lavenderdove Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Honey, there is no reason on earth for you to waste your good life, good intentions, kind heart and desire to help on someone like this. She beats you up then goes out clubbing and flirting up other guys? Really, you are not seeing her for who she is. People like this can cry massive crocodile tears, but they are all about not getting her own way and manipulating other people. If she is so sad, why on earth is she in a club. And last time i checked, guys are just not going to hit on women who are actively weeping, so that is a crock she is telling you. This is extremely manipulative behavior, where on the one hand she is telling a story to try to make you jealous (guys hitting on her) and at the same time make you feel guilty and sympathethic (look what you did, you made me cry). Meanwhile, what she is really doing is out partying at a club drinking it up and flirting with other guys. Heartbroken people don't go out clubbing. I don't see any 'deep struggling' with her issues here, i see a very skilled attempt to manipulate you into ignoring her truly bad behavior and turning you into the bad guy when it is she who is behaving very badly. Please don't fall for this. Call a counselor on Monday morning and make an appt. to talk about this and get their opinion of the relationship (without her with you). You need to take a big step back and protect yourself, as she could indeed seriously injure you in a future attack, or make false allegations that you attacked her if she gets really mad and wants to punish you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 You have not broken up with her completely because you are still interacting with her - that is not a termination of a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agent1607307371 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 She says SHE is not sure about getting back together after this. The good thing is that that should make your ability to stay out of a relationship with her much easier. I would just end any contact with her. She's not logical and you can't communicate with people like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadence44 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Agree with everyone in this thread. Afterdinnermint, you're trying so hard to make her into this perfect individual who just has a few issues she needs to work on and then things will be great. But in reality, this is a big problem for her. Her family even warned you about it, for pete's sake. This means it is ingrained deeply and unlikely to change. Would you want to raise children with her? Chances are that if she can abuse you, she can abuse children too. I think growing up in your family has affected you in terms of your partner selection. You say there's something special about her; consider that people are drawn to others who push their buttons in regards to childhood issues. It isn't healthy for YOU that you were drawn to her, got in a relationship with her and are still talking to her, no matter how convinced you are that she's truly a good person. Since you do show all the signs of co-dependency and are still talking to her and letting her continue to manipulate you, I'll speak to that side of you - If you are willing to put her before your needs, have you considered that the kindest thing to do for her might be to unequivocally show her that her actions have real consequences by your dumping her and not looking back? It's the lesson she needs to learn and perhaps it will make you feel better about breaking up with her if you realize that though it is difficult, it is actually in both of your best interests to do so. Any real change on her part is going to take years of hard work, and that's only if she is willing to work on it for herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Thanks again Yes, the whole clubbing scenario is a great one - I didn't even bother raising the obvious flaws. Honestly, I believe both are true, as she was out for 6+ hours - either way, it doesn't really matter - she wasn't calling me realising the error of her ways. I haven't replied to her last message which was designed to push my buttons. I don't intend to reply to anything short of some meaningful desire to fix herself. How very very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I don't intend to reply to anything short of some meaningful desire to fix herself. I understand why you say that but it really falls way short of what you need to do for your own safety and peace of mind. You still haven't really accepted the fact that this woman is too toxic to be with any time soon - or ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 About partner selection, when we first were going out there was NONE of this - which I have later learned is classic behaviour. It only started 3 months, or maybe even 4 months in. So, one big fight in 4 months I was willing to keep going you know? We then started going to counselling because we realised that one big fight was not healthy. I thought that was a good thing. Honestly the counselling doesnt seem to be helping (well, maybe that's not fair - it has helped a bit) as I think she needs a psychiatrist instead. She said some stuff today about her previous relationships that I have never heard and it seems like there is a lot more that she wants to tell me but she says she doesn't feel "safe/secure" to say it. I feel sorry for her that she hasn't told any of her friends about this stuff and they have no idea. I'm sure I'll walk around with a big target on my back now for being "the bad guy" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 She said some stuff today about her previous relationships that I have never heard and it seems like there is a lot more that she wants to tell me but she says she doesn't feel "safe/secure" to say it.Even if she has had bad past relationships that is no reason to hit and abuse you. And the chances are the past relationships were bad because she treated those men the same way she treats you. Her own family say she has problems and I bet she has had them before she even had a relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I agree completely I know she has a rocky relationship with her Dad and her first relationship there was some physical violence against her. From there, the next guy cheated on her, and the next one moved to another country for work, and then the one before me was allegedly abusive as well (although for this one it sounds like he may have been going through some stuff like me - ie; trying to get OUT of situations) I think I have probably copped the worst of it, but I am definitely not the first. Yes, she admits that she was an angry person before she met her first boyfriend and interestingly today said she feels "broken". I've never heard her admit that sort of thing before I hear exactly what you are all saying about my communication and feelings towards her, it's only day 1 so hasn't really sunken in. And, I guess if I'm honest, I probably don't want it to due to the emotional attachment. I realise that my "fixing" type mentality is not a good long-term strategy. I told her explicitly that I could never have children with her while she exhibited this sort of behaviour as I couldn't subject my own kids to this. She agreed and that's why she was keen to sort it out through counselling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Something else I wanted to say was that I have been writing down the dates of our fights and they have almost all occurred within the 14th and 20th of the last 4-5 months. I started to wonder if there is some hormonal connection to this??? I really wonder if she had some drugs whether some of the anxiety would go away,etc. Yes..I'm trying to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Stop trying to fix her. Start fixing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I didnt reply to her last message and she's just sent me one saying that she's been getting "tons of messages from guys" she doesn't know on facebook wanting to be her friend and she just thought I should know We talked about sharing stuff after all this blew up after he looking at my Facebook. I find the message extremely hurtful and obviously malicious. She is incredibly cruel. No, I won't respond. It is just