Life On The Rocinante' (After Dark!)

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, mylolita said:

With regards to someone who suffers from mental health issues taking advice from someone else who also suffers from mental health issues - my problem with this is it can be like the blind leading the blind. 
 

The good intention is there but the practicality is not, in my opinion. 
 

Personally, as someone who suffers from low mood and high swings myself, I find comfort in hearing that I’m not alone; but I’d rather turn to someone who doesn’t experience any of this and work out what separates them from me. I’d want someone who is successful in this area to give me tips. They are obviously doing something I’m not.

 

Pointing out depression to a depressed person is also asking for trouble. They won’t want to hear it for the most part, because people don’t want to acknowledge their faults and trials, tribulations. 
 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. 
 

x

I was going to add this. Even when it’s asked for people with those sorts of mental health struggles don’t want to hear it. This is why a good therapist often can get through. 

[Cynder]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

No I didn’t.  I wrote perhaps. Or maybe. That’s not an assumption. Typically when people describe that situation it’s also added in that the person asked. It’s hard for depressed people to ask. Again you’ve ignored my other input. You’re assuming I’m being negative. But that’s inaccurate. 

What you said verbatim: "Maybe the depressed person didn’t like being given unsolicited advice about how to deal with depression ?"

The maybe in that sentence is applied to them and their reaction, not to me and my advice. 

[Cynder]

18 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Yes, and challenge the 'why' to allowing them back in.

You've done such a superb job of nixing toxic people from your life. Your posts have reflected the enhanced focus on your own creative endeavors because of this--on top of finding new social arenas where people are encouraging and inspiring. So why reconnect with anyone who projects their own negativity onto you this way?

Based on years of you writing your frank accounts and willingness to question your own positions and attitudes, I'd call you a lot of wonderful things, including resilient. A victim mentality doesn't fit with that at all. You've recounted plenty of mistreatment with the skills of an objective journalist--and you've been willing to challenge yourself on your own perceptions, continually.

I'd thank the person for their input, even while I'd avoid dealing with them going forward. You don't need to burn a bridge in order to respect your own boundaries. I can appreciate not wanting to add this person to an 'enemy' list, but there's zero need to cater to anyone who doesn't contribute light to your life.

Head high, honey. Stay true to your Self.

Yep, people rarely change.  They weren't part of the mass exodus of 2021.  This person never actually wronged me.  I just distanced myself from them because they always were involved in drama somewhere, and they love being miserable.  It's someone I know from the festival scene, so it's not like I see them every day.  I was really surprised when they started messaging me again.  But I've also learned that toxic people cycle through friends.  They will not talk to someone for a while and then suddenly bring that person back into the fold when they lose someone else.  I saw L do this when she lived with me. 

I question myself because there are a lot of things I figured out way too late in life.  Like, I was in my 20s when I realized violence isn't normal.  It took me a really long time to figure out what self awareness actually is.  I'd heard the phrase lots of times but I didn't actually understand what it meant until well into adulthood.  So I questioned what a victim mentality actually is after this conversation. I try to own my role in every situation, even if I am the bad guy in it.  Everyone is evil in someone's story. 

Since I've been hanging out with my sister more lately I started realizing that I'm not the only one who feels certain things about our upbringing.  My sister has brought up to me how my parents just saw the bad in everyone and how they both enjoyed being miserable all the time.  And that really surprised me coming from her because she was the golden child.  I don't think she saw it as much when we were kids, but as an adult she is seeing what I saw decades ago.  One good thing about being the scapegoat is they usually wake up and see the BS a lot sooner than everyone else. 

I actually talked to D about this, too.  I knew he would be honest with me.  Him and my other friend Elijah, they are who I go to when I need tough love or brutal honesty.  Neither of them think I act like a victim and sit around wallowing in self pity.  I wish I didn't let this conversation get to me.  I can't pick what I ruminate on.  I need to cut myself some slack here and remember I do have OCD, and people with OCD ruminate on things.  The person who said it defined choosing to be single instead of dating someone as being a victim, etc.  That doesn't even make sense.  So, I will continue keeping my distance from them. 

Anyway, I need to get ready to go do some video editing and then hang out with my ice cream buddy. 

Thanks for replying. 

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

What you said verbatim: "Maybe the depressed person didn’t like being given unsolicited advice about how to deal with depression ?"

The maybe in that sentence is applied to them and their reaction, not to me and my advice. 

No that is not how I meant it- I never assume about typed words if I am unsure but that's just me. And as I explained I am accustomed to someone writing "she asked me what to do, so I said" - I give the benefit of the doubt to typed words from strangers on the internet especially when it's so nuanced.  Thanks for sharing how you read it.

I see how you read the maybe - and I am sorry I was unclear - I am sorry your family made assumptions -I read the way you shared the information a certain way and I meant it as maybe for the entire scenario.

I liked how Lolita analyzed it.  I agree.

I agree with Catfeeder that it's good you're cleaning house and I'm sorry you let very few people who labeled you with victim mentality get to you to the extent it did.

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Cynder said:

I wish I didn't let this conversation get to me.  I can't pick what I ruminate on.  I need to cut myself some slack here and remember I do have OCD, and people with OCD ruminate on things. 

I hear, and I hope it's some comfort that, OCD or not, most people tend to ruminate to some degree after they've been stunned by getting socked in the face with something said to them that's so rude and accusatory and downright anti-social. Yes, such a thing speaks entirely about the one saying it, but I used the word 'stunned' for a reason--because no reasonable person would ever say such a thing, to anyone.

You were raised to be tolerant of this kind of abusive comment, and that's unfortunate on so many levels. But the one fortunate thing is that your intelligence over-rode the conditioning, at very least to the degree that you are resilient. But since your healing from the Z breakup, you've grown more into a take-no-$hyt kind of customer, but that doesn't mean you won't encounter some moments. And this one would have anybody reeling, if not from questioning where that statement came from, then from wondering, "Did that really happen?"

Point is, you're in good company, because I think that this is less about OCD, and more about W T F?

Quote

The person who said it defined choosing to be single instead of dating someone as being a victim, etc.  That doesn't even make sense.  So, I will continue keeping my distance from them. 

That's exactly right. Sure, there are those who believe that enjoying a partner-free life must somehow be a choice based on trauma, simply because they, themselves, could never own the backbone to consider such a thing in a positive light. So this person decided to link that with self pity, which IS ridiculous. But even that is only a step away from blaming someone else for their own ignorance and discomfort.

