Intelligent, alone and depressed

[lerira]

Thanks for your input. I've tried to convey this, but it's very difficult because you have to fill in the blanks with whatever stereotype best fits me.

 

This is not about superiority or some sort of intelligence complex. I'm not putting up intelligence walls and boundaries. I've described my problem as best as I can, and I have come to the conclusion that it may, in fact, be a matter of intelligence.

 

That doesn't mean I don't try to connect with everybody I meet. It just means that after a while it becomes apparent that we aren't connecting and never will. People live in their own little bubbles and it's hard to meet people down to earth.

 

It's not my attitude. People believe the key to happiness is lowering your expectations so you're never let down. I disagree.

 

How about your work colleagues? One can be intelligent but lack in speaking skills. As in, one can write eloquently but speak commonly.

 

I'm not sure what you're looking for.....You speak you're very intelligent so I'm assuming you hold impressive degrees? How about a PhD in physics? Would a person of such educational caliber suffice for your friendship?

[Existential]

I sense a hint of sarcasm in your post.

 

I don't actually hold any science-related degrees, although I am writing a book about philosophy and science. At my job, I'm afraid I don't get exposed to too many new people. As a boss, I try to keep a professional distance from my employees. That being said, I make it a point to take interest in all of my employees, and I try to get to know new clients that we meet. Who knows, maybe one will be my future best friend.

 

I have been gearing up to attend science conferences in Boston for the next few weeks. I'm trying to subject myself to as many new people as possible. It's hard to feel excited about it, however. I'm trying not to let my pessimism poison potential meet-ups. I am making an honest effort. It doesn't change the feedback loop of bad experiences causing me to be negative, but I certainly keep that inside in every aspect of my life- save this forum. I came here because I needed to let it out somewhere.

[90_hour_sleep]

Thanks for your input. I've tried to convey this, but it's very difficult because you have to fill in the blanks with whatever stereotype best fits me.

 

This is not about superiority or some sort of intelligence complex. I'm not putting up intelligence walls and boundaries. I've described my problem as best as I can, and I have come to the conclusion that it may, in fact, be a matter of intelligence.

 

That doesn't mean I don't try to connect with everybody I meet. It just means that after a while it becomes apparent that we aren't connecting and never will. People live in their own little bubbles and it's hard to meet people down to earth.

 

It's not my attitude. People believe the key to happiness is lowering your expectations so you're never let down. I disagree.

 

hmmmm...apologies if i misunderstood your intent. just the vibe i got.

 

you may not consciously expect relationships to lack the connective element...but maybe it's something you've become so used to that you're beginning to go along with it (ie. no more resistance)? have you always had this difficulty? thinking back...can you determine when it started?

 

i think i understand what you're getting at though. the intelligence factor is really just a hypothesis. it wasn't your means of explanation? or am i still missing the point? lol

 

how do you view other facets of interaction? do you find genuine interest in others? why/why not? do you relate? why/why not? are you encouraging/discouraging? why/why not? does it feel awkward? why/why not? maybe it's something completely unrelated to the intelligence factor. really...there are so many different ways to communicate. every person you interact with will bring different things to the table. i think that's part of the appeal of interpersonal relationships. they're not all the same. they fluctuate constantly. even a relationship with one person will be prone to these fluctuations. can easily go from mundane to deeply engaging...and back to mundane again.

 

i think it's pretty clear...there will always be people out there that just don't communicate well together. there are just too many barriers. but...for the sake of exploration...why are the people that are living in their bubbles having meaningful interactions (because the odds seem to favour that at least some of them are having meaningful interactions at least part of the time)? is it because they're surrounded by people who share the same bubble wavelength? even within one bubble...you're bound to find people that operate at varying degrees of this, that, or the other way of being.

[penelope13]

And perhaps my expectations are set to high, but I don't really control that.

 

I beg to differ: you do have control over your expectations. I'm not claiming that your expectations are too high and need to be lowered, but maybe a bit unrealistic in the following sense (and thus it may profit you to adjust your expectations): while you realize that your way of thinking is outside the norm (meaning the majority of people have different thought processing mechanisms), you still have the hope and expectations that you will find someone with a very similar set of thought processing skills and interest set in a relatively short time by being exposed to a relatively small number of people. I think you have the skills yourself to estimate the statistical probability and thus the minimum number of people required that you would have to meet in order to find someone else with a similar set of thought processing mechanisms (I was looking for a very neutral term of expressing your "uniqueness/difference" without associating any adjectives to it) given the rarity of this particular "mechanism". Thus if you work under the assumption that you are so far to the right side of the Gauss curve in your approach to life and social/intellectual interactions, the logical conclusion must be that it will take many, many people for you to interact with till you will have a significant chance of finding someone equally in close proximity to your position on that imaginary Gauss distribution, i.e lower your expectations in that sense, that you hope to find that person very soon and in your close proximity.

