Still not convinced

[shackazu]

Right, I'm just searching for how to play the game right now.

 

I just checked her facebook for the first time in a while, and while she still has a bunch of pictures of us together up, she hid a picture of us kissing that was still on her profile the last time i looked two months ago.

[shackazu]

winnie, do you think that it would be better to contact her, still try to go (like next week or something--buy a new plane ticket) in the state that I am in right now? I feel like going immediately would partly be acting out of fear that a few months from now could be too late. I mean, I am in control of myself enough to go I think, I wouldn't break down or anything, I would go and have a fun time, have her take me around the city and whatnot, but this is still just a few days in the middle of her writing a thesis and going back to the same stressed out semester.

 

Maybe it would be better to do it this summer when she is home for longer, and it would show that my feelings for her were always strong enough that I still have them? And I was also planning on going in May, seeing her for a few days, then inviting her to come along on this several weeks long hike that I might do right after--it would give us a way to restart, reconnect again.

[emma me]

It sounds to me like you're not sure of what you want and u want her to chase you. I think you want to be in total control that's why you're playing with her like she's a yo-yo.

[shackazu]

i'm playing with her? i am willing to be totally vulnerable. i already laid it out that i wanted to still be with her in late october/early november, it's just that by doing so i ruined my chances of going and visiting "as a friend" and then having that conversation in person...

 

I mean, I would love for her to say that she wants to give us another shot. But I don't want to be in control, and I don't really see how I am the one yo-yoing her around. But I am willing to step back and examine my behavior if you think that's the case. I am insecure for sure, mainly because she told me that she had hooked up with someone, even though she admitted that it was a rebound and then claimed she hated it because he wasn't me. That she could have been physically intimate with someone else, and then still act like she doesn't want to get back together even though she hated it and still misses me made me feel like she was too far gone already, and added to my insecurity, which is why i pulled the "i can't be your friend" thing. Which I wish I hadn't, because then I would still be on my way to visit her.

[winniethepooh]

winnie, do you think that it would be better to contact her, still try to go (like next week or something--buy a new plane ticket) in the state that I am in right now?

I don't know but I'm concerned there's too much desperation on your part now, and that's going to affect things badly.

 

Maybe you could try calling her to see what she thinks, but I don't even know if that's a good idea now.

 

I feel like going immediately would partly be acting out of fear that a few months from now could be too late.

Yes.

 

I mean, I am in control of myself enough to go I think, I wouldn't break down or anything,

You don't know that.

 

I would go and have a fun time, have her take me around the city and whatnot, but this is still just a few days in the middle of her writing a thesis and going back to the same stressed out semester.

Might be a few days she doesn't want to take.

 

Maybe it would be better to do it this summer when she is home for longer, and it would show that my feelings for her were always strong enough that I still have them? And I was also planning on going in May, seeing her for a few days, then inviting her to come along on this several weeks long hike that I might do right after--it would give us a way to restart, reconnect again.

Lots of maybes, nothing is certain.

 

Wait, what? A hike for how many weeks? You think she'll be enthusiastic about that? I think a day might be overdoing it, if you even get that far. A lot can happen in 6 months.

 

I just checked her facebook for the first time in a while, and while she still has a bunch of pictures of us together up, she hid a picture of us kissing that was still on her profile the last time i looked two months ago.

Facebook? You have got to be kidding, you're relying on FB for relationship guidance?

 

Now I get the feeling there are no good options for you anymore, only bad ones. The least bad one might be to try to talk to her. But that's still bad because now she's focused on study.

[shackazu]

Facebook? You have got to be kidding, you're relying on FB for relationship guidance?

 

Now I get the feeling there are no good options for you anymore, only bad ones. The least bad one might be to try to talk to her. But that's still bad because now she's focused on study.

 

I'm not really relying on Facebook. But it's not exactly a good sign. I tried reinitiating conversation this afternoon by sending her a song to work on her thesis to (we always used to send each other songs, and she chooses songs as work songs and listens to them on repeat to a play count of like 300). She saw the message this afternoon, but still hasn't replied.

 

Anyway, I know she is very focused on study. It's why I am damn certain she is not in a new relationship, and won't have a new relationship next semester either. She as much as told me so, and also told me that even though she still has feelings for me, she might not be able to handle them all year (back in the conversation where she was receptive towards talking about us in January).

 

As for the hike, my plan was to go back to what I was originally doing, staying in close touch with her (should never have stopped), so that inviting her on it wouldn't be a huge deal, it would be like a very close friend asking me if I wanted to go train tripping around Europe for a week...

