OrangeMoon Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I probably didnt write it the right way or chosen the wrong word..but virility or whatever..meant male sexyness ;-) My ex was boring,but sexy as hell..I could deal with the fact that nothing much came from him...and had to come from me. Boring doesnt equal good guy to me or the other way around. We were talking about attraction right? I have never been with inherently 'bad guys'--they were all good guys. but the one I dumped was too attached, he suffocated me with his love..and the one I was more drawn too, was emotionally more closed off. So my so called 'bad guy' would be the emotionally unavailable guy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Man Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 not all good guys are perfect you know.. Just thought I'd add - no one is perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd43953 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 What I am saying is that people tend to look for what is familiar in their own family, that doesnt mean that a person will respond by dating multiple guys if she didnt have a father, instead she might look for men who are unavailable emotionally of physically since that is familiar to her. As far as complaining about relationships, that is just what people do because they are frustrated but I would think that if you are continually unhappy with your partner complaining about them and you are saying with them then clearly there is some insecurity about leaving the person and being alone. Day_Walker, I know follow you. Definitely eye opening to say the lease. I think also many of these relationships that you find people in are a bit toxic is some form or another. Just like you have adrenaline junkies. I believe there are actually people who get high and addicted to drama. Like being upset, frustrated becomes some much of a regular routine that they in turn see this as normal behavior. In my opinon you cant come into any relationship broken and many of the people saying that want a "good man" or "good woman" are broken in some fashion. They view that "good man/woman" as the end all be all, but thus end up using those qualities that the "good partner" posses as an emotional band-aid until they are in a better state emotonally then boom, there goes the neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl3asehelp Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I probably didnt write it the right way or chosen the wrong word..but virility or whatever..meant male sexyness ;-) My ex was boring,but sexy as hell..I could deal with the fact that nothing much came from him...and had to come from me. Boring doesnt equal good guy to me or the other way around. We were talking about attraction right? I have never been with inherently 'bad guys'--they were all good guys. but the one I dumped was too attached, he suffocated me with his love..and the one I was more drawn too, was emotionally more closed off. So my so called 'bad guy' would be the emotionally unavailable guy.. Ok. But, please don't say you'd advise a man to be emotionally unavailable because some women (you) find that attractive. The guy should just be himself and find a woman who finds him attractive that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capuccino83 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think that the first reasons is immaturity, lack of emotional stability and so on. I've seen a lot of men and women claim that they want a relationship but always go for drama because it's 'exciting'. For a lot of people.. it's just what they are use to and perhaps they are afraid of stepping outside their comfort zone. And yes, being in a drama filled relationship or with someone who treats you poorly can be a comfort zone. The second reason is that I think that a lot of "good" people actually use goodness to cover up insecurities and neediness, which is NOT attractive. I've met a lot of guys like this - they are really nice but they are working so hard to please, which usually comes with some desperation. It becomes very uncomfortable when someone is "too nice" and I think in the early stages, it really does kill attraction pretty quickly. In particular I had one coworker friend like this who went out of his way to be nicer to girls that the situation warranted. No one can say that he wasn't a nice guy, but it wasn't very attractive. Most of the nice guys that I know that are actually able to balance the appropriate level of being nice are in decent relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorshammer Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Define "nice", since nice is always mistranslated. Being needy and clingy could be NICE, since you give your lover whatever they want, dont leave their side, and you appreciate them and want them around you as much as possible. Unfortunately, that kills attraction. I remember the young skinny goofy me dating girls that ate me up when they saw weakness. So, i stopped being "nice" and turned cold and bitter (mean). When I had this change... i got more girls, and waaaaay more attention. With time I learned its not a nice or mean thing, its certain behavioral traits that are displayed that loses attraction that I am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capuccino83 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 ^ I think you can totally be nice and still value yourself (which drives the actions that lead to attraction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewing Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The grass is rather nice right now right where I am. And I'm in no hurry to get in with another... There's a girl who has my heart if she wants it. But really, it matters not if she takes it, because I've already figured out for myself what I want - and right now, well, I have it - happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorshammer Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 ^ I think you can totally be nice and still value yourself (which drives the actions that lead to attraction). I didnt say anything about not being nice. Define "nice", since nice is always mistranslated. Being needy and clingy could be NICE, since you give your lover whatever they want, dont leave their side, and you appreciate them and want them around you as much as possible. Unfortunately, that kills attraction. I remember the young skinny goofy me dating girls that ate me up when they saw weakness. So, i stopped being "nice" and turned cold and bitter (mean). When I had this change... i got more girls, and waaaaay more attention. With time I learned its not a nice or mean thing, its certain behavioral traits that are displayed that loses attraction that I am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agatha Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I believe the problem is this whole concept of good/nice x bad. Someone who never says 'no' to you is not being nice, is being a doormat. If you are with someone who never pays enough attention to you, then the doormat is you. Someone above posted that a complete woman + a complete man = stable relationship , which is