Can't leave because of the children

[BobUK]

Married for 20 years, two children early teens. Been unhappy for a long time but stayed as could not stand to be without my children or to disappoint them by allowing them to grow up with single parents and with a lower standard of living because of dual housing costs. I stay for these reasons only and tell myself I will leave when these issues no longer matter. Also my wife is very emotional and not a strong person. She would struggle on her own. This is one of the things that makes me want to leave, she is so helpless at lots of things, no matter what kind of help I try to give her. She is devoted to me and has no inkling things are wrong, although I think recently she might have started to think so, not least because I've always been keen on sex but recently I've just not gone near her. But also I'm changing in lots of ways and I'm sure she's wondering why.

 

The reason I think I'm changing is that I have met someone else (I understand this clouds the issue). I was unhappy before we met but having spoken to my friend a bit about it (talking too much is too painful for both of us, especially her I think) I now see how so many things within me have been squashed by living this way for at least the last 10 years. I wonder what kind of person I'll be after another 10 years of it? Certainly a much older person (be 50 then). I've therefore changed little things, like standing up for myself more in arguments, saying more how I feel about things even though I know it will cause a problem with my wife, doing things I want to do not that she wants to do.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking of telling my wife how I feel but am desperately scared of the outcome. It will just be hell. But I can't see any way to fix how I feel. There's nothing to fix about how she feels - she's happy with the relationship. There are ways that she could change but there are some fundamentals that won't change (I've tried), like her alcoholism. So I don't want to debate it, I just want out. But then I don't want out cos of the kids! You know when you say 'I'd do anything for my kids', well I feel like I'm making the biggest possible sacrifice I could, continuing to live with their mother. Looked at from that point of view, it's the right thing to do.

 

I'm new here so have no idea what to expect. The one thing I did wonder was whether anyone had left their long term partner and kids and afterwards actually wished they'd stayed? Would be interested to hear their experiences. If I leave it won't be for my friend: she's attached with kids too so I'm under no illusions there. But having spent a week without my wife for the first time recently when she went away, it was just amazing to be with the kids alone, I loved it, felt happier than I've felt in years. Thanks for reading.

[Kitkat973]

Children can feel when a situation is off, and it can do more damage emotionally to be in a household with a dysfunctional relationship than it can to be at a lower economic standing.

[BobUK]

Children can feel when a situation is off, and it can do more damage emotionally to be in a household with a dysfunctional relationship than it can to be at a lower economic standing.

 

Thanks Kitkat. I would generally agree but I think we're pretty good at maintaining the illusion. They've never seen us properly fight with each other and we always present a united front. But it's interesting that on the week I had alone with them I think they enjoyed themselves more: things were much calmer and more ordered. That's one of the issues which is making me seriously wonder whether going it alone is the better way - but how indicative is one week? Thanks again

[redswim30]

Thanks Kitkat. I would generally agree but I think we're pretty good at maintaining the illusion. They've never seen us properly fight with each other and we always present a united front. But it's interesting that on the week I had alone with them I think they enjoyed themselves more: things were much calmer and more ordered. That's one of the issues which is making me seriously wonder whether going it alone is the better way - but how indicative is one week? Thanks again

 

Bob, many people think they are "good at maintaining the illusion" when generally speaking, they really aren't. Kids are very good at picking up on things, even very young ones. It's not always about "Mom and dad are shouting at each other" it can be as simple as " I never see mom and dad kiss, hold hands, etc." You and your wife may be civil with each other in front of the children (don't get me wrong, that's great) but that does not mean that they don't sense the lack of love between you two. Let me tell you as a child of parents who stopped loving each other and stayed married "for my sake"- they didn't do me any favors. It was hell growing up that way. I wish they had gotten divorced. They would have both been happier people. Now that I'm an adult I have horrible guilt over knowing I contributed to their extreme unhappiness together and to be honest I hate visiting them now and seeing the complete lack of any love whatsoever. Keep that in mind, your kids wont be kids forever. And sometimes when people get divorced, they actually become BETTER parents since they can focus more on their children and less on their own unhappiness.