 

I really ****ed myself over man. I had a decent shot and I ****ed it all up. After ****ing up by pushing her away/leaving to begin with.

[winniethepooh]

I'm not really relying on Facebook. But it's not exactly a good sign.

Forget Facebook for now. Don't look at hers.

 

I tried reinitiating conversation this afternoon by sending her a song to work on her thesis to (we always used to send each other songs, and she chooses songs as work songs and listens to them on repeat to a play count of like 300).

You what? Don't be so cryptic. Send a proper message.

 

She saw the message this afternoon, but still hasn't replied.

Maybe because she has no idea what your point is.

 

Anyway, I know she is very focused on study. It's why I am damn certain she is not in a new relationship, and won't have a new relationship next semester either.

Don't be damn certain of anything. People can always surprise you.

 

She as much as told me so, and also told me that even though she still has feelings for me, she might not be able to handle them all year (back in the conversation where she was receptive towards talking about us in January).

Finding someone else to distract her will make it much easier to deal with her feelings for you.

 

As for the hike, my plan was to go back to what I was originally doing, staying in close touch with her (should never have stopped),

Don't be so sure you did the wrong thing here either. Your perspective is distorted by your feelings for her.

 

so that inviting her on it wouldn't be a huge deal, it would be like a very close friend asking me if I wanted to go train tripping around Europe for a week...

If you and her want to be very close friends, then behave like that. But that's different from being in a relationship.

 

I really ****ed myself over man. I had a decent shot and I ****ed it all up. After ****ing up by pushing her away/leaving to begin with.

Maybe. Sometimes it's not until a while afterwards that we have clarity and realise we didn't screw up as bad as we thought we did. It is what it is, you can't change the past. But don't be dreamy about the present or future. Be clear and seek clarity. Be respectful about it also but don't be obtuse. Now is not the time for writing a Hollywood love story.

 

If you're so sure she won't get together with anyone in the near future (or perhaps not anything serious), then see if you can keep the communication going until May when you have another opportunity to visit. But keep your focus on improving communication, without knocking her (or you) off balance any more than you are. Keep the bold romantic gestures in your head for the time being, and out of your heart - your heart is a mischievous bugger right now and will lead you up the garden path.

[shackazu]

So evidently she is back at school and not home for a few days. Her reply to the song that I sent. "thanks for the song! how's the guitar going? im in the US right now. I flew here for a couple of days for Dean of Students candidate interviews (school flew me haha). im on the search committee. i really really have to buckle down on the thesis!! i cant believe polisci had a complete rough draft due by mid january. for black studies i just need a chapter. i was talking about it with Sarat and he says its because Black studies isn't a serious department haha. i have mad respect for what you did last interterm haha."

 

So you would suggest that I try and see if it's possible to go to her city for a couple days when she gets back, and then keep casual contact until May? I was thinking of keeping this conversation going casually for a day or two, then calling her and saying, "Hi, so I would still like to come to _____, I know you are trying to crack down on the thesis, so I'll probably stay at a hostel so that I don't interrupt your work ethic, but it would be great to see you if you want to take an afternoon to give me a tour around and maybe grab a coffee or something."

 

What do you think?

[ZhaoZilong5]

I skimmed through the first page, and there doesn't seem to be any more advice to give you. Though I do believe that time apart is necessary for people to grow if they want to get back together, I don't believe time apart is necessary to fix (or compromise) problems within the relationship that weren't individual flaws. With that said, yeah, since the lack of commitment and love in the relationship came from you, then I feel like you dropped the ball.

 

I'll give you some personal examples. NC didn't work for me for getting back an ex when they dumped me without regretting it later on. They found somebody better, they really were done with me, whatever. NC did work for me whenever they dumped me for somebody worse, or they just regretted it. However, I never went NC to get anybody back. It just came natural to me, though I didn't know that's what the concept was called.

 

I stayed friends with people who were done with me. They didn't want me back. One did for a few months but moved on anyway. I went NC or LC with a few (whatever just felt natural at the time). I moved on either way. If they have another SO, then I feel like NC or really, really LC is necessary with them even to get them back later. Yeah, some of us have gotten our exes back from their rebounds through communication, NC, games, and whatever, but I honestly wouldn't trust those exes-turned-SO again to be faithful.

 

Sometimes, staying in communication does work. It's just different for every couple.

 

Every situation is different, but in most cases, light communication is key to re-acquaintance yourselves while living your own lives independently. In your case, I feel like you should have visited. You either would have known what she wanted, and if you left not knowing, then you could have ended anything akin to being strung along and went NC or LC to move on.