You're right, skip that. You have friends, you have multiple talents, and you have a focused discipline to incorporate your creativity into your daily life. Few would ever be able to keep up with you, and that alone can intimidate some people into turning hostile. It might be helpful to remind yourself of that whenever you see the worst in people coming out on you. You're not a magnet for this stuff, you're a mirror. And that scares the bejesus out of some people. Have you noticed? 🙂 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

ure, there are those who believe that enjoying a partner-free life must somehow be a choice based on trauma, simply because they, themselves, could never own the backbone to consider such a thing in a positive light.

Depending on what the person chooses to share with me as to why they don't have a partner I often see it as a choice based on inner strength and confidence similar to the decision not to be a mother.

[Cynder]

19 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I hear, and I hope it's some comfort that, OCD or not, most people tend to ruminate to some degree after they've been stunned by getting socked in the face with something said to them that's so rude and accusatory and downright anti-social. Yes, such a thing speaks entirely about the one saying it, but I used the word 'stunned' for a reason--because no reasonable person would ever say such a thing, to anyone.

You were raised to be tolerant of this kind of abusive comment, and that's unfortunate on so many levels. But the one fortunate thing is that your intelligence over-rode the conditioning, at very least to the degree that you are resilient. But since your healing from the Z breakup, you've grown more into a take-no-$hyt kind of customer, but that doesn't mean you won't encounter some moments. And this one would have anybody reeling, if not from questioning where that statement came from, then from wondering, "Did that really happen?"

Point is, you're in good company, because I think that this is less about OCD, and more about W T F?

That's exactly right. Sure, there are those who believe that enjoying a partner-free life must somehow be a choice based on trauma, simply because they, themselves, could never own the backbone to consider such a thing in a positive light. So this person decided to link that with self pity, which IS ridiculous. But even that is only a step away from blaming someone else for their own ignorance and discomfort.

You're right, skip that. You have friends, you have multiple talents, and you have a focused discipline to incorporate your creativity into your daily life. Few would ever be able to keep up with you, and that alone can intimidate some people into turning hostile. It might be helpful to remind yourself of that whenever you see the worst in people coming out on you. You're not a magnet for this stuff, you're a mirror. And that scares the bejesus out of some people. Have you noticed? 🙂 

True, I guess most people would react that way to someone saying something that uncalled for, especially out of nowhere like that. 

My intelligence is probably what saved my ass when I was younger.  My creativity helped, too, because I wrote to escape a lot.  I'm not saying I'm a genius, but even as a kid I was smart enough to know it wasn't my fault that I was conceived.  When my parents would start with the, "You ruined everything!" BS I was more hurt that they would be mean enough to say that then I was thinking it was true. 

I won't lie, though.  Trauma is part of why I choose to be single.  It's only a small part though because my last relationship didn't traumatize me.  After Z I was thinking I'll never be with anyone again because I will never let anyone get close enough to do that to me again.  But then D showed me I still have the ability to love and that all relationships aren't awful.  So now it's a lot less trauma based and more just healthy selfishness and realism.  I say healthy selfishness because I would rather put energy into my business and my creativity than into a relationship, and realism because my disability isn't going anywhere, and it has caused problems in every relationship I've ever been in except with D. I think some people are just better suited for the single life, and I think I'm in that category. 

This person is someone who is always in multiple relationships, and every relationship is dysfunctional af, People like them fit right into the negative stereotype of polyamory.  So they probably can't even imagine choosing to be single. 

A lot of people find doers intimidating because they see someone doing what they want and it reminds them they aren't doing what they want.  A mirror instead of a magnet, I like that a idea. 

Thank you again for your wisdom.  🙂

[Batya33]

20 minutes ago, Cynder said:

So now it's a lot less trauma based and more just healthy selfishness and realism.  I say healthy selfishness because I would rather put energy into my business and my creativity than into a relationship,

Doesn't sound selfish in the least.  Sounds smart, insightful, common sense analysis.

[Cynder]

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Depending on what the person chooses to share with me as to why they don't have a partner I often see it as a choice based on inner strength and confidence similar to the decision not to be a mother.

I've gone to Europe twice by myself.  I have no problem going out to dinner alone.  I love going to the movies alone.  I love my own company.  I decided I can treat myself better than most others can. 

Also, my disability has caused issues in every relationship except my last one.  D was the only person who didn't eventually start to get annoyed with it.  He is all about meeting people where they are and not where he wishes they were.  And my disability isn't going away.  Everyone says they would date a disabled person, until they actually date one.  And I live a pretty normal life.  I just can't drive.  But that becomes an issue with everyone.  Some of my exes were straightup a**holes about it.  There's been this idea of "Oh, you could drive if you wanted to, you're just lazy." And then they start resenting having to do all the driving, etc.  To me it's sad and it says a lot about our society that so much value is put on a license that is optional. 

My creativity and being a business owner is also something that has caused problems in all my relationships except for the last one.  And that's another thing that's not going away.  So to me, it's just better to not bring anyone into the fold when they can't handle these things.  Because these are things that aren't changing. 

But it's interesting you mentioned being a parent, also.  I know that didn't pertain to me specifically.  But those are also reasons why I never had kids.  Because of my disability, I would be a less than desirable parent.  And parenthood takes time and it's expensive.  I would rather spend my time and money on creative pursuits.  And I will admit that OCD has stopped me from being a parent as well.  I know I would have intrusive thoughts about my kids dying all the time, etc.  And mentally I know I can't handle that.  It would eat me alive.  I've heard stories from adult children of OCD parents and their childhoods were hell.  I like to think I am self aware enough to not impose my obsessions on other people.  But I don't know how that would work if I was a parent.  And OCD is an awful disorder, I would feel terrible if I passed it on to one of my kids, etc.  I don't even know if it can be passed on genetically.  I know some mental illnesses can, though.  And on top of that, alcoholism runs on both sides of my family.  I'm not an alcoholic but I don't know if it can skip a generation.  Both my parents were but I also have several aunts and uncles who are too and two grandparents. 

Anyway, I need to get ready for work and hopefully do some writing before I leave. 

 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Cynder said:

To me it's sad and it says a lot about our society that so much value is put on a license that is optional. 

It depends where you grow up -where I grew up there wasn't much value to having a drivers license -for a number of reasons.