 

That being said, you need to think about what you really want, leaving your wife and children out of it for a minute. IMVHO, you don't do anyone any favors by "pretending" to be with their mom fully if it's not really in your heart. This is not fair to you OR to your wife. Your wife is a grown woman who can take care of herself. It's not your job to ensure her happiness or stability in life, so I don't really see that as a reason to stay with her. Adding my two, I think it's kinda condescending to be honest. I'm sure she could manage. IMVHO, the only reason you should stay with a spouse is because you genuinely love them. Otherwise, it's not a marriage but a business arrangement. If you want to stay with your wife, then I think you need to have a serious chat with her about how you're feeling and possibly try marriage counseling. Otherwise, nothing will get better. If you think there is really something to save, then this is a good way to pursue that avenue. But nothing will get better by being complacent. However, if you really don't think anything will improve or you really have no desire to try to repair a broken marriage, then you should be honest with everyone and think about how you wish to move forward. But IMVHO, make sure you are saving you marriage for the right reasons, otherwise things will only get worse. All the Best to you.

[lavenderdove]

So what you're saying is you're willing to wait another 7-10 years and leave your wife when she's middle aged, 50 or older?

 

If this marriage is a sham and you're already cheating with another woman, it is better to leave while they might have a modicum of respect for you rather than waiting until they find out on their own you are cheating, then they will blame you and the other woman for the divorce and your children will hate her and you.

 

Judges look very unkindly on men who dump their wives when they are middle aged and could well grant her alimony for life (i've seen it happen many times) if you dump her for another woman when your wife is middleaged.

 

If you fully intend to leave, it is better to do it sooner rather than later, and do it honorably by leaving and NOT staying involved with another woman until you are genuinely divorced and available again. Many men cast their wives as villains the moment they meet another woman who entralls them, but frankly, it is probably the other woman that makes you suddenly discontented with your wife, as in you were having sex with her, then you get attracted to someone else, and boom, you drop your wife and switch to having sex with another woman. So your wife was indeed 'good enough' until you met someone you liked better, and history rewrites itself.

 

Affairs have an artificial high romance quality to them, and you might discover once you are free and can see the other woman all the time, she is not nearly so magical as she was when she was forbidden fruit.

 

You do not want to teach your children that it is OK to lie and cheat, and basically use your wife for another 10 years because you don't want to pay child support and not see your kids as much. You are really throwing your wife on the barbeque here and sacrificing her in order to get what you want and so you don't have to feel guilty about the kids or reduce your assets. That's very questionable morally speaking. Doesn't matter what your wife's problems are, if you know you're going to leave her and you are lying and cheating to see another woman, then you need to man up and face the consequences of your behavior and desire to leave and do so honorably.

 

You're better to be honorable and free your wife when she is younger to find someone new, or else agree to really commit to the marriage and get marriage counseling and stay with it.

[Fudgie]

I think you should leave BECAUSE of the children.

You're cheating and you've been happy for a very long time.

 

Please, children aren't stupid. They know what's up. They know it when something is wrong with the relationship and this adds a lot of stress to their lives and makes them feel bad. They may get a bad idea of what marriage is about. Also, you're cheating and if you think that they won't ever know, think again. They are young now but when kids get older (mid teens and up) they know what is going on. They can read people and they can see the warning signs. It's likely that they will know that you are having an affair.

 

Do you really want to teach your children that it's okay to be deceitful and stay in a failed marriage that's a sham? That's one of the worst things you can do. Please be honest and leave.

[Lester]

Hi Bob, You said, "The one thing I did wonder was whether anyone had left their long term partner and kids and afterwards actually wished they'd stayed?" Oh Yeah! I'd say almost all. Many try to change the nature order but find the grass just isn’t greener.

 

You will not like your divorce. It will hurt you and your kids in ways you cannot imagine...for the rest of your life. You will look back on your old problems with envy. (You’re going love listening to your kids call some scumbag Dad. Yep she can find men a lot quicker then you can find women.)