my belief too. I really enjoy my relationships when we build ourselves through dialogue and consensus building - decisions are taken together, and conflicts can be solved through concessions (tonight we go out separately to meet our friends). But it really takes a grown up to not turn all of this into neverending drama... still on the search =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewing Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If I never say no to her, and she never says no to me...who's the doormat? And maybe, just maybe, we're both being reasonable in our demands...or at least presenting them to the other in a way where the other is happy to oblidge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agatha Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 both, none, and it doesn't matter because such a situation doesn't exist - there's always a "not today, I've got a headache" on the path of your utopic example. but talking about being reasonable, my third paragraph is on consensus building. any demand is reasonable, as long as the other is willing to comply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay_home Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 A lot of people are just not ready to make that level of committment. Still stuck on "me" time, I suppose. I don't really date very much because of it, every now and then I do. But I don't put forth as much effort because not only is it not worth it, it's a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeMoon Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ok. But, please don't say you'd advise a man to be emotionally unavailable because some women (you) find that attractive. The guy should just be himself and find a woman who finds him attractive that way. Where in the hell did i say that????? I don't even give myself that kind of advice..your interpretation is kind of warped. I merely mentioned that the one 'good guy' that had me hooked more was the one that turned out to be emotionally unavailable/closed off ..and thus I consider that my 'bad guy'. If I am saying anything is that good guys stay sexy..that's it. Emotional unavailability is not sexy at all..its draining and useless. But once you're hooked its hard distancing yourself from that if you are a female pursuer. The whole good guy,bad guy thing does not exist..unless the guy is truly a bad guy (abuser etc).. but I have always been with good men. We just weren't right for each other. If this is a thread about what a good guy should do..than I must have understood it wrong. You should always be yourself ..only the plain,boring and always too nice ones need to sexy up somewhere. But that's my opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd43953 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 capuccino83, Thanks for your input.. you have some really good points and views regarding the topic. However, what if the guy/girl is old fashioned and when in a relationship they go all out for their parther, not out of insecurities or needienss but just because that is their view on the relationship and how they should operate. Why would that be deemed unattractive? I mean everyone wheres a mask at some point so I think it would be notice if the niceness was a cover up for that person lacking something or if that person was genuinely a bleeding heart personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd43953 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Define "nice", since nice is always mistranslated. Being needy and clingy could be NICE, since you give your lover whatever they want, dont leave their side, and you appreciate them and want them around you as much as possible. Unfortunately, that kills attraction. I remember the young skinny goofy me dating girls that ate me up when they saw weakness. So, i stopped being "nice" and turned cold and bitter (mean). When I had this change... i got more girls, and waaaaay more attention. With time I learned its not a nice or mean thing, its certain behavioral traits that are displayed that loses attraction that I am missing. Thorshammer, You are right..in a relationship both parties need their space. However to an extent everybody wants the person that is willing to give them what they want, to be by their side, and to appreciate them and want to be around them as much as possible. However back to the topic of the thread, when these people say they want a "good man/woman" is that not essentially what they are asking for? Me personally I think the idea of being the "good man/woman" to any relationship, is to be the emotional bandaid of sorts. You usually dont see people who are happy and complete in themselves going around saying "where are all the good men/woman" at? It is usually the ones who are hurt, damaged, insecure, need an ego boost who say this. They then get the good person and suck the life out of them like a vampire and then once they feel better to say the least, that same "good man/woman" no longer has that value. They become the typical " too good for me" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd43953 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 I believe the problem is this whole concept of good/nice x bad. Someone who never says 'no' to you is not being nice, is being a doormat. If you are with someone who never pays enough attention to you, then the doormat is you. Someone above posted that a complete woman + a complete man = stable relationship , which is my belief too. I really enjoy my relationships when we build ourselves through dialogue and consensus building - decisions are taken together, and conflicts can be solved through concessions (tonight we go out separately to meet our friends). But it really takes a grown up to not turn all of this into neverending drama... Agatha, still on the search =) Agatha, I agree it takes two grown ups to keep the dram to a minimum and the communication to a maximum. The problem is again that everyone wears a mask when in the beginning stages of relationship building. As much as we would like to think that the other pesron is being real, one never knows. What we do know is that a person will always show their true colors at some point in time and that mask comes off. However for whatever reason, many of us overlook the red flags leading up to that for whatever reason and just settle. Basically taking the nice positon to the position of being the doormat, because you are already in a mind set of settling (and the reason for you settling are probably things like lonliness, insecurity, longing, etc). Now this relationship takes place this person becomes used and abused, then they look for a so called "good man/woman" to step in an be superman/woman only to do to them what they had experienced. Thus becoming a vicious cycle of hurting. Is that really the course that most relationship are coming to today? (just a rant or clouded view of what seems to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay_home Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 It really just comes down to who it is your talking to because not everybody really wants to be involved. It's a lot of work and often you find people who