OMG I feel even worse.....

[Batya33]

For me, personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable if my husband's place of choice to hang out during his free time was at a bar. Not because I don't trust him but because if it was a regular choice I would wonder if we had enough in common as far as interests/lifestyle. Of course it is "his time" if I am not available but I would be concerned about what his choices said about his mindset/perspective/lifestyle. I can relate to your husband's concern on that level.

[luv2bfit]

So much focus on the ring here it makes my head spin just to read this. You live with him, yes? Why haven't you proposed to him if that is what you want? Why are you choosing to experience this anxiety, this rollercoaster with someone you already live with and know you want to marry? So much of your post is about talking about the ring/ring selection/ring fingers/ring concealment in a safe. It's not about dangling carrots or about carats. I agree that it's important to have a ring and a wedding date to be officially engaged. But you can get engaged with a piece of string to stand in for a ring until you have one if you really want to follow tradition (a friend of mine did this).

 

That's just what we've discussed and how we see things happening. Might not be for everyone, if a woman wants to propose she should. Not for me, he wouldn't want that either. We feel the old traditional way of engagement is right for us. Man proposes... and a diamond ring is the item.

[luv2bfit]

For me, personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable if my husband's place of choice to hang out during his free time was at a bar. Not because I don't trust him but because if it was a regular choice I would wonder if we had enough in common as far as interests/lifestyle. Of course it is "his time" if I am not available but I would be concerned about what his choices said about his mindset/perspective/lifestyle. I can relate to your husband's concern on that level.

 

He knows I love dancing and dressing up. He also knows I have never dated anyone from a bar, had a one night stand, etc. That's not for me, never was. I've always been a long term relationship person and went to bars in all of those relationships. He knew this from the first day he met me... I told him if he did not approve of his gf going to bars, he should have told me in the beginning that was a deal breaker and I would have said that I'm sorry we are not compatible then. My bf was a BIG bar goer. When he was single he was in the bars with his friends every weekend. He's older now, so chooses not to go to bars in his free time, but it wouldn't bother me. And he even admitted he has met MOST of the women he has dated in bars (long terms included). A little double standard going on here.... Bars are OK in his mind... But when you are with him, he wants bars to NOT be ok. Sorry doesn't work that way.

[Batya33]

That's just what we've discussed and how we see things happening. Might not be for everyone, if a woman wants to propose she should. Not for me, he wouldn't want that either. We feel the old traditional way of engagement is right for us. Man proposes... and a diamond ring is the item.

 

Well then I don't think you have the right to complain as much as you are. You chose to live a very untraditional lifestyle by living with him before marriage and you are wanting to pick and choose what traditions to follow. Obviously he doesn't see it happening the way you describe because if he wanted to follow tradition, he would have proposed by now with the ring he said he bought already. Traditionally, a man would never make a woman wait this long for a proposal especially once he has lived with her and had sex with her, at least in my opinion.

 

Sounds like the picking and choosing "traditions" is making things way more stressful and confusing than they need to be. Since you are set on him proposing with a diamond ring and he has chosen up to this point not to propose, I would simply follow tradition and stop asking him "when" and change the topic nicely and gently if he brings up the marriage issue and say "how about when you are ready to propose, do so and otherwise there's nothing to discuss until then - after that we can discuss all the plans, wedding date, etc". Traditionally, a woman would never ask her bf about proposing because after awhile what's the difference between "when are you going to propose to me?" and "will you marry me?" It's like the woman who says she won't ask the guy out but says to him "so when are you going to ask me out?" A bit too much form over substance, in my opinion.

[luv2bfit]

I do agree with most of that.. I've made some mistakes. If I could go back I would NOT have moved in, until we were engaged.

The only thing IMO, is how much he has talked, hinted, looked at rings, rubbed my finger is completely unnecessary. Too much talk, no action. HOW can that not make someone anxious, confused? Hopeful, excited, then disappointed, etc.

Not fair in my opinion to do to someone who loves you and wants that to happen and the constant reminders gets someone's hopes up.

And as I mentioned, I obviously wasn't the only person seeing it because my best friend commented, my few close co-workers and my own father said he felt something was coming like months and months ago.

