days). A short while later, another fish on! I'm not sure how you would know, but let's pretend that it's the same fish, and you know it's the same fish. The moment it bites the hook, you wouldn't start fighting it just as hard as you were the second before it broke off the line. You'd have to start all over again, and set this hook in, and wear it down again to reel it again. Starting right where you left the last fight off would wind up ripping the hook right out of the fish's mouth, allowing it a second chance to swim away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky988 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 People aren't fish. If someone decides to break up with you, they have every right to make this decision and have this decision accepted as final, even if you don't agree with it. I think it's very dangerous to believe you have the right -- or the power -- to attempt to manipulate or convince your ex to change her mind. IF she changes her mind, she'll let you know. But that's HER decision to make one way or the other. The best thing to do is to try and accept their decision with dignity and grace and move on -- and hope they miss you enough to change their mind. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Sharky, from another thread you said,(about not going NC sometimes) "Agreed. In that circumstance, the Dumper is really a "forced dumper" -- and I think should really be treated more as a Dumpee. If someone's been forced to break up with you -- because you cheated on them, or wouldn't commit, or were too distant -- then NC makes no sense whatsoever! IMHO anyway." Well that's my situation and always has been, but you've always given me the opposite advice--to accept it and let her come to me if she changed her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomshine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 People aren't fish. Tell that to your signature. If someone decides to break up with you, they have every right to make this decision and have this decision accepted as final, even if you don't agree with it. That's completely true. But that doesn't mean that she can't start finding you attractive again of her own free will. Yes, you'd be behaving more attractively with the hopes that this would work, but behaving attractively is something every man should do anyhow. All men should be confident, self-assured, have goals in life, and not be jealous, insecure, attention-seeking, or needy. And it just so happens that this combination of traits worked to attract her to you at one point in time. Should it happen again, it will be of her own volition. She might feel attraction toward you, but she'd still have to be accepting of this in order to acknowledge and allow it. I think it's very dangerous to believe you have the right -- or the power -- to attempt to manipulate or convince your ex to change her mind. IF she changes her mind, she'll let you know. But that's HER decision to make one way or the other. There's no manipulation here. Convincing either. The feelings will come from within herself. What I'm suggesting is slow buildup of natural relationship progress. The first step is always friendship. And it's a two way street. If she's not willing to meet you in the middle, that's your out. But if she's starting to have conversation with you again, then eventually becomes receptive to hangouts and meetups, you're progressing. She's letting you know. The best thing to do is to try and accept their decision with dignity and grace and move on -- and hope they miss you enough to change their mind. Which he's done. He's not constantly pestering her about trying to get with her. They've been having normal conversation. Shack, you've extended your hand to her by offering the coffee meetup. She hasn't responded. You can't progress until she makes that step forward as well. Pushing the topic will only hurt your chances. So you either wait until she becomes receptive, or you bow out gracefully and forget about attempting to rekindle anything. But again, you also know she's busy with studying. Give her time. You'll get a response soon enough, and waiting for it is going to be infinitely better than pressing your luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winniethepooh Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I guess that's accurate. However, I am really thinking about just going on Sunday. I can still get a flight for like 50 euros, not a big deal. She probably would meet me. I don't see how I have anything to lose by doing it...do you? Oh I can think of a few things. 50 euros for a start (but if I was in a position to do something like that and thought it would make a positive difference, I'd see that as an insignificant cost). More importantly, You might lose her. If not for good, for a longer time. She's a scared cat. Don't make her jump. She might lose respect for you, see you as invading her world. Wait for a reply. She knows you can get on a plane. You messed up with your message, but there's nothing you can do to unmess it up. The ball is in her court. If you play a bad shot, you can't run around, grab the ball, and do it again. Firing more shots at her before she's dealt with the one you already sent just makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 So you think my message should have been something like, "Hey, it's really nice to hear from you, I miss you. I know that I was supposed to get in touch with you about coming to visit this week, but I didn't, because I have been so uncertain about exactly what to do, say, how to act because I want to both be there for you, but I also know that ultimately I want to work through the problems we had and to be with you again. I realize that I owe you an apology about a lot of things--I would rather make it in person, but first and foremost is for taking you for granted, and being too caught up in my own insecurities and fears to realize it. And I continued that even after we broke up, by being too focused on my own hurt to realize that I was still not being present to you, and missing opportunities to really talk to you about what happened between us, and where we should go from here. I can't lie to you, what I want is to find a way forward together. But I also just really want to see you, and so I would love to come and visit if the invitation is still open--and if it is easier for you, I am fine staying somewhere nearby, and not necessarily intruding on your personal space by staying with you and your family. So, no matter what the outcome of our conversation is, I will respect what you tell me, but it's one that I just really want to have in person, because you were always and still are too important to me for all of this to happen through long distance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I just never imagined that a girl who made dozens of comments alluding to how she eventually saw us as possibly marriage potential could lose her feelings for me in a matter of months. I know I hurt her, but I have spent four months in emotional pain and I would welcome her back in a heartbeat. So why does it seem like she doesn't really want a relationship with me anymore? I don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchFries Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I don't know what you did, but when you