 

What you can do is to increase your chance of finding mind-like individuals (be it for friendships or a relationship) by either using the internet to increase the number of people you interact with as well as widen the geographical distance of people with whom you interact, or you consider to move to a different location where it will be more likely to meet an increased number of people with similar interest/intellect etc such as a city with some major universities.

 

The other suggestion is to accept that maybe you won't find someone (any time soon) with whom you can share everything and who can relate to all aspects of your intellect. Why not foster friendships with different people with whom you can share different aspects of yourself? You can find many people who are interested in music; people who like philosophy; people who like arts etc; it's only difficult to find someone who has all the same interests as you do. Thus only expecting to share one particular aspect of yourself with someone would probably be beneficial to you. That was actually the most liberating thing for myself: not to expect someone else to understand all of me, not even my partner.

 

Yes, being outside the norm brings its own challenges and by the nature of it, not many people may be able to relate. However being outside the norm also means you have the ability to deal with those challenges, you just have to be willing to invest the necessary energy to find a solution both in theory and then putting it into practice.

[Existential]

You make a valid point. I think we can assume that it's more statistically unlikely that I'm actually all that out of the ordinary, and that my varied samples are just anomalously unintelligent. If we look at this objectively, I haven't met enough people to make any assumptions - just like you mentioned.

 

One of your suggestions is to accept the data that I've got, and deal with it accordingly. Yes, that's the most appropriate response, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to be particularly happy about it. Although the fake-it-till-you-make-it form of denial is a great way to lower your expectations gradually, it's not an easy battle when you're in the thick of it.

 

But everybody here has a great point. What do you do with what you can't change? Change yourself.

 

I definitely think I'm processing these things quite well. For instance, I'm making an effort to go out as often as possible and meet new people. I'm optimistic that these people will bring new ideas and feelings to me. My feelings of depression are still there, but are less common as time moves forward. I don't expect every person I meet has the secret key to my happiness. I just miss that feeling of connection I used to get.

 

The reason that feeling has changed in the past few years is likely due to my moving forward in life while others my age haven't. I started a business and have been very busy becoming the young professional. Most of my old friends ended up with unambitious jobs after college and continued their lives like they were still in high-school. I used to connect with them because I used to be just like them. But these days, I rarely find people my age I connect with on any level.

 

A suggestion I've heard a lot is hang out with an older crowd. I am taking that suggestion very seriously as well. I went to my first link removed meeting last night, per the suggestions earlier in this thread. I met some potentially very smart business people. I hope to continue networking with them and maybe even make friendships.

 

I really appreciate everybody's help on here. I'm not better yet, but the plans are all in action, so I'll fake it till I make it.

[Sim54]

Just one thing.

Depression isn't an illness. It isn't something you can catch, but is best describe as a response to a situation.

If the world starts to impact too heavily on you, and there is a discord between how you believe things are, or how you hope they are, with how reality seems to be, then depression can be an escape, from the potential 'damage' of that split. Of course there is no real damage, just a challenge to how we see the world.

And it doesn't feel like a learned response, but rather something that happens to us.

 

Ultimately we are all responsible for how we feel, and what we do. We ALWAYS have a choice, even when the world seems to be 'making' us feel a certain way, in the end our emotional response is always within our control, even if only to take a time out to deal with the emotion.

 

Good luck.

[Existential]

I've always felt this way about depression. Far too many people think their lives have nothing to do with it. This type of insight is the type of insight people I meet usually lack. I don't think my goals are unrealistic- I just need to meet people who think like this.

[FrogIsFree]

Depression can be caused by shock and depression can continue while the you have not recovered or are recovering from shock. Somebody unexpectedly changing can cause the kind of shock that can occur before depression and precipitate after the intial shock has occurred. The body, not just the mind goes in to flight or fight response and while CBT may be effective for some people, it may not be effective with others so what I am saying is: don't automatically blame yourself or your 'attitude'.

 

Taking charge isn't necessarily as black and white as just being strong, making a choice and pulling yourself up by the boot straps to get on with it and life the life you choose, but you can take charge in a different way by addressing this as a health issue and researching the negative impact of stress on your physical and mental health as well as looking at how much control you have over situational factors.. but without the right support, this can be difficult to achieve.