[Batya33]

I do agree with most of that.. I've made some mistakes. If I could go back I would NOT have moved in, until we were engaged.

The only thing IMO, is how much he has talked, hinted, looked at rings, rubbed my finger is completely unnecessary. Too much talk, no action. HOW can that not make someone anxious, confused? Hopeful, excited, then disappointed, etc.

Not fair in my opinion to do to someone who loves you and wants that to happen and the constant reminders gets someone's hopes up.

And as I mentioned, I obviously wasn't the only person seeing it because my best friend commented, my few close co-workers and my own father said he felt something was coming like months and months ago.

 

My point was - a few posts back - that you are choosing this situation by choosing to be so focused on the one tradition of the man proposing with a diamond. You are also choosing to tolerate his behavior. You definitely can tell him to please stop talking about marriage or hinting and simply propose when he is ready to propose, period. He's not "making you" anything because you are making the choice not to act in ways that would change this situation.

[luv2bfit]

My point was - a few posts back - that you are choosing this situation by choosing to be so focused on the one tradition of the man proposing with a diamond. You are also choosing to tolerate his behavior. You definitely can tell him to please stop talking about marriage or hinting and simply propose when he is ready to propose, period. He's not "making you" anything because you are making the choice not to act in ways that would change this situation.

 

Totally, I condoned it in the sense I just wanted to believe what he said, be patient and just hang in there.. Each time feeling "ok it will happen soon".. just relax.. Each time it didn't happen and talks/hints came up it frustrated me more & more. I got to a breaking point. So now I have said NO MORE talk... no house talk, no rubbing finger. You do when you're ready, if it's a year down the road or whenever. I'm done talking about it.

 

I already feel married, I just want the engagement to solidify what we have. I already told him I don't care about a wedding much.. I plan to buy a simple $500 white gown, add some bling on it and get married on a beach with our parents and maybe a best friend or 2.

No fancy crap, no big party with invitations.. no jack and jill.. I don't even care about a bachelorette party.

[Batya33]

Totally, I condoned it in the sense I just wanted to believe what he said, be patient and just hang in there.. Each time feeling "ok it will happen soon".. just relax.. Each time it didn't happen and talks/hints came up it frustrated me more & more. I got to a breaking point. So now I have said NO MORE talk... no house talk, no rubbing finger. You do when you're ready, if it's a year down the road or whenever. I'm done talking about it

 

Great. My sense is your motivation was to be patient and also because you prioritize the traditional proposal with diamond done by the man over the priority of being engaged/planning a marriage. That's your choice of course - we all have different priorities when it comes to commmitment and marriage. In my personal situation I confronted and reevaluated a number of traditions related to marriage and in hindsight - and at the time, too - am glad I changed my priorities to reach my goal.

 

What I also suggest is that you come up with your own time line of "how long would I stay in this relationship if he never proposed" and at the end of that time period - whenever that is - I would leave the relationship and tell him without anger or resentment (and that is key!) that if he changes his mind and wants to get married he can contact you, and if you are still interested and available you will consider it.

[FreedomRing]

Sorry - but everytime you explain his position, something else worthy of raising an eyebrow(at least to me) comes out..

 

Who cares if his PARENTS agreed with him? Why would he even be discussing matters of your relationship(to this degree)with his parents. Ok, I can totally understand when you want to get other perspectives from ppl you value their opinions with BUT, he's gotta know the repercussions of sharing your business with friends and family that are HIS.....those ppl are automatically biased. It's not really fair to you, not everyone can give an objective opinion and of course people like your PARENTS are going to want whats best for THEIR CHILD..duh.

 

You're both adults here, I wouldnt like him sharing personal arguments or discussions with his parents, of all people. That's something for you two to agree on.

 

It just seems like alot of rushing on things here.....rushing to move in together, with no real discussion...engagement talk which has led to walking on eggshells and needs/expectations not being met(on either end)....

 

I really hope your able to find some resolution here. One more thing, you do have the power to make your own decisions and assert control over your own actions here...I agree with Batya in the sense that your doing alot of "victimizing" here....you can voice your opinion to him, and you can always move out whenever you want too....it's not too late, although you mention it as if it's not an option.