just want the honeymoon phase of the relationship but they don't really want to put in work. When you have to start sacrificing, being committed, contributing your free time, some of your privacy, learning to share, learning to make certain decisions together and not only doing these things every day, but every week and every year that you're together. Nobody is putting a gun to our heads and telling us these things, but you have to really want to do it and really want to be a part of something such as a relationship. Not very many of us wish to be tied down to that kind of responsibility and expectation. It's too much. It's a lot of motions that goes along with it. It gets harder as it goes along; challenging us each and everyday, challenging our patience, our will, our loyality, dedication, our committment to this. You have to be strong-minded, willing to listen, willing to participate, willing to give and willing to get. Who wants to really do all of that? Now you do have some women out there who really do. And usually the ones who do have seen enough to know that dealing with some bad ass, or some wannabe, someone full of front and no back is a waste of time to have to wait on growing up. Some women choose that path because it's more familiar and they know what to expect then for some hero to come riding along on a magic carpet and push her off as soon as heart gets settled. I can't say that I have't done that myself and made those kind of mistakes before. I've made some errors, but I've corrected those and have evolved into not only what I'm asking of a person to offer, but myself I am able to offer it as well. It's a lifestyle. You have to want to give yourself in that respect and respect the fact that it isn't just about you anymore. That is an element that I think not a lot of people really can accept. They don't want be #2. And guess what, when you start having kids, you get much further and further down the list. Nobody can do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think ~2 sided coin~ hit the nail on the head to be honest, this is my observation/opinion as well. I read a book that says in a marriage every ten years the responsibility of each partner doubles. Love is not the honeymoon phase, the emotions, the sex or the romance. Those are only the positive attributes of being in a healthy relationship. In the end, it's the commitment that declares the two people's love for each other that says they'll be there for each other no matter what. An immature, emotionally unavailable, narcissistic, prideful, abusive man or women can not offer that kind of love because in the end, they're in it for themselves. A relationship really asks that you put the relationship's needs before your own ("us" instead of "me" mentality). A person who isn't ready for a relationship is often only willing to put in what he or she will get out of it, selfishness destroys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl3asehelp Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I probably didnt write it the right way or chosen the wrong word..but virility or whatever..meant male sexyness ;-) My ex was boring,but sexy as hell..I could deal with the fact that nothing much came from him...and had to come from me. Boring doesnt equal good guy to me or the other way around. We were talking about attraction right? I have never been with inherently 'bad guys'--they were all good guys. but the one I dumped was too attached, he suffocated me with his love..and the one I was more drawn too, was emotionally more closed off. So my so called 'bad guy' would be the emotionally unavailable guy.. You are saying pretty clearly right here that you are/were more drawn to an emotionally closed off man than one that was 'too attached' and 'suffocated you with his love'. I think men reading this could reasonably come to the conclusion that they could be more attractive to women, or at least to you, by acting more emotionally closed off, even if it goes against their nature, which I don't think would make for a healthy, happy relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The walkingman Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Define "nice", since nice is always mistranslated. Being needy and clingy could be NICE, since you give your lover whatever they want, dont leave their side, and you appreciate them and want them around you as much as possible. Unfortunately, that kills attraction. I remember the young skinny goofy me dating girls that ate me up when they saw weakness. So, i stopped being "nice" and turned cold and bitter (mean). When I had this change... i got more girls, and waaaaay more attention. With time I learned its not a nice or mean thing, its certain behavioral traits that are displayed that loses attraction that I am missing. Unfortunately this is true, and something that lead to my last breakup.... she was very depressed so I treated her as nice as I possibly could and she ended up dumping me. She ended up with someone who is a "bad guy" 2 weeks later the exact reasons of which I will probably never know. going NIC for life with her now. I think being "mean" can be confused with confidence. You can't always submit to a girl gotta tell them how it is gonna be sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agatha Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 good points about the mask, jsd. but the problem is not that the mask falls - is when we find out we don't actually like what's beneath the mask. be it that we didn't understand or chose to ignore the red flags, it's when we find out we don't really like the filling (or the other person finds it first) that our problems begin. there is the settling problem, that leads to the circle you pointed, and there is also the pride problem - if the rejection happened before the mask fell, it would have been ok, but right then the person feels completely rejected because s/he let go of all (or most) of her shields, and then s/he builds even higher walls and puts on thicker masks. unfortunately, I have to agree with you, it turns out to be a masquerade. unless, of course, the individual chooses to work out his/her issues and not only heal, but get into the next relationship more aware of what s/he is really looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewing Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 In letting go of all of most of your shields, you show this other person who you truly are. Now you say you either build stronger defenses or you "work out your issues." But here's the problem: these things are not issues that you let become exposed - those things are YOU at your core! They are not things to be diagnosed, medicated, and treated or cured; they are not wrinkles that can be ironed out! You cannot so easily become an apple if in your heart you ARE an orange, even if in an apple world you will ALWAY be ultimately rejected because you lack the right core... It is a masquerade, ultimately, a cloak and dagger. And there is very good reason for this animosity... hurt me once, Shame on you....hurt me twice, SHAME ON ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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