 

Yeah, I say go ahead and ask her if she would like for you to visit. Just be honest. If she asks why you didn't go when she offered, then just tell her you were unsure, because well...that's the truth without making you look like a game-playing ass. Even though I'm a third-party, I would totally understand if she refuses due to school or if she feels like you let her down, in which case, she'd just need a little more time...unless she decides to go for somebody else.

[shackazu]

well i did it, i replied to her last message and told her i was most likely going to still go to her city, casually said that i would be fine staying at a hostel since i don't want to interrupt her work too much, but that if she had the time to give me a tour of the city, and/or meet up for coffee, then that would be great.

 

a friend told me to just ask about visiting in a fb message back, that it was more casual than calling her up to do it.

[Boomshine]

I'm not really relying on Facebook. But it's not exactly a good sign.

 

Sure it is. She's not going to leave it up there since her feelings have changed. But just because it's not public anymore doesn't mean she doesn't have it still. Dollars to donuts that she saved it on her computer. But that's neither here or there. One action on Facebook doesn't signify anything considering not much has changed in your relationship so far. If you two get together, and suddenly it shows up on her profile again, that would be a good sign obviously. But I don't think you can really get a bad sign out of this. It's to be expected.

 

Anyway, I know she is very focused on study. It's why I am damn certain she is not in a new relationship, and won't have a new relationship next semester either. She as much as told me so, and also told me that even though she still has feelings for me, she might not be able to handle them all year (back in the conversation where she was receptive towards talking about us in January).

 

Even if she was in a new relationship, it wouldn't mean much this early on. Any guys met within a month's time (at least, if not longer) are rebounds. Rebounds don't work, because she won't have given herself enough time to get over you. If she gets with a guy, it doesn't mean anything yet. It just pushes things back about a month or so until they break it off. No big deal there.

 

As for the hike, my plan was to go back to what I was originally doing, staying in close touch with her (should never have stopped), so that inviting her on it wouldn't be a huge deal, it would be like a very close friend asking me if I wanted to go train tripping around Europe for a week...

 

I really ****ed myself over man. I had a decent shot and I ****ed it all up. After ****ing up by pushing her away/leaving to begin with.

 

Yeah, that probably would have been a good idea since she backed off from feeling like you weren't committed. But it's okay. Hindsight is 20/20 and nothing you can do can change the past. But it doesn't mean you can't fix your future still. Try and stay somewhat close with her. A friend that she talks to somewhat regularly, and always has a good, fun conversation with. Get her attracted to you again over the course of these hangouts, and then show her you can be committed. You'll know how when the time is right, but do NOT do it until you know with 100% certainty that it's right - It's like knowing when to say "I love you" for the first time. Just play your cards right and be patient. A girl is NOT fickle with her heart, and you have to show her that you're willing to put in the time and effort to truly win her. And this can't all be done over the course of one hike or anything like that. Time will help you here. Just keep raising your reputation with her slowly but surely, and let her start to feel the emotions of her own accord.

 

well i did it, i replied to her last message and told her i was most likely going to still go to her city, casually said that i would be fine staying at a hostel since i don't want to interrupt her work too much, but that if she had the time to give me a tour of the city, and/or meet up for coffee, then that would be great.

 

a friend told me to just ask about visiting in a fb message back, that it was more casual than calling her up to do it.

 

That sounds great! Now here's your big thing: DON'T PUSH THE SUBJECT. Be cool and let her get back to you on her own time (especially since you know she's busy with studies). You told her you don't want to interrupt her work too much, and whether you know it or not, you just made her a promise. If you don't hold up this promise, you're going to look weak in her eyes. Give her time not only with this message, but every message that you send her. Be confident that you'll get a response, and just wait for it.

 

You're seriously doing a great job with turning this around. That message back from her sounded wonderful. She responded very positively to your song, and was also willing to share a lot of information with you that you wouldn't have gotten if she wanted to shut you out. Your door is starting to open again, but you have to play your cards right. ESPECIALLY the patience card.

[winniethepooh]

So evidently she is back at school and not home for a few days. Her reply to the song that I sent. "thanks for the song! how's the guitar going? im in the US right now. I flew here for a couple of days for Dean of Students candidate interviews (school flew me haha). im on the search committee. i really really have to buckle down on the thesis!! i cant believe polisci had a complete rough draft due by mid january. for black studies i just need a chapter. i was talking about it with Sarat and he says its because Black studies isn't a serious department haha. i have mad respect for what you did last interterm haha."

It's a pleasant friendly message but there's no useful information.