[luv2bfit]

I know that bothered me that he said he mentioned to his parents, but whatever if he did or is just saying that fine. He's very close to them and doesn't have a lot of super close guy friends that would care to hear silly details like that, so maybe he felt he could only vent to them. He's an only child. Either way I've seen them recently (last weeknd) made them dinner when they were over so they didn't act weird, or anything. They like me alot.

 

As for what I plan to do.. Since I know now he already has the item, I plan to wait until next year January 1, 2011 lol... And if he hasn't done it by then, I will move out. Won't even discuss it, just leave. He already knows that living together was to eventually lead to engagement then marriage, so after living with me for just over 1 year by then (together total over 1.5 years) He's not going to do it, if he hasn't by then. So I'd just leave (that's my internal time line I have set for this now). No more talk until on my part.

[FreedomRing]

I'm sure he will be doing it very soon as the cat is already out of the bag.

 

I hope things happen as you want them to!

[luv2bfit]

Thanks very much.. I hope so. I think the lesson I'd have to share on this one is COMMUNICATE. I tip-toed around this subject because I didn't want to pressure him, I didn't want to feel like I had to bring it up, I just wanted him to know we love each other to death and that I just wanted to be that committed to him. But obviously I was feeling anxious and unclear about it, I should have been more direct and I should have been more clear about what I would like or not like. Poor guy is probably thinking he needs to do this huge elaborate ordeal with some big expensive rock and that is NOT the case with me. He knows I'm not like that.... But I know he just wants it to be special & perfect for me. I wish I told him I cared more about us getting to that stage than waiting because it had to be expensive & elaborate. It doesn't to me. Poor guy probably felt all stressed thinking about it and didn't quite know how to do it so that he can WOW me.. aww

[oldenoughtoknow]

I think it would be helpful for posters to read one of luv2bfit's previous posts.

 

 

 

Yes, like most relationships, this is a pretty deep, convoluted matrix. The guy in question definitely sounds OCD, and a perfectionist, and a bit controlling - which he usually seems to try to keep in check. AND, he's in law enforcement. These traits usually go hand in hand with people who choose this profession. He sees, on a firsthand and daily basis, what happens in bars, unwanted advances, brawls, ruffies, date rape, etc. He's used to being in charge and in control of most situations - often his life depends on it. Doesn't that shed a different lite on things?

 

Luv2bfit, I get the feeling that you are waking up to certain issues as your relationship enters the "post-honeymoon stage," and you're choosing to dwell on the thought of "wait a minute, what happened to the wedding?" I think you really need to do some soul searching and decide, before anything else, if this is the type of person you want to live the rest of your life with. Once you get your head around his idiosyncrasies and understand why he does certain things in certain ways and once you're really comfortable with that, I think the anxiety surrounding this delayed proposal won't be much of an issue. "Everyone" you know thinks he should have proposed by now - if you were absolutely certain of the strength of your relationship, "everyone's" opinion wouldn't mean squat.

 

I think there may be more fundamental issues that need to be put to rest here first...

[luv2bfit]

Ohh my you are soo soo right Funny you said this Richpart, I literally just got off the phone with him and I was completely frustrated and venting that I was soo worked up about why the relationship had not yet progressed to that, when I've been missing the whole time that we DO have issues that need to be ironed out. The house cleaning issue I had NO idea he was feeling, that he actually asked his guy friend how many times his girlfriend cleans their house.. R you kidding me??????? I told him WHY on earth couldn't you sit me down and talk to me like a mature adult, tell me what your expectations are for a household as far as cleaning and how we should have it done? I'm VERY easygoing... I even told him if you want me to take over laundry duty or dishes duty permanently I will ! We can divide it up, or we can do it together.. We can set 1 Sunday every month if we want to make it a cleaning day and do the house top to bottom? Let's TALK about it.

And the going out with my friends issue, he goes back and forth.. First bars are NOT ok for committed girls... Then they are, but not in excess.. If he's working night shift its' OK, but not if I choose to do it EVERY time?

OMG.. I knew these things were boiling, but he hasn't been very vocal about them to the point of me thinking it was a major issue. The house cleaning has hit me like a brick wall, I had no idea it was bothering him.