[Cynder]

So, as much as I hate this, I think it might be time to think about firing my editor.  Not because he's a bad editor.  He's just way too slow.  I posted about on a writing community last night.  This isn't the critique group I've been a part of for years, because they don't allow these kinds of posts.  But there are both authors and editors there who told me taking 6 weeks to edit a chapter is ridiculous. 

I was at work all night and not replying to the thread or really checking Reddit.  But this morning when I got home I had a few messages from editors basically offering to take me as a client, giving prices, CVs, etc.  But, I have to be careful there, too.  The writing community online is very predatory at times.  Anyone can call themself an editor.  I could tell someone I'm an editor and then ghost them once I get their money.  Not saying I would do that, but it's easy to do and people get scammed all the time.  Not just editors but people call themselves agents, coaches, etc.  Anyone can call themselves these things.  And a thread like that is going to attract attention from shady people.  "Oh, this chick is thinking of firing her editor, I bet I can take her money!" 

But, I won't dismiss everyone who contacted me as a con artist.  I won't give anyone any money until I know they are the real deal, though. 

And speaking of editing....  D's sister just had a book drop on Amazon.  Amazon lets you read the first few pages, etc.  I was curious, I skimmed them.  And in 5 minutes of just skimming, I found a dozen or so mistakes.  She needs to find an editor, too, lol.  And these weren't obscure things that I just nitpicked, either.  I saw some straight up grammatical errors, sentences without periods, etc.  And she can't punctuate dialogue.  I mean, these are things we all learned in English class in like 4rth grade...  I mean, she has multiple sentences with, "Me and Sam..."  "Me and Sam walk our dogs together." Etc.  "When me and Sam left school today..." And from an artists perspective... her cover art is abysmal.  It looks like someone was playing around with Photoshop for the first time and slapping all the filters on some stock images. 

I know some people are reading this thinking I make plenty of mistakes here, too.  And you're 100% right.  I do.  But this is a journal.  I don't always have time to proofread everything I write here.  It's not something I'm selling.  If I'm expecting people to pay money for my writing, better believe it's going to be mistake free. 

People like her are the reason self published authors aren't taken seriously by some.  And it doesn't help that she brags all the time about how amazing she is.  And she tells everyone her ex husband was on the Amazon best seller list in (I think) 2018.  He wasn't.  I checked.  She tells lies that can easily be called out.  Like... if you're going to lie at least be a good liar, lol.  I don't lie on the regular.  But if I was going to lie, I would at least make it a believable lie and not something that can be exposed by a google search, lol. 

Anyway, I won't even consider firing W until I have another editor secured.  And that will take some time.  And I want to at least talk to him first and see if there's something we can do to fix the problem first.  It wouldn't be fair to just fire him without giving him a chance to make it right. He is a very good editor and he's worked with a lot of well known authors.  I feel like I'm really privileged to having him in my corner and working with him could open some doors.  He has connections to agents, etc.  He knows a lot about the industry.  So, I need to consider what I'm giving up, too, if I did fire him.  

On his end, he has established authors waiting on him to finish their manuscripts, and I'm the up and comer.  So he probably knows he has the power here.  Idk... one of these people who contacted me on Reddit might have a more impressive resume' than him.  Who knows. 

Anyway, now I'm going to go bust out a few paragraphs on the new book (AM) before I go to sleep.

 

[Cynder]

LAC this weekend...  CPPD in roughly 8 weeks.  I feel like I am dropping the ball.  Actually dropping the ball is an understatement. I feel like I'm not even on the court but hiding in the locker room playing on my phone.  

I really want to paint something before CPPD.  I feel like I owe it to myself and all the people who come to that show to see me.  I just can't get my head in the game.  When I have free time, I write. 

For a long time it was, "Jeez, I really need to finish Needles.  Then I'll paint."  Then, "I'm getting so burned out on Needles.  I really need to be done already."  Then, "Omg, I finished Needles!  Now It's time to paint."  Then, "Wow, I got some new paintings sketched out.  I'll work on those after I finish brainstorming this new idea for my next book (AM.)"  And then, "Wow, I'm getting so into writing AM.  It's so nice to be working on something other than Needles!"  And now...  "Ok, I really need to get these final revisions done on Needles."  What am I gonna do when I wake up later... work on final revisions for Needles.  Needles just isn't going to die until I kill it, lol. 

The first chapters I wrote for it were written in 2021 when I was suicidal.  So, those chapters have been revised a lot.  So, I finished the first draft in December of 2023. Then I finished the first set of revisions in May.  But now I look back at some of those earlier chapters and think, "Good effing Gods what was I thinking?  How the hell did I ever think this was good!?" So, I'm rewriting a lot of those earlier chapters now.  And it's so worth it because I've completely overhauled three chapters and they are leaps and bounds better than I what I had before.  What happens in them is still the same. I'm not changing the plot. I am just adding depth, characterization, sensory input, etc. 

I need to be careful though, because it's really easy to fall into the trap of perfectionism when writing.  I feel like with painting I can only take it so far before I ruin the painting.  You can only layer colors on top of each other for so long until it just looks muddy and overworked. Ink is my other main medium.  And with Ink there's a very definite stopping point. 

With writing, though, revisions can go on forever if you let them.  I've talked about this in person with other writers at open mic night.  It's so easy to get sucked into this endless loop.  At some point I just need to call it.  I have a few chapters now that are done, as in, done to the point where I won't touch them again unless some typo is discovered or something.  I proofread them all pretty well. That doesn't mean much though, considering traditionally published books make it to final print with typos in them occasionally.  I'm not perfect.  I remember a book I read when I was a teenager had a character with the last name Blackwood.  And a few times in the book it became Blackside.  That isn't even a typo.  That's a case of someone not using the right name multiple times.  But still, mistakes make it to print.  Not saying it's a good thing or that they should  I'm just saying considering all the times a book is gone over before it's printed, it amazes me what gets through.  Maybe it's because I was a quality inspector for a decade, idk.  I just think, how the hell could they miss that?  But the point is, if that happens, I can't expect my proofreading to be 100% perfect either. I'm dead tired, so I'm sure there are mistakes here in this post, lol.  

 

[Cynder]

So, LAC was hands down the worst event I've ever done.  Ten years on the festival circuit and I've never had an event tank to hard.  I don't pack up and leave early very often.  But I did yesterday.  The weather had a lot to do with it, it was in the lower 90s.  But around 1PM when it's been about 3 hours since I've ever had a customer, I threw in the towel.  My time is more important to me than sitting in the sweltering heat and not selling anything. 

