Does my ex have (a light form of) Borderline Personality Disorder?

[Sim54]

Ha, funny quote.

but remember, 'BDP' isn't contagious. (quotes are for the fact I don't recognise this as a disorder, but merely immaturity.

The DSM should be avoided at all costs, especially if you're not a doctor.

[manu85]

Lol, I'm not so sure about that! I notice that I, too, have become more sexually provocative and daring after my B-U, and certainly have picked up some of my ex's 'tricks' ;-) (I guess I must be crazy too!)

 

But, anyway, in response to one of the previous posts: you hit the nail on the head, I have to look carefully at how I contributed myself to be manipulated and was blind to it. That's what I'm going to work on... The most important thing is to grow and learn from one's own mistakes! But, as I said in a post on the first page (post nr. 7 or so), looking at my ex's flaws made me realize that I'm only human and that I wasn't the root of ALL evil, which helps me feel better about myself and possible future relationships.

[mannaguy]

Ha, funny quote.

but remember, 'BDP' isn't contagious. (quotes are for the fact I don't recognise this as a disorder, but merely immaturity.

The DSM should be avoided at all costs, especially if you're not a doctor.

 

Yes the kind of therapist I have wont even touch that kind of DSM terminology or logic..altho I feel as if I cant let go that it might be chemical/brain stuff..as my xgf has said BiPolar runs in the family..so maybe its BiPolar+ immaturity...???!!!

[Sim54]

Even Bi-polar is not definitely a biological/genetic/chemical thing.

So often people say 'brain chemistry' without really knowing or understanding what that could mean. It's just a phrase touted around which really means 'we don't really know what happens'

 

I think what is really important to understand is that the psyche is not measurable. You can't see it under a microscope, you can't dissect it, you can't cut open a body, and see it and that REALLY annoys doctors, as they come from a pure science background where everything must be measured and explained. Seeing as they can't explain the psyche, and certainly don't know what causes mental dis-ease, they have invented a book, the DSM, that allows them to keep their ego's and reputations intact. But it certainly doesn't help their patients.

The fact that you can't let go is in no way 'proof' of anything, least of all a chemical imbalance.

 

 

To my mind, seeing as we can measure the levels of hormones and chemicals in the blood, then if depression, OCD, ADHD, etc are chemical in nature, then there should be an easy blood test right? Well, there isn't, and as yet, there are only theories about this stuff.

 

The 'low serotonin causes depression' thing is also mis leading. It doesn't seem to occur to anyone that serotonin may drop when you are depressed, instead of you becoming depressed when your serotonin drops. One is a cause, the other a symptom. And if your serotonin has dropped, what caused it to drop? Is it the fact that your girlfriend left you, or that you lost your job, or your mother died that caused it to drop? Then in fact, the lowered neurotransmitter is a symptom of your reaction to the outside world. Rather than boosting the neurotransmitter, wouldn't it make more sense to alter the reaction to the external stimulus? In another way, saying depression is caused by low serotonin is like saying a cold is caused by a runny nose!!

 

Your therapist sounds like a good one. Labels don't heal you, and they don't allow for a sense of responsibility towards how you feel and behave. If you believe you were born defective, then you adopt a victim mentality, and don't bother to do anything about it.

[Cheetarah]

Mintiya-hi! yes I remember you now too.I thought i was 'in control' with my GF concerning her moods..but as

Ive been saying the past few days " I lost *it*"...so ya I went BPD-like a few times.Very similar to her.

 

"lie down with dogs, get up with fleas"(BPD Fleas)

-this is something I saw at link removed..however I still take responsibility for my actions!m

 

I've seen that over there, in a light manner as such and also very seriously. It makes me laugh. If you're 'acting BPDish', it's not because of someone else's 'BPD-behaviors'(also, I'd like to mention that approx. 75%+ of those on that forum, are 'guessing' at their exes BPD traits and no formal diagnosis has been given). It's your own emotional immaturity, from being unable to handle emotional stresses in a healthy manner. And it happens to every single one of us, at some point.

 

But, good for you for staying responsible for yourself.

[teller]

In the throes of no contact earlier this year but still very much struggling, I found a ton of information on BPD. It spoke to me as my ex. I even mentioned it to my psych and he handed me the same article I had been reading. I went through I pretty unhealthy phase where I read up on BPD obsessively. It's really not fair to diagnose your ex or anyone else in our lives. I just knew a lot of what happened didn't make any sense.

 

The attraction to our emotional equal comment from earlier in this thread is dead on. The more important part of this realization is why we were attracted to someone so chaotic to begin with? These break up's are hard, but they're ultimately a gift. We can get at all that crap that has been holding us back all these years. If she had a fear of abandonment so did you. I know I do. It may not have been so in your face and may have taken many more months to show up on its own, but it's very much there.