 

1. Maybe she's just being friendly because she just wants to be friends at best.

2. Maybe she's just being friendly because she doesn't want to be rude, but couldn't really care less about the stupid song.

3. Maybe she didn't know what to make of your cryptic message but replied to try and keep some sort of communication going (if she was posting here about receiving a song from a flaky dumper, I think it's a fair bet there would be a chorus of posters going NC! NC! NC! Ya ya ya!!!).

 

If you're lucky, it's #3. But don't rely on luck.

 

At least she's communicating, so do a better job of communicating with her. Or take the risk and carry on playing games. But you're in a bad place to try to do that.

 

So you would suggest that I try and see if it's possible to go to her city for a couple days when she gets back, and then keep casual contact until May?

I would suggest you communicate with her. Properly, not by sending song lyrics.

 

I was thinking of keeping this conversation going casually for a day or two,

Then you'll have a casual relationship or friendship or break-up.

 

then calling her and saying, "Hi, so I would still like to come to _____, I know you are trying to crack down on the thesis, so I'll probably stay at a hostel so that I don't interrupt your work ethic, but it would be great to see you if you want to take an afternoon to give me a tour around and maybe grab a coffee or something."

Sounds casual, patronising, and lackadaisical. Maybe that's the way to play it, but it's patently false and she probably knows it. This is not someone you're meeting for the first time for a date, and doing the dance of what do you want from each other. This is someone who feels spurned and burned by you, and possibly has moved on significantly from where you are.

 

What do you think?

It's difficult because you don't know where she's at. She's a scared cat and you're trying to get her to come to you without making her jump and run away. But she doesn't know what you want. The casual approach might work, but then again she might think you're just pissing about, and ignore you, especially if there's someone else on the scene to entice her away.

 

Or something like this ...

 

"Hi, I know there was a plan to meet this week but that didn't happen. I would still like to try and make it happen if you are willing to meet me for a coffee or two. I'll stay in a hostel so we can focus on just having a chat over coffee, because after all this time apart, I'm sure our perspectives have shifted at least a little. Honestly, my motivation is a desire to see if we can find a way back towards a relationship together, but I'm willing to come with an open mind and just meet as friends, and part as amicably as possible if that is the best way to go from here. All I ask is that you try to have an open mind about the direction we go in from here. That's why I think it's important that we meet - these sorts of conversations are better done in person. I know I've messed you around and been flaky about our relationship. I want to stop being like that, one way or another. Breaking up and not communicating any more is of course one way to do that, but it's not what I want. If it's not what you want either, or if you're not sure about what you want, then lets at least try together to see if we can want the same thing, and go forwards from there."

 

But that might be too much, and scare her away.

 

well i did it, i replied to her last message and told her i was most likely going to still go to her city, casually said that i would be fine staying at a hostel since i don't want to interrupt her work too much, but that if she had the time to give me a tour of the city, and/or meet up for coffee, then that would be great.

Ok, well maybe you can follow up with a version of what I suggested ... IF you think it's a good idea. If you have even the slightest doubt about what I suggested, then don't. It is vital that any communication genuinely comes from you.

 

Perhaps with a bit of luck, other posters will comment on my suggestion, good or bad, to give you more perspective.

 

a friend told me to just ask about visiting in a fb message back, that it was more casual than calling her up to do it.

Do you really want to be more casual? Do you really want to use FB as a relationship problem solver?

[shackazu]

It's a pleasant friendly message but there's no useful information.

 

1. Maybe she's just being friendly because she just wants to be friends at best.

2. Maybe she's just being friendly because she doesn't want to be rude, but couldn't really care less about the stupid song.

3. Maybe she didn't know what to make of your cryptic message but replied to try and keep some sort of communication going (if she was posting here about receiving a song from a flaky dumper, I think it's a fair bet there would be a chorus of posters going NC! NC! NC! Ya ya ya!!!).

 

If you're lucky, it's #3. But don't rely on luck.

 

At least she's communicating, so do a better job of communicating with her. Or take the risk and carry on playing games. But you're in a bad place to try to do that.

 

I know she wants to be friends. She has told me before that I'm one of her closest friends in the world, that we will be friends for life, etc. etc. And she almost started to cry when I told her I couldn't and didn't want to be just friends, not now or in the future. So unfortunately, possibility.

 

 

I would suggest you communicate with her. Properly, not by sending song lyrics.

 

Ok, wait a minute. I didn't just send her song lyrics or a song. I sent the song, but also sent a message saying "Hey, I know you are probably working hard on your thesis now while you are home, I just wanted to send you some encouragement, and in case you need a new song to put on repeat until play count 300 ... [song].