I told him that he's got me completely worried that he has a checklist and expectations that he feels someone needs to fill... It's not "let's figure this out together" .. It's "You should be doing x, y and z..."

 

This is VERY worrysome... Alot of his past long-terms are making MUCH more sense to me now. He is 35 this year and only lived with ONE person for maybe 6 months. He was engaged back in 2002, he met a woman and they dated for 8 months but only stayed on weekends. He proposed and she moved in. He told me within 2 months he asked for the ring back... He said she stopped working as much, she didn't do anything around the house, never cooked, etc. etc. OMG now this is kind of making sense here. She MAY have very well been lazy.... But did he communicate his needs? And were they reasonable? He said he did tell her numerous times but she wouldn't listen and continued to do nothing. Since her, he has not lived with anyone. He has been in 3 other long terms since then, he ended all 3 of them and none progressed to anything (moving in, engagement ) nothing. One he ended it because she didn't work (her family was very wealthy), the next one he ended because he couldn't get over her past and religion (she was christian and slept with 35 men by age 23) and the last one was a school teacher, their chemistry wasn't very good/sex life.

 

So there you have it.. OMG I'm soooooo confused right now. This whole thread has opened my eyes and scared me Thank you all for listening and helping tho..

[FreedomRing]

Oh no rich..I agree with you. His traits are VERY much characteristic of someone in law enforcement, and a perfectionist. I see that much for sure! There is no way I could ever be with a cop in a serious relationship(I dated a few), bc most are wired just that way! Doesn't work for me. They often have very tulmultuous relationships as well....takes a certaind kind of woman. I personally don't agree with the way he is treating her "policing" her and the relationship...what she can do vs. what she can't, who she should be hanging out with, what she should be doing around the house.....wouldn't work for me personally at all.

 

But the OP is fixated on the ring and marriage, and ultimately the recent events have eluded that what she wants *,may* be around the corner......if thats what she wants, then I'm just wishing her happiness.....but I definitely agree some other things need to be re-assessed, if it were me.

[luv2bfit]

Freedom Ring, I just posted before you did... I do agree It's opened my eyes to things, its so sad it took this to open them.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

After reading this and the last post I would say that this guy has major control issues and he has very passive aggressive tendencies. He shows his displeasure when you don't do as he says by turning cold on you. This whole issue with all the hints about engagement..that is very passive aggressive behaviour...dangling carrots and then yanking them away. That is typical of a controlling, manipulative person. If you think it is bad now...if you marry this guy it will be much much worse. He monitors everything you do, how you do laundry, how you do things in the kitchen etc. I noticed that you mentioned that over time you do adapt to his methods. That is pretty classic of a person who is being controlled. The controller manipulates the situation and creates a "walking on eggshells" dynamic so that the other person eventually caves in. While your ex may have been overt in his control and abuse, this guy is a lot more clever and cunning about it. It is happening over time. His training as a police officer has helped him be able to have his way by subtle pressure and making someone uncomfortable. I really think you need to re-think this relationship because it sounds to me that over time you will lose your individuality and become a clone of him, doing whatever and however he wants.

[luv2bfit]

I do see alot of this in him... But on the flip side he is one of the most loving/caring/supportive men you could ever imagine. He's so loving/gentle/affectionate.. Daily tells me he loves me, missing me, thinking about me... He does encourage me to have fun with friends/do what I enjoy.. He just hates bars. However, at times I have gone and he has gone quiet and other times he tells me he loves me and have fun and seems fine.

He seems to genuinely stop being so pushy with things when he sees that it upsets me or that I feel controlled and can't be myself. I show him that I try to compromise for the relationship, yet when I am just living my life/being me for example going to a bar when he's at work.. It is for my happiness, not to be detrimental to the relationship or my health, etc. (because I don't drink).

I don't even spend money when I go! I drive and my girlfriend will chip in for gas and pay for parking.

 

With the house chores and idosyncricies I've told him it's just totally new to me as my parents were very lax and I've never grown up with perfectionism type of behaviour. He admits that he HAS... His father was a deputy sheriff and his mother was a clean freak, so he is an only child and has had daily chores since he was 15. His mother has made him adapt to most of these habits (wiping the shower head down after every shower, putting chicken guts from the pot in the freezer until garbage day, not using plastic milk containers- only cardboard, etc.) He admits this is all learned behaviour.