 

Another thrill will be finding out that your new girl is developing interestingly similar issues to your ex-wife. (Could her drinking simply be a way of coping with you?)

 

I suggest reading, counseling and forums. Go to the gates of hell to save your marriage. Why? Your divorce is going to feel like hell anyway and last a really long time.

[redswim30]

Lester, I respectfully disagree. I don't think "almost all" people regret their divorce. I know I certainly don't- it was the best decision I ever made. He is already hurting his wife and kids by staying in this marriage. Divorce effects everyone differently, I find it unfair to say that you know how he, his wife and kids will feel in the long run. Is divorce hell ? It can be, but I can also tell you from deeply personal experience- it is NOTHING compared to the hell of knowing you are married to someone who doesn't love you back and is having an affair. or staying married to you for financial reasons. Or the hell of having your parents " put on phony masks" in front of you to try to disguise their deep unhappiness. Divorce isnt always an abyss. Many times people come out of them happier, including the ex spouse and children. I don't believe staying married is the best choice for everyone. Divorce does hurt, I agree, but sometimes staying in a deeply unhappy situation hurts more. And sometimes this can leave worse, deeper, and more lasting scars on children than beginning anew. Just my two.

[Fudgie]

redswim,

 

I agree with you. I think Lester is not correct in saying that "most people" regret their divorces. Actually, I can't think of ONE person who regrets their divorce. It seems like it is the right thing for the vast majority of the cases.

 

I think it's imperative to work quickly to come up with a custody agreement and learn how to be civil (and NEVER EVER EVER brainwash the children against one parent. That's beyond cruel) for those special events in the child's life when you'll both be there. But all of this can be done and can lead to everyone being a lot happier. It's a LOT better than staying in a sham marriage, and having the children growing up knowing that the relationship is a sham and that dad cheats and it's seen as "normal" because that's all they know.

 

I have a few friends whose parents divorced and they tell me they are better off for it. No more fighting, no more cheating, etc. They see each parent separately and have them in their lives. And no, they don't all end up in screwed up relationships either. They better understand the value of a good relationship and work towards it.

[Lester]

Dear Red and Fudgie,

I avoided my divorce and am, seeming, surrounded by divorced persons with regrets. I’m sure there are plenty of persons out there without regrets. I agree with you and respectfully retract my sweeping opinion.

[Fudgie]

Lester,

 

It takes all types. It may depend where you are. I'm sure there are those with and without regrets. If avoiding divorce was the best thing for you and your marriage and thats what you did, then I am happy for you.

[teabee]

Also my wife is very emotional and not a strong person. She would struggle on her own. This is one of the things that makes me want to leave, she is so helpless at lots of things, no matter what kind of help I try to give her.

 

 

This is an excerpt that I typed up for a friend awhile ago. I don't know if you'll get anything from it, but I was reminded of it so I'll copy and paste it to you. It's from a book called "His Needs Her Needs""

 

The husband who lies to "protect" his wife is often guilty of the worst sort of chauvinism. I have counseled many men over the years who believed their wives would fall apart if they told them the truth. This kind of man views his wife as an emotional basket case, incapable of coping with reality. Many men tend to make this assumption about women in general, sometimes because it feeds their own sense of superiority.

When a man lies to protect his wife he may also be saying she has little control over her habits and cannot readily changer her behavior. This kind of thinking reflects a low opinion of the character of women--another common attitude among men.

 

Granted, some women reinforce these false assumptions because it serves their own purposes. They reason, If I can get what I want out of Harry by looking like a helpless idiot now and then, why not?

 

The "why not?" is easily answered. Whenever a woman uses helplessness or other manipulative behavior, she does not build her Love Bank account with her husband; slowly but steadily she empties it. Her behavior may feed her husband's false stereotype about "helpless women," but it cannot build his respect for her.

Subtly--or not subtly-- treating your wife as though she were emotionally unstable becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is a great way to drive her a little bit crazy.