 

Also, not all depression is psychological in origin ie what we chose and how we choose to respond.. therefore, it is important to get the right kind of help and make sure it is sympathetic and nobody jumps to conclusions about what sort of help you need.., so you don't start off down the wrong track and end up with help that isn't really help and still lacking correct and adequate support.

Chemical intolerance and endocrine imbalance such as that caused by illness can also cause depression of varying severities.

You need to look at it from different angles to find the answer that is right for you and your situation and that doesn't assume you are inadequate in your attitude, when you may need medical assistance to sort out physical and psychological problems that may not be so clear cut but are in fact overlapping.

[John Cage]

I have a few personal pet peeves...

 

1) It bothers me to no end that people use Intelligence as a reason (either partially or entirely) for their failures at having a social life. I do see this as a trend with a lot of "smart" people; but the really smart ones who are alone do it by choice (they like to be alone so they can do their own things). I have never once in my life find that I am unable to make friends and I have an IQ that actually makes me feel ashamed to be in just Mensa (no offense to fellow Mensans, but 98th percentile is really really low standard to be that proud of yourselves). Now something like the less-known High IQ society with cut offs at 99.9th percentile and higher, those are actually meaningful. 1 in a thousand is like the top 2-3 in a high school... Not bad. Top 2 in a hundred is just NOTHING (still better than the other 98, but it's not "much").

 

2) It bothers me that people have problems with Mensa due to not able to get in... I know people like this too. I had a friend who was excited about Mensa the way I was and after the test, he's all bragging how he got to like more than half way of the WPT (Wonderlic Personal Test, that's the one we got in Montreal). I was thinking in my head... "Dude, I finished and I ... double checked..." After he failed to make Mensa, he started saying things like "Oh, I just don't think it's an accurate measurement of intelligence... What is intelligence anyways? I don't need a card to prove I am smart... blah blah...

 

If you truly hate Mensa but you are smart enough to get in... Take a picture of your acceptance letter. I am sure 99% of the people who took the test and made it eventually joined (or else why bother taking the test in the first place?).

[CGan]

You think too much.

[kevinmaven]

I'm intelligent and typically don't connect with people because I have a hard time being stimulated without some sort of intelligent discussion. I enjoy discussion on concepts involving philosophy, but believe philosophy is a dead topic, and science takes over where philosophy once reigned.. (but this is another topic altogether!)

 

My issue has many problems:

1. I don't connect with people because they don't understand me, my thought process, or why I act a certain way. I do make quite an effort to communicate what my thought process is on most things, but, alas, most people are so stuck in their ways that they don't even value the purpose of critical thought, let alone attempt it themselves. I typically cannot get people to put aside their preconceived notions long enough to accept my presuppositions.

 

 

The only idea I could come up with is to make a bigger effort to find people who think like I do.

[iamthewalrus]

She took the cowards way out and made a decision for the both of us without giving us a real shot. In my opinion, that's failure in the sense of love. I'm only happy I never married her, since she has the capacity to do this.

 

I actually made an account in order to respond to this thread. It struck a chord with me on many levels, but the first one is the quote above. The truth is, EVERYONE has the capacity to do something like that, even you yourself. Because we're humans. We aren't machines, or theories, or scientific principles. We all make mistakes, and that's allowed. But what's stopping you from connecting with people isn't your intelligence, it's your failure to realize that we're all essentially the same. And until you do that, you're demonstrating no more emotional honesty than the people you say are toxic to your life.

 

Logic is a great thing. Emotion is a great thing too. The danger comes when you try to process one as the other, or banish one in favor of the other. It's a delicate balance, and I don't think there's a person in the world who has it completely figured out. The successful ones are the ones who keep trying even with that knowledge.

 

My suggestion to you is actually a bit the opposite of everyone else in the thread: take an improv class. It really forces you to connect with others (whether or not you want to) and explore yourself emotionally in ways nothing else can. Studying improv tends to really change people's lives in positive ways, and I agree with other posters: the change needs to happen in you.

[AnnaJ]

I think I understand your problem. It reminded me of something I read about highly gifted people, ie people with an IQ over 130-160...(matter of discussion ). I assume you are one of them. I do believe that these people (I don't dare to include myself, although I recognize alot) are not only in the proud possession of a high IQ, they are also fundamentally different in their overall way of thinking, how they deal with others, and their level of sensitivity. Society is controlled by the 'averages'. Originality and insights are laughed at, since 'they' think it is rediculous. The cold and hard truth is something they avoid. If you try to reason, they back off, leaving you frustrated. And, by the way, universities are overcrowded by averages, sadly enough, so that doesn't mean anything (having a degree that is, don't get me started on this topic). Your moral values, your search for the truth behind things,...these are things many people simply don't bother about. They live their life, feed the dog, go to bed, c'est ca.