 

 

 

Sounds casual, patronising, and lackadaisical. Maybe that's the way to play it, but it's patently false and she probably knows it. This is not someone you're meeting for the first time for a date, and doing the dance of what do you want from each other. This is someone who feels spurned and burned by you, and possibly has moved on significantly from where you are.

 

****, well I already sent it... I said other things too, I mean I replied to her message, but then at the end I said that about still wanting to come, but that I could stay at a hostel to not interrupt her work. I probably said that I was sorry for not getting in touch about whether or not I was coming and that it was because I was unsure... But, at this point I think she knows that I want to be together, after our last Skype conversation even though it was two months ago, but I don't know. I was trying not to put pressure on her by getting into serious stuff via Facebook because, exactly, I don't want to use Facebook. Maybe a phone call would have been better, I don't know.

 

My goal at this point is I don't want to end up having a relationship discussion over Facebook or phone. If we have one, I want it to be in person. And I'm willing to play the long game. I talked with a friend--more my friend, but he was in my year at university, and he knows her too--and his perspective was that IF she were to give us another shot, she might be more ready to do that in May, after the stress of senior year (and all her stress in particular, being SGA president and writing a thesis). He thought that I had two options, either put it all on the table now, or go now, talk about it if she brings it up, but otherwise just use it as an opportunity to spend time together and then wait until May to really try and give it another go. At any rate, I doubt I will be able to hide my feelings from her, whether I say anything or not, it will probably be obvious from my eyes or something that I still love her. She's the most perceptive person I have ever met, and has always been able to read my like an open book.

 

EDIT: Also Winnie, no idea if you would make anything of this, but in that Skype conversation in mid November, she said the following things: That we are perfect together on paper, but that we had problems (should have asked her if she wanted to talk about them to get her talking, but I didn't); That it takes a long time to become the kind of person she wants to spend the rest of her life with, and that if we were meant to be together then we would be, and then she said "maybe in five years, i don't know."

[winniethepooh]

I know she wants to be friends. She has told me before that I'm one of her closest friends in the world, that we will be friends for life, etc. etc.

Sometimes people who you think you'll be friends for life with are your friend until they find their next friend for life.

 

You won't know what sort of friendship you want until after you completely get over the relationship break-up. At the moment the friends desire reflects a desire for pain avoidance, not friendship. And hey, maybe that works for some people or sometimes. But it doesn't seem to be doing you any good right now, so don't do it.

 

Anyway, it's kind of odd, given that you dumped her. I think I'm not thinking straight right now.

 

And she almost started to cry when I told her I couldn't and didn't want to be just friends, not now or in the future. So unfortunately, possibility.

So the pain of losing you manifests itself. But this sounds like she's the dumper and you're the dumpee. Why am I confused about this?

 

Ok, wait a minute. I didn't just send her song lyrics or a song. I sent the song, but also sent a message saying "Hey, I know you are probably working hard on your thesis now while you are home, I just wanted to send you some encouragement, and in case you need a new song to put on repeat until play count 300 ... [song].

Ok, so you're being friendly. Is that what you want to do?

 

****, well I already sent it... I said other things too, I mean I replied to her message, but then at the end I said that about still wanting to come, but that I could stay at a hostel to not interrupt her work. I probably said that I was sorry for not getting in touch about whether or not I was coming and that it was because I was unsure...

Ok, sounds like a decent effort.

 

But, at this point I think she knows that I want to be together,

You're not sure she knows this?

 

after our last Skype conversation even though it was two months ago, but I don't know.

Hmm. In two months a lot can change. What you wanted then might not be what you want now - well, that's what she might think.

 

I was trying not to put pressure on her by getting into serious stuff via Facebook because, exactly, I don't want to use Facebook. Maybe a phone call would have been better, I don't know.

Facebook bad.

No, I think a letter (email) was better under the circumstances. It gives her something to process and digest in her own good time, and refer back to. A phone call also has merit but if you haven't communicated much over the past few months, something heavy over the phone might make her jump.

 

My goal at this point is I don't want to end up having a relationship discussion over Facebook or phone.

Definitely not FB, preferably not phone.

 

If we have one, I want it to be in person.

Yes.

 

And I'm willing to play the long game.

Playing games? Better make sure you're both playing the same game with the same rules.

 

I talked with a friend--more my friend, but he was in my year at university, and he knows her too--and his perspective was that IF she were to give us another shot, she might be more ready to do that in May, after the stress of senior year (and all her stress in particular, being SGA president and writing a thesis). He thought that I had two options, either put it all on the table now, or go now, talk about it if she brings it up, but otherwise just use it as an opportunity to spend time together and then wait until May to really try and give it another go.

