Up down, all around, it's useless.. no.. I'm useless

[turnera]

No worries, I was just teasing you.

 

And I know I'm blunt; I get a lot of gaff for it. But after 50 years, I've observed people and decided that too many of us never get 'truth' from anyone. No one wants to face another person and give them anything but platitudes. In this PC world, we have become SO careful about not saying anything to offend anyone, it just drives me crazy!

 

I was at a homeowner's meeting once and a guy stood up and said "So and so won't mow his yard; what are you going to do about it?" (to the Board); I stood up and said "Why don't you just go over to his house and ask him if he needs help? There may be some problem he's having like bad health." I practically got booed out of the room. Heaven forbid we just speak to each other.

 

Did you ever read Atlas Shrugged? I think you would like it. Awesome awesome book about people who 'do' (like you), and people who don't, but 'take.' It's scary, because my mom told me 30 years ago that it was going to come true, where the takers start taking more and more and expect the doers to keep on doing so they can keep on taking, until one day the doers just QUIT. Portrait of America today.

[startinover]

Well I definitely appreciate boldness and honesty, even if the topic is me. Problem was I always took things personally. Now I try to take things at face value, and since I don't let people walk all over me, I can see if a criticism or perspective is something I'm able to adjust, or if I'm not going to budge.

 

Wow, I know people can be really lame, but I'm REALLY surprised you got booed out of the room. Shows what kind of society we have. Wonder if it was like that long ago. People always want other people to do things for them, and barely lift a finger themselves.

 

I like your perspective of "doers and takers". I never looked at things quite like that. I want to meet more doers. I've had enough of takers lol.

 

Sounds like a book I'd want to read, thanks.

[turnera]

Are you doing ok? I wanted to tell you yesterday but forgot that, the high, the good feelings, the enthusiasm you were experiencing...it's common for you to go through big, HUGE dips in feelings. One day you're on top of the world, after 'discovering' this truth as you did, and the next you can be crashing again and ready to give up. Just remember that neither of those emotions is where you want to be - you want to be logical, steady, and steadfast in your determination to educate yourself and better yourself. The rest will fall by the wayside, as you do, and the dips will recede as well. So if you wake up feeling down, that's understandable. You have 30 years of thought patterns to change.

 

Have you ever read the book Healing The Shame That Binds You? It's an AWESOME book about how our childhood creates thought patterns in us that we carry into adulthood, and that it is in our power to CHANGE them to healthy ones, now that we are adults and capable of protecting ourselves.

[startinover]

You must be like a prophet or a mindreader or something lol. I woke up this morning not feeling so hot. I realized I have 2 parties I can go to this weekend, and I don't want to go to any of them. But I don't feel like going to them because I know I will see people that saw me at my worst, and I don't want to face them. I've gotten better since then, but I messed up multiple times around them and their patience or appreciation for me is gone. Others care, but I feel like it might be better to avoid it all at this point.

 

I don't want to see people from a long time ago because I haven't accomplished things that most of them have.

 

I don't want to see my friends because either they will condone some sort of behavior that I don't want to do, or they will expect me to screw up and I'll have a feeling of shame or worthlessness.

 

They're all moving and doing while I'm stagnant and full of anger and shame.

 

The realization definitely helped, but I'm still where I am and it really sucks. It's like this is never going to end.

 

THAT book I will definitely pick up. The other two would definitely be interesting and possibly helpful, but the two main issues I have are anger and shame.