The very first customer I had yesterday (And I'm using the word customer loosely here because she didn't actually buy anything.) she walked into the booth and the first thing she says is, "So did you actually draw this stuff?" 

I said, "Yeah, I did." 

And then she's like, "Well there's apps where you can take a photo and then make it look like someone drew it, so that's why I asked." 

Then she starts flipping through my prints and asks how much they are (despite the three signs in the booth saying how much they are.) And I told her they are $15 or two for $25.  And she's like, "So you actually drew these and that's all your charging? It seems like original work should be more." 

I told her those aren't originals, they're prints. 

And then she's like, "But you just sat there and told me you drew them."

I told her I did, but what she's looking at right now aren't the originals.  But she just couldn't understand that. 

Then the next person who came into my booth starts snapping pictures left and right.  I asked her not to do that and she just rolled her eyes and kept on taking pics. 

I've learned to not be as threatened by that because most of the time those pictures never even leave the person's phone.  I found some of my work on Redbubble once.  And the person who posted it hadn't sold anything.  The truth is, most people aren't going to bother doing anything with it. 

And then when I do say something I usually end up looking like the bad guy.  I've had so many people cop an attitude with me just for asking them not to take pictures.  Like Hello, you're the one in the wrong here. 

I just wish people would be more mindful.  I don't charge a lot for prints.  It's not as much about money as it is about straight up disrespect. 

Anyway, I have to go take a shower and get ready to go hang out with my siblings. 

 

[Batya33]

I limit my "browsing" in small shops or at a festival unless I genuinely intend to buy.  If I don't intend to buy but appreciate the art I don't engage the vendor if she or he is busy with anything - with arranging her work, with another customer, whatever. I do not want to waste time.  At times I've said briefly "I love your designs." and will say something specific then move on.  I teach my child that as well and he's good about it.  I treat artwork same as if it is displayed in a museum -again, unless I specifically want to buy and therefore need a closer look/to touch.  

I always feel sorry for vendors in bad weather.  We also were in the 90s yesterday and had a huge festival in the park. We walked through it but -wow -sweltering.

[Cynder]

On 6/23/2024 at 2:52 PM, Batya33 said:

I limit my "browsing" in small shops or at a festival unless I genuinely intend to buy.  If I don't intend to buy but appreciate the art I don't engage the vendor if she or he is busy with anything - with arranging her work, with another customer, whatever. I do not want to waste time.  At times I've said briefly "I love your designs." and will say something specific then move on.  I teach my child that as well and he's good about it.  I treat artwork same as if it is displayed in a museum -again, unless I specifically want to buy and therefore need a closer look/to touch.  

I always feel sorry for vendors in bad weather.  We also were in the 90s yesterday and had a huge festival in the park. We walked through it but -wow -sweltering.

I really hope the questions I've been getting this season aren't going to be the new norm.  I've already gotten, "Is this AI art?" a few times this season.  Now it's "Well, there's app that can make anything look like a drawing."  It's like people are just expecting mediocrity from everyone.  Oh there's no way anyone really drew that!  It's made with an app.  Etc.  It already upsets me enough that most people assume whoever else is in the booth with me is the artist. 

It is interesting, though, that when D was at shows with me, no one ever assumed he was the artist.  That's so odd to me, considering he's the only person who has helped me at shows that has a lot of artistic talent, and was just as adept as an artist as I am.  I have noticed though, that people always assume the more attractive person is the artist.  So, maybe people think I am just slightly more attractive than him, idk.  I am in no way saying he's ugly.  But he is not someone a lot of people would be lining up to date.  He has face tattoos, for one.  That's a deal breaker for most of our society. He's also only 5'2''.  Short guys are considered less than desirable by most people. These aren't my opinions.  In my eyes, D is absolutely adorable and I love the way he looks. I'm just commenting on the way society views certain traits.  Our society is shallow and superficial.  And most people wouldn't think a short dude with face tattoos is attractive.  So, when people approached my booth and it was him and I, they were probably thinking, Well, the artist is either this little strange looking dude with face tattoos or the tattooed, green haired butterface with messed up eyes.  It's probably butterface.  I realize not this much conscious thought probably goes into it.  People just take one look and make snap judgments.  But there's subconscious thinking behind those snap judgments. 

The one show that Z was at with me, she walked around most of the day, which is fine, she was there as my guest not as my helper.  But when she would come to the booth to rest, she would just be sitting there in the back of the booth with her head down playing on her phone, and so many people were saying things to her like, "So how long does a painting take you to do?"  "So what type of paint do you use?" One guy was even like, "Oh, the artist is feeling shy today.  She's modest." 

But now, not only am I dealing with basically being told how ugly I am indirectly by people, but people also think I'm a fraud who is selling AI art or just filtering pics I took with an app.  I suppose the next time someone asks if it's AI art I can just let the full on sarcasm fly and be like, "Yes.  Yes it is.  I'm a robot.  I was programmed with state of the art technology. Most people can't even tell.  They think I'm a human being. Omg... you recognized me.  That must mean you're one of the robot overlords.  Don't worry, I won't tell." 

And if someone asks if I used an app again, I will be like, "Yes.  It's this really awesome app by Escoda.  It's called Paint Brush.  Oh I know, It's amazing!  Where can you download it?  Well, it doesn't go on your phone.  No, you have to go to the store and buy it.  Oh, and for some of my stuff I use this other app called Micron Pen.  That's another one you can't download.  You have to go and buy them at the store.  Posca Marker is another good app." 

Anyway, need to go feed my snake, then feed myself.  Then take a shower and get ready for work. 

[itsallgrand]

I'm sorry your show was a bust. My friend who paints for a living has mentioned some of the same attitudes from people as you. We both hate A.I. though lol. I know you are more moderate towards it. I do think though there will be people who appreciate human art for a long time. People like me and my friend. The economy sucks now though! It's eating into so many small businesses. 

And I'm not trying to argue but I remember when you posted a picture here ages ago and you are pretty. Definitely not a slouch in looks, I'm being frank here. I don't think it's anything personal, people's ways, and my experiences lead me to believe it's just par for the course of any sales work. Some people are very predictable about it. It's why target demographics work, and it shocked me at first how often it does. It's to the point now that I have a good sense of what someone will say and want to hear before they even speak (related to my business). When I was pushing booze as a side job, I got good at knowing the flavours and brands they'd go for by looking at them and knowing how they want to be sold to. I'm sure you know what I mean. You can suss out those who are there not to buy pretty quick. Some live for giving sales people a hard time. 