Playing with fire talking to a mutual friend about this. You don't know what distortions are introduced to the information flow and opinions. You don't know what conversations he and her are having. You don't know what opinion about you goes back to her. You don't know what hidden agendas (if any) are in play.

 

What if he's wrong about his opinion that she might be more ready to give it another shot in May?

 

Stick to non-mutual friends if you really want to talk to someone.

 

At any rate, I doubt I will be able to hide my feelings from her, whether I say anything or not, it will probably be obvious from my eyes or something that I still love her. She's the most perceptive person I have ever met, and has always been able to read my like an open book.

Yes, so no point in trying to be clever about this, or pretend you're cool and hip, dude, when you're not.

 

EDIT: Also Winnie, no idea if you would make anything of this, but in that Skype conversation in mid November, she said the following things: That we are perfect together on paper, but that we had problems (should have asked her if she wanted to talk about them to get her talking, but I didn't);

Yes, not just to get her talking, but to resolve them.

 

That it takes a long time to become the kind of person she wants to spend the rest of her life with,

Eh? Is she talking about you or her? Sounds daft anyway.

 

and that if we were meant to be together then we would be,

Oh God, not another one of those if we're meant to be comments. Groan.

 

and then she said "maybe in five years, i don't know."

Five years!? What is she talking about? What's she going to do for the next five years while you sit there waiting for her to make up her mind?

 

Those two comments would scare me away ... in theory. If I was in love with someone who said that, I guess I'd be a dribbling puppy and say yes sir no sir three bags full sir.

 

Dunno what to suggest from here. At least wait to see what, if any, response you get to her message. Don't send her anything else in the meantime. And stay away from Facebook.

[oldenoughtoknow]

To the OP, I think you missed the point of NC. If you want to reconcile, NC is an interim measure. It will open the door. It won't take you all the way to your goal. You don't continue NC until one day your ex magically shows up at your door with their bags in hand ready to move back in and play house as before.

 

NC has two benefits. The first is obvious if there is no chance of a reconciliation, it's the best way for you to move on with your life. The second benefit of NC is that it gives your ex the gift of missing you. They get to experience life without you. That's your best shot at getting someone back. All of a sudden, you're gone, and they're alone, and they get to think about your laugh, your smile, that cute little thing you did with your nose. If you beg, plead and squeal for him/her to come back to you, that's plainly not attractive and you're doing your absolute best to push them away. If there is anything left to salvage, NC gives you the best shot at piquing your ex's interest.

 

In your case - whether NC got her to ask you to come stay with her family for a week or not - that offer, that olive branch, is when you end NC. If you want to reconcile, you don't turn down someone's offer to reconcile. Did you really think that?!?

[shackazu]

oldenoughtoknow - that offer was extended during the "breakup" from our unspecified status quasi relationship. in the midst of all the things she told me--hating not knowing what we were, being unsure, not having the emotional energy to figure us out in her head, etc. etc.--she also said, "but i would still love it if you came to visit me in january." so it was never really an extended reconciliation offer after a period of NC.

 

winnie - "sounds like she is the dumper and you are the dumpee, why am i confused about this?" Well, because it's not so clear cut and dry. I was always the hesitant one about long distance, from when she tried to have the conversation with me around graduation week, and then continuing on in Africa. I kept telling her I didn't think long distance would work out, but clearly I was very confused because I went to Africa with her for two months anyway... And then at the end, she had said things like she thought I needed to go abroad for the year alone, because I needed to really find myself and grow, and that's the only way it was going to happen and she couldn't be with me long term until i took care of a few things, but at the end when were on our last few days together she was the one saying hat we didn't have to break up, and stuff like that. So, she had a lot of reasons to be unhappy, and she was definitely pushed away by me. And after our breakup, she was the one acting very much like a dumpee, sending me notes about how she felt so empty without me, loved me so much, sending me sad songs and stuff, and telling me she needed some time to figure out if she could be friends with someone she was in love with (i had been the one saying can we please be friends for life, i don't want to lose you...)