 

However, as many in this forum have already mentioned: the one (being gifted) doesn't necessarily exclude the other (companionship), as I have observed quite often during conferences and such. So yes, it is possible. The problem is that you, or I at least, might have problems finding people like yourself in your own place. The other problem is your age, I am just guessing, but after finishing school/university/whatever, it is much more difficult to find persons with similar interests. I acknowledge your problem fully. It is frustrating, it is depressing, but you must keep going, otherwise you may one day be that person you never intended to become: alone, angry with the world, disappointed by life itself. You have only one life, and I know it is a cliche, but think about it. You must live it now, make changes now.

 

I disagree with the person above me: we are not all the same, yes we are humans, but we are not the same. I do agree with the improv class. Perhaps not exactly that, but you could try some activities in which you don't need to analyze and reason, but just DO something. Friends come in many categories, and having a few activity-friends with whom you only share very specific things, should not be a problem. If you cannot find it in one person, try combining. Think practicle (oh wait... that is what you do, right?), you will need people in your life, you are going to need help with things sooner or later. The more diverse your network is, the better. Even if it includes individuals who are not such great analyzers and philosofers. Does it matter that that one Karate-friend has the mind of a peanut, at least you can practise with the guy and have endless conversations about the techniques.

 

I do have another idea though: your book. Writers, writers associations...can't you find an entrance to that group of people? Perhaps they are who you are looking for. There are courses and groups in which you can discuss each other's work, so at least you will get something to keep your mind going.

 

Finally, if your feelings of depression get worse, you should seek help. Many people run to the GP to get a pill that should be the solution for life's issues. I do not call that depression. Real depression is a disease, and needs treatment. For someone like you, it may even be very interesting to dive into your own psyche with help of a professional, regardless of the problem being clinical depression or not. Unless..... you don't take that person seriously. And that may be a little bit of a problem in your case. You will think you know more than the psych, think it is all BS, start arguing with them, become classified as 'treatment-resistant' and perhaps give up on the whole thing. So find one that suits you. There may be therapists who exclusively deal with 'gifted people'. What's the word for that in English anyway? Well, you know what I mean. It is well-known that (gifted people) who are not treated in the right way as children will have problems in their adult life. Most importantly: depression.

Sorry, the story became very long, but I didn't have time to write a short one.

 

Good luck with your efforts.

[R J]

Hi, Wow! I'm glad you've vented. It can't be easy holding in all you've said. I think you're not alone in what you feel. I personally can relate to nearly all that you've said and am relieved to discover you and your experiences. I don't have answers as I am still searching myself and have reached a point in counselling where, as you've said, either they change or you do. I was fully opposed to the idea as, like you, I feel I haven't brought these emotional voids with in my relationships on myself. I go through life, still analysing, still frustrated, with insight that others just cannot see and an "emotional depth" that others are basically too scared to go to (if they do they can't stay for long as most people aren't build to deal with what I call "reality" and there only sadly only a few that can). I think sociatey lives in a bubble and there are a few of us that can see it but most simply don't. Then there are some that see it but are happy to live within in and there are those that see it and suffer not being free of it. I don't know what to make of this myself but I am of the latter. I've begun reading up on social/relationship psychology: On one side it feels useless to have such knowledge about people, as you do, I analyse people and work them out, but not be able to get others to understand. On the other hand understanding my direct relationship with others i.e. how THEY see me has given me a slighty different perspective. Sadly no one has the power to change the minds and actions of others all that can be done is an act to reveal as much as you can to people and guide them towards a change that they will hopefully make themselves.

 

You mention how others only care about themselves and on our most basic primative level this is true but I am glad that you have chosen to trust enough to let complete strangers hear your thoughts!

[AnnaJ]

Sadly no one has the power to change the minds and actions of others all that can be done is an act to reveal as much as you can to people and guide them towards a change that they will hopefully make themselves.

 

Yes! That is exactly it. What I´ve noticed is that if you continue explaining your thoughts, in a calm way, eventually some people DO get what you say. It is up to them ofcourse, but it is your behaviour that is the key. It is all about acceptance, perseverence and strength. Or, to throw in an old saying: give me grace to accept with serenity the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things which I should change, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

I think this is relevant. Do the best you can, be an inspiration if you can, but accept that people have a free will and you cannot control what they do with the information you provide.

Just look at the reactions here, the people who relate to this and experience the same thing. For some it is a comfort to know they are not alone in this, so thank you for sharing.