to bait me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 People with these deep-rooted emotional issues tend to twist the blame around no matter how badly they behaved. Even if they know they are wrong they will never publicly acknowledge it...they will simply try to find a scapegoat..usually the person who loves them and bends over backwards for them becomes their scapegoat. For them it is all about power and control....dumping a person like that means they feel out of control so they will re-write history and act like they did the dumping. People with these type of emotional problems are constantly re-writing history to make themselves look in control when the reality is they lack self-control. For them it is all about the illusion of being in control even though their raging, blaming actions show them to be very far out of control. She will be like this at 45, at 65 and at 85...this is deep-rooted emotionally dysfuncitonal behaviour and they typically never acknowledge it outwardly because that would ruin the "in control" image they are trying to portray to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I didnt reply to her last message and she's just sent me one saying that she's been getting "tons of messages from guys" she doesn't know on facebook wanting to be her friend and she just thought I should know We talked about sharing stuff after all this blew up after he looking at my Facebook. I find the message extremely hurtful and obviously malicious. She is incredibly cruel. No, I won't respond. It is just to bait me. That's all part and parcel with this kind of personality defect...cruelty as a way to show control because the reality is, the more cruel they are, the more they realize they are out of control...it is a twisted logic in their mind that cruelty re-establishes control when in reality it makes the other person completely lose respect for them. It is a game...she is trying to make you so fearful that you will grovel at her feet. It is all about power and control. When you cave in that gives them the invincible feeling that they can do anything to you and you will take it. People like that are very very damaged and will do anything to gain power...it is all about power, control and domination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agent1607307371 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 She said some stuff today about her previous relationships that I have never heard and it seems like there is a lot more that she wants to tell me but she says she doesn't feel "safe/secure" to say it.. I bet she did. This is really obvious manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I feel like such a fool and so sad and betrayed. The worst part is I don't think it's going to get better in a hurry - I'm sure she will continue to send me messages which will get worse and probably more graphic as time goes on to raise my attention. She sent another few in the last few minutes clearly showing that her hitting me was MY FAULT. It's quite staggering. The more messages she sends, the easier it is to see what some people are saying here. I know that this will mess with me for some time - letting someone so so deep and they were an intruder the whole time. It's quite depressing and confusing as it seemed so magical and real. I'm sure parts of it were, and the rest was unconscious trickery. I wish it could all go away, but that's a fools dream by the looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Her attempts at manipulation are so lame a child could see through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quirky Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Has she got a very troubled background? Abuse (physical, sexual, emotional) or abandonment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I know her parents cut her down emotionally a LOT as a child, and still do. She feels like she was never good enough, especially for her father, while her mother is quite strange (some issue, but don't know what - prone to anger to get attention of the distant father I think) It seems like she was physically abused in her first relationship - she said today the guy threatened to kill her after someone was interested in her at her work and began choking her until she screamed and police came. Strangely though she said that this person "is/was my soulmate". THis is about 8-10 years ago and I wouldn't have such kind words for someone who did that to me... From her message today she said she had more to tell me but couldn't - I dont know whether there is more serious stuff, but she did say that she hasn't told anyone except her first boyfriend so maybe there is something else. Part of me would really like to sit down and hear what it is, but I guess it's too late for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Caught myself - I do have kind words about her and she hit me. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 The problem with someone like this is that you can never believe anything they say. So her talk about her first boyfriend abusing her is highly suspect - she will probably be saying the same thing about you if she isn't already. Her saying she has more to tell you but couldn't is an attempt to make you feel sorry for her and contact her to talk.Then she will blame everyone else but herself for her actions Don't fall for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Yes - whenever she was raging (and at other times) I would say that this isn't normal and my other relationships have never been like this. She would say, "neither have mine" (although she did say the last guy did some stuff, but I think it was definitely started by her) For her today to turn around completely and say the guy who really understands her and is still "a big part of her life" (although hasn't seen her for years) was choking her was a bit of a shock. She obviously hasn't been keeping track of her own stories. She threatened to tell everyone that I was abusive and ruin my "brand which is nothing but a sneaky facade". That's when I thought about lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Did you record any of her abuse on your phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Yes - whenever she was raging (and at other times) I would say that this isn't normal and my other relationships have never been like this. She would say, "neither have mine" (although she did say the last guy did some stuff, but I think it was definitely started by her) For her today to turn around completely and say the guy who really understands her and is still "a big part of her life" (although hasn't seen her for years) was choking her was a bit of a shock. She obviously hasn't been keeping track of her own stories. She threatened to tell everyone that I was abusive and ruin my "brand which is nothing but a sneaky facade". That's when I thought about lawyers. One thing about people with Borderline Personality Disorder (or whatever this behaviour pattern is called) is that they lie through their teeth and their stories keep getting shifted around. They can have one account of what happened one day and say something completely different the next day and when you call them out on their inconsistency they either back pedal or change the subject. Also, if you are not caving in to their manipulations they up the ante like your gf is doing. They keep trying every which way to get you to cave...their viciousness and lies knows no bounds when you start defying them and not caving in to their manipulation and abuse. They try sweet talk, they try nastiness, they try guilt tripping, they try tears, they try acting like a martyr etc. What you are seeing now is the real her...the ugliness of someone with BPD who is not getting her way and yes, it is very mind boggling and surreal to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahara56 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Wow. I feel horrible. For her and me, and what I thought was "us". Yes, I recorded some of her raging on my phone but not the worst parts. She also took 3x running battering rams with her shoulder at my main door - I managed to record the door moving a few seconds after the last one and her screaming and yelling outside. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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