[Cynder]

10 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

I'm sorry your show was a bust. My friend who paints for a living has mentioned some of the same attitudes from people as you. We both hate A.I. though lol. I know you are more moderate towards it. I do think though there will be people who appreciate human art for a long time. People like me and my friend. The economy sucks now though! It's eating into so many small businesses. 

And I'm not trying to argue but I remember when you posted a picture here ages ago and you are pretty. Definitely not a slouch in looks, I'm being frank here. I don't think it's anything personal, people's ways, and my experiences lead me to believe it's just par for the course of any sales work. Some people are very predictable about it. It's why target demographics work, and it shocked me at first how often it does. It's to the point now that I have a good sense of what someone will say and want to hear before they even speak (related to my business). When I was pushing booze as a side job, I got good at knowing the flavours and brands they'd go for by looking at them and knowing how they want to be sold to. I'm sure you know what I mean. You can suss out those who are there not to buy pretty quick. Some live for giving sales people a hard time. 

I really do wish I could see myself as pretty.  I think of my looks like a really well made and beautiful piece of clothing, but on a wearer that it doesn't fit right.  I have really pretty skin.  My eyelashes go on for days.  My eyes are a rare color.  I have naturally curly hair that is currently halfway down my back.  I have really nice lips.  I'm carrying some extra weight but it's well shaped and hourglassy.  I feel like the features of my face are all fine on their own but don't fit together well.  I think I look a lot better in pictures than in real life. 

My eyes being crossed is a huge thing. A lot of people are just really put off by crossed eyes.  I feel like it's almost a cosmic joke, too.  Because I was so lucky to inherit this rare exotic eye color but then my eyes are crossed.  I've only been told I have pretty eyes maybe 3 times in my life.  But I've had dozens of people make rude comments about my eyes being crossed.  Perception is reality.  It's more about what people notice than what is actually there, in most cases. 

My hair is gorgeous.  I won't even pretend it isn't.  But I've had people ask if it's a wig and then pull it when I tell them it isn't.  Believe it or not that's happened 4 times.  To be fair, two of them were when I was a teenager by other teenagers.  And the other two were drunks in bars.  So, like, yeah, everyone who did that to me was immature or drunk.  But still, drunk people speak the truth and kids are brutally honest.  So, I'm sure a lot of other people also think my hair is fake.  

I also have about the worst resting b*tchface ever.  I really don't try to look mean.  But I've had a lot of people tell me I just don't look like a nice person. One of these people was a therapist I had when I was 18.  She told me I'm graduating soon and I'll be out in the adult world, and I need to learn how to present myself.  And she said my expression is going to be a real problem for most people.  I tried to remedy this by always having a half smile on my face when I went out in public.  I worked retail in college, and I had customers think I was copping an attitude because I was smirking at them. 

I will say this though... seeing my face when I was dead was a really interesting experience.  I've actually heard other NDE survivors say similar things.  We never see our faces in 3D form.  We only see ourselves in mirrors and in photos.  It really was jarring seeing myself laying there.  I didn't realize it was me.  We look completely different to others.  I thought maybe it was because I was seeing myself in a spiritual sense.  Like, I'm not actually looking with my eyes so of course I look different.  But whatever it is, apparently it's something others experienced too.  Because other people who saw themselves during a near death experience say that didn't recognizes themself at first.  And when I say I saw myself, I mean that literally.  I saw my body laying there.

So...  I try not to be so hard on myself when it comes to how I look.  I just know society doesn't lie. I had the 4 year old nephew of someone I was dating ask out loud at a family gathering once, "Why's your girlfriend so ugly?"  I've also had more than one child ask me what's wrong with my eyes.  I know these are kids.  But kids don't have a filter and they say things adults don't say because those things are rude/inappropriate.  When I was in high school a group of guys made a list of the ten hottest girls and the ten ugliest girls in the school and were passing it around.  I was number one on the ugly list.  I've also thought that could've been just because I was the goth chick in a high school full of preppie people who wore Abercrombie and Fitch clothes and all looked alike.  There was no one else at my high school who dressed like that.  So, being different is the same as being ugly in a place like that.  

The futurist in me can't fully hate AI.  But I really need to be careful who I say that to because anything other than hating it can have really negative consequences in the creative world.  So many people are so up in arms right now about it.  They are outraged just to be outraged.  Most people don't stop to think about the nuances and the ways we can use it.  Pretty much all the festivals have a no AI clause in their rules now.  And that's great.  I think they should.  No one should be selling AI art claiming it's their own.  But that doesn't mean it's not interesting to play around with.  I love typing random stuff into MidJourney just to see what it comes up with.

Anyway, I need to get to sleep.

 

 

[Cynder]

All of us at work use an app called Sling to communicate with each other.  And so even when I'm not there I can see conversations between my co workers. 

I am supposed to be off at 6AM through the week.  I am never off at 6AM because no one can get there in time to relieve me.  And since I take public transportation, they all know my ride is never there on time.  So people who are scheduled for that shift seem to think, "Well, her ride usually gets there at 6:30 anyway, so I have until 6:30.  Ok, well, just because I'm there doesn't mean I should have to be behind the counter working.  What if I want to go walk on the treadmill for a half hour or whatever.  If there was somewhere nearby I could go and weight I would.  But there's nowhere near my work that is open at that time of the morning other than gas stations. 

So Friday it's like 6:25 and I know my ride is pulling up soon.  And my boss isn't there yet.  So I text him and ask if he's close by because my ride will be here soon.  He texts back, "Well, I'm just chillin in the back room, let me know when they get here."  Ok... so you're in the building and you're not up here helping because I'm just being relied on to work the counter.  Cool.  Then at 6:30 he comes up from and gives me a weird look.  He says, "So they're late?"  I just told him yea, it looks like they are.  And he's like, "Well do you know how late they're going to be?"  I told him no.  And then he tells me he's running back home real quick because he forgot something.  And so I just have to work the counter until he's back.  Well, ride was really late that day and they didn't get there till almost 7.  And the whole time I'm working the counter by myself.  This is one of the busiest times for us, because a lot of people come in before work.  And that's also the time when all the Karens and soccer moms come in and act super entitled.  I hate dealing with that after just working all night.  But I guess I have to, lol.

