Don't know what to do anymore...

[MH4518]

I think she should know how you feel, she should know that you are ready to live, that might be a wake up call for her.

 

I've told her a couple times, and that's why we went to the counselor. The counselors advice so far was for me to limit the talk about leaving so she would feel more secure and safe. And she told her that even if she can't have penetration there are still other things she needs to do. That hasn't really happened.

 

I haven't mentioned it in a month or so, but it's all I think about. I find myself fantasizing about dating other girls all the time. But I'm terrified that if we end up divorced they won't want anything to do with me and then I'll be stuck. That's why I want to make sure that if this ends, it's for the right reasons and not because I just want something different.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You are extrapolating your issues with it and making an assumption that the situation is exactly the same. It is not...while yours was probably a sexual issue, hers goes way deeper. If you look at the link I posted in a post above you will see that there can be many causes for this so while your situation may be due to one cause, her same issue can be due to a completely different root cause, namely her psychological issues. What you are talking about with respect to control has to do with control during sex...what I am talking about regarding her issues with control have to do with wanting to control the relationship overall and how the OP conducts every aspect of his life. She is micro-managing his life in general like he is a child, and scolds him...so this is my point about your situation being very very different from what is going on here. Same symptom, different root cause...just like nausea and vomitting could signify the stomach flu or something more serious.

[Sparkly Eyes]

You DON'T know that! Just because she is uptight, it doesn't mean that it is directly related to her problem. There are many uptight, abusive controlling women that have vaginas as wide as hallways and can welcome any man. I just think it's very unfair of you to assume this is what is causing her problem when you don't really know her or other aspects of her life or genetics etc...I believe that for the time being and without having any opinion of professionals on her case, we should separate these two issues from each other.

 

The main issue here is her disregard for her partner's feelings...I mean yes, she might have problem with intercourse, but she could please him orally or make him feel wanted/attractive or at least, not be so bossy or controlling. These, we can blame her for and give credit to the guy for not wanting to be with her.

[DN]

Mod Note: please do not turn this thread into an argument but make your points without personal comments.

[vacek]

MH, first of all, I really sorry that you're going through this, but I can relate to your situation as I was the one who was diagnosed with the same condition. My story is kinda similar to yours; I hadn't had sex with my husband until we got married. Turned out, that our "first night" became a real nightmare. I was a virgin and I felt so much pain, that I couldn't really feel anything else. After that, every time we had sex, all I felt was the pain, so eventually our sexual intercouses became rare and rare until we stopped having sex completely for almost 3 years, before we actually got divorced. During those "non-sexual years" we started constantly fighting and blaming each other, so finally we decided to go the separate ways. After we divorced, I met another guy and to my huge surprise, sex with him was amazing and I didn't feel any of that pain that I used to feel with my ex-husband. So I think that was more of psychological thing. I read somewhere that sex is in our head

Funny, but my relationship with already ex-husband actually started becoming more better now, after we divorced, because finally we started communicating with each other without blaming.

[MH4518]

Ok... so say I do decide that I need to leave. How do I know if I've done enough? I set a date that things have to get better by (Next March - My Birthday)... but I honestly don't know that I want to wait that long now... but at the same time I'm terrified that if I give up I'm making a huge mistake...

[DN]

Why next March?

[MH4518]

Why next March?

 

Couple reasons: I'm really busy with work from about the end of July until Spring. Also, I figured that was far enough out that if I still felt that way then, I would be sure it wasn't just some fleeting notion that I was having. Other than that it was kind of a random date I just picked.

[DN]

OK - but she should know you are going to leave unless things improve

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

Vaginismus is definitely perpetuated by psychological issues. While it is a physical condition, it is quite a trap, so to speak. The natural fear and disappointment of not being able to have sex often exacerbates the condition. Since the OP's wife appears to have OCD and control issues, CAD is not wrong in linking the two. This is not an indictment against women with vaginismus, merely an observation not to take personal.

 

While I feel for the OP's wife in her emotional state, there has to be something said for trying and moving forward. We owe it to our partners, assuming we truly love them, to do everything possible to make ourselves healthy and a functional half of the relationship. It appears she has just decided to let things get out of control, leaving him helpless and nowhere.

 

I give you credit for not cheating when you have the urge. I hope you continue that line of thinking. Hopefully things improve, if not, you're definitely in a position to free yourself.

[MH4518]

I think my biggest sticking point is that I think my wife is a genuinely nice person. She's smart, she cares about other people, and she is a good person. I really don't want to hurt her. However, she doesn't seem to be as caring about me as she is about other people.

 

I also can't get her to admit she may have a problem with OCD. Every time I mention it she just says I'm over-reacting and that the real issue is that I just don't have it together as much as she does.