 

I remember how furious I got with my ex because she did the same thing to me that the other girls did. I did so much for her (all of them really), so much in terms of healing her, from random flowers, to special days, to little picnics and nights out. Going to bookstores, cuddling, all kinds of stuff, staying strong for her, making her laugh, taking her for a horseback ride, spending time with her, calling her to make sure she was feeling okay, cooking dinner, etc etc. Stuff she never felt before and I knew she needed. She expressed to me in little ways how thankful she was for it. Despite that she had a problem. She wouldn't answer calls, would disappear for lengths of time, run away, leave out of nowhere from big plans. And when push came to shove and my feelings needed to be accomodated, she resisted and left. I remember just how badly I exploded on her. She took it in stride and calmed herself, she wanted to blow up right back during my explosion, but didn't because I think she knew that everyone had taken advantage of me up until that point. She wanted to be different but she knew she had a problem and didn't want to get exposed as a heavy drug abuser. She tried to ask me in different ways what my thoughts on drugs were, and I always had hateful or bad words for them. What drove me even more crazy was that it seemed like she might be self harming and possibly even cheating on me or sleeping with someone for drugs or who knows what. If it weren't for the drugs and the people that screwed her (or us for that matter), she would have been perfect for me and possibly me for her. But that wasn't the reality.

 

As time went on I recalled all my past hurt, all at once, and became so resentful of everything. Women, people, parents, friends, past, the list goes on and on. I just hated everyone and everything, yet still felt bad about her and sick, completely sick about what happened, and then my grandfathers on top of that.

 

I'm going to get over this because I don't want to get stuck, I do want to move forward, but I definitely want to get all the bits and pieces out of my system because I never had a chance to and no one ever listened to the details. Everyone I ever talked to just had holier than thou advice, when just an ear or a hug would have been amazing.

 

Anyway I saw her last year randomly out somewhere and she was with someone new, and they were all lovey dovey unlike me and her, but also seemingly really out of it. It felt like another kick to the balls on top of everything else. I can't be sure, but I never saw her like that while I was with her. If they are good for each other, fine I accept that but I think she's back on the bad stuff in a big way.

 

I guess what I'm getting at it, it feels like everything I've ever invested time and energy to goes to * * * * , and I just don't want to try anymore. And when I do, I'm expecting the worst, which comes out in anger, shame or resentment, and I end up with nothing good.

 

It sucks.

 

Thank you again for listening and writing

[doityourself]

Startin Over-

 

You have to get over these thoughts of people looking at you bad or like you did something wrong. You are living your life for you not them.

 

Go to the parties, everyone has bad days and you know what you should be proud that you can ask for help, most find that the hardest reaching out.

 

Understand that when people are addicted to drugs they are not themselves, she probably feels alot of guilt and hurt for the things that she did to you. Congradulations on keeping your head high enough to not fall in with her, thats huge, being able to resist esp when you want to please someone so much.

 

Oh man, I know the feeling when you just want everyone to shut up, how the heck do they know what will work for you. I also understand the ups and downs you are having with your emotions. Enjoy the ups they dont happen often enough and try not to let the downs get to bad.

 

Thank you for your nice words though, thats really appreciated and Im glad that Im able to say things that hit home with you. The best advice ever given to me is

 

Stop expecting the worse to happen, because if thats all you can see is bad your going to miss the good.

 

Sending hugs your way.

[turnera]

I realized I have 2 parties I can go to this weekend, and I don't want to go to any of them. But I don't feel like going to them because I know I will see people that saw me at my worst, and I don't want to face them.

So what if they saw you at your worst. Right now, you are at your BEST - you are fixing yourself. Be proud of that.

 

I've gotten better since then, but I messed up multiple times around them and their patience or appreciation for me is gone. Others care, but I feel like it might be better to avoid it all at this point.

I disagree. Consider it homework. Your mission is to BE around other people and focus on watching yourself interact with them. Analyze it. Look for improvements. Refine yourself.

 

I don't want to see people from a long time ago because I haven't accomplished things that most of them have.

Again, so what? Is this a race? Or are you just thinking they are thinking about you and judging you? Here's a big secret, one I used to tell DD19 all the time, as she was shy: You THINK they are all thinking about you, but guess what? They AREN'T! They're too busy thinking about THEMSELVES, and wondering if everyone else is thinking about THEM!

 

I don't want to see my friends because either they will condone some sort of behavior that I don't want to do, or they will expect me to screw up and I'll have a feeling of shame or worthlessness.