Well, I was awake this morning at around 8:30 AM.  I hadn't gone to bed yet.  We close on Friday and Saturday nights, and we open back up at 6AM.  Well, it was 8:30 AM and the gym was still closed.  A guy who works part time named Alex drove by and saw all these people standing outside.  He stopped to see if everything was ok and a bunch of people were livid because the gym was closed.  Apparently our other manager, my female boss, who was supposed to open today overslept.  I can understand oversleeping a few minutes, but she overslept almost 3 hours.  Alex couldn't open because he doesn't have a key.  And so I am seeing this all play out on Sling and laughing to myself.  My boss who relieves me during the week is the owner.  He's not just a manager.  And he can't be there on time.  And now my female manager who is a perfectionist and throws a fit if anyone else is a few minutes late, is almost 3 hours late and all these customers are mad.  I'm just shaking my head and glad to not be involved in that bit of drama.  I love my job.  And knowing I am more reliable than management and even the owner is just funny to me. 

I think I need to re-evaluate the amount of vitamin D I'm taking again.  I've been really tired this weekend and I slept most of it away, honestly.  Then suddenly at around 1AM this morning I got a massive burst of energy and went downstairs, did my food prep for the week, did my laundry, set up my painting area so it's ready to go when I wake up, etc.  I am so determined to have at least two new paintings for RCTC.  The fact that I haven't painted anything for so long other than commissions is scaring me, honestly.  I really need to get back to it before I start to lose it. 

[Batya33]

I stopped taking extra D because of some things I read recently about potential negative effects but my multivitamin has it.  I also try to get outside every day for a little sun (without dangerous amount of sun).  

Reliability is such a great skill/value/attribute in almost every job and it definitely pays off long term and in small and big ways. 

I think people who have gym memberships and go regularly and go at a very specific time like early morning (I do but I go downstairs to the small fitness room in my building) have such a wide variety of reasons why so it's hard to tell - some can find no other time to do it, some know they won't do it unless it's early morning (partly my reason), some have to do some sort of fitness work as part of PT or for a medical or mental health condition, some have to be at work way early and work late into the night and some just need that kind of space from all The Things and it's a place where they can get away from it all for a short time.

In my life and for the reasons I work out daily I'd be livid if my gym was closed for no real reason other than someone overslept especially early morning.,  I'd have to still work out and when I've been in similar situations I personally can switch it up much of the time by working out outdoors or as a very last resort the DVD at home I used for years when I was trapped in my apartment lol because my husband was traveling and I couldn't leave my child on his own (and hiring a sitter for that short amount of time seemed ridiculous so I never did it).

I'm sure there are exceptions but most people I know who work out at 6am aren't doing so because  that's their favorite time of day as far as pleasure to do so -it's often more of a have to or it won't get done.

They are lucky to have you and I'm sorry you've had to work overtime like that!!

I think the painting -the talent, the mojo of it so to speak will come back to you when you're ready to resume. 

[Cynder]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I stopped taking extra D because of some things I read recently about potential negative effects but my multivitamin has it.  I also try to get outside every day for a little sun (without dangerous amount of sun).  

Reliability is such a great skill/value/attribute in almost every job and it definitely pays off long term and in small and big ways. 

I think people who have gym memberships and go regularly and go at a very specific time like early morning (I do but I go downstairs to the small fitness room in my building) have such a wide variety of reasons why so it's hard to tell - some can find no other time to do it, some know they won't do it unless it's early morning (partly my reason), some have to do some sort of fitness work as part of PT or for a medical or mental health condition, some have to be at work way early and work late into the night and some just need that kind of space from all The Things and it's a place where they can get away from it all for a short time.

In my life and for the reasons I work out daily I'd be livid if my gym was closed for no real reason other than someone overslept especially early morning.,  I'd have to still work out and when I've been in similar situations I personally can switch it up much of the time by working out outdoors or as a very last resort the DVD at home I used for years when I was trapped in my apartment lol because my husband was traveling and I couldn't leave my child on his own (and hiring a sitter for that short amount of time seemed ridiculous so I never did it).

I'm sure there are exceptions but most people I know who work out at 6am aren't doing so because  that's their favorite time of day as far as pleasure to do so -it's often more of a have to or it won't get done.

They are lucky to have you and I'm sorry you've had to work overtime like that!!

I think the painting -the talent, the mojo of it so to speak will come back to you when you're ready to resume. 

I started taking it because I work at night.  People who work my schedule are usually vitamin D deficient.  Not always, but it's highly likely.  And I've been D deficient in the past even while working during the day. 

I completely understand why people were so pissed off on Saturday morning.  Most of our early morning crowd comes in before work, so they are on a time crunch.  A lot of people probably missed their workout on Saturday.  And I'm guessing all the ones who were really pissed were the people who tan.  Because tanning, for some reason, brings out the absolute worst in people.  People who come to the gym to work out are generally easy going.  But the people who come to tan are nasty AF when things don't go exactly their way. 

Anyway, I need to go take a shower and hopefully paint something before leaving for work later. 

 

[Cynder]

So, this is a story I need to tell.  I'm a massive skeptic when it comes to everything.  But sometimes it's hard to ignore the Universe when it's telling you something, or when things align a certain way.  I don't really understand the message here entirely.  But I know there was a message of some kind. 

So, D and I went a couple weeks where we didn't talk as much.  Nothing bad happened.  He's just going through a divorce, and I'm editing a novel.  Neither of us were doing much talking to anyone, not just each other. 

Also, there is a number that both of us consider a lucky number.  It's a multi digit number, too.  Not like 5 or something that would be really common.  So we've always done this thing where we text each other (with a pic if possible) if we see that number somewhere. 

So, last month there was no open mic night because the organizer was dealing with some stuff in her personal life and she had to take a month off.  And so open mic night resumed last night.  I know it seems like I'm just mentioning a bunch of random stuff, but I swear it all ties together. 

So, I go on the organizer's facebook page to make sure open mic night is happening last night.  And right at the top of her page is this big black square with that number in the center in white, and below it, it says, "Make a wish." 

So, I blew it up to where the number was pretty big and centered in my phone screen, and screenshotted it and texted it to him.  The words, "Make a wish" were also in the message. 