hurt someone, it changes the dynamic of the relationship. It can alter feelings and cause gun shyness. So, while she may still have feelings for you, she may not feel it is in her best interest to take the risk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hey winnie, in terms of having screwed up the message I sent her, do you think I should send this to her? "T, I know the message I sent you a couple days ago might have seemed vague and confusing to you--I was supposed to get in touch about coming for that "planned" visit but never did, and now here I am asking to just meet up for coffee. I'll be honest, I'm not over you and I still love you. But I also just really want to see you, and so I am willing to respect the way that you told me you would want me to come and visit, as a friend. I would love to have a real in person discussion with you about everything, but I don't have any expectations, and there's no pressure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winniethepooh Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hey winnie, in terms of having screwed up the message I sent her, do you think I should send this to her? No. I think you should wait and see what reply you get, if any. I don't know if you screwed up your message, maybe you didn't. If you wait for a reply, then you'll have a better idea. Your other messages don't sound good to me either. But that's an initial impression rather than me having a solid reason why. Read this topic again yourself, see if you get a different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomshine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No. I think you should wait and see what reply you get, if any. Agreed, 100%. I don't know if you screwed up your message, maybe you didn't. If you wait for a reply, then you'll have a better idea. Exactly. Maybe she's EXTREMELY busy with a piece of work. Or lost internet for a few days. Give her time! She got scared off, so now she's being timid. She was willing to give you her heart, but now she's not as sure. The only thing that's going to show her that you're the right candidate is to go slowly and patiently. Show her that she is worth waiting for by allowing her to decide and ACTUALLY waiting for her. Your other messages don't sound good to me either. But that's an initial impression rather than me having a solid reason why. Read this topic again yourself, see if you get a different perspective. That's going to be a big thing in this. Women will make decisions through a combination of emotion and logic. So if something in her head says "This just doesn't FEEL right," she won't necessarily sit there and analyze the hell out of it until she has a reason for it. She'll go with her gut, say that it made her feel sketchy or whatever, and just move on with it. The impression you give her is going to be just as important (if not more) as the actual words you're saying. Another reason why it's better to wait, because sending multiple messages before getting a reply sends off an impression of desperation. No woman will date you because you're desperate to be with her. It's too much pressure vs interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 So I just found out something. I had always thought that when she said she "was briefly hooking up with someone but hated it and ended it because he wasn't you" that she meant she had hooked up with someone one time. I probably deluded myself. Well I just talked today to a friend who saw her at homecoming in November (a friend who went back to university for the homecoming game), and apparently she was talking to her along with a group of girls, and someone asked my ex if she was seeing anyone, and she replied that she had hooked up several times with a guy. (this happened after our initial conversation where she told me that and where she seemed like she wanted to get back maybe). Well my friend confronted her about it later, and she told her that she had stopped because she still had feelings for me. My friend then asked if she had spoken with me, and told her that she better speak to me. Lo and behold, two days later is when I get a really forced sounding message telling me to move on, because she has, and that she doesn't want to get back together. And then we Skype, where she seems more human and normal and somewhat sad. BUT, the point is, several times?! She hooked up with someone more than once, what must have been a month after we had broken up?? And she was still being very friendly and close and talking to me. **** this, I feel really betrayed. Who knows, maybe she is still hooking up with this piece of ****. I want to send her a really long letter that I wrote, where I apologize for the things I did wrong in our relationship, but where I also tell her that I know now that she really did choose to move on, that I feel betrayed for waiting for her, and that this is it, that I can;t be her friend at all, and goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 maybe this strategy is wrong. she is clearly far more moved on than i am. she even told me as much, that i should let her go because she had done the same. maybe this is a mistake. maybe i should just disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 That's going to be a big thing in this. Women will make decisions through a combination of emotion and logic. So if something in her head says "This just doesn't FEEL right," she won't necessarily sit there and analyze the hell out of it until she has a reason for it. She'll go with her gut, say that it made her feel sketchy or whatever, and just move on with it. Wow, that totally hits home. In that (forced sounding) message she sent me after homecoming in November she said, "the last time we spoke it didn't FEEL RIGHT when you told me you would wait for me, even if I were with other guys, and now I know why. I don't want you to wait for me. You can't wait for me. I have no doubt you will be able to become the person you want to be, but I don't want to get back together with you. You and I are in the past..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 i think i made a huuuuge huge mistake. I think I just couldn't take how hard NC was. I think I went NC at the perfect time. two weeks into it prompted her to come up with an excuse to initiate contact with me. and she had practically begged me to refriend her on facebook when we had skyped for the last time. I should have stayed with it. shouldn't have replied to her message, shouldn't have refriended her, shouldn't have texted for christmas, shouldn't have replied on new year's. shouldn't have messaged this week. i guess i'll wait for her response to get your feedback here, but i'm afraid i messed up again. ugh, why can't things be more straightforward? i always thought she was just afraid. but maybe it was actually just that she was really moving on. having so much work you don't have the time to think about us helps with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomshine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Wow, that totally hits home. In that (forced sounding) message she sent me after homecoming in November she said, "the last time we spoke it didn't FEEL RIGHT when you told me you would wait for me, even if I were with other guys, and now I know why. I don't want you to wait for me. You can't wait