Again, so what? You don't have to participate in anything and it's good practice to learn to say no. And you can NOT screw up and prove them wrong, and then be PROUD of yourself!

 

They're all moving and doing while I'm stagnant and full of anger and shame.

Again, so what? And how do THEY know what you're thinking? They don't!

 

The realization definitely helped, but I'm still where I am and it really sucks. It's like this is never going to end.

Of course it will. Acceptance is the first step. You're already on the second one - repair.

 

I remember how furious I got with my ex because she did the same thing to me that the other girls did. I did so much for her (all of them really), ...

Stuff she never felt before and I knew she needed.

May I suggest that you were getting your self-worth by fixing someone else? Very common in your situation; with toxic shame, you ASSUME you are unfixable; no point dwelling on that; so you go out looking for someone else to fix, to give yourself a temporary pat on the back. My brother did that over and over, until he met a woman who liked him but wouldn't take crap from him; she didn't 'need' him. So he had to figure out who he was when he WASN'T fixing someone. Saved his life.

 

She expressed to me in little ways how thankful she was for it. Despite that she had a problem. She wouldn't answer calls, would disappear for lengths of time, run away, leave out of nowhere from big plans. And when push came to shove and my feelings needed to be accomodated, she resisted and left.

Because she was needier than you were. You were two dysfunctional people circling around each other in a death spiral. Time to find a healthy woman, ok?

 

She wanted to be different but she knew she had a problem and didn't want to get exposed as a heavy drug abuser.

And therefore, you couldn't believe a thing she said because her main goal in life was scoring the next hit; NOT you. Not ABOUT you.

 

If it weren't for the drugs and the people that screwed her (or us for that matter), she would have been perfect for me and possibly me for her. But that wasn't the reality.

I'll disagree, see note on neediness above.

 

As time went on I recalled all my past hurt, all at once, and became so resentful of everything. Women, people, parents, friends, past, the list goes on and on. I just hated everyone and everything, yet still felt bad about her and sick, completely sick about what happened, and then my grandfathers on top of that.

Which is what you HAVE to do, on your healing journey. Acceptance is the first step. Anger is usually the second. You're supposed to be angry. BUT...then you're supposed to grieve, and throw the anger away. Because you now have work to do.

 

Anyway I saw her last year randomly out somewhere and she was with someone new, and they were all lovey dovey unlike me and her, but also seemingly really out of it.

Because they were HIGH. Thank God that wasn't you!

 

And when I do, I'm expecting the worst, which comes out in anger, shame or resentment, and I end up with nothing good.

Which means that you are progressing! You're not supposed to end up with good at that point, because you're supposed to grieving and angry. BUT...then you move on to the next step.

 

I had a really sucky dad. He would pick me up for my weekly visitation, and we would do one of two things: Sit at the mall with a Coke and watch the people go by - the cheapest way he could spend time with me - or take me to his current girlfriend's house so I could babysit her kids while they either went out or went to her bedroom. Then he married the Evil Stepmother who practically ruined my life, my husband's life; and defended her to his deathbed. Was I upset that I didn't get the dad I wanted? Definitely. But I'm too stubborn to let a crappy beginning determine my end. He sucked. So what? HE doesn't determine ME.

 

Your parents don't, either. Nor do your ex girlfriends, user friends, family members, bosses...NONE of those people have any power over who you are or who you become. It all comes from within YOU.

 

Time for you to hit that milestone, my friend.

 

Are you ready to throw your past away and look for the better future?

[turnera]

You know what? Go out and get Healing The Shame, today. Spend the weekend reading it. It'll be a real eye-opener about you and your toxic shame.

[startinover]

borders online is listing it at a local store. Going right after work

[startinover]

This book is mindblowing so far. I mean, I've read so much about neediness, codependency, abandonment, abuse, violence, anger, unmet needs, addiction and all that stuff. I've learned a lot and put a lot of things together myself but man, there's a whole new level here and I'm not even 20% into it

[turnera]

Yeah, I had people over at link removed tell me for a couple years to read it, because it fit me so well, too, and I never did. When I finally did, I had the exact same reaction.