 

But when a husband tells his wife the truth, he builds her emotional stability. By always being truthful he tells her he knows she can handle it and can change what she must. The truth demolishes false impressions and illusions. Life becomes more predictable and rational because now she can understand her husband's behavior. The truth may be painful at times (and he should strive to deal gently with the truth), but truth does not drive a woman crazy. On the contrary, a woman feels in control, because now she knows what she needs to do to change the situation.

 

A husband does his wife no favors when he tells her "protective" lies to make her feel secure and loved. Eventually exactly the opposite happens. A husband must present himself to his wife as he is. Then she can adjust, negotiate, and draw closer to him.

 

I have heard way too much, "She's not very strong!"

Yes she is.

[BobUK]

This is just a quick response to say thank you all so much for your views on this. It really is so helpful to get different opinions, based on experience. I didn't think that there would be a range of persuasive views to think about. I will consider further. Thank you again.

[luminousone]

Bob, I am going to write to you from the wife's perspective.

 

I was the wife whose husband was so unhappy. He blamed his unhappiness on me. And so, after 21 years together he had some emotional online affairs with some women. He didn't start out that way, and in fact he was a faithful husband all those years. He was just seeking friendship and approval from others online. Eventually his friendships crossed the line and he strayed out of our marriage.

 

In the end he came to me and outright told me he wanted a divorce. I believe those thoughts had been brewing for years within him - and although I felt something was amiss (and expressed it to him) I was completely blind-sided when I walked into a room and he told me he wanted a divorce!

 

Oh, how I had wished he had shared this with me some years earlier, when something could have been done about it! We did go to counseling briefly, but he had already made up his mind and was halfway out the door.

 

Many marriages do go through these trials after time and with the hustle and bustle of a life with kids. Some survive, through shear tenacity and perhaps the foresight of the spouses that it is a stage that marriages go through.

 

The key here is commitment, communication, compromise, understanding, and empathy. Oh, and of course love and tenderness!

 

Ultimately my husband moved out, had relationships, and when he was dumped then he decided he should move back in "for the sake of the children".

 

I said I would love to have him move in, if he wanted to work on our marriage and if I heard the words that he loved me and wanted to be married to me - and then go to counseling to work things through. I realized that in my husband's unhappiness he had slowly developed seething resentment and dislike of me and therefore treated me with disrespect. I no longer wished to live in such a sad and degrading situation. I felt that he would likely stray further beyond our marriage, and that he would move out again at the very least after the kids were gone.

 

One of the things for you to think about - you have children and you have a responsibility to be a great role model for them. What do you wish for your children to learn about marriage and relationships? Because what they see is what they will likely practice as a norm for when they are in their own marriages.

 

Today happens to be my parents' 61st anniversary and they took 20 minutes each day to talk and have a glass of wine, they had candle light dinners each night, they kissed and hugged, they are thoughtful spouses. And yes, they fought too - and worked things out and compromised in front of their kids! (Kids need to see those times too, so that they can learn the healthy skills of working things out).

 

In the end, we did decide to divorce, and we are now working through the legal aspects.

 

We chose to share custody of our kids - 2 boys - who are old enough that it was okay for them to be away from me half the time. I would not suggest that for toddlers (especially those that are still nursing). It is difficult for me to be away from my kids every other week, but they also need their dad and what he has to offer them as a male role model.

 

It takes a tremendous amount of resolve to do that with no animosity and much cooperation! I have to keep my negative feelings to myself around them. We do try to be on the same page with our parenting, and we often attend parent/teacher conferences and doctor appointments for them together. We did attend divorce counseling that helped in that aspect.

 

In the end I think my sons are a bit better adjusted, because the animosity and underlying anger and resentment are not there. I am hoping someday that my sons will be able to observe me in a healthier and more loving relationship. But in the meantime they have observed me setting healthier boundaries and standing up for myself for the first time in 21 years!

 

However - I do grieve the loss of our family as a unit. Divorce/separation really changed things for us - we no longer do those traditional family things, like the family vacations we used to do together, and holiday celebrations, etc. The kids and my In-laws and extended family have all felt that loss!!!!

