How to let go of the emotions when it comes to signing a *prenup*???

[Espi]

This is a really disappointing view and really saddened me that you actually think this.

 

Now I don't even want to get married.

 

Respectfully: I'm sorry that you feel dissapointed, but please don't get upset! Take and leave whatever you'd like from my opinion. It's your life...however, it's high time that men opened their eyes to the truth around here.

 

I know that my perspective on marraige isn't very romantic, but, from a male perspective, one of the WORST things--financially and biologically--that a man will ever do is get married. Most men stupidly jump into the deep end of the pool without even considering the lifelong consequences...it's the same stupid impulse that makes them drink too much, etc. A man should think long and carefully before he even considers marraige.

 

As already mentioned somewhere in this thread: you wear a seatbelt to help ensure your survival.

 

If you think it's OK for men to risk losing their home, income, etc., then by all means, get married. But you should also know that 50% of marraiges end in divorce (the rate is even higher in some major US metropolitan areas).

 

I'm not into making risky investments. I DO, however, like money, so I plan to keep every single penny that I've worked so hard for...I'm not interested in sharing my money or assets with anyone...and, I'm not looking for a financial partner...I already have one...her name is "THE IRS."

 

Also, I don't think that the majority of men are able to live up to the solemn oath of marraige. Yes, the problem with marraige is that one of the persons getting married is a man--he'll eventually want access to other females. Most men will lie about wanting to have sex with multiple partners...I won't. I believe that a man's prime directive is to sex. We ejaculate billions of sperm every time we cum; women carry a few eggs...that's it. Sorry, but those billions ofsperm that we ejaculate aren't all for one woman...

 

And, if he's married and (likely) strays, he's usually gonna pay dearly for it. By law, if he's found guilty of infidelity, his ex-wife is entitled to his money! She can divorce him AND deduct up to 50% of his pre-tax earnings...and she'll continue making the money that she's earning from her career.

 

My advice to ALL men is don't get married...not now, not ever!

 

Because the single greatest factor for divorce...is marraige! LOL

 

But each person has his own choice.

 

However, since you're a woman, my advice for you is to marry...and as many times as possible! Because every time you get divorced, you're gonna get paid for it.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I'm a woman. And your post was very offensive to both men and women.

 

Most women are not golddiggers. And most men are loyal and will not stray.

[Espi]

I responded to your post in bold.

[1guygirl]

This is the trouble with playing house

 

If I got engaged to a man and he wanted me to sell my home so we could buy together, I would understand the proposition. If my bf asked me to live with him and he told me to sell my home so we could buy together, I would probably spit up my tea with laughter.

 

Living together is not a lifelong committment. It is living together. I would go to the ends of the earth to advise young people not to buy a home with someone they are not marrying ... because THAT gets ugly if/when there is a breakup. In someways, buying a home together is more of a commitment than marriage.

 

but sometimes peeps commit without the LEGAL marriage (legal is different to lawful) and for many marriage isnt what people want.

 

It all depends on what and where the OP and her bf see this going/leading to. Is it always going to be a case of her living and effectively renting in her bfs house?? orrr have they discussed that this will be for say a period of 2 years before they move into a house together, a fresh?

 

i am just trying to give the OP another spin on things to protect herself without it ruining her bf in the process should they split, because if this is long term, then one day she may just find herself out of a home, while hes had a good few grand paid off his mortgage and also some extra disposable cash to play around with and have a good time on thanks to his gf paying half his mortgage off every month. Now I am all for pitching in, being equals, but it seems this bf has really thought about his own back, and instead of just asking her to go halves, and have an understanding that they would just go separate ways fairly, its there, in black and white signed by lawyers and to me, well...its TOO MUCH LIKE BUSINESS....rather like when Julia Roberts signed a deal with richard gere in Pretty Woman, you effectively become 'property' 'capitol' and not a loving significant other.

 

another way she could tackle this, is instead of helping him pay off his mortgage is that she pays the majority of living expenses instead...jus a thought

 

and another thought to consider is that all mortgages are the biggest scam ever, they are not your homes until you pay the last dime off, you are still classed as tenants (to the mortgage lenders, as they are the true owners) so you pay over the odds on a house, many times more expensive than renting, pay it all off, then when youre old (this happens in uk) you are forced to sell your house to pay for your care. if you died in a nursing home just 3 weeks after moving in, and sold your house, the remaining money from sale of house, would go straight into the government pot and nothing to the children. Robbery.

 

also the post about women getting married to fleece men, what a misogynist view and it wasnt really complimentary about men either. as another poster said, its quite offensive made worse for the heavy sarcasm in it.