[manu85]

I disagree:

 

1. It's not about 'diagnosing' the ex, it's about realizing what went wrong, getting insight into their mistakes and ultimately insight into your relationship dynamics. I don't want to pretend being a psychiatrist, but I don't need to be one to recognize certain relationship patterns. After putting all the blame for the failed relationship on myself, it helps me tremendously to know that 1) she is not faultless herself and 2) I can't change these things about her, it's in her power only.

 

2. I don't have fear of abandonment. I have fear of commitment. Which might be just as bad, and which might at some point go accompanied with fear of abandonment, but it's not the same thing. If I ever were to suffer from true fear of abandonment, it might be after this break-up, 'cause indeed, I now learnt what being abandonded feels like, and it sure doesn't feel good.

[lalalollipops]

I once asked my ex if he had bipolar. Now looking and researching on personality disorders, it seems he has a major form of borderline personality disorder and NPD. =/ Your ex seems like she definitely has some form of the disorder for sure.

[Sim54]

Sorry to split hairs, but it's only possible for a child to be abandoned. As adults, we are completely capable of taking care of ourselves, unlike an infant, who will die if left.

Abandoned certainly fits the bill emotionally, but given time, we all see that we were't abandoned, we were left.

Almost everyone has a fear of abandonment stemming from their childhood, and almost everyone also has a fear of smothering/commitment too.

We're all fairly alike.

 

I agree that it is important to find the equal share of blame or fault and to not blame ourselves, but armchair diagnosis doesn't help.

The description of BDP covers so many behaviours as to fit many, many people.

Personally, I do not believe that it exists as a verifiable disorder.

Doctors don't study psychology, and are uniquely trained to NOT listen to their patients, instead focusing on symptom hunting. After a hundred and fifty years, it's been pretty well documented by now that therapy works, but only when you are listened to, something doctors, and psychiatrists tend not to do, and they wrote the DSM.

 

Any analyst or therapist worth their salt will ignore any mention of the personality disorders as they understand that these labels do not aid therapy.

 

And to the person above who said that BDP is incurable, that is hogwash.

It is simply emotional immaturity, and people can be helped with lengthy therapy to grow up.

[chickydoodle]

Any analyst or therapist worth their salt will ignore any mention of the personality disorders as they understand that these labels do not aid therapy.

 

Does this thought apply to victims of emotional abuse or to the abuser.?

I disagree in the case of being a victim of emotional abuse, it is very helpful in accepting and letting go of an abusive relationship, if one is aware that their SO has a dysfunctional, delusional way of thinking; that their definition of Love is not 'normal'; that it is pointless trying to apply moral and ethical principles to their way of behaving' impossible to rationalise their callousness and (narcissism in my case).

I agree ,a lot of disorders stem from emotional imaturity and people can grow out of it with self work and life experiences. But some cases are THE REAL DEAL.

The callousness and lack of empathy in some cases can not be defined as mere emotional imaturity.

I think it is imperative in some cases to recognise a disordered mind rather than become manipulated and damaged by it.

It is not human nature to deliberately abuse or destroy another for ones own gain. It is a diseased mind that does this and for those of use who are moral, kind decent, loving people it is important to recognise that such diseased minds cannot and do not think in the same way we do.

In some cases, attributing these people with a label /diagnosis IS the only way to hammer home the fact they have a distorted way of viewing things.

[Sim54]

In other words, it's vital for you to believe that they are wrong and you are right?

Right?

If that is the only way you can deal with the situation you chose to involve yourself in, then fine, but you are, in a way, being abusive back, albeit in your mind and on here, and no doubt not to their face.

 

I know that you feel aggrieved and furious.

But here's the kicker.

If you truly believe that these people are mentally sick, then , well, they can't really be held accountable for their actions can they?

If they truly have a 'disordered mind' as you put it, then it's not their fault that they are like this.

People suffering from a personality disorder (as defined by the DSM) are quite literally not culpable. They are suffering from a disease that is not their fault. They were mistreated to such a degree that they have simply failed to grow to maturation with their humanity intact. Therefore, by your own definition, they are not bad people at all, just sick. You can no more be angry at them for their illness, than you can anyone else who is sick.

Is that how you see it?

Personally I think my opinion is much more damning than yours.

With my opinion, they ARE accountable for their actions. They are not sick, or disordered, just extremely immature.

 

You describe yourself as a decent moral and kind person.