I've told him this is completely foreign to me and overboard because I have never lived this way with family or the 2 long term bf's that I have lived with.

 

He says that he asks me to do things, but if I forget or chose not to he won't worry about it. He never gets angry, he just politely asks me to do things, or offers his ways of living to me. I find it overboard, but I don't ever see him get angry if I don't do things his way.

It does still alarm me however, because it scares me that one day it WILL become like a prison with more and more requests. Or one day, WILL he start getting angry if I don't do what he asks. It's completely hard to say.

The best way I can describe his personality is an "all work, no play" kind of person.... He works a 12-14 hour shift, comes home will cut grass or cook dinner (or I do-whoever is home first), hang with me for a bit, up the next morning at 6am to go for dayshift and makes my lunch every single morning for me with the blender ready for my protein shake and the toaster out ready for me to put my toast in, etc.

That's just how he is on a daily basis... Like clockwork and everything is always in order.

When we didn't live together, every single morning and I mean EVERY morning, he was at my parent's house at 7:15am warming up my car for me in the winter, brushing the snow off it and had my Tea and bagel ready for me with my lunch he made at his house for me in a cooler and all.

He did that for like 4-5 months straight before I moved in lol and still continues to do so !

So in a way his personality is a GIFT.. and other ways could be a nightmare if he has expectations that *I* need to fill..

 

Another example, last weekend he borrowed my dad's trunk to pick-up a bunch of shrubs & trees to do some landscaping at our house and he returned my dad's truck with a case of beer to thank him and had completely vacumned the entire cabin to make sure he didn't leave a speck of dirt in the back of it. My dad was like, omg he didn't have to do that. It was no trouble really, I didn't need the truck for a few hours, no big deal.

 

I almost feel bad for him, that he HAS this need to be perfect, do things perfectly, act perfect, all the time... He doesn't seem to have fun in life.. I'm the most fun he has

[savagegirl]

Wow he seems to be so extreme in the things he does. It's amazing what he does for you. He sounds like a really thoughtful guy and that is a really great quality. Can you have fun with him though? Is it important enough to you to have a guy you can have fun with and can make you laugh? These things are important too, depending of course on what you want.

I still say to give the relationship more time. I don't think you guys are ready to be engaged yet seeing as how you are worried about how controlling he may become later on. And it will be so much harder to get out if you are married to him you know?

[luv2bfit]

Thanks SavageGirl.. You hit the nail on the head.... What he does is sweet/thoughtful, he's amazing.. I've told him, "baby if you're tired one morning, just sleep in and I can get my lunch ready it's no biggie" But Nope... Not once.. Every morning he's getting it all ready putting it in my car for me. Still after 1 yr/3 months together. I'm training for this fitness show, if he's home when I get home from work he gets my protein shake ready, after workout snack, and water bottle all at the door ready for me when I come downstairs with my gym bag. He's SO on top of everything, that I don't think he's human sometimes.

We've been busy these days, but when we had quiet nights at home he used to run me a bubble bath with candles and he actually would wash my entire body with a loofah and even shampoo my hair in the tub sitting with me. He's sooo romantic Just a really wonderful guy, it is just VERY hard for me sometimes because I'm so laid back that his behaviour does come accross controlling at times. I don't even think he means to be, he just is. His perfectionsim, in ways that I mentioned is also a big bonus sometimes. I think it may just take a lot of communication and patience on both our parts to make this work... So more time together is needed. It's probably good all this came up now, because we are talking about it and understanding each other better.

 

My only concern is control. I left my ex-fiance because he was controlling. BAD controlling.. Horrible temper, jealousy.. etc. I've posted before about that relationship, he was abusive and eventually physically abusive then I left for good.

I'm fearful of controlling behaviour becoming *too controlling* because of what I went through. In some ways, my bf is NOTHING like my ex... and in other ways (house chores, etc.) he's WORSE than my ex. So at this point, it's too early to really tell how it will all play out. When I met my ex, he was charming sweet, buying me gifts, I was head over heels. After about 8-9 months he got worse and worse. We all know that controlling/manipulative people go through this sweet cycle, and it is often to mask the Dr. Jekyl that is about to come out when they know they *have* you. I DON'T want that to happen to me again.