[Hermes]

Just to try to be the devil's advocate here, and NOT agreeing perhaps with all that Espi says in his post. Often the truth is unpalatable. But it is true that the law is the law. and Espi is I think correct in saying that the main reason for many divorces is infidelity of one of the spouses.

Having said that I don't think that anyone, (or very very few) would embark on marriage with the idea of "making the other pay at the end of the day". But life being life, and people being what they are, things all too often turn out differently. What started out as wine and roses can turn into a vinegary, bitter confrontation where, let us face it, severe financial loss can occur.

 

Where the husband has "strayed" and I have to agree with Espi, this is far far more common than people are prepared to admit, then the wife who is (understandably) in great pain and anger, will go after the offending party.

IMO it is important to face reality, the reality of life, even if we might not like what we hear. Maybe Espi might have couched his message in different terms, I agree.

 

I think I once said in another thread that I know some wives who say: "Oh, my Tom/Jim/Henry would NEVER do that", (cheat) when I know for a fact that ole Tom/Jim//Henry are doing PRECISELY that. And the odd thing often is that ole Jim or Tom would never even strike you as the type who would "stray".

 

I think it is vitally important to be realistic.

 

H

[Espi]

also the post about women getting married to fleece men, what a misogynist view and it wasnt really complimentary about men either. as another poster said, its quite offensive made worse for the heavy sarcasm in it.

 

1guygirl:

 

Although I do believe that many women marry men whom they consider to be good providers (i.e. make money), I've never written that women marry just so that they can fleece men...my point, respectfully, is that MOST women WILL sue the men who cheat on them. It's the law in many states. A woman can actually say, "He's cheating on me, so I want to take 50% of his PRE-TAX (!) earnings." She is bitter and enraged, so she sues him. Happens all the time...well, maybe not ALL the time...just 50% of the time. 1 out of 2 times.

 

I'm not sure how to dispel any myths that you maintain about men being loyal. Most men are NOT monogamous; we want access to other females. Don't worry: I've spoken to all men, and they told me so! (JUST KIDDING!)

 

Seriously, though: Men are biologically driven to have sex with as many females as possible. It's not an attack against men! We are full of testosterone...we want to sleep with as many women as we can.

 

Harsh notion? Well, get ready, because here's one more:

 

Unless we're having sex with you women, we men don't need you...whether we're making money, building skyscrapers, or even plotting war, all you women do is get in the way.

 

Remember--you women want the truth! If you are offended by my opinions, just ask the guy sitting next to you if what I say is true.

 

In my opinion: very few men can honor the marraige oath. So, given my examples above, why on earth would a man want to marry?

 

A man should not marry...not now, not ever. Before he enters a relationship with her, he should be 100% up front...he should tell the woman EVERYTHING up front...100% full disclosure...and BOTH man and woman should ask the tough questions BEFORE (god forbid) entering marraige or (better yet) signing a co-hab agreement:

 

1. "If I want access to other females, and the relationship ends, would you expect anything from me?"

2. "I'd prefer to keep my mortgage in my name."

3. "I like to be finanacially independent. How do you feel about that?"

 

Point is: Tell her EVERYTHING...and then sign a co-hab agreement so that your reltionship is DEFINED.

 

I stand behind my words; they're true.

 

OK, send hate mail to ____________.

[nutz76]

If you think prenups are unromantic then don't get one of those icky unromantic marriage licenses either. Who needs it?! Get married for love and just make it off the books out of the courts' eyes and have it just be between the two of you. In other words just have a non-legally binding ceremony that's only about the love you share and nothing more.

 

 

Somehow I doubt too many women jumping on board for such an idea.

[tattoobunnie]

If you think prenups are unromantic then don't get one of those icky unromantic marriage licenses either. Who needs it?! Get married for love and just make it off the books out of the courts' eyes and have it just be between the two of you. In other words just have a non-legally binding ceremony that's only about the love you share and nothing more.

 

 

Somehow I doubt too many women jumping on board for such an idea.

 

A marriage license connotes a union. A pre-nup connotes a break. So of course, why would anyone jump for joy with a pre-nup. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a pre-nups if the couple truly both has assets to protect, home purchases, property, savings accounts. And if it's like Ikea furniture, they it is rather pointless to have one. I also think, if a couple is willing to compromise, plans for marriage are probably slim to none. I think if a person is uncomfortable in signing one, then don't move in.

[tattoobunnie]

I mean compromise on getting one...

[Espi]

just have a non-legally binding ceremony that's only about the love you share and nothing more.

 

Great idea, but many states make that impossible. Check the laws of your state...chances are, if you live together a day over 2 years, the state WILL consider you MARRIED, i.e. you're legally binded to her. If you live with her for 2 years and one day and then leave her, she can legally pursue assets. And the courts, of course, are stacked in the woman's favor...remember that a judge has to go home to a wife.