 

But then when we got "back together" for our three week quasi whatever (because I went back, but was still so scared of "long distance" that she suggested the "be in pre-relationship like with each other phase," after those three weeks she was the one saying conflicting things (that she missed me terribly, thought of me all the time even when meeting with administrators, didn't have the emotional energy to do what she needed to do that year and figure us out, wasn't sure if she loved me the way she should, etc. etc.) and telling me that we should break up for real. and then i was the one who pleaded and told her that i didn't want to break up etc. So, you're confused because it's confusing. We are both dumper and dumpee, but me dumper moreso because I pushed her away and kind of left her to deal with feeling that i wasn't committed and wasn't reciprocating her feelings for months. Along with the fact that she felt like she "wasn't the girl for me because i'm not the right color." I don't even know how she could have still felt anything for me after feeling like that, even if it isn't true, (she took my own uncomfortableness about my own mixed racial identity as me wanting to be with a white blond girl, which isn't true, but my own acceptance of me is something i have been working on). So she is the one who was hurt and pushed away even if she technically ended things in September.

[shackazu]

I also thought of another mistake I made... In that conversation where I put it on the table that I wanted back together, one thing she said was "I know exactly how I want you to treat me, I just honestly honestly don't know if you will." And then for the next couple days after that conversation, we talked pretty normally more frequently than any time since we had been together last. But then I took the advice of a friend who said that I should back off and give her space... so I did. I stopped initiating conversation as frequently, and I started taking more time to reply to her texts/messages, and then two weeks later, boom. I should have taken the opportunity to build ever increasingly close communication. By backing off, thinking I was giving her room to think, I probably gave her the impression that I wasn't going to treat her the way she wanted, that I was getting distanced again, and that she wasn't going to be my priority...

[shackazu]

well, she saw the message at 8 am yesterday, and i assumed she would respond before going to bed, but still no reply guess all i can do is wait now. here was my full message:

 

ah cool, i hope the search is going well. Are they putting you up at the _____ too? [joke, nvm ENA-ers] guitar is good – i think learning another language has helped my patience, as i have been playing scales to get better at finger picking and playing notes faster. Still so many ways i can improve but it's coming along! and playing is fun anyway.

 

haha, so tonight i went to a ballet interpretation of Don Quixote. I'm trying to do so many cultural things because I have this student only card that makes everything 5 euros. it was really cool, i'm always really impressed by dancers, they have to have so much strength.

 

When do you get back home? i would still like to come to _____, i know you need to get your chapter in order and i don’t want to interrupt that too much, so i can stay at a hostel, but if you have some free time to give me a tour, maybe grab coffee or a bit to eat, that would be really great.

[winniethepooh]

well, she saw the message at 8 am yesterday, and i assumed she would respond before going to bed,

Why would you assume that?

 

but still no reply guess all i can do is wait now.

No, you can send her another message or phone her or stalk her or harass her or manipulate her ... or lots of things.

 

The best thing to do is to leave her alone and go and do something else to distract you.

 

She might want time to process the message, think of a reply. Maybe she's busy - didn't you say she had a thesis to write or something? Maybe she wants to wind you up a bit.

 

here was my full message:

Doesn't really change what I said before. I still think it's not clear. So I think it's quite possible she is confused and wondering what you're playing at. Where in the message does it say why you want to meet for a coffee? It could sound like you just want to be friends, and if that's not what she wants, then she might not be interested in going through more pain.

 

My ex sent me a message once (not long after she walked away) asking if I wanted to meet for a coffee. The tone was like yours. I replied and said it sounded like she just wanted to meet as friends and I didn't want to do that yet. I didn't get a reply, but it messed me up emotionally for a long time afterwards, wondering if I blew a chance to get back together. Don't leave her potentially thinking like that. Ok, I know your situation is less clear cut, but that's even more reason to seek clarity and offer clarity.

 

In the meantime, go and visit more of those cultural things with that student card. I'm jealous !

[winniethepooh]

I also thought of another mistake I made... In that conversation where I put it on the table that I wanted back together, one thing she said was "I know exactly how I want you to treat me, I just honestly honestly don't know if you will."

What sort of BS is this?

 

She's expecting you to be a mind-reader?

 

And then for the next couple days after that conversation, we talked pretty normally more frequently than any time since we had been together last. But then I took the advice of a friend who said that I should back off and give her space... so I did. I stopped initiating conversation as frequently, and I started taking more time to reply to her texts/messages, and then two weeks later, boom.

Boom?

 

The trouble with taking advice from friends, or from me or anyone else who posts here, is that if it's wrong, then you feel like crap when things turn sour. You had better agree with it 100% before you start doing what other people suggest.

 

I should have taken the opportunity to build ever increasingly close communication. By backing off, thinking I was giving her room to think,

A good thought, a good reason, nothing wrong with giving people a bit of space. But don't play games with it.

 

I probably gave her the impression that I wasn't going to treat her the way she wanted, that I was getting distanced again, and that she wasn't going to be my priority...