 

I also grieve that my kids lose out on things when they are going back and forth between households. While they have adjusted well, it still has changed their lives in many ways. They miss out on things when they are not with me or their dad, and they have been shouldered with keeping track of their things/medication/schoolwork/computer files between the households.

 

I was devastated for 3 years after my ex moved out. But would I want him to move back now? NO!!!!! With some time and grieving behind me, I am better able to see the dysfunction in our marriage and the toxic effects it had on me. So I am done now.

 

Would my ex have wanted to move back? I think he really did want to, but pride and a lack of awareness in his responsibility in the whole thing prevented him from taking that plunge. We will never know.

 

In the end I hope that you realize that your wife is not in charge of your happiness - the key to that is deep within you. Leaving your marriage will probably bring you some short term relief and fun, but ultimately any issues you have will re-surface and you will have to deal with them.

 

I don't know whether you will stay or leave, but if you stay then please do treat your wife with kindness, love, honesty, tenderness, commitment, communication, etc. You deserve it, your wife deserves it, and your kids deserve it too!

 

Oh, and each and every day you should express some gratitude to your wife for who she is and what she does. Even if it is the littlest things! It creates a positive environment of gratitude and appreciation which you, your kids, and your wife can live in! Instead of focusing on negative stuff and blaming her for your unhappiness, then really give her some appreciation!

 

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide

[luminousone]

Hi again Bob,

 

After re-reading your post I had missed that little part where your wife is an alcoholic.

 

She also will have to make up her mind to live healthy and happy, and you can't do that for her.

 

Hopefully, if you do leave your marriage, then please make sure that she will continue to provide a safe environment for your kids. The focus for you right now should be on the well being of your kids.

[redswim30]

Lester,

 

It takes all types. It may depend where you are. I'm sure there are those with and without regrets. If avoiding divorce was the best thing for you and your marriage and thats what you did, then I am happy for you.

 

Agreed. I am all for people avoiding divorce if they can. I just don't think everybody can. And it's not always in the best interests of people if someone's foot is already firmly out the door.

[BobUK]

Again, this is really something for me to think about. I think you're absolutely right luminousone that had I mentioned some of my discontent earlier then we could have perhaps worked on things. My attempts were half hearted and certainly did not convey the depth of my unhappiness. But I'm not sure now whether we have reached that point where I am so disengaged that I just don't want to try anymore. Blame is pointless but if we are to point the finger I'd say there is blame on both sides: me for not being more assertive/wanting an easy life; my wife for being intolerant and selfish.

 

I can see a lot of what you say about your husband in me, and understand some of it is not pretty. The point you make about role modelling for your kids and working things out in front of them is a new one and I can see a lot of sense in it.

 

You seem to see things clearly now, like the dysfunction in your marriage and the effect it had on you. I wonder whether there are aspects like that in my wife's life. I'm pretty sure the drinking doesn't stem from our relationship - she has health issues which she is convinced are fixed with alcohol. I cannot convince her otherwise. But perhaps there are other issues, for example around teabee's post. I say she would find it difficult to stand on her own but perhaps that's because she never has had to and so without me she would find that strength, because she would have to. Although her mother and her sister (also alcoholics) have both for a number of years led chaotic rollercoasters of lives since they broke up with long term partners.

 

I do give her appreciation and thank her for lots of little things she does. There are lots of good things about her!

 

Thank you for taking the time to give me your perspective and for your kind wishes.

[BobUK]

Redswim, your perspective as a child is thought provoking. I like to think my children are very intelligent and so might hope that they see things similarly, i.e. us divorcing is better for us and them than us continuing to be unhappy. But need to do that in a way which avoids demonising each other. Also I wouldn't want my kids to feel guilty for something I've done.

 

Fair point about staying for love not because I think she needs me. Yes it does feel like a business arrangement in some ways. At the moment I'm disengaging more and more and I agree that's not fair when I'm not saying why. Thanks again for your thoughts.