 

The only way to get around the legal binding is to sign a co-hab agreement.

 

Also, AGAIN: a pre-nup is NOT the same as a co-hab agreement!!! It's important--especially for men who want to protect their assets--to know the difference. "Nup" assumes you're gonna get married...thus, a pre-nup protects assets only PRIOR TO the marraige...any divorce lawyer can override a pre-nup!

[1guygirl]

mabes us women should jus leave you guys to it then...stay single ey ladies...we have the truth spoken above

[Hermes]

Before he enters a relationship with her, he should be 100% up front...he should tell the woman EVERYTHING up front...100% full disclosure...and BOTH man and woman should ask the tough questions BEFORE

 

I have to agree that the tough questions need to be asked beforehand. It is a sensible view. Oh sure, many will say "where is the ROMANCE in all that?"

Doing things in a romantic haze is the downfall of many. It i sensible to make arrangements.

 

H

[nutz76]

A marriage license connotes a union. A pre-nup connotes a break. So of course, why would anyone jump for joy with a pre-nup. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a pre-nups if the couple truly both has assets to protect, home purchases, property, savings accounts. And if it's like Ikea furniture, they it is rather pointless to have one. I also think, if a couple is willing to compromise, plans for marriage are probably slim to none. I think if a person is uncomfortable in signing one, then don't move in.

 

That's a faulty assumption (logical fallacy) and is a major problem with how people react to prenups. The fact of the matter is prenups don't presume the failure of a marriage any more than a seatbelt presumes you will crash your car or that homeowners insurance presumes your house will burn down one day. It's something you get to protect yourself in the event the unthinkable happens so you're covered.

 

A much higher ratio of people get divorced than the percentage of drivers who have accidents, but you don't see an emotional reaction to having to carry car insurance or wearing a seatbelt now do you? A good way of looking at it is to think of prenups as loose form of marriage insurance.

[Espi]

The fact of the matter is prenups don't presume the failure of a marriage any more than a seatbelt presumes you will crash your car or that homeowners insurance presumes your house will burn down one day. It's something you get to protect yourself in the event the unthinkable happens so you're covered.

 

Very good analogies.

 

Men should definitely take every precaution to protect what is theirs...it's just common sense.

 

You can see how a commonsensical approach to relationships often goes against the grain of so-called "romantic" notions...but romance is largely a feminine ideal...not so much a male ideal. We buy her flowers, gifts, etc. and in return,hopefully, she'll give us sex.

 

The romantic custom of men blindly diving into a life-long relationship without fully disclosing the terms, etc., can indeed be very costly for men. Men just need to think long and hard about how they should protect themselves when relationships end. If a woman truly loves her man, she shouldn'tmind those questions!

 

For men, a lot of our societal mores and customs can be very expensive. During the dating phase, you have to buy her food and gifts before there's any talk of lovemaking...and then it continues from there...in marraige, the man is expected to "keep" her--for richer or poorer, sickness and in health.

 

Before marraige, the man yearns for the woman...after marraige, the "y" becomes silent (JUST A JOKE!!!)

 

Now do you see why husbands typically die off before their wives? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO! (AGAIN...JUST KIDDING!!!!)

 

Oh I'm gonna get so much hate mail!

[Hermes]

Yes, Nutz. It IS common sense.

 

The fact of the matter is prenups don't presume the failure of a marriage any more than a seatbelt presumes you will crash your car or that homeowners insurance presumes your house will burn down one day. It's something you get to protect yourself in the event the unthinkable happens

 

H

[Ms Darcy]

The fundamental problem with her not "paying off his mortgage" is that she is getting a place to live. She should pay for that. I have a home and I have two tenants. My tenants pay to live there, even though they are my friends. It doesn't matter if he's getting payment on his mortgage ... she's getting a place to live. That's the crux of how renting works.

 

If they decide to commit, and they don't want marriage, they need some sort of legal document to stipulate that. Then they can go off and buy their own home. But until they commit, if she moves into his home, she needs to pay for her housing ... because housing is a living expense. In the end, it doesn't matter is she pays for food and utilities and other stuff, because really it's all going to the "living expense" pot and she's paying for part of the mortgage anyway.

[Espi]

I applaud women like you...this is EXACTLY how I see it...

 

Women expect (and should have) equal access to financial power, but too many women don't want to share in the responsbility in order to obtain such power.

 

If you rent an apartment from me, great! But tenants should not expect to own the place just for paying into it...I paid for the property...it's MINE...I worked hard for it. So NOBODY has the right to take what's mine!!!