He replied a minute later.  His reply said., "I wish..."  He did this because if he tells me what he wished for it won't come true. 

Ok...  so open mic is happening last night.  I go to sleep.  Then 7 hours later I get up and get ready to go to open mic.  Open mic was great as always.  It was good to see everyone. 

And then as I was leaving the bar, this lady who I've never met before comes up to me and hands me this folded piece of paper that feels like handmade parchment paper.  I'm attaching a pic.  It's not just regular printer paper or notebook paper.  I think it's handmade paper.  She told me she thought I needed it.  I thanked her and told her to have a nice night.  I didn't read it until I got home.  But it said, "There are no black sheep in God's kingdom.  You are deeply loved." 

I actually teared up a little bit when I read it because some random stranger just handed it to me.  Then I took the picture (the same one I'm attaching here) and sent it to D.  I told him some lady handed this to me when I was leaving open mic night, and I thought he could use some positivity today. 

And he texted back, "What I wished for earlier was to know that I'm loved." 

So...  This could all be a coincidence.  But maybe it isn't.  Maybe that message was actually intended for him and I was just supposed to be the conduit to give it to him.  Or maybe it was meant for both of us.  Or maybe it meant nothing and it's just a cool story.  Either way, it's a story worth telling. I seriously think I might frame it and put it in my office.  Or maybe frame it and give it to him. 

 

[Cynder]

I know I've written a lot about the differences between attractive people and ugly people in here, etc.  I'm sure it's something people get tired of hearing about in this thread.  But it's something I notice every day and don't talk about IRL.  I don't understand how people think pretty privilege isn't a thing.  I see it all the time at my job.  I work somewhere that exists because of vanity.  Sure, people come there to work out and the place markets itself as a health club.  But most people who work out regularly aren't health motivated.  They are vanity motivated.  And I would say a good 50% of our clientele doesn't even come there to work out. They come there to tan. 

But, I work with hot people.  My former co worker, S, is a cam girl, a former stripper and she's also an escort.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of those professions.  I'm only saying that because think of the kind of person who does those jobs and what they must look like.  I mean, of course she is really hot.  She started off the street making more than I make, and she started there 3 months after me. 

For a time, there were three of us on overnights.  Me, S and a guy named Chad (I know... Chad, right? lol.)  Well, S and Chad had a thing going for a while.  And when all three of us worked together, we would annihilate our cleaning list in like 90 minutes.  Then S and Chad would just leave.  They would go get food, go back to one of their apartments, do the nasty, sleep for a few hours, and then come back to work at around 5:30 AM.  The whole time they were gone they were on the clock, too.  I never said anything because I don't rat on people.  But management found out eventually, and did nothing. 

Now neither of them work there anymore.  S quit, Chad was fired because when they broke up he would come to work and rage all over the place, cuss at her, etc. 

So now there are two of us on nights, me and a girl I'll call H.  H is also hot.  But she is hot in a more approachable way.  Like, S and I worked together for 2 years.  And guys rarely hit on her.  But she looks like a porn star.  She is the kind of hot that guys like to look at but will rarely approach, if that makes sense.  And she also was not friendly to customers, which probably had a lot to do with it.  The few times I saw customers try to flirt with her she would roll her eyes and basically tell them passive aggressively what a loser they are. 

H is hot in that girl next door kind of way that guys feel safe approaching, and she's really friendly.  So she gets hit on constantly at work.  And I like H.  I like S too.  I don't have a problem with either of these girls.  But H and I split the cleaning list in half.  Every night she comes in and does her half of the list.  It takes her about 2 hours.  And then as soon as she's done, she takes her laptop into the back room and sits and watches movies for the rest of her shift, leaving me to do all the laundry, take care of all the customers, clean and sanitize the tanning beds after each use, etc.  She does this because it makes her uncomfortable being hit on so much.  She talked to management about it, and they are ok with it.  Ok, so she comes in, works for 2 hours, and then sits in the quiet breakroom unbothered on her laptop for 6 hours.  And this is because she can't handle being hit on.  I understand that must be annoying for her.  But come on...  It isn't fair that I basically just have to do everything because she can't handle guys flirting with her.  Because I still have my half of the cleaning list to do, plus all the customer service stuff.  From 10-12 we are usually pretty busy.  So for the first two hours, she cleans while I man the front desk and clean tanning beds.  Then around midnight I do my cleaning while she's in the breakroom.  Then around 5AM we get busy again, and I'm back behind the desk doing all the customer service stuff.  It doesn't take me 5 hours to clean.  I'm usually done with my part of the list in 2 hours too.  But I have to stay where customers can see me.  So even when I'm not cleaning, I'm still at the desk. 

It is interesting though...  Whenever I've worked with a guy on overnight, if someone comes in and needs a manager, they would always assume the guy is the manager.  There's not an overnight manager.  But people would walk in and be like, "Where's *guy's name* I have a question about my membership." Etc.  Or after months of being by myself at night, they hired a guy to help me and I had customers saying things like, "Oh they must be cracking down on you.  The boss is here."  Uh... he's not the boss.  He just started.  Or I would get people thinking he's the actual gym employee and I'm just the cleaning lady. 

Now that H and I work overnight, everyone assumes I'm the manager/one in charge.  So apparently I must look like I know more of what I'm doing, at least.  

But yea, H gets to spend most of her shift relaxing in the breakroom because she's pretty, is what it boils down to. 

Growing up, my sister got certain privileges that I didn't get because she was pretty.  And my Mom outright stated this.  My Mom would talk about how my sister gets to do these things because she's so pretty and she's only going to be a teenager once, etc.  Ok, well I'm also only going to be a teenager once.  I didn't really have the typical teen experience that most people have because my parents kept such a tight leash on me. 

I've thought recently about my author photos.  Some authors use fake pictures because people are less likely to buy your book if you're ugly.  And that isn't me just saying that.  There are agents who will tell their unattractive clients to use fake pics.  I have the advantage of looking a lot better in pics than in real life, though.  My eyes don't look as messed up in pics as they do IRL.

It's sad too that this only applies to female authors.  Male authors don't have to be attractive to sell books.  I notice this with artists, too.  Male artists don't have to look good.  Female artists do, though.  And people think only pretty people can make pretty things, too.  After ten years in the festival scene, I've seen this first hand.  People lavish praise and compliments all over the most attractive person working the booth because well, they must be the artist.  Sometimes not even if they are working.  Z was sitting in the back of my booth with her head down playing games on her phone at one show, and multiple people went up to her to tell how her talented she is.  