 

I'm also afraid that I've 'already got 1 foot out the door' as the counselor put it. I think I want to work on the relationship, but I'm not sure. I feel like I'm supposed to work on it, but I'm afraid that deep down (or perhaps not so deep) I really don't want it to work. I'm afraid that I'd rather just move on; but that absolutely terrifies me at this point.

 

Like I said before, I can't stop thinking about other girls anymore either. I've got a list of 3-4 that I'd love to go on a date with, and I have all these plans.... but then it keeps coming back to the fact that I'm obviously married and that's just not going to work. This really bothers me. I obviously can't leave the marriage because of someone else. If I leave, I have to leave because of the issues that aren't fixable.

 

Sorry for the rant again. Just had a rough night again. Apparently I sat the pizza box on the wrong counter when I was getting something to eat. (I only wish I were joking)

[DN]

Apparently I sat the pizza box on the wrong counter when I was getting something to eat. (I only wish I were joking)

Look, you have to get out of this situation. This is ridiculous and no matter how caring she is about other people you are allowing her to make her problems your problems and that will never work.

 

This is a form of mental abuse and it will literally drive you over the edge. For the sake of your sanity get out. You are exhibiting the first signs of Stockholm syndrome.

[lavenderdove]

She sounds like a troubled person on many levels, and not suitable for marriage (unless she recognizes the depths of her problems and the effects it is having on her partner and does make a change in herself).

 

If you're already scoping out potential new dates, i think its basically over, and you're just squeamish about leaving. Frankly, there is no easy way to leave a marriage as there will be anger, pain, financial issues to disentangle etc. But if you are going to do it, you definitely should do it NOW before you actually do stray or she gets wind that you're thinking about other women, or she'll feel doubly betrayed.

 

It is best to just get it out in the open, that it isn't working out for you and multiple levels, and perhaps you need to use your marriage counseling sessions to help you break up amicably (as possible). Therapists are experienced at helping people work thru the decision to divorce if they can't get along or one person really wants out.

 

Don't waste any more of your time if you think you are going to go. If you haven't consummated the marriage, then you might be eligible for an annulment in short order.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

This is quite telling. I don't get the sense that you really want it to work, either. It is good that you admire her and don't want to destroy her, but you don't seem to love her. I can't say I blame you, she sounds very troubled.

 

I would bring your thoughts to her immediately... it is wrong to be thinking of going on dates with other women like this. Not fair for anyone to stay in this situation unless both parties really work hard and don't let up.

 

I can't see her doing that, from what you're saying.

[SnowFox]

Given your age and the fact that there are no children involved, I think its reasonable to divorce.

 

For any relationship to work, both people have to be willing to put effort to resolving problems. I don't get the sense that your wife is this type of person.

 

No one can guarantee you that you'll find a better relationship than this one in the future, but from everything you've written here, and the fact that you are 26, the odds are in your favor I believe.

[MH4518]

Well, it's been about a month since I first posted this. The month was all in all pretty good, and we seemed to get along about 80% of the time. Back in June our counselor told me to try and make my wife feel safer and not talk about splitting up, and see if that would help the vaginismus.

 

I've tried it, and have gone out of my way to get along with her. And, we've gotten along better (although most of that seems to be because I just bottled a bunch of stuff up and took it). But, the sex still hasn't changed. It's still maybe, at most once every other week that we do anything at all, and we've made no process on actual sex either. I have to make the move every single time, and it's to the point that I feel guilty because I know she doesn't want to do it. It seems like if I don't push her and push her she won't make the moves on her own.

 

I think I'm about to just throw in the towel and ask for a divorce, or possibly an annulment since the marriage still hasn't been consumated.

 

Our 3 year anniversary is coming up, and it's starting to dawn on me that this has gone on long enough. If I had been told at the beginning of this marriage that there was a chance we could never have sex I don't think i would have gone through with it. I don't think many people would. I'm already second guessing the 3 years we've been married (as well as the 7 we've been together total.) I don't want to look back in 10 years and b right where I am now. Does that seem reasonable?

 

I'm a fairly successful guy, and I'm pretty sure I could land on my feet, but I'm still obviously terrified that I'm making a bad choice. She went out of town this weekend and I really enjoyed being alone. I'm dreading her coming back tonight, and that's a pretty crappy feeling. I haven't decided to go for it yet, but I'm getting really close I think.

 

Sorry I'm rambling here, just really confused.

 

Thanks.

[DN]

I think the annulment may be the easiest route.

[the_architect]

The moderator may have given you some good advice, I'm curious if you've taken any steps in that direction, or if you're still trying to work it out? I find myself to be in nearly the same situation: almost 3 years of marriage, 5 1/2 years in a relationship, a somewhat stubborn wife (minus the OCD, but with similar control issues) with Vaginismus, not getting much of anything apart from bi-monthly oral, and a lot of the same issues going through my head. Going through your post has been a great help, and I'd just like to know if you've jumped off the fence yet.