Yeah, well, who knows. Given her earlier comment, I think you need to worry less about time periods between communication and more about balanced and clear communication. If she sends a message, reply when it's a good time to reply, not when exactly 1 or 4 or 10 hours later because somebody told you to do that. You don't have to be (and shouldn't be) a slave to her time schedule, but don't try to make her a slave to yours either.

[winniethepooh]

winnie - "sounds like she is the dumper and you are the dumpee, why am i confused about this?" Well, because it's not so clear cut and dry.

Didn't quote the rest. But it's clear now why it's not clear. It's confusing.

 

Well, that's what happens when people don't communicate properly. But I accept how difficult that can be when you discover that something that sounds like a good idea in your head, ends up feeling the complete opposite when you take action. Hence the turmoil both of you felt.

 

You could consider sending her those two paragraphs about the confusion. Perhaps rewrite it so it's not addressed to me, but is an observation of what it is or was for you. Wait and give her a chance to reply to your other message first.

[shackazu]

Why would you assume that?

 

Advantage of sending private messages via Facebook...it tells you when the person opened the message.

 

 

Doesn't really change what I said before. I still think it's not clear. So I think it's quite possible she is confused and wondering what you're playing at. Where in the message does it say why you want to meet for a coffee? It could sound like you just want to be friends, and if that's not what she wants, then she might not be interested in going through more pain.

 

My ex sent me a message once (not long after she walked away) asking if I wanted to meet for a coffee. The tone was like yours. I replied and said it sounded like she just wanted to meet as friends and I didn't want to do that yet. I didn't get a reply, but it messed me up emotionally for a long time afterwards, wondering if I blew a chance to get back together. Don't leave her potentially thinking like that. Ok, I know your situation is less clear cut, but that's even more reason to seek clarity and offer clarity.

 

In the meantime, go and visit more of those cultural things with that student card. I'm jealous !

 

She's the one who has told me multiple times that she wants to be friends, so I thought I would have more positive results if I didn't try and push the get back together sentiment yet until I am in person. She has said several times, "when you visit, it will be as a friend, that's how I see you." "I understand if you can't be friends with me now, because that's how I used to feel, but I will be your friend whenever you need me or are ready." And stuff like that.

 

 

I guess maybe this is could be a good sign. If she really did just want to be friends, she probably would have responded already. That she hasn't means it must be causing her to think, which means that some of the stuff she was saying she said either because she thought she needed to in order to not lead me on (she also said several times that she didn't want to lead me on) or because she was trying to convince herself; but maybe she still has a lot of feelings for me that she is dealing with. Or she's just not going to think about it until her meetings with admin. and Dean of Students candidates are over, which would go in line with something else she said, "To be fair, I don't have the emotional energy to think about us right now, so I don't" (when I first broached my feelings for her in late October).

[shackazu]

2 days since she saw my message and she still hasn't replied.

 

any advice? i was thinking that if i still don't get a reply by tonight (will be her afternoon though), i would send a text saying, "hi, so it seems like you are kind of unsure about whether or not you would like to see me. i'm going to come to _____ from sunday through wednesday, and i would really love to see you if you decide that you want to."

[winniethepooh]

Advantage of sending private messages via Facebook...it tells you when the person opened the message.

Disadvantage of sending private messages via Facebook ... it encourages stalker tendencies in people.

 

Don't be so smug about using Facebook.

 

2 days since she saw my message and she still hasn't replied.

She's either thinking (let her) or doesn't want to see you but doesn't know how to tell you (wait until she finds a way).

 

any advice?

Leave her alone until she replies. Even if it take a year.

 

And next time you get an opportunity like this, don't be so vague or cryptic. In the meantime, think about my comments to figure out if you agree or not. Other people will give different advice that might be more appropriate or agreeable or both.

 

i was thinking that if i still don't get a reply by tonight (will be her afternoon though), i would send a text saying, "hi, so it seems like you are kind of unsure about whether or not you would like to see me. i'm going to come to _____ from sunday through wednesday, and i would really love to see you if you decide that you want to."

That sounds kind of you being kind of unsure about everything but you would really love to see her and you're worried and insecure about whether or not she would like to see you so you're going to send a message that pretends to say you're not worried and insecure but actually sounds like you really are.

[shackazu]

That sounds kind of you being kind of unsure about everything but you would really love to see her and you're worried and insecure about whether or not she would like to see you so you're going to send a message that pretends to say you're not worried and insecure but actually sounds like you really are.

 

I guess that's accurate. However, I am really thinking about just going on Sunday. I can still get a flight for like 50 euros, not a big deal. She probably would meet me. I don't see how I have anything to lose by doing it...do you?