I don't lose my cool with customers very often.  It's happened a few times.  But some customers are jerks.  One was some drunk guy cussing me and my worker out because my prices are too high.  Another time was when some 55 year old creep wouldn't stop hitting on my employee who was less than half his age, and after security told him to leave, etc, he snuck back in and came up to her.  I just lost my crap and screamed at this dude.  I basically told him, "You've been told multiple times now and we've been nice. Since you can't listen to reason, get the F out of my tent!" 

But one time I lost my cool with a customer right after Z and I broke up.  L was helping me at a show and after like the 6th time someone came into the booth and told her how talented she is, some guy was praising her art, and she told him I'm actually the artist, and he acted all surprised.  I kinda snapped at him.  I said something like, "Yeah I know it's so shocking that ugly people can be talented to isn't it?" 

Idk... if my ugliness could be fixed easily I would fix it.  It sucks that I don't really have a choice in the matter and am automatically considered less capable, etc.  But also have to work harder at my job because I'm not as pretty as my coworkers. 

 

[Batya33]

I think that taller people -men in particular -do better in the corporate world than shorter men and for sure looking pretty is a plus in many corporate environments. Life isn't fair. It's not fair of course.  I did my hair a very different way when I was in the corporate world so I'd look prettier/more professional/less cutesie with my natural curls.  I carried myself a certain way too as far as posture.  Wore heels for many years because I'm short.  And short is often a negative in leadership roles especially.  I also saw very attractive people be treated better because of their looks.  I personally do not care at all.  I never care what my doctors look like or my hair salon guy etc.  I care about their demeanor, tone, attitude for sure especially if it's a personal interaction.  

[Cynder]

30 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think that taller people -men in particular -do better in the corporate world than shorter men and for sure looking pretty is a plus in many corporate environments. Life isn't fair. It's not fair of course.  I did my hair a very different way when I was in the corporate world so I'd look prettier/more professional/less cutesie with my natural curls.  I carried myself a certain way too as far as posture.  Wore heels for many years because I'm short.  And short is often a negative in leadership roles especially.  I also saw very attractive people be treated better because of their looks.  I personally do not care at all.  I never care what my doctors look like or my hair salon guy etc.  I care about their demeanor, tone, attitude for sure especially if it's a personal interaction.  

I don't care what my doctors look like, either.  When I walk in somewhere I don't just assume the most attractive worker knows the most, or the man must be in charge.  At festivals I don't assume the man or the hottest chick is the artist.  I know you're not accusing me of that.  I'm just saying, because I know how it feels, I don't make assumptions about anyone's position/intelligence/talent, etc based on gender or looks. 

I have naturally curly hair too.  And when I was a kid my Mom would take me to my grandma or my aunt (both hair stylists) and have them chop it all off whenever it started getting long enough to look nice.  I had short boyish hair for most of my childhood and early teen years.  It was almost like my parents wanted me to be as ugly as possible as a kid.  I get compliments on my hair all the time, even now. 

Being hot is how Z gets away with most of the stuff she pulls, I"m convinced.  She can't keep a job to save her life because of the drinking and the drama.  But all she has to do is walk in anywhere and fill out an app and she's hired.  She can treat her partners like crap and it doesn't matter because someone else is always right there wanted to date her. 

I've had people ask me why I got tattooed like I am.  And part of it is because I just like tattoos.  But also it was to have some level of control over how I look.  I can't change that my eyes are messed up.  I can't change the contour of my face (I mean yeah, plastic surgery, but I can't afford that and don't want to do it.) So it was a matter of being ugly but covering myself with beautiful art. 

Anyway, I have a chapter to revise. 

 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Cynder said:

I don't care what my doctors look like, either.  When I walk in somewhere I don't just assume the most attractive worker knows the most, or the man must be in charge.  At festivals I don't assume the man or the hottest chick is the artist.  I know you're not accusing me of that.  I'm just saying, because I know how it feels, I don't make assumptions about anyone's position/intelligence/talent, etc based on gender or looks. 

I have naturally curly hair too.  And when I was a kid my Mom would take me to my grandma or my aunt (both hair stylists) and have them chop it all off whenever it started getting long enough to look nice.  I had short boyish hair for most of my childhood and early teen years.  It was almost like my parents wanted me to be as ugly as possible as a kid.  I get compliments on my hair all the time, even now. 

Being hot is how Z gets away with most of the stuff she pulls, I"m convinced.  She can't keep a job to save her life because of the drinking and the drama.  But all she has to do is walk in anywhere and fill out an app and she's hired.  She can treat her partners like crap and it doesn't matter because someone else is always right there wanted to date her. 

I've had people ask me why I got tattooed like I am.  And part of it is because I just like tattoos.  But also it was to have some level of control over how I look.  I can't change that my eyes are messed up.  I can't change the contour of my face (I mean yeah, plastic surgery, but I can't afford that and don't want to do it.) So it was a matter of being ugly but covering myself with beautiful art. 

Anyway, I have a chapter to revise. 

 

In my line of work and in my career looks help to an extent and in certain aspects of the work but it's not going to get you far at all if you cannot do the job well including a can do attitude, teamwork when needed, all of that.  I worked with a very handsome guy who made a pass at me then threatened to hit his female boss. Fired that day (or agreed to resign but he was --- gone.).   When I was pregnant I looked really cute and I waddled.  I did get more attention for that from certain coworkers but no I didn't get a pass as  far as my work quality.  I took one day off for illness from the pregnancy and got an assignment a few hours later to work on from home. I had to ask for what I needed - I was too tired to work late at night, had to stop my air flights at a certain point - looking cute and people being excited about my soon being a mom helped in sort of an even more positive environment -but nothing to do with professional accolades or criticisms.

I think it depends on type of job/industry even geography.  My sister was very very pretty as a child/teen and used to get free stuff at festivals -meaning food/french fries- I was awkward looking and didn't.  

I don't find tattoos or extra piercings attractive.  That's just me.  Doesn't change how I interact with the person in a business or social setting.  I don't do hiring/firing and I'm sure in certain jobs/industries tattoos might be a negative.  In others they are positive from what I have seen indirectly.  Other people don't find my glasses attractive I'm sure and I cannot wear contact lenses anymore.  Oh well.