 

To answer your question, we do laugh... But it really takes me to bring that out in him. He's serious most of the time, it often takes me letting lose for him to follow. I've told him he needs to enjoy life a little more, were only here once!

[oldenoughtoknow]

Well, luv2bfit, it sounds like you love him. The question is, can you live with him? That's a decision only you can make.

 

BTW, I'm glad you're focusing on the real issues at hand. A proposal just doesn't seem that important anymore, does it?

[luv2bfit]

Well, luv2bfit, it sounds like you love him. The question is, can you live with him? That's a decision only you can make.

 

BTW, I'm glad you're focusing on the real issues at hand. A proposal just doesn't seem that important anymore, does it?

 

You're totally right... No matter how much you love someone, there's a lot more to spending a life with that person. It opened my eyes to looking at compatibility, sorting out issues, making sure we can compromise... Really opened my eyes to taking more time to make SURE we can work through these issues, rather than getting wrapped up in the fairy tale part of it all.

But to be honest, I've never been this serious about spending my life with someone before... I've been in long-terms, lived with 2 bf's..dated lots... I'm 28 and never quite saw myself at the point where I would really consider taking that leap of faith. This time I am.. I just need to take a little more time and REALLY make sure.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Be very very very careful...because although he does all this wonderful stuff for you...that too is in the realm of possessive and controlling. He is way over the top in the wonderful stuff he is doing. Control freaks can often look very attentive running around doing stuff for the other person...but there is an element of manipulation and control to it. If it is too good to be true it usually is. He has a very controlling "my way or the highway" type of behaviour and all the nice extras he is doing for you every single time is very overboard. Over time you might not see that as wonderful you might end up feeling smothered.

 

Also, why do you have to conform to HIS standards which HE grew up with. Why isn't there a happy medium. Why can't he learn to realize that nothing drastic is going to happen if you don't wipe the shower after each use. Why can't he learn to realize that if you throw pieces of chicken in the garbage for a few days until garbage day you are not all of a sudden going to get bugs (unless it is aways blazing hot in your kitchen). I have thrown plenty of chicken bits (not raw) etc in the garbage and left it for a week without getting any bugs.

[FreedomRing]

Agree with this. Luv- of course any woman would love that kind of attention initially, but over time, I think some women(like myself) would kinda be put off by that perfectionist behavior and would want to get to the root of why he goes to such an extreme. I didn't want to be a negative nancy, but some of those "acts of kindness" trouble me.....if you love it, thats all that counts, but I would much rather be with the guy who might throw his jacket on the back of the couch and leave a towel on the doorknob for a day or whatever, and sit and giggle with me about something silly, ya know?

 

CAD is right that most of those subtle "niceties" have an underlying element of control factored in.....and I think only now, you're beginning to see how deep it does run.

 

I really do hope you take your time to think about wants/needs/compatibilities prior to engagement.

[luv2bfit]

I do agree totally.. I've told him before he needs to learn to enjoy life a little more... Yes, there are always things that need to be done around the house, in life, etc. But you have to remember to stop once in awhile and have fun, laugh, do something you enjoy. He's soooo hardworking and I can only imagine it is from a young age that his parent's made him do chores and basically have a "job" since 15. I grew up way more laid back, my family let me just be a kid. I feel bad for him in a way, because I think that's why he is the way he is. His parents were way too hard on him.

 

He hasn't gotten angry with me if I don't do any of these daily things around the house, but I was just concerned that he might become like a drill sargeant because of how many small petty things he does on a daily basis.

I do think he has a perfectionist type of personality, but he does back down and I think that if he honestly loves me and wants a life with me he would learn to control his behaviour or at least be quiet about it if something is not done to his standards. He knows I'm very head strong about my happiness, freedom, not feeling controlled... SO he knows it would be a waste of his time to propose, marry me, etc. if he intends to control me cause he knows it won't fly with me.

Guess I just have to watch.. I do agree though, that life is about having fun with the person you love.. You have to be able to laugh through life together!