[startinover]

Real quick point. My first relationship was a pretty good model. I was able to be me and she was able to be herself. She was needy, but it just worked. It wasn't until later that things went sour as I mentioned. The second one was a mess because I had started to become a mess. The third one, yes there was tons of insanity. Sure, I wanted a pat on the back for helping her. But I knew it wasn't healthy the whole time I was in it. Why did I do what I did? I saw a sweetheart who was hurting like hell and living life all wrong. Of course I was hoping it was a "just needs time" thing, I cared about her and knew her back when she was way more normal. I agree that at that time she was just looking for her next hit. Sad, but not my choice to make I guess.

 

Anyway, after reading this book for awhile, I've noticed something. When I was in that first relationship, I felt right. Homebase was outside of my unhealthy family dynamic and we just clicked. Whenever I went back to single, family was all I had. Even other dysfunctional relationships were still better than my unhealthy family dynamic. Once the relationship disappeared, it was back to silently judging myself and being judged by my achievements, by my family because I had no power or voice in the family. According to my father specifically, I am useless without achievements, and his needs were always far far far beyond anyone in our family's needs. I guess that's why I was always so incredibly needy about meeting women, and why I put so much energy into meeting a good woman. My heart body and soul were literally screaming "Save me from my crazy family!!!"

 

The crazy part was that if I knew all of this way back when, I would have fixed it years and years ago. The other crazy part is that I didn't have a chance in hell. None of this was my fault. Good lord how many years lost and wasted on "doing it wrong".

 

Another crazy part is that in my heart I DID know some of this back then. Everytime things got tough, something about what they were saying and doing felt off and wrong. I'd open my mouth, try to look for someone to tell me I was right, that it wasn't me that was crazy. I tried to look for approval outside of my father. But everyone I asked made me feel like I was completely wrong. My mother, my sister, grandmother, grandfather. They told me he loved me and I should listen everytime I tried to turn it around. My listening and caring was betraying me this whole time. How many times I knew I was sick, hurting, struggling, and needed help. How many times I wasn't accounted for or listened to. My body knew it, but I was trained otherwise. My god!

 

The other thing is I see the other side too. My father didn't have a chance either and he's OVER SIXTY NOW. I don't blame him anymore although I'll probably continue to get furious at him lol ;-)

 

He used to get his ass kicked too. And his love was built through achievements as well. It's starting to all make sense.

 

Still got plenty to read. This is fascinating lol.

[startinover]

I feel so much stress and pressure just unraveling and going away. I haven't felt this relaxed in god knows how long. We're all watching the argentina germany game right now, then I'm going for a jog, and I'm going to both parties today and the beach tomorrow. I feel so good. I know I have plenty to do going forward but I feel so much better. I don't know how to thank you for all this. Thank you sooooo much

[turnera]

Yay! So much progress!

 

Something to consider:

his needs were always far far far beyond anyone in our family's needs. I guess that's why I was always so incredibly needy about meeting women, and why I put so much energy into meeting a good woman. My heart body and soul were literally screaming "Save me from my crazy family!!!"

 

We always repeat how our parents are, unless we learn how to change. You can change being the needy man like him.

 

Another thing that jumps out at me: Your dad is in pain, too. He is old school, never learned to deal with it, but he tried to help you by teaching you what he thought would help him - accomplishing things. Whenever I or my husband are stressed, or fight, we WORK. Fix things. Finish something. It's a mental thing. Anyway, I do feel some form of pity for your dad; he seems incredibly miserable.

[doityourself]

We always repeat how our parents are, unless we learn how to change.

 

This has been one of my biggest hurdles in life, is to make sure I stop the cycle of drug, mental, physical abuse that has been haunting my family for decades.

 

Now I hug my kids, I kiss them good night. I take them places and spend time with them, every single day. I feel this overwhelming feeling of happiness that brings tears to my eyes when they smile, or come up and give me a hug out of nowhere. Its what keeps me going.

 

I wish you luck