[BobUK]

Lavenderdove, thank you for your thoughts. A number of our friends are splitting up now and I can see that doing it now will be easier for my wife to move on than in 10 years. There will still be lots of social situations around the kids etc. which will be not as easy in 10 years. Also of course you're all right that if something isn't working the time to act is now.

As to respect for me - in my own mind I know I was unhappy before I met another woman. I think I was just numb to it all though and couldn't see any other way. Now I have actually spoken to someone (had never told anyone I was unhappy before) I can see that I don't have to put up with the unhappiness and way I feel I've been treated by my wife. So it was this that led me to think about moving out, not the fact I'd prefer to be with someone else. But I can fully understand others won't see it like that, including my wife and kids. That would be awful too because this other woman has only ever tried to encourage me to be honest with my wife about how I feel, and been very supportive, she's certainly not been a negative force.

 

Alimony isn't an issue for me. The issue would be that I would want the kids to live between our two houses and we just couldn't afford to have two reasonable houses. I don't need money for myself, that's the least of my worries (not because I'm rich! just because it's not important compared to all this).

 

Thank you again.

[chitown9]

Bob, I have been following your thread and at this point would like to jump in. I am an adult child of this type of marriage. My mother was depressed throughout her entire life and with depression comes a great deal of anxiety. She was extremely anxious and it made it difficult for everyone in our family which was myself, my brother, and my father I know that my father considered leaving several times. Once my brother and I were out of the house and had gone on with our lives I thought my dad would leave my mom, but he just never did. They were together until the day he died. I came to understand that in spite of her bizarre behavior my dad truly loved my mom. Somehow he was able to deal with what being with her meant. One of the last things my dad said to me when his death was immenient was: "please take care of your mom."

 

My mother, however, did not have a substance abuse problem. Your wife is an alcoholic, Bob. I think that you and your wife would benefit greatly from marriage counseling. Detox for you wife would be suggested in the process, I am sure. If you divorce, it would be in the best interest of the children to be in your custody due to acholism on your wife's part. I sure that a judge would award the children to you, and even if you did not receive full custody of the children intially, it would end up that way eventually. I realize this woman that you have befriended is not the cause of your wanting to leave. It is more of a pleasant escape for you; however, when you enter couple counseling she will have to be out of the picture. What I want to convey to you, Bob, is please don't give up the ship until you have exhausted all available avenues. Please come back to this site and let us know how you are doing...you will find many caring people here...

[top bloke]

Bob..if your mind is made up then why live a lie? You are delaying the inevitable ? You are shortchanging yourself first. Leave and let her and you have an honest life too instead of you being there for your reasons. Trust me..life goes on. If you can save your marriage then talk to your wifey..if not get the courage and leave ..

[BobUK]

in spite of her bizarre behavior my dad truly loved my mom. Somehow he was able to deal with what being with her meant

 

Thanks Chi. It's amazing that your parents found love like that, I hope I do. To be able to put up with a lot and still feel love towards the person. That's got to be real love. I just don't feel that way though. I look at all the negative things in our relationship and deeply want to rid myself of them while thinking that I could manage without the positive things. I can understand the point you've made Chi, and others have too, that no one should give up until they have exhausted all other options. I'm finding it difficult though to want to save things.

 

What this thread has done for me is convince me that I absolutely need to start talking about this with my wife and to either start working towards leaving, or working towards something else. Carrying on isn't doing me any favours but I can see now that it isn't doing my wife any favours either. Thanks everyone. This is a great site.

[chitown9]

 

What this thread has done for me is convince me that I absolutely need to start talking about this with my wife and to either start working towards leaving, or working towards something else. Carrying on isn't doing me any favours but I can see now that it isn't doing my wife any favours either. Thanks everyone. This is a great site.

 

I am pleased that you derived some insight into your situation from this site. You are more than welcome for our assistance, and yes, it is a great sight....please keep coming back............

[top bloke]

Good on you Bob.Im happy to hear you have realised what is the right thing not only for her but you too. Its always best to have love with your wife first..she is the woman you had kids with and setup your life..it can be worth it but you have to decide...