[mbr]

Hi (Existential), I was browsing around the internet and I saw this thread. It's pretty old so not sure if you are still around. I couldn't find any way to send you a message or anything like that, could I have an email address of yours or something? I have a feeling that we might get along (benefit of the doubt please)

[Ayanokōji]

Calling myself a christian would probably make me a hypocrite since I am a terrible christian but nevertheless, mentioned in the bible is King Soloman who asked for "wisdom" beyond all other things.

 

After he was granted "wisdom" life as we know it became child's play to him, everyone around him were unable to match up to his level of intellect and he could not connect with anyone because he was "too wise", eventually he got tired of life and started to pursue in acts of treason against God.

 

I think this story suggests that extremely philosophical/intellectual/wise/intelligent people have trouble finding a worthy opponent to challenge their thoughts, ideas, concepts. Unfortunately or fortunately however way you want to look at it, we human beings were born "social" creatures, without the presence of others the vast majority of us feel "lonely" and due to your high level of intellect socializing with as Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory would call it "peasants" extremely unrewarding and mundane while simultaneously being the same way for the less intellectual person.

 

"Even if I gain access to a steady stream of new people, the buzz of new people wears off, leaves me feeling used and empty, and I still do not connect with people. I find myself analyzing the people I meet, learning how they think and what makes them tick, and I find it easy to exploit the person to get them to like me. But there is no honesty here. I do not truly respect these people, and they do not stimulate me on any deep level."

 

I can relate to this as I replicate this behavior. However, I am not intelligent enough to deduce true "players" and do sometimes end up loosing. (Perhaps you should take up psychology as this interests me a great deal but have not had the time.)

 

Fortunately for me, there is someone who intellectually challenges me. Finding that person may be a tedious process the smarter you are however I don't think there is not a single person in this world who cannot live up to your level of intellect.

 

Seek and you shall find, don't give up.

 

 

 

P.S "When somebody won't change for you, you've got to learn to change yourself (cut ties)." *Cutting ties is not changing yourself

 

"3. I'm quite outgoing and friendly. I can usually get people to like me very quickly. and I have failed miserably at the common spots" *You are contradicting yourself here :S

[Ravency]

Not entirely sure how likely it is this will get read, but nonetheless word for word I'm identical to what you typed--at least up until the girlfriend of 4 years part. As a matter of fact, there was a small part of me that thought I had written it and just forgot it.

 

Anyways, amidst my depression, reading something that I could relate to for once in my 22 years of living--and honestly mean it, is the first time I've felt some sort of joy in a long time.

 

Thank you for sharing your story.

[LovelyLezo]

alas, most people are so stuck in their ways that they don't even value the purpose of critical thought, let alone attempt it themselves. I typically cannot get people to put aside their preconceived notions long enough to accept my presuppositions.

 

Wow, it seems like you want an audience, not a friend! You want to connect, but you expect everybody to come around to your way of thinking. Whilst i understand your need for indepth conversation, throughout your post, you talk about you, how you feel and how other people make you feel. You even mention that your girlfriend wanted to get away from you to go and live her life. Have you ever thought about changing your thought processes long enough to listen to how other people feel or to appreciate their experiences? Just saying.

[caseygrace09]

I am afraid I don't have any helpful advice to give like the people above. But I thought you should know that I went searching for something like this, and have been for a while. I'm afraid I feel the same way. Not necessarily on all points (I tend to try to preserve people's feelings and hide what I think is my "true self" because I know I can be abrasive and offensive). It's only just recently occurred to me that it might be my unique brand of intelligence that makes me feel that way.

1. I was never "arrogant" (confident?) enough to think that way in the past.

2. I always believed that the lonely genius was a romantic notion with little or no basis in real fact.

Truthfully, I can't have a conversation longer than ten minutes without eventually turning to the "big questions" like: What is consciousness? Where does it come from? Where do we come from? Are we truly in control of our own decisions? What is right and wrong and do they even exist or are they just social constructs? These things actually keep me awake at night, while I wonder if I'll even be alive long enough to begin to answer these sorts of questions. I'm 23 and in college and everyone around me is more concerned about effing Harambe than anything that actually matters (in my mind). It's so frustrating but I don't want to come off seeming as though I think I'm better than anyone else. I guess, my line of thinking has always been - with 7 billion people on the planet, surely there's someone who relates to feeling this way?

I don't consider myself to be all that socially awkward, but I seem to repel most 'normal' people even when I'm really trying. Sorry for the rant here, but I just thought it was worth laying it out if there's a chance someone also experiences these things.

[caseygrace09]

This is exactly how I feel, to the letter.

[Capricorn3]

Thread is 5 years old and the OP has never returned. Thread closed.

 

caseygrace09: it would be a good idea for you to start your own thread. Thanks!