for me. I have no doubt you will be able to become the person you want to be, but I don't want to get back together with you. You and I are in the past..." Yeah, she doesn't want a puppy dog. No woman does. They want a take-charge man who lives his life for himself, and doesn't sit back and wait for things to get better. It's okay to wait for her, but you can't actively be sitting there, waiting. You have to be getting out and living your life still, and not putting the impression on her that you're just waiting for her to come back. She wants you to live your life. She didn't break up with you because she wants to you feel miserable and depressed. And it's not until you get your life back on track, and just suck up the fact that you have to live it without her for now, that you two have a chance. You have to get over her before you can win her back. And at that point, you may not even WANT to win her back. But that will be your decision to make when you get there. But you have to get there first. Don't focus on whether you want to be with her or not, because that's not in the cards for now. Just simply accept life as it is, meaning live your life without her in it. Then later, if she gets a hold of you some time saying she wants to meet up for coffee or whatever, THEN you can make your decision if you want to try and win her back or not. And at that point, you'll hopefully have lost your addiction for her and be able to make a rational decision for how you want to go. Same as you did first time around. This girl came into your life, you decided whether you wanted to be with her or not, then went for it. And when you made that decision, think of your mindframe then. Think of how you thought about it, and about her. There was no addiction. There was no NEED to be with her. There was no desperation. Right now, all you need to do is NC and get over her. Later on, you'll get your time to make your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 a part of me knows that, but i don't want to wait because even if i were to have a shot at reconnecting with her say, a year, two years from now, even if i still wanted to, still loved her i know that i wouldn't be able to do it if she had been with other guys. it took me forever to get past the fact that she had been with people before me--i never really got over it, it bothered me up until the last time we were together. i had stopped thinking about it, but it still bothered me when i did think about it. so, i know that it would destroy any future relationship. i would feel insecure, and i would resent her. i want to be with her for good, but i wanted to get her back before she was ever really with someone else. letting go for that long might as well be letting go for good for me. i would never be able to get the images out of my mind, even if she does come back. and god forbid that she ends up actually falling for someone else and then coming back. it wouldn't work at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 so what do i do now? she hasn't replied and i don't think she is going to. should i send one last message saying something like, "i understand, for whatever reason you don't really want to see me and you don't really want to talk to me. i'm not happy with the way things ended between us, never having had a real in person conversation. i would like to, but i will respect what you are telling me. i get it now, i really do. i hope you have an incredible, happy rest of your senior year. love, me" or mail her one last letter? and then just do my best to forget everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky988 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Please, just go NC. Try to accept her decision and don't contact her anymore right now. Many exes (both male and female, it makes no difference) will beg for friendship and try to stay in touch after a breakup. It's a common mistake to misinterpret this as them wanting to get back together. They want us in their lives to cushion the blow, nothing more. For your own sake, try to stick to the NC and get your center back within yourself. IF she ever changes her mind, she'll let you know. There's NO plan or strategy to getting anyone back. Just try to accept her decision and focus on yourself for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Falco Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 so what do i do now? she hasn't replied and i don't think she is going to. should i send one last message saying something like, "i understand, for whatever reason you don't really want to see me and you don't really want to talk to me. i'm not happy with the way things ended between us, never having had a real in person conversation. i would like to, but i will respect what you are telling me. i get it now, i really do. i hope you have an incredible, happy rest of your senior year. love, me" or mail her one last letter? and then just do my best to forget everything? No. Fade out and get your head straight. None of those things that you want to do will help you. You need to fix your head right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 i feel like such a fool. i know that for a while she really was torn and confused. and i feel like i played my cards wrong. i felt really guilty over the things i did wrong, so i was convinced that i needed to try and still be there for her. i couldn't believe that she could actually fall out of love with me. i should have listened to you guys from the get go and stayed NIC. i keep making mistake after mistake after mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Falco Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 i feel like such a fool. i know that for a while she really was torn and confused. and i feel like i played my cards wrong. i felt really guilty over the things i did wrong, so i was convinced that i needed to try and still be there for her. i couldn't believe that she could actually fall out of love with me. i should have listened to you guys from the get go and stayed NIC. i keep making mistake after mistake after mistake Don't feel bad about that -- virtually all of us have made similar mistakes. NC does two things a) helps you move on and b) prevents you from making a fool out of yourself because you aren't in the right state of mind to try to get your ex back. Feelings change and there's really nothing you, I or anyone else can do to prevent that. We can only work on ourselves. I'm really sorry you are going through this. It sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackazu Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Don't feel bad about that -- virtually all of us have made similar mistakes. NC does two things a) helps you move on and b) prevents you from making a fool out of yourself because you aren't in the right state of mind to try to get your ex back. Feelings change and there's really nothing you, I or anyone else can do to prevent that. We can only work on ourselves. I'm really sorry you are going through this. It sucks. it's just that... had i done nothing and not pressured her, i would have visited for a week "as a friend to catch up" and who knows what would have happened from there... but i blew the best chance i was ever going to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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