My question to you is (and I don't know your specific situation so forgive any uninformed statement) but why did you treat yourself so badly as to stick around for more than a week with an apparent narcissist. And before you say you didn't realise, that doesn't wash.

 

Ultimately, if someone mistreats you once, shame on them, but if you stick around for them to continue to do it, then shame on you.

 

Regarding my original statement that I don't believe the personality disorders exist, it is based on the understanding that the people who have created these definitions are only doctors, not psychotherapists. They literally don't know what they are talking about, as anyone who has suffered any kind of mental distress is not usually allowed to practise medicine. As such,they only observe from afar without actually experiencing that which they profess to understand. Whilst it isn't necessary to have cancer to diagnose it, as you can see cancerous cells under a microscope, the same cannot be true for psychological issues. You can't see psychological disorders under a microscope, and standing on the outside looking in, is a poor substitute for actually knowing what distress is. The best therapists are those who have already walked the path from darkness to light. In fact, only someone who has walked the path of emotional healing can lead someone else along it. Just as only a mature person can lead another to maturation.

Doctors can't do it.

Nor can they recognise genuine mental illness and describe it in terms that the PATIENT can understand and learn from.

 

So, if you need to label your ex so you can wash your hands of any responsibility you might have had in playing your role in the RS then that's fine.

But ultimately I believe it doesn't help to label people, especially when one is not even remotely qualified to do it.

 

Just one more thing.

It is not human nature to deliberately abuse or destroy another for ones own gain.

I'm not sure you've noticed the human race recently, but the last hundred years alone are enough to make this statement incorrect.

Many very good and decent german citizens fell under the spell of Hitler and performed terrible things. They weren't bad people, just misguided and easily manipulated.

And it goes on and on.

Viciousness and callousness are very much part of human nature.

[chickydoodle]

I dont believe in the concept of his being wrong and I being right. I am not that basic in my thinking.

 

but I am open minded, and so self critical that I am a perfect target for someone with npd as are many others.

It has only been since his diagnosis as having a PD by a PSYCHOLOGIST- not a doctor or psychiatrist that I have - for whatever reason - been able to move on.

The ex didnt say what PD the psyc thinks he has but my own experience of him tells me NPD. Whatever npd, bpd, aspd, they all have a common thread; childhood issues, low selfworth...etc. Emotional immaturity does play a huge role but this too stems from deeper issues.

 

And Yes I do believe they have diseased minds and their impulsivity causes them to create a life of pain for themselves . They have a primal instinct for self- survival and equate Love with how their needs are going to be satisfied in a relationship.

I don’t think one can apply the same reasoning to them , so I guess I do ‘cut them some slack’ in this respect.

 

Regarding enabling my abuser to continue his abuse,

don’t worry, I have a long road ahead to answer this question. But I find some consolation in the fact that he is a masterful and ingenious, compulsive liar. And hey, I am moving on, albeit slowly and with the help of knowing he as a PD. It makes me realise that MY LOVE ‘IS NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO HELP HIM FIND HIS WAY' . It is this point that is important not that he is wrong and I am right.

 

I agree with you regarding Doctors, psychotherapists…and their differences.

 

Regarding ''It is not human nature to deliberately abuse or destroy another for ones gain''

 

Yes I have noticed the human race deviates from this statement but I don’t believe it is our true nature –the holocaust, wars, cruelty….is not who we really are. We have deviated from our true natures. I prob shouldn’t have put in the statement as it would take pages to explain it from my own philosophical point of view.

 

Anyway I hope you wont mind the fact I have diagnosed myself with a disorder.

 

It is called SBS!

 

Thank you so much for your post. It made me think/ confront some issues and beliefs.

[Sim54]

chickydoodle,

I must admit, after I wrote the above, I thought maybe I went too far.

Maybe I should go too far more often in my life.

It's funny, but I think you're right. Human nature is good at heart. I'm not sure the bad is a deviation. I believe strongly in Taoist philosophy, that good and bad are interdependent, and that each has it's seed in the other.

But yeah, could go on for pages and pages that stuff.

I'm sorry you ended up with someone so damaging but I'm betting that in the years to come you might almost look back positively on this relationship as the turning point in your life when you finally found the strength to really take care of yourself and grow into a whole adult.

I know my last 2 relationships are both positive, despite the pain they caused.

 

Great to share ideas with a 'stranger'.

 

Peace.

[RastaPasta]

I tired to diagnose my ex to make me feel better. But I realized no matter he is or isn't, I was unhappy with the way I was treated and I had every right to feel that way. When I share my experience with others they think I am making it up because they cannot believe the things I put up with. At the end of the day if he's ill or just mean, how he treated me still causes me pain.

[Sim54]

Why did you let him treat you like that?